Nice and polite support - but still costed me 230-270Ped... :(

Lets the case speak itself... BUT - everything is logged, and when its not in the logs - I'm mistaken.... Thats plain bullshit...

However - support was a human being and wasnt copy/paste tricks

----- Suggests U still read this case ayway, its still MindArk fucking me -----

Case 80039 History
31 May 2006 Tom Frank Christensen:
Hiya

I'm currently hunting in Crystal Palace

After dying - I went to a TT terminanl to restock medium blp for my gun and I dragged 100ped more ammo in, the pedcard and nothing else into the window.

I got 10.000 rounds of ammo, but lost the remaining between 23.000 and 27.000 ammo I had in my inventory.

So basically between 230 and 270ped just vanished into thin air...

I hope I can have these replaced... I'm almost 1000% sure that I didn't drag the "leftover" ammo in the tt window too, and my account balance was slightly over 2000ped when I initiated the trade, now its about 1900~ which kinda leads me to that the 230 - 270ped was GONE...

31 May 2006 MindArk Support:
Hi,
We can see that you sold Medium BLP Pack to the TT on the 2006-05-31 at 05:48 UTC. 214.95 PED were transferred to your PED card.

Regards,
Entropia Support

31 May 2006 Tom Frank Christensen:
Yes well that was before this incident, I was hunting before. Normally I drag leftover ammo over and sell them so I start with a clean 100 or 300ped hunt in ammo, but I didnt do it this time as I thought add 100 and we are close to 300 more...

31 May 2006 MindArk Support:
Hi,
Then you need to add the exact time of this incidence, because you have bought a lot of ammo on that day.

Regards,
Entropia Support

31 May 2006 Tom Frank Christensen:
around 8.30-8:40 danish time... would be 6:30-6:40 or 7:30-7:40 MA time, dont really know the time difference

01 Jun 2006 MindArk Support:
Hi,
There is only one transaction involving purchase of Medium Weapons cell between 06:00 and 08:00 UTC:

This transaction contains the following:


2006-05-31 07:17:45

Trade Medium BLP Pack 100.00
Trade Medium BLP Pack 1.00
Trade Medium BLP Pack 100.00
Trade Medium BLP Pack 100.00
Trade Project Entropia Dollar -59.00
Trade Project Entropia Cents -7.04
Trade Medium BLP Pack -89.45

An additional -145.51 PED were charged from your PED card.

Regards,
Entropia Support

01 Jun 2006 Tom Frank Christensen:
It was at a time where I bought 100ped medium blp packs - I only bought and didnt sell, but strangely the 230-270ped medium blp in my inventory vanished too

Ofcourse U cant see it in a trade terminal log since it just disapeared and i didnt drag it there. So wheres the 230-270ped ammo that I'm missing?

01 Jun 2006 MindArk Support:
Hi,
This is the problem. We cannot verify such a loss. We have checked your log history for the whole day and no ammo is lost on the way.

It could be that this issue is connected to the problem corrected in the VU 8.4.1 (see News section), namely that the client software did not quite accurately update the current ammunition and deterioration levels supplied from the server.

Regards,
Entropia Support

01 Jun 2006 Tom Frank Christensen:
I had a determination sword at a TT value of 0 ped, after relogging it was back at 102 ped or whatever again.

But its not vanished and returned that ammo, it simply just fell outta the sky and never appeared again...

I don't know how to explain to you that I should have them back, but I've been in the game way long and don't just lie.

Besides - Being in the game for this long, U realize what U sell and not sells, unless its an fap50 incident instead of a fap5 ofcourse (Had that in the past - just had to mention it hehe)

Well - If U can't refund the peds or ammo or whatever, I cant really do nothing about it other than have my opinions about it and be moaning about them to some friends about how 230-270 peds vanished in space with no trace and refund *G*

02 Jun 2006 MindArk Support:
Hi,
We certainly do not call you a liar. We also do do not say that you are just making this up. The problem is just that we cannot verify any loss and therefore we cannot do anything about it. Most likely this problem was caused by the confusion due to the client update bug. Should it happen again, please contact us immediately and note the exact time of the incidence.

We regret that we could not help you further with this specific issue.

We will now close this ticket. Should you have further questions still left unanswered, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Regards,
Entropia Support

Sorry for your loss. That's typical. If it doesn't showin their logs (which it rarely does), they give nothing. I guess they have a good reason for doing that because anyone could lie.

But, as we all know, this VU has many small bugs and i think we should all be compensated for the losses due to lag or vanishing things or whatever...

hooters said:

But, as we all know, this VU has many small bugs and i think we should all be compensated for the losses due to lag or vanishing things or whatever...

Click to expand...

That will never gonna happen They are "innocent" till proven otherwise - its OUR obligation to show they fuck us, not vise versa - but I cant have a video dumper running in the background constantly can I?

Something about all that just doesn't add up...

Surely they must be able to see exactly what happened to your ped card balance.

They must be able to fairly easily see that the ammo you bought was not fired or used, so they must (if they tried) be able to verify what you're saying is correct, if nothing else than the difference in decay on your weapons!

It's all very well to just say "ah well, $27 down the pisser... better luck next time", but that points to a severe flaw in their system. So what if their logs don't show it? It shouldn't be your problem!

Every VU they release is more buggy than the last it seems, and there is an abundance of bugs which lose people money. When you're talking about sums of money as large as you're talking in PE, the system has to be far more robust.

I'm quite disgusted by the way they treated you there even if they did answer you a bit more human than usual! I find it amazing that we can actually compliment a company for treating us with a bit of respect, when they do nothing to help as such.

Makes me sick.

But look on the bright side -- you'd have probably lost that cash hunting anyway!

Since the update I have been losing ammo from invetory when hunting last night it went from 11k down to 1k while i was shooting. Has happened to me with bombs and probes too. I have to relog to get it back. Sorry for your loss.

Well it seems that in mindarks eyes, the customer is never right (or properly compensated). You are a well known participant in EU, and most likely a regular depositor, so I thought that they would compensate you, and they didnt, so what hope is there for us 'small' peeps hehe.
Brought 50 ped of ammo myself today, then realised that I only got 30 ped of ammo back, but relogged and it was there luckily, so I know how much of a pain it must be for you, and I hope that MA will ensure that something like this doesnt happen again

happens to me all the time this VU, wile hunting suddently 2-300ped of ammo is gone, i make a relogg and its back

wenna306 said:

Brought 50 ped of ammo myself today, then realised that I only got 30 ped of ammo back, but relogged and it was there luckily, so I know how much of a pain it must be for you, and I hope that MA will ensure that something like this doesnt happen again

Click to expand...

I relogged 3 times after my 230-270ped incident, expecting it to be shown. Even fired one shot into thin air just to hope it would update - but it didn't.

am i right in thinkin that if u buy or sell something with a tax registred company, dont they have to log all transactions down?, if they have it will be in the logs, if they havent it wont be, which could be classed as a breach of consumer law, im not a lawyer, but i do work in sales and thats what have to do, so what im trying to say is, it should be logged and if it is, they need to look harder, not get the intern to look for it, lol, and also, if it isnt logged, it should be as it could be classed as breach of consumer law (or whatever the real name of it is)

cstarr said:

Since the update I have been losing ammo from invetory when hunting last night it went from 11k down to 1k while i was shooting. Has happened to me with bombs and probes too. I have to relog to get it back. Sorry for your loss.

Click to expand...

Happened to me twice yesterday... along with losing 20 PED to the Gun/Fap lag bug... My condolences as well...

I notist something strange last night to.
I always start with 6K ammo when i begin to hunt.
After the hunt i drop the remaining ammo in tt en select 6K ammo.
So i sell remaining and buy 6K the same time.
In my inventory i see 5 stacks of 1K, some of the stacks i can put togther into one, but 1k not.
So far i think i dragged 1K ammo to few.
Mean while i was hunting again.
When i was planning to stop, i did the whole trade again.
And again i missed 1k ammo
And i am shure i put in 6K in stead of 5K.

so last night i miss 2k off ammo.

i hope i get some back when i login tonight.

greetings,

bigdeal

Althought the outcome wasnt good at least you got more than one line from ur support person and it looks like they did at least investigate it. I wish the one I have atm would give some thought...

A similar story happened to me few months ago. I was out hunting S of Ithaca, then server rebooted/crashed, loot rolled back (about 70ped), ammo remained tha same (spent). I contacted support and they said it's not in their logs that I had that loot. I tried to explain them the mechanics of software, that if server crashes the latest data can be lost etc (I'm an IT nerd in the end!), but no luck: it's not in their logs - end of story. I didn't insist: in the end it's just $7.

This is getting bad if we cant count on there to keep our money safe



I had three items in auction
nothing sold and I come back relogged three times and only have 1 Item in auction and cant find the missing two stackables.

I am worried now do I have to write everthing down I mean if I do that this no longer becomes a game we must be able to trust 100% the inventory in game.


Another time we had a problem with a beacon and we got the message back its not in our records.


when we where 3 on that mission and let me tell you it was in our records and memorys.


So if I understand correctly there records only show thing when its normal but if there is a fuckup well it doesnt show hmm.

Just did a check om "my items" on the entrpoia sire, and it says i have 2 stacks of med ammo.
1 of 2K and 1 of 5K................
So i think i am lucky and not losing any amount of ammo.
But ingame i WAS loosing 2k ammo.
(or is MA reading this thread and gave me 2K ammo LOL )

Can't wait to log in and see if it is there.

greetings,

bigdeal

hooters said:

Sorry for your loss. That's typical. If it doesn't showin their logs (which it rarely does), they give nothing. I guess they have a good reason for doing that because anyone could lie.

Click to expand...

Well if thats what they do its a stupid policy. When you are a long time costumer you are entitled to a little service. If something similar in RL would happen (you bought a damaged item but only noticed when opening the package) a good company would compensate you even if you cant prove you didnt do it yourself.

Its good costumer service to give people the benefit of the doubt especially to long time costumers when its about such a small amount of ammo. Again they made a bad move here.

Actually i had some similar case, but i got more PEDs back (about 40 PEDs profit)... i filed a support case, and lets see, what they do, if they loose money.

Sorry for not giving more details on this, but i don't want this bug to be exploited.

Hi,

nicely pointed out and here is what should be:
Since it is their system, they (MA) have all the responsibility,
they are always guilty until they can proof otherwise, leaving the tracking of items and times up to the individual himself is just criminal to start with.
They offer the system, they have the logs, if any at all.

The way they asked for a specific time in this case leads me to believe they do notice these faults but knowing the player plays and does not record his every action, they have once more an excuse to not have to refund and take the loot themselfs.

They are guilty until they produce proof off the oposite, not whatever they say. No criminal in his right mind ever confesses, neither does MA.
They dont want to call the person a liar but yet show no intention off really straitening things out, since its their gain. YES MA YOU'R TOO OBSCURE.
All anybody can do is take your word unless they have video proof?

This is MA acting like their innocent when they have to proof alot.

Any means necesary to meet their goals, all is fair in love and war principle.
Just like todays banks hold back peoples paychecks for a day or two on a random basis so it wouldn't get noticed to much. Makes them profit.
What are always the promises we get and what is the truth we deal with?

I am inclined to think a serious bussines would have a different stance towards any customer complaint. Yes i know people(i am no stranger to human ways) and MA cant really be held anything against, but still ....

Greetings

Tom thebuzz Chr said:

That will never gonna happen They are "innocent" till proven otherwise - its OUR obligation to show they fuck us, not vise versa - but I cant have a video dumper running in the background constantly can I?

Click to expand...

Someone in my society had 100 ped of residue disappear when there was no successful attempt at making an item...

And I think mining amps, or certain mining amps, aren't working... more about that in another thread.

this is a BUG thats costing US money
and as Etopia said,,,,,if MA are NOT loosing Money do expect a fix for a few months
Just a wild guess,,But maybe they are trying to beat last years windfall Revenue of 28 million Kroner

have a look
www.mindark.com

As my socleader Rex always used to say (and probably still does).. "After a VU, don't do any hunting for at least a week"

I think this rings more true every VU lol... I'm pretty sure if everyone held off hunting for a while, MA would be more motivated to clean up their act!

I still find it quite inexcusable that such things happen, and continue to cost us money (most people the loss figure exceeds the price of a subscription MMO!), nevertheless I think it's a damn good tip

Never play
On V.U day!



sry for ur loss

Noggin said:

As my socleader Rex always used to say (and probably still does).. "After a VU, don't do any hunting for at least a week"

I think this rings more true every VU lol... I'm pretty sure if everyone held off hunting for a while, MA would be more motivated to clean up their act!

Click to expand...

no they found a way around you doing that now too, by screwing up your avvy

wanda said:

no they found a way around you doing that now too, by screwing up your avvy

Click to expand...

ROFL, yeah good point Guess we're just screwed then?

Well at least this thread gives U guys/gals some idea of how somewhat ignorant Support can be, even polite - but not trusting...

Ammo has disappeared and tt from amps, weapons, and armor has disappeared for me too. When I went to the repair terminal once, I found that a piece of my ghost armor has decayed 50peds, the rest 1 ped or less. Still, I'm sure that if I repaired right then, I would have lost the 50peds. I think this is what happened to you, your ammo disappeared and when you purchased more ammo, your log recorded your current ammo (which was incorrect) + your newly purchased ammo. This number was recorded in the log and regarded as correct (it doesn't record ammo usage, imagine 6000 entries of -10ammo) so even if you relog you don't get it back.

No consulation I'm sure but relog if items are missing before visiting a tt or repair terminal and you can avoid having this bug happen to you.

sry for ur loss, dude.

but i think they realised u took "too many hofs" recently *G*

Last time we needed to relog after 30 minutes because of memory leak now we have to relog bevor using any Trade Terminal and record everything we have with screenshots bevor we comit trades with MA approved machines otherwise there is no prove for lost ammo/peds.

But what I think is the strangest thing, back when the Landgrab was totally fubared they had each click on the claimrod in their loggs so why they cant record each pull of the trigger and so calculate if you spent the ammo or not you purchased?


If it suits MA it is in Log if not it isnt - strange...

Raffaele Meiers said:

Last time we needed to relog after 30 minutes because of memory leak now we have to relog bevor using any Trade Terminal and record everything we have with screenshots bevor we comit trades with MA approved machines otherwise there is no prove for lost ammo/peds.

But what I think is the strangest thing, back when the Landgrab was totally fubared they had each click on the claimrod in their loggs so why they cant record each pull of the trigger and so calculate if you spent the ammo or not you purchased?


If it suits MA it is in Log if not it isnt - strange...

Click to expand...

LOL !
What makes you think that your " proves" actually could make any difference ?! Read the EULA, nobody guarantees a game free of bugs and errors, is all your lose, and btw, you dont " owe " nothing in game, any item --and PEDs are items ---belongs to MA.
And the EULA says what YOU must do, not what MA will do.
Each case is " Unique " , if i might say so....lol !

Edit : im sorry for your lose, i really am, it happends to me too and i know how you feel. But there is nothing we could do about it.