Impact of skills on professions

OK, had a bash at the Grenadier (Dmg) professions today (see previous page).

I used some numbers from my own skilling, and also some data from people's wiki entries (cross checking with other professions to check the data was accurate). I then tried whacking it into a big matrix and inverting but that spewed out nonsense (even with the Ranged Laser numbers where we know the answer). So I hashed together a version of the brute force guessing code I did originally for the first pro-standing thread and that seems to work pretty well.

The numbers on the previous page are the only numbers I could find which gave results correct to within 0.03 profession levels (and are actually accurate to 0.02 which is about 2 pixels). EPWT wasn't quite pinned down, and SWS could plausibly be involved. Kill Strike hasn't been tested yet.

I'll try a similar approach tomorrow for the crafting one.
 
Here some input in Colorer

I am Level 15 - 5/6 on the way to 16

Glamour -
Coloring Methodology -
Agility 46
Intelligence 30
Dexerty 2701
Color Matching 1532
Coloring 2345
Fashion Design 63

Hope this helps
and may add again after reaching Level 16 if you like?
 
OK, bit of difficulty with the plan of action for Projectile Launcher Engineer....there's only one person who's uploaded their profession level to wiki for that :D

So I'm a bit stuck on that one for now.

Here some input in Colorer

I am Level 15 - 5/6 on the way to 16

Glamour -
Coloring Methodology -
Agility 46
Intelligence 30
Dexerty 2701
Color Matching 1532
Coloring 2345
Fashion Design 63

Hope this helps
and may add again after reaching Level 16 if you like?

Thanks Leeloo :)

And yes, posting them when you hit 16 would be very useful. Firstly, that'd give us more exact data which is always good. Secondly you'll have more Fashion Design then (the contribution from 63 is a bit too small to deduce much from).
 
OK, bit of difficulty with the plan of action for Projectile Launcher Engineer....there's only one person who's uploaded their profession level to wiki for that :D

So I'm a bit stuck on that one for now.

It seems I made a typo in the name :ahh:, engeneer instead of engineer. So that profession wasnt added when someone uploaded their skillfile. Fixed now. I also uploaded my skillfile so you have an extra dataset ;). The one that was added already is manually entered and likely not accurate.
 
It seems I made a typo in the name :ahh:, engeneer instead of engineer. So that profession wasnt added when someone uploaded their skillfile. Fixed now. I also uploaded my skillfile so you have an extra dataset ;). The one that was added already is manually entered and likely not accurate.

LOL so much information entrusted to one human being. With great power -- comes great responsibility. :laugh:

Jimmy, shoot me the % you're thinking my way and i can auto-check them with everyone on wiki.
 
LOL so much information entrusted to one human being. With great power -- comes great responsibility. :laugh:

Good its a wiki and everyones responsibility :cool: I deny all charges :silly2:
 
Ooops lol Witte, I thought it was odd :D

LOL so much information entrusted to one human being. With great power -- comes great responsibility. :laugh:

Jimmy, shoot me the % you're thinking my way and i can auto-check them with everyone on wiki.

Thanks Doer :)

I only used about 6 sets of data from wiki, so if you have a quick way of checking the rest of the Grenadier (Dmg) ones work from the percentages I've listed that'd be great.

I'll check back to wiki in a few days time and see if there's a few more sets of data for the engi profession then I'll run the code again and see what %s it throws out. It might come up with some choices for this one as I'm guessing most the data sets will have low profession levels for that one. The auto-checking may well thin out the options if that happens.
 
hi guys,
sorry to interrupt the grenadier party (great job, btw)... :)

as a result of the ultra-uber "zychion fap" thread, i've started to bother some ubers :ahh: asking for info regarding their paramedic professions.
what i have found so far:
- medical therapy influence is 5%
- it seems to unlock at level 50, contrary to what wiki says (45)

i'm waiting for more info to come, and i'll report as soon as i find anything regarding doctor or scientist...

cheers,
/jdegre.
 
Thanks jdegre :)

Paramedic post updated.
 
Thanks Doer :)

I only used about 6 sets of data from wiki, so if you have a quick way of checking the rest of the Grenadier (Dmg) ones work from the percentages I've listed that'd be great.

First of all, only 3 avatar data sets that my script finds have any grenadier-specific skills. There are 76 avatar skill/profession data sets on wiki now that meet the laser sniper sanity check. Of those, 8 are off from the predicted Grenadier (Dmg) level by more than 0.012 and none by more than 0.018 using your skill contributions. All three of the avatars with grenadier skills fall in that exceptional group.

If i reduce the contribution by EPWT to 33%, 2 of the 3 avatars with grenadier skills now fit under 0.012 error. Reducing the contribution another % point puts all three within the margin.

I think it's more like 32% EPWT and 12% Kill Strike/other, but we really are lacking in good data for the grenadier specific skills.

If you have an inkling of the crafter skills breakdown, let me know so i can use it as a seed when i run it on that same data set.
 
Heya Jimmy / Doer,

Just upped my stats again now that wiki was fixed for the Projectile Launcher Eng. spelling. Have a few skill points in that area now so data should be helpful for you. Used NRF of course so it's accurate.
 
First of all, only 3 avatar data sets that my script finds have any grenadier-specific skills. There are 76 avatar skill/profession data sets on wiki now that meet the laser sniper sanity check. Of those, 8 are off from the predicted Grenadier (Dmg) level by more than 0.012 and none by more than 0.018 using your skill contributions. All three of the avatars with grenadier skills fall in that exceptional group.

If i reduce the contribution by EPWT to 33%, 2 of the 3 avatars with grenadier skills now fit under 0.012 error. Reducing the contribution another % point puts all three within the margin.

I think it's more like 32% EPWT and 12% Kill Strike/other, but we really are lacking in good data for the grenadier specific skills.

Hmmm. Yes, the only data that I had with a reasonable amount of Grenadier skills was my own. And, with 34% I had 3 of the people on wiki I had errors of +0.011, +0.014, +0.014. These were:

wiki: 44.420, calc: 44.434
wiki: 33.480, calc: 33.494
wiki: 29.770, calc: 29.781

Also had one with an error of 0.02 but it had the same error for Laser so I disregarded it.

Assuming all of the data sets came from NRF, adjusting the first 44.42 to find the third decimal place gives 44+53pixels/124=44.427 or 44+52pixels/124=44.419. (124 or 125 I forget? I think 124...) So I'm assuming it must be 44.419, although I can't remember for certain how NRF does the rounding (there's a few where two pixels give out the same answer on NRF obviously as we're fitting 124 pixels into 100 points).

So I seem to have an error of 0.015, which is a bit worrying.

The second comes out as 59 or 60 pixels, but still slightly out of range. The third (which has no grenade skills) comes out as 96 pixels --> 29.774 and back in range.

However for my three data sets of my own I have:

no grenade skills: +0.002
grenade skills at about 100: +0.003
grenade skills at about 200: +0.006

Reduce to 33%

no grenade skills: +0.002
grenade skills at about 100: -0.009
grenade skills at about 200: -0.017

And obviously even worse for 32%

My feeling was the non-Grenadier skills were right and I thought maybe SWS was having an effect too but just done a quick check and I can't make it work with SWS>0.5% so that seems unlikely. Anyway, its late - I'll have a look later when I'm fresh. If we get completely stuck I'll chip out what I have of SWS and EPWT and do it the traditional way :D

If you have an inkling of the crafter skills breakdown, let me know so i can use it as a seed when i run it on that same data set.

I haven't got any data for that yet, apart from my own. wiki didn't have the prolevels for it so I had no way of figuring it out. But presumably you have the same problem there too unless I'm missing something :confused:
 
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Heya Jimmy / Doer,

Just upped my stats again now that wiki was fixed for the Projectile Launcher Eng. spelling. Have a few skill points in that area now so data should be helpful for you. Used NRF of course so it's accurate.

Ah, thanks Coffee. :)
 
I just noticed a discrepancy with regard to total skills. After exporting to csv from NRF and uploading, wiki gives me a total skill value of 169962. Yet as I look in NRF under total skills it says 170040. Any idea where this slight difference may be coming from?

( May need to post this in the NRF thread but thought it was relevant here too as it may have some effect on your work. Also you seem more likely to know what the difference may be with the comparison work you're doing.)
 
I just noticed a discrepancy with regard to total skills. After exporting to csv from NRF and uploading, wiki gives me a total skill value of 169962. Yet as I look in NRF under total skills it says 170040. Any idea where this slight difference may be coming from?

( May need to post this in the NRF thread but thought it was relevant here too as it may have some effect on your work. Also you seem more likely to know what the difference may be with the comparison work you're doing.)

Hmmm, that sounds more likely a problem with the upload to wiki than a problem with NRF to me. The only thing I can think off the top of my head is that some NRF prolevels have the same text as the skills (eg. Miner, Miner, Sweat Gatherer, Sweat Gatherer) which might cause a problem.

Or does wiki not count attributes maybe? Or Health? <EDIT: hmm no I guess you have more than 78 health lol>

Hmmm, OK I looked at it. It lists your Miner skill as 17.7 but you don't seem to have Mining prolevels such that you could have unlocked it so something odd seems to be going on. Also I can't find EPWT in your skills (I'm guessing NRF still doesn't pick it up so you have to enter that one manually).

Anyway, I'm off to sleep...I'll check back in tomorrow.
 
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Heya Jimmy / Doer,

Just upped my stats again now that wiki was fixed for the Projectile Launcher Eng. spelling. Have a few skill points in that area now so data should be helpful for you. Used NRF of course so it's accurate.

Thanks Coffee. Unfortunately, the problem with your data on wiki is that it is missing Explosive Projectile Weaponry Technology skill, and that is due to NRF currently not parsing it correctly. It is really making it tricky to break down these new professions.

That's the reason for the discrepancy, most likely.

The three avatars failing the Grenadier (Hit) test that do pass the Laser Sniper (Hit) sanity check are
Angelica Coffee Lastrome
Metrale Litago
Vintage Yquem Port
and that's still due to the failings of NRF, no doubt. All of them clearly should have EPWT skill because they have Support Weapon Systems skill, yet don't.
 
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Hmmm, OK I looked at it. It lists your Miner skill as 17.7 but you don't seem to have Mining prolevels such that you could have unlocked it so something odd seems to be going on. Also I can't find EPWT in your skills (I'm guessing NRF still doesn't pick it up so you have to enter that one manually).

Yup... that seems to be two of the problems. 17.7 is my PS in Mining and I don't have the skill Miner unlocked.

Also checked NRF file and it didn't parse the EPWT skill >.< .

Thanks Coffee. Unfortunately, the problem with your data on wiki is that it is missing Explosive Projectile Weaponry Technology skill, and that is due to NRF currently not parsing it correctly. It is really making it tricky to break down these new professions.

That's the reason for the discrepancy, most likely.

Thanks for that. Seems you're right there. I'm gonna download the latest NRF update now. Not sure if that will correct it. Other than that I will just have to upload a pic for that skill. Is there any best/prefered format to save in where pixel counting is easiest?

Edit: Still have something off though because removing 17.7 from Miner and adding over 400 (don't know exact number) to EPWT gives a big error in total skills the other direction.
 
Yup... that seems to be two of the problems. 17.7 is my PS in Mining and I don't have the skill Miner unlocked.

Also checked NRF file and it didn't parse the EPWT skill >.< .



Thanks for that. Seems you're right there. I'm gonna download the latest NRF update now. Not sure if that will correct it. Other than that I will just have to upload a pic for that skill. Is there any best/prefered format to save in where pixel counting is easiest?

Edit: Still have something off though because removing 17.7 from Miner and adding over 400 (don't know exact number) to EPWT gives a big error in total skills the other direction.

NRF hasn't been updated since the bug was reported.
 
Well I'm still confused with what these differences are. Took a pic of my EPWT though so you can pixel count. I filled in the wiki amount with best guess but it's not accurate.

 
Just a final update before i give up on this for another few days (not enough data on engineer profession etc.). With the three avatars that had their projectile engineer professions on wiki tonight, a skill distribution following the same pattern as BLP overpredicted on avatars with low engineering and few other crafting skills and underpredicted almost 10% for me, with some BPC and over 1k engineering. I fiddled with a few values but clearly there's not enough resolution right now.

Over to you Mr. NRF (Squee) and Jimmy. :)
 
I have updated my skills on wiki, hopefully this will help you guys in calculating the Grenadier profession forumlas. I have been skilling this new profession with some of the lower damage weapons available.

Also, is there a way to accurately calculate exact professional standing number (similar to what EU Companion does for attributes)? This may help in calculating a more accurate prediction formula.
 
Well I had updated NRF and that caused a change in my total skills reported. I also went thru and compared each skill in NRF to what was posted on wiki. What I found for errors was:

Miner PS being loaded into wiki as Miner skill.

Sweat Gatherer PS being loaded into wiki as skill.

Not sure when that started happening because at one point the PS data for both was correctly loading. I manually changed my SG PS and skill along with Miner PS and skill values. I manually added the EPWT value with a GUESTimate but the actual pic for pixel counting is above. The total skill value was updated manually on wiki with what NRF is currently reporting plus the addition of the EPWT skill value. I still don't know if the totals are 100% correct.

Maybe Squee and Witte can look into why Miner and SG are loading incorrectly?
 
I have updated my skills on wiki, hopefully this will help you guys in calculating the Grenadier profession forumlas. I have been skilling this new profession with some of the lower damage weapons available.

Also, is there a way to accurately calculate exact professional standing number (similar to what EU Companion does for attributes)? This may help in calculating a more accurate prediction formula.

NRF does pixel counting on Proffessional Standings.
 
Well I had updated NRF and that caused a change in my total skills reported. I also went thru and compared each skill in NRF to what was posted on wiki. What I found for errors was:

Miner PS being loaded into wiki as Miner skill.

Sweat Gatherer PS being loaded into wiki as skill.

Not sure when that started happening because at one point the PS data for both was correctly loading. I manually changed my SG PS and skill along with Miner PS and skill values. I manually added the EPWT value with a GUESTimate but the actual pic for pixel counting is above. The total skill value was updated manually on wiki with what NRF is currently reporting plus the addition of the EPWT skill value. I still don't know if the totals are 100% correct.

Maybe Squee and Witte can look into why Miner and SG are loading incorrectly?

I am not having this problem with sweat gatherer. Are you using XML or CSV export/import? Whenever possible it is probably more likely to work right using XML.

Thanks Neo. NRF is handy for grabbing pixel-accurate data of both skills/attributes and professional standings. Unfortunately Squee is a bit too busy to update it as fast as we'd like, but it's the best option around atm.
 
I am not having this problem with sweat gatherer. Are you using XML or CSV export/import? Whenever possible it is probably more likely to work right using XML.

Thanks Neo. NRF is handy for grabbing pixel-accurate data of both skills/attributes and professional standings. Unfortunately Squee is a bit too busy to update it as fast as we'd like, but it's the best option around atm.

I've been using CSV >.< ... old school I guess. Just went with what I knew. I'll have to start using xml now. ;)
 
I have updated my skills on wiki, hopefully this will help you guys in calculating the Grenadier profession forumlas. I have been skilling this new profession with some of the lower damage weapons available.

Also, is there a way to accurately calculate exact professional standing number (similar to what EU Companion does for attributes)? This may help in calculating a more accurate prediction formula.

:woohoo: Wow ... I actually have a combat skill that's higher than yours? Hehe ... I can actually call you a launcher noob. :laugh:

Edit: Of course so am I, just a little less so :p.
 
Well, i decided to run the program again with Coffee's information (zenct seems to have slipped in some new data, too). Between the two of them there are two relatively good levels of grenadier-specific skills. The good news is that both came out within 0.014 of the original numbers Jimmy B gave. It may be that PE Companion truncates while NRF rounds, or something along those lines, leading to the other avatars with grenadier skills coming out slightly below the values of those from NRF.

Here's an example how broad the range is to fit the skills to the currently available datasets for Projectile Launcher Engineer. Both of these gave values much below the error margin:

Intelligence 2.0
Explosive Projectile Weaponry Technology 8.5
Blueprint Comprehension 28.0
Unknown 13.5
Machinery 9.0
Manufacture Weapons 7.0
Weapon Technology 6.0
Engineering 26.0


Intelligence 2.0
Explosive Projectile Weaponry Technology 7.0
Blueprint Comprehension 25.0
Unknown 21.0
Machinery 9.0
Manufacture Weapons 1.0
Weapon Technology 8.0
Engineering 27.0


I was going to use Neo's information to check the results so far but there are no professional standings available.
 
Well I had updated NRF and that caused a change in my total skills reported. I also went thru and compared each skill in NRF to what was posted on wiki. What I found for errors was:

Miner PS being loaded into wiki as Miner skill.

Sweat Gatherer PS being loaded into wiki as skill.

Not sure when that started happening because at one point the PS data for both was correctly loading. I manually changed my SG PS and skill along with Miner PS and skill values. I manually added the EPWT value with a GUESTimate but the actual pic for pixel counting is above. The total skill value was updated manually on wiki with what NRF is currently reporting plus the addition of the EPWT skill value. I still don't know if the totals are 100% correct.

Maybe Squee and Witte can look into why Miner and SG are loading incorrectly?

Hmm well in the CSV file of NRF there isnt realy a way of telling if it is a skill or profession, except that skills come first and then professions. I think the CSV from EUCompannion uses a header that sais if it is a skill or profession. But ill see what I can do about it.

EDIT: I made some changes to the code. CSV from NRF should work now as long as the skills come first and the professions after. I did no testing at all, I will leave that up to you :)
 
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Hmm well in the CSV file of NRF there isnt realy a way of telling if it is a skill or profession, except that skills come first and then professions. I think the CSV from EUCompannion uses a header that sais if it is a skill or profession. But ill see what I can do about it.

EDIT: I made some changes to the code. CSV from NRF should work now as long as the skills come first and the professions after. I did no testing at all, I will leave that up to you :)

Thanks a bunch ... I may use the stuff but figuring out how it all meshes together is a bit more than I tend to delve. :ahh:
 
Thanks a bunch ... I may use the stuff but figuring out how it all meshes together is a bit more than I tend to delve. :ahh:

NP, and tnx for reporting this bug. I uploaded my own skills, and in order to get it right it is best you erase the miner skill manually. If you havnt unlocked it, it wont be removed automaticly.
 
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