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How Base DPP Affects Your Loot

watching these discussions have been quite amusing :D
 
Rocket192 said:
Precisely my point. Dpp just might help a bit, but turnover, dps, time, location, and mob all factor in. Grinding bad mobs with good dpp and nothing else won't necessary yield positive results.
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You forgot. Inner info helps too :smoke:
 
Rocket192 said:
Hunting itself is broken so idgaf anymore really.
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I did another taming run to test my sanity with my unlimited adjusted bolga (10/10) two days ago, and economically it simply is not worth continuing with it. The negative results do not improve.

Now considering I pump a lot of peds into my pets with no return, and assuming the system might return at least tt on food (I'm sure the system used to do that), I would've expected better results.

I'm at this crossroads where I do not trust "any weapon at all". I think you're right there's been a huge change "something is broken", I don't know what it is or how to get reasonable return. I listen to my soc mates burning through some big deposits and it just reinforces my view to avoid risking it.

When trust and confidence is not there, it's either logoff or try something else. So I continue to train my dragons, until I hear something under the hood has been fixed. It's boring yes, but at least it has the xp counter that somehow can be quite satisfying when setting personal targets

I did have faith that maybe the new adjusted Maddox of EP-41 might be the saviour just for "reasonable return", but if the adjusted melee is not playing fair, is it really worth paying a lot of money for said weapon, and then possibly be disappointed? There's the paradox.

It's a shame, I'll just say that.

But whatever; people will now jump down my throat, but that's not going to change either my confidence or trust. Addiction can make you roll the dice but only to a point, confidence and trust that the light ahead is "on" is hugely important psychologically.

Good luck out there.

Rick
 
Detritus said:
Ok I stand corrected, I didn't see the third installment of the dev notes. It does indeed seem fairly explicit there.
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With an important note, if you say you've read so much on entropedia: there are tiers and within your tier of, say, 5 dps will not compete with someone shooting 4k ped a day with 3+ dpp. Because what would barely look like a mini to that person (say 30 ped), for you could mean bread & butter for 2 days. Rather try to be aware what is happening within your tier and don't feel discouraged if the game forces you, let's say, to 2.5 dpp until lvl 10 (numbers pulled strictly from my back). Your fellow starters are in same position and you should build advantage toward them.

It gets really frustrating over smth like lvl 50 when you approach same dps as big guys and then you must deffinitely need to be more and more aware of your dpp (and everything which affects indirectly your results like evade/armor/mob attach frequency/type of damage and a bazillion of other things).
 
Kerham said:
With an important note, if you say you've read so much on entropedia: there are tiers and within your tier of, say, 5 dps will not compete with someone shooting 4k ped a day with 3+ dpp. Because what would barely look like a mini to that person (say 30 ped), for you could mean bread & butter for 2 days. Rather try to be aware what is happening within your tier and don't feel discouraged if the game forces you, let's say, to 2.5 dpp until lvl 10 (numbers pulled strictly from my back). Your fellow starters are in same position and you should build advantage toward them.

It gets really frustrating over smth like lvl 50 when you approach same dps as big guys and then you must deffinitely need to be more and more aware of your dpp (and everything which affects indirectly your results like evade/armor/mob attach frequency/type of damage and a bazillion of other things).
Click to expand...

So yeah you find yourself in a position that something you didn't have to buy you now need to use. The big question is how far the goal posts have moved.

Is it:

You must use enhancers or die
You must use pills or die.
You must have mod+ rings.
You must have adjusted armours
You must use mod amp
You must use mod armour plates
You must buy a weapon over 20K market value

It didn't used to be so bad back in the day, because you only had to consider that someone might have a better gun or armour, but now there's so many add-ons, it almost impossible to assess where those goal posts have been moved.

Maybe as you say that only effects higher levels, so what's the message now. We are forced to chip down?

Rick
 
RickEngland said:
So yeah you find yourself in a position that something you didn't have to buy you now need to use. The big question is how far the goal posts have moved.

Is it:

You must use enhancers or die
You must use pills or die.
You must have mod+ rings.
You must have adjusted armours
You must use mod amp
You must use mod armour plates
You must buy a weapon over 20K market value

It didn't used to be so bad back in the day, because you only had to consider that someone might have a better gun or armour, but now there's so many add-ons, it almost impossible to assess where those goal posts have been moved.

Maybe as you say that only effects higher levels, so what's the message now. We are forced to chip down?

Rick
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Cmon Rick, "back in the day" it was waaaaaay worse! Mid level players were blocked and frustrated as there were no real options. The cost of setting up these days with a nice selection of weapons, armour and buff items will be much less than one gun with a 200 or 300k price tag. Personally I love all the different options available these days, but hey, I'm a glass half full kinda guy ?
 
cc. said:
Cmon Rick, "back in the day" it was waaaaaay worse! Mid level players were blocked and frustrated as there were no real options. The cost of setting up these days with a nice selection of weapons, armour and buff items will be much less than one gun with a 200 or 300k price tag. Personally I love all the different options available these days, but hey, I'm a glass half full kinda guy ?
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Ditto i dont see the game that way my self too.
Ive played since ml35 was 30k gun and it was bottle necked and there was nowhere to go for low lvl.

When apis was new they was selling at 290% ffs just cos people want to fill in the gaps.

Now you can tweak your account every little bit to become better.
Iam tweaked for dpp from range but i take uneccesary costs when doing mobs that hit fast and hard.
Instead of me needing a 160k+ fap i can get closer in multiple ways with all new options( mod 5b,mod reschip,adj armors and so on) where i can buy a couple of parts upgrading in pace i like.
 
cc. said:
Cmon Rick, "back in the day" it was waaaaaay worse! Mid level players were blocked and frustrated as there were no real options. The cost of setting up these days with a nice selection of weapons, armour and buff items will be much less than one gun with a 200 or 300k price tag. Personally I love all the different options available these days, but hey, I'm a glass half full kinda guy ��
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We're all half full type of players, otherwise we wouldn't be here at all....smiles.

You could do a lot with punisher or Justifier-mkII back in the day if unl, and the downside was manageable for the input cost over time. Damn; I ran valour swords for a long while before the 10/10 rules came in after the PP pushed eco stuff and killed off the caly standard weapons. Maybe the gazz of drones, offset the under 10/10 issues.

Let's not forget the LR series (L) with A105 was pretty nice setup, and you could loot loads of the buggers, so it didn't matter they were L.

It's different game for sure, might not need 200K gun but do need 200K bankroll. Then again that guy that got 300K ATH, went for the huge big bank roll input. Where's he gone now (smiles again). Knowledge is not always an advantage when ones mind is full of history.

Yay it's almost the weekend. Happy hunting....and pet training :)

Rick
 
Kerham said:
With an important note, if you say you've read so much on entropedia: there are tiers and within your tier of, say, 5 dps will not compete with someone shooting 4k ped a day with 3+ dpp. Because what would barely look like a mini to that person (say 30 ped), for you could mean bread & butter for 2 days. Rather try to be aware what is happening within your tier and don't feel discouraged if the game forces you, let's say, to 2.5 dpp until lvl 10 (numbers pulled strictly from my back). Your fellow starters are in same position and you should build advantage toward them.

It gets really frustrating over smth like lvl 50 when you approach same dps as big guys and then you must deffinitely need to be more and more aware of your dpp (and everything which affects indirectly your results like evade/armor/mob attach frequency/type of damage and a bazillion of other things).
Click to expand...


I appreciate the perspective, and that does make sense. I have been trying so hard to max out my DPP but it's tough as a noob. It should have dawned on me that others at my level are in the same boat.

This doesn't give me much confidence for my future with the game though, since I won't be able to throw down the amount of currency that seems to be required for success at higher levels.

So, I guess MindArk's paradigm is to slowly filter out people based on their spending ability as they progress in the game. Essentially you either just stay at a level you can afford until you get bored and quit or spend a big stack of cash to proceed.

What's bizarre to me is seeing that at the highest levels, players with the most capital can actually come out ahead and avoid depositing. Basically, MindArk has given their biggest potential depositors the ability to not have to deposit. I don't really understand the business model, but what do I know.
 
You can still do well in EU without a massive ped card.. you just have to be that much more careful as to how you hunt, what you hunt, where, and when.

With a massive ped card you can turnover an incredibly sick amount of cash daily and grind for 8-10 hours and get a TT profit... even without imk2..

Less ped and less skills means you have to play smarter. I can run around grinding indoor mining 8 hours a day and manage a TT profit because I cycle more ped faster than anyone else, thus my chances for by hofs are better than other's chances.

What Messi preaches might be true: you only lose if you stop shooting

Better dpp is just lower cost to grind before hitting big hofs.
 
Detritus said:
What's bizarre to me is seeing that at the highest levels, players with the most capital can actually come out ahead and avoid depositing. Basically, MindArk has given their biggest potential depositors the ability to not have to deposit. I don't really understand the business model, but what do I know.
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So does life too :) Most capital is not enough. The more you grow in skill, you have access to better dpp, but this is not the whole story.

The most common scenario is that skills grow faster than your bankroll. Depending on the habits you develop, at top tier this can (and it happens extremely frequent) transform into a no-return way, where with enough mismanagement, you can go through a daily deposit of 100$ at ease.

It is correct that the game does offer this opportunity of growing both as capital and skills such as to not deposit ever or every deposit to be investition (CLD and the likes) without an actual need to increase the bankroll. But this is also getting harder and harder the more you advance. I mean to say, for someone going through 4k ped a day, a bad day can mean minus 2k. In the correct (actually in the wrong) situation, this can be the need for a new deposit. Three days like this (and is a common scenario to have such a spell) and you're beyond what a reasonable average west-european might consider for monthly entertainment.

Shortly put, do not envy them until you're not in their shoes to understand which are their difficulties.
 
Rocket192 said:
You can still do well in EU without a massive ped card.. you just have to be that much more careful as to how you hunt, what you hunt, where, and when.

With a massive ped card you can turnover an incredibly sick amount of cash daily and grind for 8-10 hours and get a TT profit... even without imk2..

Less ped and less skills means you have to play smarter. I can run around grinding indoor mining 8 hours a day and manage a TT profit because I cycle more ped faster than anyone else, thus my chances for by hofs are better than other's chances.

What Messi preaches might be true: you only lose if you stop shooting
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Good to know.

One additional take-away from all of these threads I've read is that most of the success stories are from players who (bankroll aside) spend a lot of consecutive hours in-game. You, for example, mining 8 hours a day. For those of us who can't play the game as a second job, is there any hope? Does the game punish players who only want to drop in and hunt for an hour?
 
Detritus said:
Good to know.

You, for example, mining 8 hours a day. For those of us who can't play the game as a second job, is there any hope? Does the game punish players who only want to drop in and hunt for an hour?
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Short answer, yes.

Long answer: the game doesn't intend to punish, it just does so by design. Someone who plays 8-hours a day will still have shit returns if they hop around everywhere and aren't lucky enough to catch a wave on the right mob at the right time and place.

Not grinding for hours on end just makes catching those waves more difficult, thus you're left with 90-95% return. The players who beat those returns, gear aside, are either the ones who grind forever, or have good knowledge of when a certain mob or area is "hot"
 
Aio said:
This was not a recent change. You've been playing the same (or very similar) loot system since you started.
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Last two pages worth of posts have been really good, keep it up! I agree with rocket all the way.

DPP model was definitely introduced recently with the amount of implementations made by MA.
 
M Rufen Power said:
Last two pages worth of posts have been really good, keep it up! I agree with rocket all the way.

DPP model was definitely introduced recently with the amount of implementations made by MA.
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The loot system seemed to be entirely re-worked at the onset of the shrapnel VU. 90% became a thing of the past for many players after that.

I'd say it's gotten more player vs playerbase than it has ever been. Hence the reason for needing good knowledge, big bankroll, and gear appropriate to your circumstances. I hate to say it, but players hunting 4-5 ped mobs on a 1-3k bankroll typically hunt, lose their ped to bad returns after a couple of hours, and then log off. EU pays for consistency, and had that player had a 10k bankroll and he kept shooting the same mob for 4-5 hours each day for a week, he'd probably be closer to 100% return.

This is how players get stuck into a perpetually depositing state, always thinking their big one will come, when in reality their lost ped went to the grinder sitting on that same 4-5 ped mob for days.

EU does not support hunting above your bankroll and punishes inconsistent behaviors.
 
Rocket192 said:
The loot system seemed to be entirely re-worked at the onset of the shrapnel VU. 90% became a thing of the past for many players after that.

I'd say it's gotten more player vs playerbase than it has ever been. Hence the reason for needing good knowledge, big bankroll, and gear appropriate to your circumstances. I hate to say it, but players hunting 4-5 ped mobs on a 1-3k bankroll typically hunt, lose their ped to bad returns after a couple of hours, and then log off. EU pays for consistency, and had that player had a 10k bankroll and he kept shooting the same mob for 4-5 hours each day for a week, he'd probably be closer to 100% return.

This is how players get stuck into a perpetually depositing state, always thinking their big one will come, when in reality their lost ped went to the grinder sitting on that same 4-5 ped mob for days.

EU does not support hunting above your bankroll and punishes inconsistent behaviors.
Click to expand...


Also great information, thanks again. This might explain my relatively poor returns so far. I've been doing all of the low level mission chains, and out of ignorance (and desire for variety), I've been bouncing around a lot. I'll hunt a couple hundred of one mob, then do another mob, and so forth. It sounds like the best approach is to just keep on a single mob for say a week or two, or maybe even complete the chain for that one mob before moving to the next.
 
M Rufen Power said:
Last two pages worth of posts have been really good, keep it up! I agree with rocket all the way.

DPP model was definitely introduced recently with the amount of implementations made by MA.
Click to expand...

No, no it wasnt. The bar was just moved.
 
99% of whats been said in this thread I disagree with. Especially I disagree with people that claim they know it all but all they do is guessing and state it like its facts.
 
Detritus said:
Also great information, thanks again. This might explain my relatively poor returns so far. I've been doing all of the low level mission chains, and out of ignorance (and desire for variety), I've been bouncing around a lot. I'll hunt a couple hundred of one mob, then do another mob, and so forth. It sounds like the best approach is to just keep on a single mob for say a week or two, or maybe even complete the chain for that one mob before moving to the next.
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Camping as it's called doesn't guarantee anything.

I did 10K sumina, night after night, same for scips mission and rex etc.

If the system wants to pay that mob it will, but if it's dead for loot, it might not pay a decent hof even if you're on it for "weeks".

One of my frustrations was forced hunting on the mobs MA wanted us to hunt. It seems every mobs has its moment in the sun. Goes for LA's too, specially if they're offering big prizes, because MA will help them hit those targets to payout.

You could argue same for deeds, such as the Underground. If it has had a rough few payouts, MA will show it some love. If someone bought a LA, they might be shown some love too.

I'd agree that if you get yourself in the zone all-in and just keep shooting you've got a high chance of hitting some decent ped returns. It can go the other way though, if MA turn off events like MM or migration near the end then taking the same all-in approach can clean your card no matter what you do.

The issue is more self control, if you're still pushing on a mob that MA has switched off for returns your going to get burned badly. If you force yourself on the next mob MA wants you to hunt, you can do aright.

One things for sure, just when you think you've cracked it, you get a nasty shock...lol.

Rick
 
Rocket192 said:
Short answer, yes.

Long answer: the game doesn't intend to punish, it just does so by design. Someone who plays 8-hours a day will still have shit returns if they hop around everywhere and aren't lucky enough to catch a wave on the right mob at the right time and place.

Not grinding for hours on end just makes catching those waves more difficult, thus you're left with 90-95% return. The players who beat those returns, gear aside, are either the ones who grind forever, or have good knowledge of when a certain mob or area is "hot"
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you hav 27k in tracker,yet you state your opinion like its an actual proven fact
 
All of these loot theories leave out what I believe is a very important factor in this game: luck.
 
atomicstorm said:
His prism is from his mining grinding.
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so then he assumes mining and hunting works the same way,
im not saying he cant be right(though my experience tells me otherwise),but its an opinion and not an fact

maybe im biased but if someone with say over 2 million in tracker comments on lootsystem im more inclined to take it seriously ;)
 
Rocket192 said:
The loot system seemed to be entirely re-worked at the onset of the shrapnel VU. 90% became a thing of the past for many players after that.

I'd say it's gotten more player vs playerbase than it has ever been. Hence the reason for needing good knowledge, big bankroll, and gear appropriate to your circumstances. I hate to say it, but players hunting 4-5 ped mobs on a 1-3k bankroll typically hunt, lose their ped to bad returns after a couple of hours, and then log off. EU pays for consistency, and had that player had a 10k bankroll and he kept shooting the same mob for 4-5 hours each day for a week, he'd probably be closer to 100% return.

This is how players get stuck into a perpetually depositing state, always thinking their big one will come, when in reality their lost ped went to the grinder sitting on that same 4-5 ped mob for days.

EU does not support hunting above your bankroll and punishes inconsistent behaviors.
Click to expand...

Yep that is exactly when things changed on the VU of the explosives, irony lol.

Rocket192 said:
The loot system seemed to be entirely re-worked at the onset of the shrapnel VU. 90% became a thing of the past for many players after that.

I'd say it's gotten more player vs playerbase than it has ever been. Hence the reason for needing good knowledge, big bankroll, and gear appropriate to your circumstances. I hate to say it, but players hunting 4-5 ped mobs on a 1-3k bankroll typically hunt, lose their ped to bad returns after a couple of hours, and then log off. EU pays for consistency, and had that player had a 10k bankroll and he kept shooting the same mob for 4-5 hours each day for a week, he'd probably be closer to 100% return.

This is how players get stuck into a perpetually depositing state, always thinking their big one will come, when in reality their lost ped went to the grinder sitting on that same 4-5 ped mob for days.

EU does not support hunting above your bankroll and punishes inconsistent behaviors.
Click to expand...

Very good post! Cant rep anymore though :/.

RickEngland said:
Camping as it's called doesn't guarantee anything.

I did 10K sumina, night after night, same for scips mission and rex etc.

If the system wants to pay that mob it will, but if it's dead for loot, it might not pay a decent hof even if you're on it for "weeks".

One of my frustrations was forced hunting on the mobs MA wanted us to hunt. It seems every mobs has its moment in the sun. Goes for LA's too, specially if they're offering big prizes, because MA will help them hit those targets to payout.

You could argue same for deeds, such as the Underground. If it has had a rough few payouts, MA will show it some love. If someone bought a LA, they might be shown some love too.

I'd agree that if you get yourself in the zone all-in and just keep shooting you've got a high chance of hitting some decent ped returns. It can go the other way though, if MA turn off events like MM or migration near the end then taking the same all-in approach can clean your card no matter what you do.

The issue is more self control, if you're still pushing on a mob that MA has switched off for returns your going to get burned badly. If you force yourself on the next mob MA wants you to hunt, you can do aright.

One things for sure, just when you think you've cracked it, you get a nasty shock...lol.

Rick
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Did you care to ask if the mob you were hunting was being hunted by a large following? Player participation is one of the major factors with mobs not paying out imo.
 
fluske said:
so then he assumes mining and hunting works the same way,
im not saying he cant be right(though my experience tells me otherwise),but its an opinion and not an fact

maybe im biased but if someone with say over 2 million in tracker comments on lootsystem im more inclined to take it seriously ;)
Click to expand...

Being as this system is closed, we can only base our perceptions from the experience paradox.. our data inputs. No one is going to agree with everything said here but I would caution folks to not ignore the underlining premise of this thread.
 
krogfan said:
99% of whats been said in this thread I disagree with. Especially I disagree with people that claim they know it all but all they do is guessing and state it like its facts.
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You've stated that you disagree but not offered any counter argument. I would certainly like to hear your thoughts on the subject.
 
atomicstorm said:
Being as this system is closed, we can only base our perceptions from the experience paradox.. our data inputs. No one is going to agree with everything said here but I would caution folks to not ignore the underlining premise of this thread.
Click to expand...

Everyone is free to believe whatever they want.

My perspective may be from mining more than anything. I've spent some months grinding hunting but never long enough to state something for fact. I can only use my own observations.

That being said. I hopped around in august mining on many different planets, mixing indoors and outdoors and lost a lot of ped.

I've done very well in EU for the last 4 years, so I'm going to continue doing what I do. Stating my observations is my right. You can disagree with me that's fine. Like a viewer on my stream recently who kept insisting that perception theory is true. Idgaf if it's true or not. I'm succeeding using my data and observations..

People can listen, agree, disagree, or ignore me.. won't hurt my profits one bit.

For people disagreeing about the grinding factor go check out black Caesar's kerb log. He doesn't have great dpp, but still better than the average kerb hunter, and he grinds through losses when others would stop. And he TT profits... ironically the same % of long term TT returns that my mining logs show.
 
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krogfan said:
99% of whats been said in this thread I disagree with. Especially I disagree with people that claim they know it all but all they do is guessing and state it like its facts.
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thank you! There is so much bs in this thread its unbelivable :D

There are nuggets of truth but largely its alot of misconceptions, fasehoods and ignorance.
I have never claimed to know it all or even understand the system enough to take advantage of the loopholes.
But i cant deny that DPP does have a place in eu but i strongy deny that it is relevant in all aspects of hunting. I know you are aware of this linzey as a heavy user of both high dpp and low dpp :)

Im done trying to open people eyes when they have them firlmy glued shut.
 
sidxx said:
thank you! There is so much bs in this thread its unbelivable :D

There are nuggets of truth but largely its alot of misconceptions, fasehoods and ignorance.
I have never claimed to know it all or even understand the system enough to take advantage of the loopholes.
But i cant deny that DPP does have a place in eu but i strongy deny that it is relevant in all aspects of hunting. I know you are aware of this linzey as a heavy user of both high dpp and low dpp :)

Im done trying to open people eyes when they have them firlmy glued shut.
Click to expand...

Every statement I have made about DPP including the test used is that dpp is only a small part of a large puzzle.. I think you're confusing my statements, or maybe you're not referring to my comments.
 
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