using weapons and how skills matter ...

Fusion

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Hey there, there are a couple of other threads asking about when to change guns and so on - that kinda inspired me to write the following text about it, because there were various opinions about when to change and so on, how skills matter and stuff (e.g. should you use an ML-35 with 800 rifle? ... for example).


Well, here's the deal with guns and skill levels as I think about it:

Take for an example a rifle that does 8 damage and one that does 80 damage.

Let's say you have 25% as minimum damage for now.

Damage interval on 8 damage rifle: 2.0 - 8.0
Damage interval on 80 damage rifle: 20.0 - 80.0

This means that by doing minimum damage with an 8 damage gun you'll do 6 damage less than you potentially could do with it, using the 80 damage gun and doing minimum damage, you'll do 60 damage less than what the rifle is capable of.

Now through skilling your minimum damage increases to 50% of the max.

Damage interval on 8 damage rifle: 4.0 - 8.0
Damage interval on 80 damage rifle: 40.0 - 80.0

Which means that by doing minimum damage, you'll do 4 less than what the 8 damage rifle could do and 40 damage less when you would be using the 80 damage gun.


What does this tell us? Skills make a bigger difference on bigger guns, well ... obviously :)

Even though there would be no difference in damage/pec if both guns would have the same economy rating, there's a big difference in the actual damage delivered by beeing skilled. And the damage you do is what kills mobs after all.

It seems that it doesn't make much sense to use a low-level rifle with high skills, since those high skills won't make for a big difference from a damage point of view on low damage weapons. Skills make a big difference on the actual damage delivered by high damage weapons though.

In the above example the difference between 25% and 50% on the 8 damage rifle is only 2 damage more as a minimum, the difference on the 80 damage rifle is ten times as much, i.e. 20 damage more minimum.

Again, what I mean here is that of course the damage/pec is the same for both (assuming they got the same economy), of course the %age is the same, but there's a big difference in the actual damage difference.


To sum it up, I am one of those who believe you should not use a big gun with low skills, unless you're prepared to and don't mind to pay a lot for your hunting (except when you get lucky). The problem is that I'm really not sure why exactly, what I've written above is just a way I started to explain that to myself ... if anyone has any opinion on it, I'd be glad to hear it :) Thanks.
 
What??? You lost me there somewhere. :confused: :scratch:
:sniper: Damn missed by | | that much
 
but where is the difference between 10 shots with the 8 dmg rifle and 1 shot with the 80 dmg rifle?
 
Its been extensively tested by highly skilled players before and now easily seen on the weapon stats, that the % of max damage you can get with a weapon is the same with all of the weapons of that kind with only small differences as long as you can produce the highest dmg possible with that gun.
Try looking in auction bring up the stats for the most badassed gun you can find (that you can do max dmg with), and some cheap gun, if you take the minimum dmg and devide the max dmg you'll end up with about the same percentage on both I.E the percentage of the minimum damage out of the max possible.

That being said there is a big difference if you miss or get low dmg with one shot with a weapon with 25 ammo burn than one with a 2 ammo burn (or the same difference in decay if you use blp).

...but then again what do I know, I'm just a noob. ;)
 
Fusion said:
Hey there, there are a couple of other threads asking about when to change guns and so on - that kinda inspired me to write the following text about it, because there were various opinions about when to change and so on, how skills matter and stuff (e.g. should you use an ML-35 with 800 rifle? ... for example).


Well, here's the deal with guns and skill levels as I think about it:

Take for an example a rifle that does 8 damage and one that does 80 damage.

Let's say you have 25% as minimum damage for now.

Damage interval on 8 damage rifle: 2.0 - 8.0
Damage interval on 80 damage rifle: 20.0 - 80.0

This means that by doing minimum damage with an 8 damage gun you'll do 6 damage less than you potentially could do with it, using the 80 damage gun and doing minimum damage, you'll do 60 damage less than what the rifle is capable of.

Now through skilling your minimum damage increases to 50% of the max.

Damage interval on 8 damage rifle: 4.0 - 8.0
Damage interval on 80 damage rifle: 40.0 - 80.0

Which means that by doing minimum damage, you'll do 4 less than what the 8 damage rifle could do and 40 damage less when you would be using the 80 damage gun.


What does this tell us? Skills make a bigger difference on bigger guns, well ... obviously :)

Even though there would be no difference in damage/pec if both guns would have the same economy rating, there's a big difference in the actual damage delivered by beeing skilled. And the damage you do is what kills mobs after all.

It seems that it doesn't make much sense to use a low-level rifle with high skills, since those high skills won't make for a big difference from a damage point of view on low damage weapons. Skills make a big difference on the actual damage delivered by high damage weapons though.

In the above example the difference between 25% and 50% on the 8 damage rifle is only 2 damage more as a minimum, the difference on the 80 damage rifle is ten times as much, i.e. 20 damage more minimum.

Again, what I mean here is that of course the damage/pec is the same for both (assuming they got the same economy), of course the %age is the same, but there's a big difference in the actual damage difference.


To sum it up, I am one of those who believe you should not use a big gun with low skills, unless you're prepared to and don't mind to pay a lot for your hunting (except when you get lucky). The problem is that I'm really not sure why exactly, what I've written above is just a way I started to explain that to myself ... if anyone has any opinion on it, I'd be glad to hear it :) Thanks.


I can only laugh at your statement here

Say you want to kill a mob that have 500 hitpoints

If you do 50% average damage on your 80 dmg weapon you need:
500 / 40 = 13 shots. and around 20 x 13 = 260 ammo

If you instead do 50% average damage on your 8 dmg weapon you need:
500 / 4 = 130 shots (not counting regen) and around 2 x 130 = 260 ammo

Since the big gun does 10 times more damage it also cost 10 times more to use.

To sum it up (as DarkFire also said) The difference got the same impact on all weapons (with the possible exception of whips)
 
to complicat everything, remember the regeneration rate for that specifi mob :D
 
Akoz said:
Since the big gun does 10 times more damage it also cost 10 times more to use.

To sum it up (as DarkFire also said) The difference got the same impact on all weapons (with the possible exception of whips)


I think the important here is misses. Misses with a high dmg gun means more then with a low dmg gun. Hit-rate is very important, and I hope MA could also add hit-rate as % on personal stats so we see the skills influence on it.

/Kjetil :cool:
 
but what if miss rate is the same? say 10% fx after burning 100 ped of ammo you will have missed for 10 ped no matter if you use big or small gun.
on another note; big guns deals dammage fast, but also does "unneccesary" dmg in the kill shot ;)
better use 2 shots with a small gun than one with the big one to take the last 10 HP
 
DarkFire said:
but what if miss rate is the same? say 10% fx after burning 100 ped of ammo you will have missed for 10 ped no matter if you use big or small gun.
on another note; big guns deals dammage fast, but also does "unneccesary" dmg in the kill shot ;)
better use 2 shots with a small gun than one with the big one to take the last 10 HP

Reason that I post is more or less same that with crafting. Cost is ok to handle when you only deal with pecs, but harder to handle when you deal with peds. If ppl lose much, better stay to smaller guns and lower TT-value-required items to craft. If ppl gain, do the oposite. :D
I am of course agree with you that it is the same in both ammo burn and miss-rate if you use it linear. 10x2 pec is same as 2x10 pec. (10 shots compared to 2 shots)
Important factors here are:
- regeneration of health
- decay on armor/FAP
- skill-gain
- patience

/Kjetil :cool:
 
And then, just to make it worse

And then, just to make it worse, comes the little issue of damage/second.
And thats something that REALLY matter.. if youve tried to kill an AOA with a mann mph, you know what i mean..
Its all quite simple.. you pay for what you get...
If you do 8 damage, you have low damage, low burn and shitty dmg/sec
If you do 80 damage, you have medium/high damage, medium burn and decent dmg/sec.
And.. btw.. forget killing AOA with mann MPH.. especially without amp..
 
Tigerman said:
And then, just to make it worse, comes the little issue of damage/second.
Yep, and there's the other issue you've posted in another thread that not only average damage determines your damage/second but also that hit ratio is a big factor.

And then if you miss more often with the 8 damage gun, not that big deal really, damage/sec will go down a little bit, you'll waste some pecs... if you miss a lot with the 80 damage gun though, damage/sec will go down considerably and you'll waste a couple of peds.
 
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