Limited Weapons good or bad?

limited weapons good or bad?

  • I like to use bigger guns when skills are increasing

    Votes: 33 30.6%
  • I hate getting new weapons every time

    Votes: 43 39.8%
  • I refuse to use limited weapons

    Votes: 21 19.4%
  • other (post)

    Votes: 11 10.2%

  • Total voters
    108

LeeLoo Faith

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LeeLoo LeeLoo Faith
I dont like that I have to buy a new weapon every few hunts and ofc the fact that the weapons I am using are the "most wanted" and markup is quite high atm, most weapons go for 130%-150% :eyecrazy:

But on the other hand, while skills are increasing so are the weapons to use and the damage done while hunting. some "upgrades" are quite neat, recently maxxed the APIS and was quite sweet to go hunt with one.

ofc for the economy it is also good that the demand for weapons is steady, so you can sell your crafted or looted weapons ...
 
I dont like that I have to buy a new weapon every few hunts and ofc the fact that the weapons I am using are the "most wanted" and markup is quite high atm, most weapons go for 130%-150% :eyecrazy:

But on the other hand, while skills are increasing so are the weapons to use and the damage done while hunting. some "upgrades" are quite neat, recently maxxed the APIS and was quite sweet to go hunt with one.

ofc for the economy it is also good that the demand for weapons is steady, so you can sell your crafted or looted weapons ...

Other...

I only use limited weapons with effective markup under 101%. Since i am skilling mindforce and i am skilled to use highest lacerating chips - the nanochips are great. For example: lacerating attack nanochip XI (L) at price of 140% has effective markup still under 101% ;). It will be long before they will hit that price imho though and i already have decent stock in my storage (for more than 70k peds cycled hunts) all bought at 101-106% so even though i am using limited items the effetive markup on it is very very small (under 100.20%).

Of course i still like the fact there are limited weapons ingame. And to be honest if it was me who would design game like Entropia i would make all weapons limited - this would stimulate economy much more than all the unlimited weapons we have. Of course some weaposn would have to be avaible at TT but they would also be limited (like Kiwio II) so players who want to hunt bigger would actually have to buy crafted/looted weapons becasue the ones avaible at TT would not be enough for their needs.

Falagor
:bandit:
 
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Limited items were introduced to make mining and crafting useful and to include some markup in hunting. W/o limited items, crafting would be useless (btw which was already proven years ago, when crafters like Auktuma could craft everything that was needed for the community in maybe few hours. Ask him how many ghost parts he has dropped into tt terminal :) ). Same goes for mining, if there is almost nothing to craft, then resources have exactly 0 markup. And same for hunting - 0 markup.



You just cannot drop an unlimited number of unlimited weapons, people will be just throwing them into tt. You may like L items or not, but they are needed for the ped cycle.
 
As you noticed yourself, L items are essential for healthy economy.
Of course we all prefer to have unlimited and just repair from time to time instead of looking for new Ls.
MA seems to have goal to make L items obsolete, just look how many unlimited armors and guns dropped in last half year. This is sad really as this will ultimately backfire and destroy game. With no real way to decrease number of unlimited items (only one was removed - need for second item while tiering) we will get soon flooded. Mark my words.
 
And to be honest if it was me who would design game like Entropia i would make all weapons limited

Falagor
:bandit:

If you were to desing Entropia I would quit the next day
:laugh:
 
voted "I like to use bigger guns when skills are increasing"
at least until you are like lvl 30-40 it seems to me there is no point of going unlimited. reasons why buy UL gun and amp for lvl 5 when next month you will be lvl 10 and want bigger gun/amp. + the MU on the UL weapon will drop + the eco of the limited weapon is better.
But once you deside that you will play for years with only 1 weapon and your proffesions takes months to go up 1 lvl then you can consider going UL.
But playing years with only 1 weapon can be boring and hard to do.
Also if we are talking about low lvl unlimited you loot al the time low lvl limited weapons with better eco that you can't sell easely. So better just use them.
 
Well, we'd all love to have a powerful and eco unlimited weapon. But the fact is that the economy needs L, and it's often the case for most of us that the best choice is L.
 
I hate L shit to the innermost of my pixel heart, but understand that it's good for economy so I've learned to live with it. Even worse - not being a crafter myself, I believe that all L should be removed from loot and be only crafted. Kinda masochism, yep :)

So yes, I hate it and think it's good. How should I vote? :D
 
I hate (L) stuff. That's the reason why i almost always use UL weaponry. Anyway i like eco, so i had to pay a good amount of MU for nice UL SIB stuff.

That being said i think in general (L) is important and necessary for the economy to have consumables.
 
I'm not fond of (l) but do use it. Imo the top range needs to be higher % mu then the midlevel though. 130% - 150% for midlevel is too expensive. Lower price > more burned items > more sales for crafters.
 
the trick is -> use lower % weapons to loot higher % weapons - just sayin :D
 
And to be honest if it was me who would design game like Entropia i would make all weapons limited
So...you would make it Afterworld?
 
The thread title doesn't seem to reflect the poll?:scratch2:
 
I hate L, and see it as loot, not as useable items, how extremely useable they may be. I have to put every L thing I loot on auction, because if I use it, I always think it will break soon. I just cannot seem to shake that thought.
I am jealous of the people who don't have that and seem to walk around in big L armour for almost tt and use L weaponry with L faps. It's just not my game. Luckily we have choice in this universe.
 
So...you would make it Afterworld?

Does afterworld have withdrawal option without depositing even peny into the game? ;)

Falagor
:bandit:
 
I avoid the L gun mark up % by buying UL versions of (L) guns :)
 
I avoid the L gun mark up % by buying UL versions of (L) guns :)

That only works if the markup of the UL stays the same when you sell it. On two UL weapons I've owned, I lost many times more than the (L) markup % when the UL markup crashed.
 
That only works if the markup of the UL stays the same when you sell it. On two UL weapons I've owned, I lost many times more than the (L) markup % when the UL markup crashed.

What weapons were they and when did you buy them? (This is me being curious)

And with most things, you can somewhat predict the trend of the weapon in the near future. However, MA does like to shit on people's doorsteps sometimes and make new, more awesome weapons drop out of no where or via event which eventually leads to crazy depreciation on current UL weapons. Out of the 2 that I've owned, I broke even on one and made 500 ped on the other. I do however, expect to barely break even or maybe lose a little bit when selling my current gun but it will still be much less than the MU I would've spent using L instead.
 
The new line of L weapons from Calypso realy is very eco. I m very happy about it and have no problem in using them.

For example:

Doa Boneshatter L at 150% - 2.867 dmg/pec - 70.95 dmg/sec

Assassin R150 unL (100%) - 2.872 dmg/pec - 57.71 dmg/sec

With both guns using dante amp check the title diference in the dmg/pec but the boneshatter deal 13 more dmg/sec. This with boneshatter at 150%, imagive the eco if it's 145% or lower.

In conclusion I like to use L guns when they can give nice dps with a relative eco.
 
The new line of L weapons from Calypso realy is very eco. I m very happy about it and have no problem in using them.

For example:

Doa Boneshatter L at 150% - 2.867 dmg/pec - 70.95 dmg/sec

Assassin R150 unL (100%) - 2.872 dmg/pec - 57.71 dmg/sec

With both guns using dante amp check the title diference in the dmg/pec but the boneshatter deal 13 more dmg/sec. This with boneshatter at 150%, imagive the eco if it's 145% or lower.

In conclusion I like to use L guns when they can give nice dps with a relative eco.

Comparing a DOA Boneshatter and R150 isn't a good comparison though (DPS wise) because the boneshatter requires level 55 whereas the R150 requires 34.1 for SIB.

Edit: However, I see the point you are making that even with high MU, the eco can be the same as an affordable mid-level UL gun
 
Even worse - not being a crafter myself, I believe that all L should be removed from loot and be only crafted.

How would hunting generate MU then? Miners would sell ores to crafters for MU, Crafters would pass that MU on hunters by selling weapons, and hunters would be royally shafted ;)
 
How would hunting generate MU then? Miners would sell ores to crafters for MU, Crafters would pass that MU on hunters by selling weapons, and hunters would be royally shafted ;)

I guess crafters use other materials too besides ores, and with less looted equipment the demand for crafted stuff will rise and so will the demand and MU on our loot. Or they don't use looted materials at all? Then it should be changed :)
 
Or they don't use looted materials at all? Then it should be changed :)

They do use other stuff, but a lot of it is either low MU and/or needs stacking for a long time to make worth selling. Nice thing about looting a bigger item like a gun is that it can go straight onto auction.

Not saying it'd be impossible to do, but there'd need to be a lot of changes before it could work in a well-balanced way.
 
They do use other stuff, but a lot of it is either low MU and/or needs stacking for a long time to make worth selling. Nice thing about looting a bigger item like a gun is that it can go straight onto auction.

Not saying it'd be impossible to do, but there'd need to be a lot of changes before it could work in a well-balanced way.

Imo they just need to add a new sort of loot that all mobs drop (except punies) that will be a stackable but a rare enough stackable so the MU on it will be good. And then all crafted weapons (the bigger ones at least) would need X amount of this stackable to craft that weapon (a rebalance might be needed for the ingredients). This way the MU for hunters will be the same. If not even better than now.
This rare stackable can be like 1 = 5-10 ped TT. So there's the possibility of dropping one from mini's and a few from globals.
 
thx to all for sharing your thoughts, seems many ppl dont really like that their guns break always but got used to it or accepted it because it is needed for the economy :)

For example: lacerating attack nanochip XI (L) at price of 140% has effective markup still under 101% ;).

with effective markup you mean the price to use it, ie. hunting costs?

Limited items were introduced to make mining and crafting useful and to include some markup in hunting. W/o limited items, crafting would be useless (btw which was already proven years ago, when crafters like Auktuma could craft everything that was needed for the community in maybe few hours. Ask him how many ghost parts he has dropped into tt terminal :) ). Same goes for mining, if there is almost nothing to craft, then resources have exactly 0 markup. And same for hunting - 0 markup.
You just cannot drop an unlimited number of unlimited weapons, people will be just throwing them into tt. You may like L items or not, but they are needed for the ped cycle.

yep.. ask old time hunters how many A101 and A102 amps or low lvl weapons they tt-ed ;)

voted "I like to use bigger guns when skills are increasing"
at least until you are like lvl 30-40 it seems to me there is no point of going unlimited. reasons why buy UL gun and amp for lvl 5 when next month you will be lvl 10 and want bigger gun/amp. + the MU on the UL weapon will drop + the eco of the limited weapon is better.
But once you deside that you will play for years with only 1 weapon and your proffesions takes months to go up 1 lvl then you can consider going UL.
But playing years with only 1 weapon can be boring and hard to do.
Also if we are talking about low lvl unlimited you loot al the time low lvl limited weapons with better eco that you can't sell easely. So better just use them.

yeah lol, especially in the start UL is no option at all

I hate L shit to the innermost of my pixel heart, but understand that it's good for economy so I've learned to live with it. Even worse - not being a crafter myself, I believe that all L should be removed from loot and be only crafted. Kinda masochism, yep :)
So yes, I hate it and think it's good. How should I vote? :D

How would hunting generate MU then? Miners would sell ores to crafters for MU, Crafters would pass that MU on hunters by selling weapons, and hunters would be royally shafted ;)

If no L items would drop from loot then at least more of the ingredients should be dropped by hunting imho
 
i think in the end, L killed off Project Entropia as it was. not L directly itself but the shift it created and the lack of coherence in its implementation.

there are far too many L weapons, both in range of choice and numbers. this means that most provide little reward for the hunter or miner, but at the same time most need them to be economical (though my experience the eco isnt notable, others say differently). meanwhile in trying to force the L upon us unL was effectivly removed from the game. no longer could you go hunting on the hope of looting yourself gear to improve your avatar. it was a hope for a big cash pay out, an ESI or a L weapon, the latter which you'd probably have to cycle yourself or cover the markup of another L item purchase. a few unL versions of the new L items kept our hope ticking over, but they seems to have gone too.
 
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by FalagorFor example: lacerating attack nanochip XI (L) at price of 140% has effective markup still under 101% ;).



with effective markup you mean the price to use it, ie. hunting costs?

By effective markup i mean the average markup based on (decay*markup + amo) / (decay + amo).

For example using any melee weapon that i buy at 102% the effective markup for it is 102% (exception is melee that uses amo).
Another example explaining what i mean - Lacerating Attack Nanochip XI (L) at 105%:
  • Chip decays 0.498 pec per shoot (with markup 105% its 0.5229 pec)
  • Implant decays 0.010 pec per shoot (with markup 100%)
  • Synthetic ME used per shoot 20.280 pec (with markup 100%)
This means that:
  • total TT cost per use is 20.788pec per shoot
  • total cost including markup per use is 20.8129 pec per shoot

20.8129/20.788 = 1.001197... =~= 100.12% effective markup

This means that with Lacerating Nano XI (L) at 105% for every 1000.00ped of total TT cost made i will pay 1.20ped in markup.
With the melee at 102% example for every 1000.00ped of total TT cost made i would pay 20.00ped in markup.

Makes quite a difference thats why i really do not like limited melee ;).

-----

Why this matters to me: becasue i really do not belive that dmg/pec when counting TT (without markup) matters at all. All my logs i have show that no matter if i use "eco" or "uneco" weapons or let mob regen or no - i always end up with 90%+ TT returns no matter what. Thats why i set myself a limit of 101% effective markup ;) - i can live with 1% loss of returns. This means that game is badly desgined becasue there is really no point in using limited items (becasue any markup is lost).

Falagor
:bandit:
 
Other

This is a mixed bag poll.

When I first started playing - (L) was great as each time my gun ran out I was just about ready for the next gun up . The Korss h400 was the first weapon I had to buy more than once.

Now I get annoyed having to buy the same gun over and over again. I have bought an xent 3 so that i always have a maxed weapon to use. I also keep a Karma Killer and CAP TTr which I love

However I still use (L) weapons when I am on big stuff and (UL) for grinding missions. I still like the thrill of maxing out a new weapon and and will soon be able to buy my first omegaton Igni L1011 which I have been waiting for since Christmas. Lvl 35 laser pistol and L34 ranged laser damage, I could buy it now but i can be patient when I want to be and wioll wait till i can max it when I get to L£% ranged Laser Damage.

Incidentally if anyone would like to comment on how uneco it would be for me to use the L1011 now I would be interested. If I understand correctly the L1010 is still a better bet until I max the L1011.

Comments are welcome
 
I voted "I hate getting new weapons every time." :mad:

I want to log in, kill things and loot them. I don't want to stand around the shop can looking at the auction interface calculating dpp on MU % on L items trying to decide which is the better of the lousy options available knowing I'm going to have to do it all over again the next time I log in to go for a spin around the Eviscerator spawn.

I come from the repair era, not the disposable era, I despise this L crap.

I would prefer to buy one weapon in each of the DPS ranges I want to skill in so that I can use them efficiently and skill up with them over time.

I have chosen to level up Laser Pistol because I dream of owning a Mod Merc, and IMK2 one day, so I want the laser skills to max those professions. I need to skill up to be efficient using them. Right now, I'm lvl 66 Laser Pistol (Hit), so I have a long way to go to max them at lvl 100. I don't want to switch horses mid-stream and use BLP because there are more BLP options available, it just seems stupid that there are no options available for me that I would have to do that.

Since they have introduced SIB now, I have to "climb the SIB ladder" the problem is, there are not any Laser Pistol options available on the market around the 50 dps level for me to buy for a reasonable (to me) price, in fact there are NONE available right now. For what ever reason, MA has restricted the drops of options like HL15 which would be perfect for me, so they are "artificially" rare, nobody wants to sell them, and if they do they are artificially high priced, or only for sale at a "Make me an offer I can't refuse" kind of fuck you price. Or they will rent them if I have CLD collateral, fuck that, I'm not buying over priced CLDs so I can go through the hassle of trying to coordinate renting from someone who may or may not be in my time zone.

So, I'm forced to pay high markup prices for L items in order to keep "playing." Enjoy it while you can L item crafters. I may either decide to say fuck it because its not worth the hassle anymore to continue buying this L shit, in which "the game" looses my deposits, or I decide to "invest" in a less than optimal non-sib work around which are over priced and will cost me too much to buy and will cost me too much in non-eco operating costs, neither are good options. So, I'm not very pleased with the UL SIB weapon progression options available right now. I guess they have a place for some people, but if I haven't made myself clear yet, as far as I'm concerned, FUCK L.
 
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I voted "I hate getting new weapons every time." :mad:

I want to log in, kill things and loot them. I don't want to stand around the shop can looking at the auction interface calculating dpp on MU % on L items trying to decide which is the better of the lousy options available knowing I'm going to have to do it all over again the next time I log in to go for a spin around the Eviscerator spawn.

I come from the repair era, not the disposable era, I despise this L crap.

I would prefer to buy one weapon in each of the DPS ranges I want to skill in so that I can use them efficiently and skill up with them over time.

I have chosen to level up Laser Pistol because I dream of owning a Mod Merc, and IMK2 one day, so I want the laser skills to max those professions. I need to skill up to be efficient using them. Right now, I'm lvl 66 Laser Pistol (Hit), so I have a long way to go to max them at lvl 100. I don't want to switch horses mid-stream and use BLP because there are more BLP options available, it just seems stupid that there are no options available for me that I would have to do that.

Since they have introduced SIB now, I have to "climb the SIB ladder" the problem is, there are not any Laser Pistol options available on the market around the 50 dps level for me to buy for a reasonable (to me) price, in fact there are NONE available right now. For what ever reason, MA has restricted the drops of options like HL15 which would be perfect for me, so they are "artificially" rare, nobody wants to sell them, and if they do they are artificially high priced, or only for sale at a "Make me an offer I can't refuse" kind of fuck you price. Or they will rent them if I have CLD collateral, fuck that, I'm not buying over priced CLDs so I can go through the hassle of trying to coordinate renting from someone who may or may not be in my time zone.

So, I'm forced to pay high markup prices for L items in order to keep "playing." Enjoy it while you can L item crafters. I may either decide to say fuck it because its not worth the hassle anymore to continue buying this L shit, in which "the game" looses my deposits, or I decide to "invest" in a less than optimal non-sib work around which are over priced and will cost me too much to buy and will cost me too much in non-eco operating costs, neither are good options. So, I'm not very pleased with the UL SIB weapon progression options available right now. I guess they have a place for some people, but if I haven't made myself clear yet, as far as I'm concerned, FUCK L.

Bravo! Goddamn that was awesome. I wanted to rep you but "i have to spread more rep first" So instead, here is Picard clapping.
29490-Picard-applause-clapping-gif-s5nz.gif
 
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