Imagine everyone have 100% TT returns, would the game survive?

You cant get 100% for everybody and still give 50-300k for some lucky player.

ofc you can... base tt-return 95%.. if he spends 200 PED per hour, that's 10 PED missing per hour. after 5-30k hours he can get the 50-300k hof ^^ or if he's very lucky, he gets it very early on and will have only 95% tt-return for the next 5-30k hours ^^

you're making the mistake to assume that somebody else with need to have <100% tt-return for such big ones to happen, that's just not true.
 
ofc you can... base tt-return 95%.. if he spends 200 PED per hour, that's 10 PED missing per hour. after 5-30k hours he can get the 50-300k hof ^^

Sounds like the current loot system.

you're making the mistake to assume that somebody else with need to have <100% tt-return for such big ones to happen, that's just not true.

Its not "you can win something big", its personal loot pool for everybody and "you can win back your own ped if you keep playing long enough", so after peoples get bored, they have to play for months or years more to win back for 100% and leave.
 
Sounds like the current loot system.



Its not "you can win something big", its personal loot pool for everybody and "you can win back your own ped if you keep playing long enough", so after peoples get bored, they have to play for months or years more to win back for 100% and leave.

and if it works in the current system, why should it not work with higher returns?
nothing wrong with the personal loot pool, if this game would be pure RNG and gambling, that could be davastating for MA. They definately need to keep the peds handed out/taken away in check.
 
Where in the AMA exactly are you reading that?!?....

Hello,

I would like to use this opportunity to ask you to please tell us, if it's possible, about the destination of the funds resulted from players cost (TT) associated with tiering equipment, galactica mission, auction fees etc.
Are they going to CLD revenue, are they returning to the loot pool or are they company's profit?

It would be really great to end some myths regarding this topic. It's also a frequent question amongst younger players and we're unable to give a clear response, only what we believe, what the common sense and logic dictates. It would be great to have any type of statement in regards to this.

Magnus Eriksson:

All of the activities you mention would contribute to CLD revenue, assuming those activities took place on Planet Calypso or were performed by Calypso-tagged participants elsewhere in the universe.

Obviously bank fees don't go back in the loot pool, doh, I was referring to the decay, tier cost tt (before update), TT input in missions (galactica for example), auction fees, these are the major ones, but tiering system changed and now you get the tt back.

edit: in the CLD I ment, not the actual loot. sorry for the confusion, but that was the AMA clarification.


As for the increased loot in hunting yeah, that is normal, but in hunting you need looter profession and also a lot of gear (and skill to use it). Can't do 98% in crafting and mining, it's just not possible. It would break the balance of the game, people would at first turn to these professions leaving the main one out. Maybe some are fine to tt what they craft but that's not healthy for the game. If everyone would turn to craft and mine, then it would all crash as the final products would have no use without hunters :D
I'm seeing a LOT of hunters that turned to full time crafting, increased loot in hunting post 2.0 must not be that good alone.
 
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ofc you can... base tt-return 95%.. if he spends 200 PED per hour, that's 10 PED missing per hour. after 5-30k hours he can get the 50-300k hof ^^

you're making the mistake to assume that somebody else with need to have <100% tt-return for such big ones to happen, that's just not true.

Hmm, 1000 hours to get a 10K hof, thats 125 days of 8hours or 250 days of 4 hours, etc.....
But then they wouldn't have you wait a full 30k hours to get a 300k hof, they would instead set it up as you have an individual pool where it adds to it overtime and pulls out of it at random times. So you would be getting 95% return and then bam, a 500ped hof. 5 hours later, a 50ped global. But wait it didn't pull all those peds sitting in the pool as it is slowly building up to a big one.

Your return is still not 100%, and you are still get global's and hof's and by the time they need to pay out the big hof the person is probably left the game because the 100% returns that was promised was a lie. Not to mention you jump onto the forums to complain about loot returns.

Just keep shooting they said, your time will come the reply's say....but it never does.
Why does this sound familiar?!?!? :eyecrazy:

Might as well just say you get on average 95% return in game and the chance to get a hof.
 
or if he's very lucky, he gets it very early on and will have only 95% tt-return for the next 5-30k hours ^^

If i get it early, than withdraw, and leave.
Where from that missing 50-300k will be restored in the loot pool, while everybody else still receive 100% return too?

Make it not possible to withdraw?
Than its not really looted, just loaned.
If i loot it early, and than stop hunting for 3 years, where from that missing 50-300k will be restored in the loot pool to give back to others the 100% too?
Or if i loot a big one early, i will be forced to keep hunting 5-10 hours daily to pay back the early hof?


100% return is possible, with personal loot pool, and you win back your own ped only, but not in advance.
But than, its no "big loot's" anymore, its just your own money.

Also, have no idea where from the CLD payout will come from, if everybody get 100% back.
 
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As for the increased loot in hunting yeah, that is normal, but in hunting you need looter profession and also a lot of gear (and skill to use it). Can't do 98% in crafting and mining, it's just not possible. It would break the balance of the game, people would at first turn to these professions leaving the main one out. Maybe some are fine to tt what they craft but that's not healthy for the game. If everyone would turn to craft and mine, then it would all crash as the final products would have no use without hunters :D
I'm seeing a LOT of hunters that turned to full time crafting, increased loot in hunting post 2.0 must not be that good alone.

why would everyone turn to crafting then? does everyone suddenly like to stand afk in front of the crafting machine? Back when hunting/mining/crafting had the same returns people scattered across those professions and even now with hunting having much higher return than mining/crafting there's still a lot of miners/crafters. So your claim is just false. everyone switching to mining/crafting simply won't happen.


Hmm, 1000 hours to get a 10K hof, thats 125 days of 8hours or 250 days of 4 hours, etc.....
But then they wouldn't have you wait a full 30k hours to get a 300k hof, they would instead set it up as you have an individual pool where it adds to it overtime and pulls out of it at random times. So you would be getting 95% return and then bam, a 500ped hof. 5 hours later, a 50ped global. But wait it didn't pull all those peds sitting in the pool as it is slowly building up to a big one.

Your return is still not 100%, and you are still get global's and hof's and by the time they need to pay out the big hof the person is probably left the game because the 100% returns that was promised was a lie. Not to mention you jump onto the forums to complain about loot returns.

just like their current return promises (97+% on hunting, 95% on crafting/mining) are a lie? Why is that not a problem now but will be a problem then? :D
 
why would everyone turn to crafting then? does everyone suddenly like to stand afk in front of the crafting machine? Back when hunting/mining/crafting had the same returns people scattered across those professions and even now with hunting having much higher return than mining/crafting there's still a lot of miners/crafters. So your claim is just false. everyone switching to mining/crafting simply won't happen.

Well not EVERYONE but many, enough to fuck with the balance of the ecosystem. There are a lot of people playing for profit and with 97-98% in crafting and mining it would mean, in the beginning, just too much profit to stay in hunting. 97-98 would turn most mining resources into 100-101% and crafting would collapse, the demand would decrease while the offer would greatly increase. I'd stay afk in from of the craft machine for a good profit.
97-98 in crafting and mining is just plain ridiculous and it will never happen.
 
Well not EVERYONE but many, enough to fuck with the balance of the ecosystem.

is it really because it has higher return in general, or is it because you can get to that return a lot faster on hunting than you can get there with crafting/mining?
I'm switching from crafting/mining to hunting for the latter reason... 400k clicks to get the jump from 90 to 95% return on crafting and over 100k mining bombs with 86%, and still no idea how many more it will take to get above 90%, is just too fucking long.... compare the time amount it takes on those 2 profession to the 400-500 kills it takes on hunting...
 
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oh you would? i did get mine early, i'm still around.

Answer the question, where from that missing ped would be restored than in your loot system?

Well, CLD is easy, no profit from activity from Caly, so not a single pec payout, solved.
 
Answer the question, where from that missing ped would be restored than in your loot system?

Well, CLD is easy, no profit from activity from Caly, so not a single pec payout, solved.

sure, CLD is easy and if you're fine with low profit, although there's still a risk of getting losses from CLD when the price drops.
 
There are a lot of people playing for profit and with 97-98% in crafting and mining it would mean, in the beginning, just too much profit to stay in hunting. 97-98 would turn most mining resources into 100-101% and crafting would collapse, the demand would decrease while the offer would greatly increase. I'd stay afk in from of the craft machine for a good profit.
97-98 in crafting and mining is just plain ridiculous and it will never happen.

you're having a major critical flaw in your assumption... you're doing that based on the current MUs. If almost everyone abandons hunting and switches to crafting, then the hunting MU will go up (lots of profits to be made there) and crafting MUs will go down (only losses there)...

this market mechanism alone prevents your non-sense to happen.
 
sure, CLD is easy and if you're fine with low profit, although there's still a risk of getting losses from CLD when the price drops.

So it seems you have no idea where from they could restore the early hof's players may would withdraw.

Maybe they could ask players to use the sleip's for a bit more in the next week, so they could use the extra oil consumption to restore that 200k ped.
0.5 oil / min, that is 0.01p / min, with 10k players, that is 100p / min.
So we just have to ask 10k player to use the sleip for 5 hour's / day for a week, and solved.

Ok, now im too think 100% return and early ATH's are possible.
 
So it seems you have no idea where from they could restore the early hof's players may would withdraw.

but is that realistically even happening or are players just going to be happy to have a decent chunk of starting peds? :D

no point in arguing with stuff that won't happen. and even if 1 player per year should do that, that's so small that it can be neglected...
 
Agree, no point of this whole thread.

i disagree, higher TT-return or even 100% can happen. We saw the higher return happening already on hunting and when some of the non-sib bps got turned into SIB ones.
 
All of those income's are ingame income's only.

They cant pay their cost's with ped earned ingame by AH transactions and oil consume.

What are you talking about? You have no idea how game works.

By making sure that there are multiple ways of "evaporate" PED from game, they make sure that sooner or later someone will depo! Is that so hard to understand?

Ever did an upgrade to a item?
Ever participated on a player event?
Ever sold anything on auction?
Ever sold shares?
(check main post for more)

If so you are helping to remove PED from game. And that's all that matter, the more you remove the less Mindark have to payout!

The 100% tt return was a bit extreme but was only to demonstrate that even with close to 100% tt returns, having so many mechanisms to evaporate PED from game, after some time there would be no PED ingame and someone will need to deposit again.

They really make money when we deposit period. They could give us 200% tt returns, yet if we did never withdrawal, they would still technically making money because in game it's all bits and bites, what really matter, the real money, is on a bank account or invested in any crazy side project
 
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What are you talking about? You have no idea how game works.

By making sure that there are multiple ways of "evaporate" PED from game, they make sure that sooner or later someone will depo! Is that so hard to understand?

Ever did an upgrade to a item?
Ever participated on a player event?
Ever sold anything on auction?
Ever sold shares?
(check main post for more)

If so you are helping to remove PED from game. And that's all that matter, the more you remove the less Mindark have to payout!

Shrapnel
Boosted bp
Oil ring.

Ped not just evaporate, there is other side too you may forgot about.

EL this week 4.9m ped hunting globals.
How much would be the whole cycle including every loot, not just the globals?
15 million? 25 million? 50 million ped?
How much is shrapnel from that, 50%? 66%? more?
25 million total cycle with 50% shrapnel converted is 125.000 ped back to the game.
You still sure they earn tons of money on evaporated ped?


As i remember there is much much more ped in the game, than money in their account.
So they already just can hope the income wont be less than the withdrawals.
As i remember, they used to tell, it not happend before, why would people start to do that?

In top of that, remove the biggest cash income they have, the tt loss from players to be needed to deposit again and again, while they still paying out the withdrawals, wages and other cost's, while as a company, the owners still want to earn some money i guess, would end up in bankruptcy very fast.

Hard to belive you cant understand that.



But let see it from an other view.
From 2019 annual report: you get an operating profit of plus 8.1 million SEK, i.e. Entropia Universe is a profitable product

8.1 million SEK is about 868.000 usd profit for the year.
8.680.000 ped, hope not lost you yet, it was the easier part.
Weekly ~167.000 ped weekly profit.

add up EL weekly hunting, mining, crafting globals.
8.302.000 ped, yeah, i know, its very far from total cycle, but even if the globals would be 2% higher for this week, that is 166.000 ped extra, would take their whole weekly profit.
And just the globals was 2% higher, not the whole cycle.
Would be enough for 100% return for everybody?

Return is already close to 100%, CLD removed what we pays, and the rest are just not distributed equally, some get more, the rest will missing what CLD and the profiting one's got.
 
EL this week 4.9m ped hunting globals.
How much would be the whole cycle including every loot, not just the globals?
15 million? 25 million? 50 million ped?
How much is shrapnel from that, 50%? 66%? more?
25 million total cycle with 50% shrapnel converted is 125.000 ped back to the game.
You still sure they earn tons of money on evaporated ped?

i may not have much faith into MA, but i have enough faith that will be able to change the shrapnell:uni ammo ration from 100:101 to 100:100

Return is already close to 100%,

it's not even close too 100%...

8.1 million SEK is about 868.000 usd profit for the year.
8.680.000 ped, hope not lost you yet, it was the easier part.
Weekly ~167.000 ped weekly profit.

and how much more would that have been, if they hadn't wasted so much money into failed side projects?
 
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just like their current return promises (97+% on hunting, 95% on crafting/mining) are a lie? Why is that not a problem now but will be a problem then? :D

MA current returns do not promise 97%+ on hunting nor 95% on crafting/mining...please quote where you got this info from? They have stated in the past that people hunting under the new 2.0 system enjoyed 95% returns on average...which is also not a guarantee as its an average, not a promise. MA have never come out and said we guarantee you 95/97/100% etc returns.

My main point that you seemed to miss was that you are saying you want 100% tt return, then you propose a system that could essentially look exactly the same as it does right now.....but you would be okay with that because MA can say you will get 100% tt returns?? In reality you will never get the 100% returns, but the system would be coded so that theoritically you could. They could then just code a few lucky people to get the big payouts to entice others...just like they used to do with those newbie hofs (where you never heard from those players again).

So we would just go around in circles and you would leave the game (aftyer making a ton more posts about your returns), making the rest of the playerbase suffer. No thanks.
 
i may not have much faith into MA, but i have enough faith that will be able to change the shrapnell:uni ammo ration from 100:101 to 100:100

It is works like this currently, so all the evaporated ped you and Fannan talking about for now, is going back to the game by shrapnel currently.

and how much more would that have been, if they hadn't wasted so much money into failed side projects?

Check the annual report, this was their profit from Entropia only, side project loss removed from this 8.1m SEK profit, thats why they ended up with loss last year.
Sure, they already have loss at the end, and you still imagine they cut all their income and keep able to running the game :D

it's not even close too 100%...

8.300.000 this week, how much is the total cycle if 8.300.000 is the ammount of globals?
40 million, 80 million?
They earn 166.000 on 40 million cycle?
That is 0.415%, same goes for CLD, so return is like 99.17% than.
But if total cycle is 80 million, than its 99.58%


But guess this time you will answer something like "they lie about their profit, they earn 100x more".

So it is written here why this is a wrong idea that cant work, you can keep dreaming and ignoring the numbers, but wont happen because this would result in bankrupcy in no time.

I wasted enough time for you, GL and have fun.
 
MA current returns do not promise 97%+ on hunting nor 95% on crafting/mining...please quote where you got this info from? They have stated in the past that people hunting under the new 2.0 system enjoyed 95% returns on average...which is also not a guarantee as its an average, not a promise. MA have never come out and said we guarantee you 95/97/100% etc returns.

Yeah, i'd like to know as well where they promised anything like that, you claimed they would promise 100% TT-return when they go for 100% TT-return.

just as a reminder what you said 2 pages ago:
Your return is still not 100%, and you are still get global's and hof's and by the time they need to pay out the big hof the person is probably left the game because the 100% returns that was promised was a lie. Not to mention you jump onto the forums to complain about loot returns.

it's just not fair if 2 people do exactly the same and one gets only 90% TT-return and the other 95%, the 90% TT-return will just not be able to compete in sales MU, not because he would suck, but because the game gives unfair results... but you don't care about fairness anyway.
 
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Sure, they already have loss at the end, and you still imagine they cut all their income and keep able to running the game :D

is it so hard for you to get, if they up the TT-return they may have same or higher income and the players will get more play for their buck?
 
if they up the TT-return they may have same or higher income

Pointless discussion... There are so many variables that it's impossible for any of the players to make such a claim...

The % of the playerbase that keeps high levels of activity and does any tracking is very small so most would probably not even notice a ~2% increase in loot. Players would however notice more markup, good content, stable servers, improved communications :)laugh:). Now THAT is where improvement is needed in order to increase everyone's income.



edit: to be sure there is no confusion, absolutely everyone would like more tt return, but it is really a pointless war to fight and it's not a bug.
 
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Now THAT is where improvement is needed in order to increase everyone's income.

You cannot increase everyone's income, this is mathematically impossible. Since you can only ever make money from other players, there can forever only be a portion of the playerbase who will manage to profit off the rest. If it was (or still is) possible to draw money out of the system itself, it is a design flaw which eventually is to be corrected. In light of this, income of the producing faction is increased when features appear in the game which are desired by many who would pay for it. The mindless, habitual grinder has little chance to benefit from this, strikes of luck notwithstanding. (They might be willing to pay for other goals like skills or the experience itself, and do so consciously.) This is entirely by design which renders this recurring discussion pointless. Some just refuse to get acquainted with basic tenets. (I assume you had all this in mind, just clarifying for the public.)
 
Pointless discussion... There are so many variables that it's impossible for any of the players to make such a claim...

The % of the playerbase that keeps high levels of activity and does any tracking is very small so most would probably not even notice a ~2% increase in loot. Players would however notice more markup, good content, stable servers, improved communications :)laugh:). Now THAT is where improvement is needed in order to increase everyone's income.



edit: to be sure there is no confusion, absolutely everyone would like more tt return, but it is really a pointless war to fight and it's not a bug.

you really grasp for every straw to prevent the game being improved and made cheaper for the players, don't you?:rolleyes:

Anyway, mix the 2 extra % with not taking years to get there anymore, then many players will notice a significant improvement.

Do you honestly think having players save 7-15k PED per 100k PED cycle wouldn't be good for the game and the economy? if yes, then i don't even...

Players saving 7-15k PED per 100k PED cycle would have a way larger impact than improved server, communication, content combined, a byproduct of that would be higher MUs btw.
 
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you really grasp for every straw to prevent the game being improved and made cheaper for the players, don't you?:rolleyes:

ill just leave this here for you.

mine is still $-9.16/month over the past 5 years, but that's mainly due to the time prior to 2.0.
Since 2.0 it's $2.92/month and that only because i stoped depoing and shut down almost all crafting, otherwise it would have been a lot more.

im not a forum guru so I don't know how to link your post, therefore I can only copy paste it. I enjoy playing the game more then playing the forum.

maybe MA should just pay you to play the game so you can complain they only give you 100ped per month, and that's not enough to survive...……..
 
you really grasp for every straw to prevent the game being improved and made cheaper for the players, don't you?:rolleyes:

On the contrary. I'm advocating for always sticking to MU in this game. Fighting a %return war with MA is a lost war before it started. You can do minor tweaks to improve on that but the focus should be somewhere else. Gather some data from the big players and decide if you are willing to pay the tax (tt loss) to perform activities on the platform.
For some years you sound like a broken record every day: 'the tt return is too damn low'. Guess what, we all could use some more, but it is what it is.
I'm down 190k ped in TT since loot 2.0, but besides chasing more efficiency and looter, there is not much I can do. Bitching about it on the forums helps no one. All I can do is make sure I try my best to have enough markup to cover that.

How about you accept what you cannot change and focus on some stuff you can actually change to improve the game?
 
On the contrary.

i have yet to see that. So far your trying everything so that the game stays the way it is.

How about you accept what you cannot change and focus on some stuff you can actually change to improve the game?

Look at all the crying hunters have done and how many changes MA did make for them, including an increase in %-return, so crying obviously gets MA to change stuff...

For some years you sound like a broken record every day: 'the tt return is too damn low'. Guess what, we all could use some more, but it is what it is.

the last i've been at 95% TT-return was 2 years ago, the last time i had a hof was 1.5 years ago, not my fault that MA has never fixed the bug on crafting/mining that snuck in during loot 2.0. You know, when there's hunting bugs they get fixed in no time, while game-breaking crafting/mining bugs stay around for years... but it's no surprise with the hunters always lobbying that crafting/mining should stay broken and shouldn't get any bug-fixing or improvements...
 
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