Clarification about Entropia banking operations

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The real question is :
Will anshe pay back the IPO , or will she get baned soon ?

I guess neither will happen.

Just remember the last LG fiasco (compensation for some uber socs because of bugs - normal player gets nada when a bug costs him money?), or ND openly using 2nd avatar (for how long without a ban?)...

Sorry, i have nothing personal against mentioned persons...

But chinese conditions here now more often...?

Quite sure that i don't like that very much.

Tussi
 
Anshe is paying a fee for every loan she does.. but I hope she is banned for scamming the general population with fake shares in an overvalued enterprise. She wont be though.. MA wants her to buy a new improved LA when they are released...


( Hell, if I am an "attempted scammer" by word of MA for trying to offer the same service without the expensive building, then selling shares in an unregulated field has to be a scam, right?)

no. its lear shares are ok. why not try to find a way to use that to your advantage. you could issue "shares" for all sorts of things.
 
odd.. laggy double post
 
Edit: Should have attacked MA, not anshe
 
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Its clear that someone from the banks has made a support case and practically "forcing" MA to say this :). But in the end the licenses where there for a reason.....
 
Its clear that someone from the banks has made a support case and practically "forcing" MA to say this :). But in the end the licenses where there for a reason.....

Seems logic MA forbiden the "bank" action without a liscence.
But the MA statement is they forbiden all sort of "banking" action out of the "MA banking" system.
Wich make clear that anshe will have a lot of problem with her IPO and buy/sell ped system...
 
The real question is :
Will anshe pay back the IPO , or will she get baned soon ?

What is worse, non-secured unlicensed loan for collateral or non-secured virtual worthless stocks for money ?

If MA has selfrespect then they soon make a second statement about issueing non-secured stocks being scamming. Give them a week to prepare their statement :laugh:
 
shop owners should feel outraged as well.. as it would be considered a scam for crafters or hunters to loan product to shop owners.. based on what the first post says the shop owner would be considered a scammer to offer to sell product for other players and pay them back after the sell of said product..

- ; P
 
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What is worse, non-secured unlicensed loan for collateral or non-secured virtual worthless stocks for money ?

If MA has selfrespect then they soon make a second statement about issueing non-secured stocks being scamming. Give them a week to prepare their statement :laugh:

Well not entirely sure how easy this would be but MA could implement a certain amount of sellable stocks tied to each of the banking licenses. I mean there are only 5 of them for the next two years. Maybe that will be the next big thing having stocks associated with certain OLAs, Malls, and Banks. That might however open another can of worms that MA doesnt yet have the man power for but maybe when they collaborate with China they will. Ohhh well its fun to speculate :)
 
Good night MA, that's it with your "unique universe". One last question to Marco: When will we see "crafters licenses", "hunters licenses", "mining licenses" and so on being sold to ND & other of your fellows... to call us gamers SCAMMERS when we try to do business in a "so called" free virtual universe?!?


Ag.
 
MA was very vague about the "other services" a bank would be able to offer... If you read back a bit regarding Anshe's initial postings about the IPO, it's pretty clear that discussions with MA on the issue of the IPO and shares in ABE had taken place and that tacit, if not explicit, approval had been given to her by MA before the shares were offered.

Let's keep in mind who the bad guy is here... MA makes announcements that are transparent as mud and modifiy the rules at their whim. If Anshe had the bucks to play the game by MA's rules, then so be it.

I agree wholeheartedly that CBE got shafted. I'm 100% in favor of CBE and the entreprenurial spirit of Akoz, Teilk and the others. I'm as pro-free enterprise as anyone in this forum and I applaud every creative idea that has been introduced by the players to work within MA's ever changing rule book...

If MA is protecting their interests by making this announcement, then it's MA that you have to blame.
 
I really appreciate the fact that MA has been kind enough to label all of us that have worked so hard for years to build an unblemished reputation that allows us to operate such businesses successfully with such pleasant terms as "scam attempt", and "permanent lockdown of account".


I am truly amazed that MA would pull such a stunt, though I know I should not be. the sudden reversal of policy is interesting as well. First it was more along the lines of "use at your own risk", now its "we will lock anyone who wants to compete in the free market".

SO the answer is to NOT USE the banks, REALLY, if you are bad enough off to have to borrow peds to play the game, maybe you should just go to gamblers anonymous?
 
MA was very vague about the "other services" a bank would be able to offer... If you read back a bit regarding Anshe's initial postings about the IPO, it's pretty clear that discussions with MA on the issue of the IPO and shares in ABE had taken place and that tacit, if not explicit, approval had been given to her by MA before the shares were offered.

Let's keep in mind who the bad guy is here... MA makes announcements that are transparent as mud and modifiy the rules at their whim. If Anshe had the bucks to play the game by MA's rules, then so be it.

I agree wholeheartedly that CBE got shafted. I'm 100% in favor of CBE and the entreprenurial spirit of Akoz, Teilk and the others. I'm as pro-free enterprise as anyone in this forum and I applaud every creative idea that has been introduced by the players to work within MA's ever changing rule book...

If MA is protecting their interests by making this announcement, then it's MA that you have to blame.

The funny thing is that I had tacit approval while running Teilks Loan Service. after that, with the incarnation of CBE, we had vaguely explicit approval (just a few short days ago, posted by marco here on EF), with the condition that MA would not back our customers if an issue requiring MA intervention arose.

The double standard however, is a bit unnerving. We are not allowed to loan money to those who request it, yet a new investor can buy/sell peds through unauthorized means, and sell shares with no regulation at all in a company that they have openly admitted that they have valued at over 200% of the actual value of the company.

I just have to laugh at the selective enforcement of the EULA with regards to investors, and the draconian laws put in place to protect their violations.
 
The funny thing is that I had tacit approval while running Teilks Loan Service. after that, with the incarnation of CBE, we had vaguely explicit approval (just a few short days ago, posted by marco here on EF), with the condition that MA would not back our customers if an issue requiring MA intervention arose.

The double standard however, is a bit unnerving. We are not allowed to loan money to those who request it, yet a new investor can buy/sell peds through unauthorized means, and sell shares with no regulation at all in a company that they have openly admitted that they have valued at over 200% of the actual value of the company.

I just have to laugh at the selective enforcement of the EULA with regards to investors, and the draconian laws put in place to protect their violations.

I understand, my friend... and as you know I am one of the biggest and most vocal critics of MA's policies as regards their playerbase... My point was simply to stay focussed on MA and their policies rather than at each other...
 
Clarification about Entropia banking operations
04 June 2007
Therefore, any loan services offered outside the approved bank system will be considered by MindArk as scam attempts and the avatar offering such services risk a permanent lockdown of his/her account.
Originally Posted Here

This is total BS. MA is basically threatning anyone that would loan something to get locked. Good job MA!
Guys, be aware, be careful not to borrow items from your friends or you will be considered scammers!:laugh:
Dont forget that the huge amount of money anyone would invest is not protected by the EULA if they decide to lock you account. All of your "goodies" will be theirs...
 
Berta's conclusion:
Come into this awesome RCE universe as a "investor". If you have an idea of a nice new business we haven't discovered yet: try out, we will have a look at your moneyflow. If high enough, we will set up licenses for that business, sell them to our fellow ND and other friends and then kick you. Thanks and have fun... and please keep depositing for all of us and our fellow investors.


BertaTheBug
 
Ok, I feel I must voice my opinion on this matter.

Firstly, I have previously worked with Akoz and trust him 100%, Teilk although my communication with you is extremely limited your posts suggest you are a perfectionist and very intelligent, CindyWood - never had any comms with you but you are a member of a highly respected society and a friend of Akoz. All 3 people I would trust.

Now, as far as im concerned MA have made a terrible mistake by making these 3 people's business outlawed. And it so easily could have been avoided. As things are MA have adjusted the goal posts to suit the biggest investers and all this says to me is that "you give us the money, we will make darn sure that the playing community has to spend extra to you". Correct me if im wrong but where else is the cash coming from to pay back the initial cost of the licenses....its you and me, the paying public.

How I would have done it if I was MA.....

When they introduce the bank VU also add a feature of unsecure loan, ie when you right click an avatar and scroll down the list you will find Private trade and under that unsecure loan...this will open a trade window as before but with big red warning signs of the risk involved, hell the licenced bank rates could also be advertised in the warning messages aswell as a secure alternative :) This way if there is ANY conflict then MA can simply say "well you did click numerous warning messages before taking the agreement". Problem solved.

Is that really so hard to impliment?

instead we are in the situation of MA basically making rules up as they go along. The winners of the bank auctions didnt have this quote outlawing non approved loans when they bought the things so why now, they paid a price for what they saw at the time. Now it seems they may have paid too much...Poor form on your part bank owners - you simply paid too much and now ingame laws are being changed to help you (the minority) and will surely cost us the players (the majority) more. It stinks to the core.

I understand MA want to help protect peoples investment which is a good thing but to go as far as changing rules after the event has happened, ending free-trade and threatening players offering rival services with perm ban is way out of order.

Also it makes a farce out of some trades doesnt it....hell am I going to hire a fapper as surely im "loaning" their services or hell will I ever borrow or lend an item to/from a friend.

Ofc, Akoz and co could just operate as resellers, ie ok ill buy this off you and sell it back to you in a month time at such *a higher price*...Now MA, please tell us how that breaks the EULA, even with your new stance? as people called "resellers" have been enjoying the profits of this since the start :eek:

Too many Grey areas and a mess has been created by late rule changes and the shock of possible competition to MA and the bank buyers....time to sort it out in the next VU I think MA, I suggest you look at the option I have listed above.
 
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I really appreciate the fact that MA has been kind enough to label all of us that have worked so hard for years to build an unblemished reputation that allows us to operate such businesses successfully with such pleasant terms as "scam attempt", and "permanent lockdown of account".


I am truly amazed that MA would pull such a stunt, though I know I should not be. the sudden reversal of policy is interesting as well. First it was more along the lines of "use at your own risk", now its "we will lock anyone who wants to compete in the free market".

dont worry Teilik, they labeled a whole country as well...
*time to stop depositing*
 
Entropia Investment Fund started to be an alternative way of getting some land in EU. You don’t need to be rich or member of the millionaire club to get a piece of a property in EU. In some way, MA has made this EU to a “rich mans game” where the common man has absolutely no chance to get a piece of land.

Our idea might be rebellious to the MA concept of a rich mans club where only a few wealthy people owning land areas, but we will still believe in the concept of the masses can get together and own something together. In real life, we have seen that in Sweden many times, where cooperation’s and trade unions get properties/stores to the benefit of its members. It’s nothing unique, and we continue our work without be called scammers! Instead it would be better if MA created a secure system where this sort of business can operate.

Unfortunately MindArk has never been interested in the idea, not even when the Fund Manager informed them about what we started. I try to be as objective as possible, but it’s very hard to not neglect the fact, that MA still can clamp down on the small man trying to get something together.
However, history has proven that dictatorship don’t’ last long. MA have to listen to the common man and the entrepreneurs in game to be successful in the future, otherwise we loose interest.
 
im genuinly concerned now ive thought about this... how will they differentiate between a trade and a loan? what if i buy something from someone and get a good price, then the person wants to report me claiming it was just a loan? Am i a scammer by default, lock first ask questions later?
 
im genuinly concerned now ive thought about this... how will they differentiate between a trade and a loan? what if i buy something from someone and get a good price, then the person wants to report me claiming it was just a loan? Am i a scammer by default, lock first ask questions later?

Unless you are a big investor.. then you are the victim.
 
Oh stop your whining people!

This is just another example in the long line of things prooving that Calypso is a planet run by a capitalistic dictator - or, as Erns Billgren put it, "Entropia is a capitalistic dictatorship". :duh:

Now, get used to it or go make a petition or something. :silly2:
 
Here is the way I see this:

The community wanted a loan system in place.

MA did not provide a loan system in a reasonable time.

The community developed a loan system on their own initiative. They developed trust in the community and offered good service at a fair price.

MA finally added a loan system.

MA needs to protect the financial investment of those that purchased bank licenses.

In the past MA has said that they wish to create a platform for us, the community, to live in. Yet here we see MA acting like a gov't. They are saying they need to pass laws in order to protect the citizens from dishonest traders.

I'm sure that in the long run MA's actions are for the good of us all. Yet, I feel troubled by the move. Hopefully we won't see more of this.

It seems that EF should shut down and lock many of the services threads that offer loans as now they are seen as 'scamming' attempts.
 
They cant differentiate, which is why its such a dodgy Grey ruling.

Which is also the reason they need to impliment the option of Non secure loan...that way everyone knows where they stand (and alternative, perhaps safer options) and only has themselves to blame if it goes wrong.

Really, its so simple to impliment :eureka:

It seems MA have protected 99% of the players by outlawing non-secure loans by making 99% of players accounts insecure :deal:

LOL, go figure that :)
 
Other question is , who will be the first to make a poll and ask if anshe service violate new rule ?
 
Other question is , who will be the first to make a poll and ask if anshe service violate new rule ?

Ummm, correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Anshe hold a banking license, thus how would that contradict this announcement about banking operations?
:confused:
 
Recently MindArk PE AB issued official virtual banking licenses. blah, blah, blah, are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.
okay, i get this part. if you have a liscence it is safe.

By contrast, loan services offered outside this official bank system cannot be guaranteed by MindArk. If an item is exchanged between avatars, this transaction will be logged as a regular TRADE. And as all trades are final, MindArk will not investigate claims if a loan giving avatar refuses to return items or money.Many people do not fully understand the true value of their virtual items until they are lost. They will then contact MindArk PE AB for assistance and will realize that we cannot help them; this can cause a lot of unnecessary grief and frustration.
SO WHAT! since when has MA cared about trades anyway? i think people that will use the non-purchased banks understand the risk they take and a matter of fact, the LENDERS seem more at risk than the lendee. so, MA is sticking their nose into something they really didn't have to and never cared about before.

We do not wish to discourage entrepreneurship within Entropia Universe, but based on experiences from community feedback and support case history, unfortunately not all entrepreneurs offering loaning services are trustworthy members of the Entropia Universe and therefore we need to be strict in our policies in order to protect the community from scams and cheating.
again, who cares if someone is unscrupulous. they never did before?

Therefore, any loan services offered outside the approved bank system will be considered by MindArk as scam attempts and the avatar offering such services risk a permanent lockdown of his/her account.
oh, so that is the meat of the message. however real scam attempts aren't regulated or enforced. this has got to be the biggest load of horseshit i have read on this forum yet. IMHO this tops the amp nerf in game or the inablility to name scammers on EF as the lamest new developments recently.
 
you mean there isnt 1 already :naughty:

But it wont be me...personally I think it adds an interesting addition to the EU and as Anshe says "its risky". I wish her the best in her business and I hope it works out for all her investors too.

But lets not change rules to help it along....Anshe was doing fine with the share sales before this farce had evolved.
 
Ummm, correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Anshe hold a banking license, thus how would that contradict this announcement about banking operations?
:confused:

Therefore, any loan services offered outside the approved bank system will be considered by MindArk as scam attempts and the avatar offering such services risk a permanent lockdown of his/her account.

Yes she own a liscence , but all the service she do offer now are out of the aprouved MA system ....
The Share , and trade PED/L$ are both total against the point of the MA last rule.
 
As I said in another thread, MA should protect my investment in my shop by banning all street traders.

coughbullshitcough
 
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