Clarification about Entropia banking operations

Annica said:

I think it is like in real life , anyone can not start a bank, you need to be approved first. With a real approved bank you have security, with someone on the street lending out money theres no security at all IF the person lending out money not ask for collateral. In real life the person lending out money (not a bank) maybe send some big guys breaking the persons legs if he dont pay back.
What are you going to do in EU if the person dont pay back?
MA wont help you. You can kill the person in PVP and maybe loot some of it but that is not very likely to happen.

In my opinion Eu is allready to much about economy and money. Wheres the fun if all is about money and deals?

I see more and more threads here about just how to earn money, prices , banks, low prices, high prices, selling, buying.
I dont know about you but for me its getting a bit boring that ALL is about money.

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Well, the word collateral is self-meaning? No need for broking legs (or not... ) or killing in pvp, he don't pay back, i keep the collateral as we traded.

Yes, EU is perhaps too much over economy and money, but really, what do you expect from a RCE game?. People greedyness usually take their mind out of the basic purpose of a game, to have fun. I take it easy, i only want fun, no matter if it costs me 20 bucks.
Annica, will you marry me?

DoctorH said:

Don't forget your most powerful voice is your ped card. Unhappy with the way the bank system is being developed; refrain from using it until it is a system that you approve of. No one forces us to use a bank, hunt on any land area, spend in any malls and shops or even use the auction. I suggest we collectively adopt a policy of putting our money where our mouth is. If you don't like the banking system; don't use banks and let the bankowners enjoy their investments they made without you. It's simple really........
Doc

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Not that simple when people who had this idea before and were running a succesfull business are now threatened to be banned by MA if they dont stop...
And this ONLY because MA screwed up big time...
I say sue... I'll have my parts to add...

BlackMagicWoman said:

Not that simple when people who had this idea before and were running a succesfull business are now threatened to be banned by MA if they dont stop...
And this ONLY because MA screwed up big time...
I say sue... I'll have my parts to add...

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Running a successful business?

CBE was announced after the banking licenses were auctioned, and was only in operation for a few days.

Sue on what grounds lol?

I think you need to re-read the EULA that you agree to every time you log in to entropia.

LuckyStrike said:

Running a successful business?

CBE was announced after the banking licenses were auctioned, and was only in operation for a few days.

Sue on what grounds lol?

I think you need to re-read the EULA that you agree to every time you log in to entropia.

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Dude, I am not talking about CBE, but Teilik did. So stop your flaming and insults, I grew tired of them.

it's all a heated discussion. I like discussions. however...

there are two issues, here. the first are the licences. anyone with a shread of intellegence realises that the licences are for pawn shops. there is nothing wrong with that. to make the pawn shops more appealing, MA tied a building, an automated system, and a prefered location to the deal. well, those things sound like a good advantage. so, off the licences went to auction.

they were sold - as is.

in the meantime, some other people figured they could run a similar business and undercut the official pawn shops. that was okay, as well. the official shops would still have the aforementioned advantages.

then the trouble starts...

MA hasn't delivered what they promised to the licence holders. how they felt about that I don't know. the rogues, in the meantime, seem to be making some traction doing what these people paid money to have the priviledge of doing. at this point, one or more of them took offence and asked (or demanded) that MA enforce their licence.

okay, fine.

the second part is that one of the licence holders is busy selling unregulated shares and associating them with their authorised licence. most people with a brain realise that this association is, at best, a mild deception.

now, finally, the situation reaches critical mass, when MA claims that their decision to enforce the licence has to do with preventing fraud.

well, this is partially true for the unofficial lenders, as some could be fraudulant. but, it's not like this did not exist before and will not continue to exist. further, it's not so easy to set up such a business - particuarly on a large scale as are the official licences.

the argument regarding the newcomers in PA as justification is particualrly insulting as they have nothing to pawn at the shops and are normally subject to horrible confidence swindles such as the common "upgrade" scam.

this brings us back to the second point where a high profile licence holder is operating a scheme that by all MA defintions falls into the "all trades are final" camp.

to me, the hypocracy of "protecting the little guy" is staggaring.

perhaps, at this point, people should start offering unregulated shares in all their ventures - malls, land areas, mining operations, spaceflights, shops, equpiment rental, etc. after all, all of these things would fall into the "all trades are final" camp and not cross the competition restriction with the official lendors - because they would not be pawn shops.

anyway, it's been fun talking about this stuff. at the end of the day, I'm not going to be using any of the official services, so I could care less. I do feel for the unsuspecting who might contribute to paying for a bank owner's investement through an unoffical channel with no official recource.

BlackMagicWoman said:

Dude, I am not talking about CBE, but Teilik did. So stop your flaming and insults, I grew tired of them.

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Where did I flame or insult you?

I attacked your silly argument, not your person.

It would help all readers if you knew the meaning of a term before trying to use it in a sentence.

LuckyStrike said:

Where did I flame or insult you?

I attacked your silly argument, not your person.

It would help all readers if you knew the meaning of a term before trying to use it in a sentence.

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I wasnt talking about me. But your vulgar insults towards Akoz... You have little posts, a small search would clarify it better for you.
Now, back on topic.

BlackMagicWoman said:

I wasnt talking about me. But your vulgar insults towards Akoz... You have little posts, a small search would clarify it better for you.
Now, back on topic.

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I was on topic.

And I never insulted Akoz, unless the truth is an insult. You cannot blame me for his shady activities.

LuckyStrike said:

I was on topic.

And I never insulted Akoz, unless the truth is an insult. You cannot blame me for his shady activities.

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Truth?
If you really want the truth then talk about all people with "shady" activities.
You know, even those very well-known and considered "heroes" in our community... Then we talk...
The truth is that MA wants Akoz to appear "shady" to us and make him look like the bad guy. The truth is that he is not the bad guy, but the opposite.
If you want to talk about the "shady" past of our beloved faimous people in this game, I am in!

BlackMagicWoman said:

Truth?
If you really want the truth then talk about all people with "shady" activities.
You know, even those very well-known and considered "heroes" in our community... Then we talk...

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Discussion of Akoz is directly related to this issue, discussion of those others is not.

BlackMagicWoman said:

The truth is that MA wants Akoz to appear "shady" to us and make him look like the bad guy. The truth is that he is not the bad guy, but the opposite.
If you want to talk about the "shady" past of our beloved faimous people in this game, I am in!

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Akoz was locked for using an exploit months before the banks were ever announced. Dont take the blame away from him, and put it on those reporting his actions.


Not only has Qetesh, errr Akoz been locked in the past, he was also one of the losing bidders on the bank licenses.

it's sickening how easily members here are buying into his attempt to cast himself as the victim.

Dont be so gullible

Try to follow along:

1-Akoz gets locked for abusing auction exploit, in attempt to get items weay below market value

2-Akoz receives lot of bad publicity about this on forums

3- Qetesh magically appears and buys all of Akoz landareas

4- Qetesh loses bank license auction, after bidding over 500k peds

5- Akoz joins up with Teilk and announces "rogue bank"

6- MA makes announcement that such street banks are not allowed, since these types of "banks" might well be run by avatars with a history of scamming and or bad behavior in the past (see #1 above)

7- Akoz & co. throw a fit, and play victim role.


zzzzzzzzzz

kira-red said:

perhaps, at this point, people should start offering unregulated shares in all their ventures - malls, land areas, mining operations, spaceflights, shops, equpiment rental, etc. after all, all of these things would fall into the "all trades are final" camp and not cross the competition restriction with the official lendors - because they would not be pawn shops.

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Thats exactly my point , but , then , most of those will probably be made buy loan shark disguise in share shark?
Now , that our loan shark is operating undercover , with his new share shark ID...will say " hey dude you are scaming we will ban you" ?
Or will MA adopt the normal profile " we dont care if you got scamed , you had to be more clever"...

I am oki with all way ... both are fine for me.
I am oki , with protectionism with bank liscence owner..
But i whant things to be clear , and MA dont come with a shady statement builded of a fake story...

They whant entrpreuner to run business in eu , good.But them , people have to be free to do things with their entreprise.
This mean , will not regulate anything that player could create (share , renting...), but only take look at " pawn shop".
Then MA should change their statement.right now , we dont know who MA is protecting , neither we know if MA will protect us again a real scamer.

It seems to me , the honest entrener who will go public , post on forum and try to run his entreprise will get banned , while the undercover loan shark , will scam player freely...

Not thanks , not the situation i like at all.

LuckyStrike said:

Try to follow along:

1-Akoz gets locked for abusing auction exploit, in an attempt to get items weay below market value.

2-Akoz receives lot of bad publicity about this on forums

3- Qetesh magically appears and buys all of Akoz landareas

4- Qetesh loses bank license auction, after bidding over 500k peds

5- Akoz joins up with Teilk and announces "rogue bank"

6- MA makes announcement that such street banks are not allowed, since these types of "banks" might well be run by avatars with a history of scamming and or bad behavior in the past (see #1 above)

7- Akoz & co. throw a fit, and play victim role.


zzzzzzzzzz

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It was up to MA to ban him when they should have done.
Its again MA fault.They create them self the shit that smel so hard on their feet , and they are pointing evryone around saying "stop to fart"...
MA have enought data to ban and lock down akoz and all his avatar for ever... but MA pee on pants and dont have balls to do what they should do... maybe akoz have som special info about MA business , maybe akoz have ask his lawyer to send a nice letter to MA , maybe its how MA deal with all cheater ( i know the bot cheater keep playing undercover)...
But all that is MA problem , not player problem...

I dont see why all player should be forbiden to do this or that , because MA try to bother a bit akoz...
Why MA dont have deletted the auction , since that from there akoz used auction bug...

Comon , its just too dumb...

I don't care, since I wasn't planning on using pawn service, licensed, or otherwise.

kira-red said:

perhaps, at this point, people should start offering unregulated shares in all their ventures - malls, land areas, mining operations, spaceflights, shops, equpiment rental, etc. after all, all of these things would fall into the "all trades are final" camp and not cross the competition restriction with the official lendors - because they would not be pawn shops.

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i wish their was a system for such a venture. i'd buy shares of the malls for sure.

LuckyStrike said:

Are you serious?

Do you think Akoz and Teilk created the idea of secured loans? LOL

I'd bet MA had this in the pipeline for quite a while before releasing it.

This is not a novel idea. MA did not "steal" this idea from the CBE.

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MA is not stealing an idea, MA is stealing whole business.

Etopia said:

They create them self the shit that smel so hard on their feet , and they are pointing evryone around saying "stop to fart"...

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This is now my all time favorite quote. I dont even know what it means, but I love it.

Why not make a compromise? Perhaps the rules could be eased after a month or two, after everyone has a chance to become familiar with the banking system. That way people will have the opprotunity to compete with the banks the same way people selling things in PA or twin compete with the malls and other shops, and people would be more knowledgeable about the banks and would be able to warn noobs. Besides, the only people who wouldn't understand the banking system (noobs, who MA is trying to protect from scammers) wouldn't have much of anything to give to a scammer anyway.

Wormie said:

MA is not stealing an idea, MA is stealing whole business.

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A little history lesson, with timeline:

Nov 9 2006 - Teilk announces secured loan service.

Jan 8 2007 - Teilk closes loan service of his own choice (took break from entropia I think)

Jan 9 2007 - MA announces five exclusive banking licenses

May 3 2007 - Banking license auctions end. Qetesh is the "odd man out", losing last auction to Anshe Chung. The 5 winning banking license owners are announced.

May 6 or 7 2007 - Neverdie, one of the banking license winners, launches bankneverdie.com with the tagline "The Gamer's Bank"

May 26 2007 - Akoz aka "odd man out" announces "Gamer's Bank of Entropia, quite clearly stealing Neverdie's marketing theme. A big debate on that issue takes place on forum, and Akoz then changes name to Citizens Bank of Entorpia.


Following this verifiable timeline, can you seriously claim that MA is stealing this business from Akoz & co???

If anything, Akoz & co are the thieves here, stealing not only the secured loan business model (which MA announced from the start as exclusive), but even the marketing plan of one of the license holders.

Remove the wool from your eyes, ffs!

LuckyStrike said:

Following this verifiable timeline, can you seriously claim that MA is stealing this business from Akoz & co???

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Buisnesses do not steal...they merely consume tangible stratagies that are actualised by weaker competitors (or some such clap-trap).

You will note that no bodies are available...but the foundation posts are nice and sturdy with all that concrete securing them.

Bertha Bot said:

Clarification about Entropia banking operations
04 June 2007

Therefore, any loan services offered outside the approved bank system will be considered by MindArk as scam attempts and the avatar offering such services risk a permanent lockdown of his/her account.


Originally Posted Here

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Sorry to interrupt your personal crusade against Akoz, but have you read this?

LuckyStrike said:

Following this verifiable timeline, can you seriously claim that MA is stealing this business from Akoz & co???

If anything, Akoz & co are the thieves here, stealing not only the secured loan business model (which MA announced from the start as exclusive), but even the marketing plan of one of the license holders.

Remove the wool from your eyes, ffs!

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MA is stealing the whole business from all players who offered loans, not only from Akoz (but you don't care others). Why do you think that this thread only for "defending Akoz"? It's the whole system. If you develope cool system to get cash, MA comes, borrows it, sell it and monopolize it. Like good chinese democrats

Bertha Bot said:

Many people do not fully understand the true value of their virtual items until they are lost.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA......


SORRY TO GO ALL UN-INTELLIGENT ON YOU GUYS, AND I KNOW THE THREAD HAS BEEN ALONG THE LINES OF HOW MA ARE TRYING TO SH*T ON THE LITTLE GUY AGAIN, BUT THIS MADE MA LAUGH AND PRETTY ANGRY TO BE FAIR

WE know the value of these items! Thousands of dollars, we know because if we want them, we gotta pay it!! Tell my Credit card company i dont know the value!!

I say MA dont know the value of these items, they say to us they are all just worth TT and effectively when push comes to shove worth nothing at all!!!

So why MA, Why should i spend $1700 on a ML-35??? Go on, Justify it! You cant, yet because these items are now 1 to every god knows how many people who want one, the wealthy can buy us out, bit like real life i suppose, but this is more a game than real life, so please lets get some more of the good stuff please and then maybe we wouldnt need to go to Akoz to borrow ped to get items, MAYBE, JUST MAYBE once again we could afford em ourselves! We only need loans cos you`ve strangled items out and made it so bloody expensive!!!!!

Well maybe we dont know the value of our items after all? Worthless.....

LuckyStrike said:

A little history lesson, with timeline:

Nov 9 2006 - Teilk announces secured loan service.
bla bla

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You not only are an alternate account here, on EF, but you also try to draw the discussion towards Akoz. This manner really reminds me of someone and you should be investigated.
You truelly have no shame...

GOOSE said:

I say MA dont know the value of these items, they say to us they are all just worth TT and effectively when push comes to shove worth nothing at all!!!

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k...we appear to be moving into the realm of intrinsic value here rather than understanding that all values are relative.

GOOSE said:

Well maybe we dont know the value of our items after all? Worthless.....

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Intrinsicly, yes...therefore handing over those suits of Shadow and pretty mod-faps to me will cost all the Uber's absolutely nothing. I will even give them the tt value, or donate it to a worthy cause

As with all good ideas, regardless of source; once the controlling party sees a reason to exploit them they become their creation.

It's MA's ball, if we don't play their game they'll pick it up and go home...they might decide to take our relatives (sic) with them if we really annoy them.

Etopia said:

They create them self the shit that smel so hard on their feet , and they are pointing evryone around saying "stop to fart"...

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Congadawg said:

This is now my all time favorite quote. I dont even know what it means, but I love it.

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that really is a nice new siggy congadawg.

i have no idea what it means either, but i wholeheartedly agree with it.

oh, yeah, and if anyone got confused by what i said yesterday.

poop.

tyvm.

LuckyStrike said:

Following this verifiable timeline, can you seriously claim that MA is stealing this business from Akoz & co???

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1. whatever problem u personally have with Akoz, I don't care, go marry him and solve it in the bathroom, but plz stop trolling the thread.

2. fyi, before these guys, the first pawn shop I was aware of was that of ViagraFalls. Is less important if MA took the idea from the players, be it Teilk, Akoz, ViagraFalls or Melchior for that matter, what's important is that the "secured loan system" which everybody asked for came as "exclusive (atm) banking linceses". What bothers me is that MA is threatening quite amatorial.

And I wonder what MindArk will say about the avatar "Virtual FOND Manager" I saw this morning at New Oxford, talking about scammers..

Also fyi, nor I know nor I give a flying shit who exactly you are but between hidden "heores of truth" and Akoz, reseller & locked exploiter, f*ck me, I trust Akoz more. If you have balls and have something to say, do it with ur own avatar, publicly. Otherwise, shu.

LarsMac said:

I don't care, since I wasn't planning on using pawn service, licensed, or otherwise.

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You should still care about the issues here because next time it may be something that does affect you.

Skippie said:

that really is a nice new siggy congadawg.

i have no idea what it means either, but i wholeheartedly agree with it.

oh, yeah, and if anyone got confused by what i said yesterday.

poop.

tyvm.

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It means something like: MA created a big, hard-smelling sh!t that they themselves carry around on their feet, but it the same time they blame others for the bad smell of their own poo and they start dictating others to never fart again or they will be banned

Maybe MA should be the ones to get banned for scamming investors out of $400,000 and for operating a bank without a licence from the government or financial services industry