The loot 2.0 return, risk/reward and whole economy thing topic

DuckiX

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Apr 13, 2019
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Jan DuckiX Sobek
Hello,

I was thinking about this for long while. I will try to explain what is on my mind in the most raw way I can.


I did play for a year now (after a break), with some serious hours and decent peds cycled. I managed to cover my expenses by hunting/crafting for MU and also by trading. Meanwhile I was never expecting from the game to pay me more than I put it, I have to say, that my mindset is/was to break even from trading/generating MU. And at some point, I would get some little luck-boost from the game, which would help me to progress, update my gear etc.

That unfortunately never happened. And I do not really think ive done something right or wrong, I simply think, that this is a stage where the game is right now. Its game where you pay from 2 to 10% on whatever you cycle and that's it. No surprises, no excitements. When you finally hit something bigger, its in fact just a small payback. Never anything to boost you up at some point.

Patiently waiting for long time, fighting to break even, depo from time to time, I have to say... damn its great concept, but its hell damn boring.

No rare items, no multipliers to boost anyone anywhere at any point. Doesn't matter how hard I am trying to think at the moment, if game gave me any sort of push up... cant remember. Its just blank 90%-95% return on players actions, that's it. No hype, boring.
 
this was the game since 2006 till they added buffs , what was the difference we had some markup
 
I believe the players asked for less volatility. And thats what we got. :(
 
I believe the players asked for less volatility. And thats what we got. :(

Players didnt really ask for less volatility.
Players asked for more playtime for less money.

But this is NOT what loot 2.0 brought.
 
Hehe, I know your plight. It is the same plight of many.

...Things are in motion. The game we deserve is coming in time lol

Its a gradual thing...
 
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Players didnt really ask for less volatility.
Players asked for more playtime for less money.


But this is NOT what loot 2.0 brought.

So your idea is more playtime and more volatility at the same time? How should it work? Please explain...
 
So your idea is more playtime and more volatility at the same time? How should it work? Please explain...

Try reading my post again and point me where I said that.
 
Here's where the loot is:


If you want to hit big, you gotta hunt big.
 
Try reading my post again and point me where I said that.

I read it once again and you literally said that players asked for more playtime instead of less volatility :scratch2:
 
this was the game since 2006 till they added buffs , what was the difference we had some markup

You must have played a different game. I remember looting a lot of unlimited armor parts/guns/ped/fun stuff, instead of crapnel and animal oils and crappy L stuff.

for example unlimited nemesis shins and ewe ep-21 and freand Beta and a kango mask.

gcs00053zp.jpg
 
I read it once again and you literally said that players asked for more playtime instead of less volatility :scratch2:

reading is hard.
Were did I say "instead"?



The only thing loot 2.0 brought was a loss for everybody instead of just a loss for people who didnt use their brains.
Sure, loot 1.0 had more volatility (or at least that should be the perception) , but when playing eco, you could go a very long way with your ped.

Now playing eco doesnt matter shit anymore.

Loot 1 was a brain game.
loot 2 is a slotmachine with the odds set to always lose.

Playtime with uneco setup might have been increased, but playtime with eco setups decreased.

loot 2.0 was implemented because in loot 1.0 some smart players were beating the system. They were constantly winning from the house!
Loot 2.0 wasnt introduced to cater the players. That's a big piece of :bs:
It was to protect the house.

loot 2.0 now is MU game. No MU = garuanteed loss, no matter what gear you use.


That's my view on it.
 
Its still possible to make ped. Just have to use your brain. Same thing like pre VU2.0 just have to adjust as it works differently now than before...

I do believe that economy could be 1000x better with just simple changes(that I have written down in a file) but MA wont listen anyways. (Just like the society thread ive been bumping for 10 years now).

I think they should invest more time in making the game more attractive with fun social activities. More competitions for societies or teams etc. People dont have a problem spending money for fun but killin 100000 XYZ is not something Id call fun :)

True :bandit:
 
Here's where the loot is:


If you want to hit big, you gotta hunt big.

You must be joking now. We all know solo plays for swirls and fun, he once wrote on his stream that all those years he has put in EU about 100k USD and playing messi style would bore him do death.

Compilation of big hits looks fun but does not mean he is "winning". He spent lots of money but for him winning is having fun killing all those SK's.

Loot 2.0 killed fun. EU gets super boring so i understand that solo is loosing money to get excitement.
 
To be honest (and yes, I am biased here), many Land Area owners (including myself) try very hard to add that extra bit of excitement to the game-play through events, prizes and mechanics that we come up with ourselves - so it may be worth checking some of them out in the 'Events' section if you're looking for a bit of an extra boost.

I obviously can't speak for all Land Area owners in terms of payouts etc, but I have personally paid out nice prizes to many people so far, with one payout of 5000 ped happening just a couple of weeks ago......so maybe the 'stability' of loot 2.0 coupled with the 'excitement' of a player-made event could be what you're looking for?

Just my :twocents:
 
Mechanically such was the game for some time, Alina might be right on the timeframe.

The problem with MU is that it has to come from deposit, somebody must lose for it (at the moment of paying), and the same somebody must have a future motivation to do so. Which in reality is very tough to implement in a sustainable manner.

Boxes for instance were a bubble which lasted for a couple of years. First iterations of Mayhem meant 4-5 ped per box, output comp at 200%ish and tokens towards 80 pec a piece via pills. Now boxes are 2,x, output comp 150%, tokens towards 40 pec and quantities haven't changed much.

The fundamental problem until now is they actually haven't implemented any content for high efficiency guns. 2.0 & efficiency are ingame for, what, more than 3 years now and nothing off the "exciting new content" didn't arrived, except a forced threshold of tt return.

Outside of Mayhem there might be some cash in various tiering-up materials, but tiering up itself must have a meaning, you need more dmg or more range or more heal to... to do something. And that something is kind of missing.

Regular hunting is so-so, landgrab is pure politics, skills stopped being meaningful enough to be bought etc

There is some merit in chasing/buying high eff gun, but then it runs in the same conundrum, you still need some MU to cover your losses. And you can't create that MU nomatter how inventive you are, it's a function of the system as a whole. The devs create or not desirable mechanics/items etc which in turn create or not demand for this or that. You have no power in it, hence no guilt. You can do your best to stay up to date and informed, but that's about it. It's not up to you wether component X drops or not, only to try to loot it.

And it's kind of logical that the best course for the devs is to continuously deny these possibilities and let here and there some marketing stuff, which can't actually function once the whole population is counted for. Also they actively disable everything which accidentally has value, a good example being thorifoid helmets. Monria implemented some quest with some horns which, due to a bug, can be worn with a helmet, and provide ul reload buff. MA knows about it and did jacksh*t, because for them is better to have ul reload buff active (more consumtion), than L source of MU for players. Same in mining, crafting etc. Whenever something can provide a profit, they will actively remove/tweak it. But at least in mining and crafting you can get some breathing space over a certain threshold, in hunting you have to invest thousands of $ in gear for equivalent numbers.

So, yea, expecting to pay constantly some 2-3%, for the average player, is kind of what the game is about. And can easily get to 5-10% if you don't pay attention.
 
I still have no idea what loot2.0 was/is? Less volatility?

Rgds

Ace
 
I still have no idea what loot2.0 was/is? Less volatility?

Rgds

Ace

loot 2.0 was nothing more but a fix to prevent players to always have tt profit.
 
Like that armour that gave critical hit bonus?

Rgds

Ace

Yes, that was part of it.
That coupled with rings, and other buffs that would make people able to get past a point that the returns were always higher than the cost to kill.
So, guaranteed TT profit and thus always beating the house.

So, MA had to fix the situation they had created.

And then loot 2.0 was born and it was brought as a present to the players.
And from then on overkilling, fapping etc etc didnt mean shit anymore.
The era of eco was gone.
And the steady but guaranteed loss period had begun.
It became a MU game.
Hunt for MU or go broke.
And that's were we are now.

But I guess the loot 1.0 situation would not have been maintainable with so many people starting to leech the system.
So a change was needed.

It turned entropia into a far more straightforward game.
As we see with most new things that MA is introducing.
All focused on simplicity so even my 10 year old daughter can play it.
 
Yes, that was part of it.
That coupled with rings, and other buffs that would make people able to get past a point that the returns were always higher than the cost to kill.
So, guaranteed TT profit and thus always beating the house.

So, MA had to fix the situation they had created.

And then loot 2.0 was born and it was brought as a present to the players.
And from then on overkilling, fapping etc etc didnt mean shit anymore.
The era of eco was gone.
And the steady but guaranteed loss period had begun.
It became a MU game.
Hunt for MU or go broke.
And that's were we are now.

But I guess the loot 1.0 situation would not have been maintainable with so many people starting to leech the system.
So a change was needed.

It turned entropia into a far more straightforward game.
As we see with most new things that MA is introducing.
All focused on simplicity so even my 10 year old daughter can play it.
MA never loses money to players, its more like players win/lose to eachother and MA takes a cut always
 
MA never loses money to players, its more like players win/lose to eachother and MA takes a cut always

During loot 1.0 MA was surely losing money to players.
MA didnt always take that cut.
The players took a steady cut from MA!

hence the change to loot 2.0.

And now it's correct what you state.
 
I belive we r still paying for the millions of peds MA lost during 1.0 i`ve Heard of ppl making 800k profits over a year, and most of the ppl that profited hard left long ago at the start of 2.0
 
I belive we r still paying for the millions of peds MA lost during 1.0 i`ve Heard of ppl making 800k profits over a year, and most of the ppl that profited hard left long ago at the start of 2.0

Exactly.
And that's what made MA change to loot 2.0.

And not to make us players happy, but to prevent Entropia from going under.
 
Hi,

I'm a returning player, came back after 3 years, started playing again on December. Started on Merry Mayhem just for fun and was doing quite ok with (L) guns, but maybe it was because of my amped mining losses before quitting in year 2016 :laugh:

I didn't even complete Merry Mayhem, got interested in EU again and bought A-3 Justifier Mk. 2 (maxed), Adjusted + A106 amp to start low level hunting. Finished 5k argo as i had a mission from long time ago and also about 17 Argo levels on Codex, it was quite worth it because of skill gain. Also did some other mobs - low level drones (with very bad return), fouls etc. I'm lvl36 Laser Sniper (hit).

I cycled ~12k peds, i think i should be close to 10k mobs killed. TT return is ~92.5%. MU is non-existant as to be expected from argos. I started on Animal looter level 8, so almost zero skill.

Skilling is better at the moment because of the Codex, but i see the problem is that EU became so lean if it's a fitting word - when you are on a bad streak you go down to 70-75% return, top runs are rare and up to 120%. Top global was 49 PED, playing is possible, graphics are good, grinding gets boring. Atm I'm afraid of going to higher turnover with higher DPS weapons, i might get back to mining soon as i have decent skills there.
 
this was the game since 2006 till they added buffs , what was the difference we had some markup

these days with the very low 79-80% base TT-return it's quite difficult to pay good MUs for crafting materials.
If people want to get more MU, then MA has to up the base TT-return.

When a 100 PED crafting run gives 20 PED MU and MA takes 20 PED via bad TT-return, then it's simply not possible to pay any MU for the materials. It's simple math.
 
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During loot 1.0 MA was surely losing money to players.
MA didnt always take that cut.
The players took a steady cut from MA!

hence the change to loot 2.0.

And now it's correct what you state.

Peds that profiting players get (even tt profit) ALWAYS comes out of other players pocket, MAs bottom line is always the same,
 
Peds that profiting players get (even tt profit) ALWAYS comes out of other players pocket, MAs bottom line is always the same,

I agree with this.
 
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