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Question: BD Implant not best anymore?

CyberPunk said:
Bc was not too far off, ~+500

Entropians are a bit like lemmings sometimes, word gets out that "this is best" and people just take the word for it, without thinking about it or doing their own research.

Now tell me that even though you didn't have lvl 8-9 chips, you liked paying the extra markup and decay, that's the only reason I could see owning a Bd.....aside from not being able to get a hold of the more eco (and rarer) choice, a Bc.
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Bc 1-7 +500 then it was the same as 1-5lvl implant, as I bought one of those for a friend around that price range so then you could argue that was even rarer? (and should perhaps be "lvl" 60 today, dont know of the decay tho but since it could use less, perhaps the decay was even lower)

And for the record I bought my Bd implant for FUTURE use, sure I didn't use higher then V chips but I planned on doing so in the future.
And now when we all(I guess) expected L chips that future seemed to come even closer as a high L chip would probably be something you could afford on normal mid level players budgets too...


PS. Marco or Hanne when will you insert our implants again after our lobotomy almost year ago?
 
CyberPunk said:
Bc was not too far off, ~+500

Entropians are a bit like lemmings sometimes, word gets out that "this is best" and people just take the word for it, without thinking about it or doing their own research.

I'm not denying that the Bd allowed for higher level chips, my point is that the Bc had less decay and MOST Bd users didn't even have lvl 8-9 chips so could have got by unrestricted with the Bc.

For my personal needs, lower decay and same functionality (for my purposes) made Bc the better implant.

Now tell me that even though you didn't have lvl 8-9 chips, you liked paying the extra markup and decay, that's the only reason I could see owning a Bd.....aside from not being able to get a hold of the more eco (and rarer) choice, a Bc.
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This is an RCE and things should be based on market value. MA needs to do as well as they can to preserve market value or people will not trust the game. The Bd was the most valuable because it allowed you to use the wormhole chip (and i think ressurection) while also still being able to use lower level tp chips without switching implants, which would be costly. It also covered you for any future high level chips. I don't think there was much difference in decay between the Bc and Bd for it to be very relevant (but I don't know for sure now because that information was already removed from entropedia).

Like I said, there was good reason the Bd was valued higher than the Bc, not just "lemmings".
 
Xen said:
This is an RCE and things should be based on market value. MA needs to do as well as they can to preserve market value or people will not trust the game. The Bd was the most valuable because it allowed you to use the wormhole chip (and i think ressurection) while also still being able to use lower level tp chips without switching implants, which would be costly. It also covered you for any future high level chips. I don't think there was much difference in decay between the Bc and Bd for it to be very relevant (but I don't know for sure now because that information was already removed from entropedia).

Like I said, there was good reason the Bd was valued higher than the Bc, not just "lemmings".
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How many res and wormhole chips are out there? For the small handful of people who owned them, Bd was more valuable. Everyone else would have been better off with Bc.

So long as you can still use the wormhole and res chip with the new version of Bd, nothing has changed.

So now the Bc is better, yet how many really NEED it? Like the Bd before, only a small handful.

All that's happened is the Bc has increased in ability, the Bd still provides the same ability as before.
 
How many people crying wolf have level 41 hit in a mindforce profession? NONE


I really don't think it matters. How is Bd devalued? Bc got a value increase, Bd might even increase

Even if you have level 41 hit, you will probably need +19 levels on an item like the VII electro blast to max it

So how many people have 60 hit and want to use MF (L)?
 
I'm posting this data that a very trustworthy friend gave me:

"To begin it is not yet correct to say that the Bc is better than the Bd
except for future potencial use


It seems that MA made a balance on what available implants could do and their rarity
The Ae was definatly the rarest of the A series and got to level 30


I could not get a Ae for a "decent" price (since it could not use level I, I was unwilling to pay their markup by an order of 100 PED, it would force me to use minor tp instead of lesser afterwards so I figure that the decay had to be extremelly better which was very unlikelly due to previous hearsay)

And to my knowledge it was very hard to get a Bc, they were for sure more rare than the Bd

I bought a Bc with the only purpose to test its decay, since for its use it would be the same (because I didn't use Level VIII chips back then)

So
CyberPunk said:
The Bd had higher decay than the Bc, "not as good" is a matter of opinion, I preferred the Bc and seemingly hit the lottery as I had one in storage (now on auction).
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this is false in my opinion the Bd had the lowest decay of all that I've tested in the past

I already tested the NeoPsion 50 Mindforce Implant today
and I can say that until further tests I will be using the TT implant
(I have the NeoPsion 40 Mindforce Implant available to test but haven't since the 6 PED cost is unreasonable for a "potential" difference of at the most 0,2 PEC per use, so I postpone it until I decide that I will use Mindforce on a frequency that justifies it, or until my curiosity gain momentum, which will probably happen next week)

NeoPsion 10 Mindforce Implant decay: 0.457 PEC
NeoPsion 50 Mindforce Implant decay: 0.617 PEC

NeoPsion 50 Mindforce Implant decay is lower than the former Bc decay but the NeoPsion 10 Mindforce Implant is much lower than than the Aa

So MA I praise MA for making Mindforce implementation more cost friendly



Currently no chip that I saw needs more than a level 20
(probably next week with new (L) we may get something which requires above level 20)

Synchronization Chip XIV
Required level: 1.0
First Gen Firestorm Chip VIII
Required level: 4.0
First Gen Electric attack Chip VIII
Required level: 11.0
First Gen Resurrect Chip VIII
Required level: 14.0
Regeneration Chip VIII
Required level: 14.4
First Gen Wormhole Chip VIII
Required level: 15.7

So highest required is 15.7

Teleportation Chip VIII can't be checked in auction
Teleportation Chip VII
Recomended level: 25.0

Is Recomended level also a Required level ?


So saying that the Bd got nerfed without knowing its decayed is at best an uneducated gamble, knowing MA ability to come with new things I would say that as long as the decay on the NeoPsion 40 Mindforce Implant isn't higher than 0,8 PEC then it wasn't really nerfed,
it were the others that were boasted up.
"
 
Thanks for the information, Archangel.

Confirms the expectations that the implants haven't lost utility: the high level ones can still handle every chip we've seen.

I suspect the decay is going to go the way you found for the normal series (i.e. increasing with level) to make higher-level chips more expensive, with of course some special uber exceptions.


There still seems to be confusion about the level that the implants allow. It seems to indicate in the VU notes that the relevant "level" is the starting level of the chip (the SIB learning period). If your implant is higher than that, you can use the chip. Your own skill level isn't relevant for the implant you need.
 
I don't see how this is not a mistake by MindArk.

-Bd was a higher implant than Bc (according to the naming convetion)
-Bd accessed higher levels (1-9) than Bc (1-7)

Doesn't matter which was more rare, and it doesn't matter which has more decay.

Bd was higher than Bc.

Making Bd level 40 and Bc level 50 is a mistake by MindArk and should be corrected as soon as possible. :proof:
 
Sarah said:
I don't see how this is not a mistake by MindArk.

-Bd was a higher implant than Bc (according to the naming convetion)
-Bd accessed higher levels (1-9) than Bc (1-7)

Doesn't matter which was more rare, and it doesn't matter which has more decay.

Bd was higher than Bc.

Making Bd level 40 and Bc level 50 is a mistake by MindArk and should be corrected as soon as possible. :proof:
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Exactly (is not 10 characters).
 
I agree with Doer that it's not exactly a nerfing if this is correct, but surely it's just a bug and they got mixed up. I don't see any reason why they would have done this other than in error.
 
Oleg said:
I agree with Doer that it's not exactly a nerfing if this is correct, but surely it's just a bug and they got mixed up. I don't see any reason why they would have done this other than in error.
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The only reason I see is that MA has plans for the future to introduced (L) implants too

Along with great usefulness in Mindforce

and since the Bc was the rarest they made it the one that reached higher possible level.

So limiting the uber status that the Bd would give to a smaller number of the Bc owners
 
-Archangel- said:
You did the test yourself with the fruit method ?

Because my friend did (and I trust him since he for sure knows how to draw conclusions from the method since he invented it)
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mm, yes he invented it and you repsect him in so many ways it's impossible to name 'him'
 
-Archangel- said:
The only reason I see is that MA has plans for the future to introduced (L) implants too

Along with great usefulness in Mindforce

and since the Bc was the rarest they made it the one that reached higher possible level.

So limiting the uber status that the Bd would give to a smaller number of the Bc owners
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I notice that the description on the old Bd (whatever the hell it's called now :D) now says it's a medium-level implant, so I'm certain we'll see higher level L implants and chips to go with them.

So that's a reason to cap the old implants at levels 30/40/50 etc, but it's not a reason to make the new Bc better than the new Bd when the old Bd was better than the old Bc.

So I still go with bug :)
 
Oleg said:
So that's a reason to cap the old implants at levels 30/40/50 etc, but it's not a reason to make the new Bc better than the new Bd when the old Bd was better than the old Bc.

So I still go with bug :)
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meh, i've seen counterarguments that Bc was rarer

I still don't think it's worth crying over, there's only a handful of people with level 41 hit anyway
 
Doer said:
There still seems to be confusion about the level that the implants allow. It seems to indicate in the VU notes that the relevant "level" is the starting level of the chip (the SIB learning period). If your implant is higher than that, you can use the chip. Your own skill level isn't relevant for the implant you need.
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I think the confusion is that the Chips still show a chip level in their description; this seems to be a bug, as from MA's description, chip levels have been abolished.

From MA's description, it is now your Profession level which is the sole factor in determining whether you can use an Implant or Chip.

It appears that the value of a Bc or Bd Implant now lies solely in the fact that they are the only Implants anyone over level 30 can use.

If the Bc decays more than the Bd, and few players are over level 40, then the Bd will have a higher value.
 
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Few Scars said:
I suspect there will be high level Jammer and Cold attack chips coming. I hope in UL form. At least it leaves room for higher level more awesome stuff to come!
Anyone tried Resurrection yet?
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Fyi Jammer is the new defence skill against MF :D like evade is to physical hits and dodge to ranged hits, so no UL chips there ;). As for resurrection you should really be asking minken he has been resurrecting people all day long with his new toy :D at rig and twins ring.

~Mark~
 
chevrons said:
I think the confusion is that the Chips still show a chip level in their description; this seems to be a bug, as from MA's description, chip levels have been abolished.

From MA's description, it is now your Profession level which is the sole factor in determining whether you can use an Implant or Chip.
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well the chip level is the same as what's pasted on the lable (sync XIV=chip level 14)

but yeah, guess it's a little misdirecting
 
Bigest issue as others already said is that MA creates a dangerous precedent. Maybe after some update tomorrow adj fap will be converted into Uber Fap 3k and mod in Uber Fap 1k "cause a from adjusted precedes m fom modified in alphabet".
 
chevrons said:
From MA's description, it is now your Profession level which is the sole factor in determining whether you can use an Implant or Chip.
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That doesn't seem very likely as Dan is busy using his chips still, and he has some MF levels in the 90s.
 
i agree total with the follow writer !!


Sarah said:
I don't see how this is not a mistake by MindArk.

-Bd was a higher implant than Bc (according to the naming convetion)
-Bd accessed higher levels (1-9) than Bc (1-7)

Doesn't matter which was more rare, and it doesn't matter which has more decay.

Bd was higher than Bc.

Making Bd level 40 and Bc level 50 is a mistake by MindArk and should be corrected as soon as possible. :proof:
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MA / FCP MUST tell us, what he think about heres new Idea. What are the next Step ? Can we trust in any other Investition ?


Mega said:
I hope they correct this mistake.
What's next Mod Merc transformed into a Karma Killer ?
Doesnt seem right to me. :scratch2:
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Rony said:
Bigest issue as others already said is that MA creates a dangerous precedent. Maybe after some update tomorrow adj fap will be converted into Uber Fap 3k and mod in Uber Fap 1k "cause a from adjusted precedes m fom modified in alphabet".
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Bd still offers the same functionality as before, the only "issue" is the Bc can do more than before.

So it would be more like MA making a P1a outdamage a P2a but leaving the P2a as it was.

There's been no nerf, the Bc has just got better. How can you fault MA for improving an item?
 
CyberPunk said:
Bd still offers the same functionality as before, the only "issue" is the Bc can do more than before.

So it would be more like MA making a P1a outdamage a P2a but leaving the P2a as it was.

There's been no nerf, the Bc has just got better. How can you fault MA for improving an item?
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Exactly
And the Aa got almost uber
 
Rony said:
Bigest issue as others already said is that MA creates a dangerous precedent. Maybe after some update tomorrow adj fap will be converted into Uber Fap 3k and mod in Uber Fap 1k "cause a from adjusted precedes m fom modified in alphabet".
Click to expand...

do you have level 60 hit in mindforce and want to use a 1k% (L) chip to skill right now?
 
Doer said:
That doesn't seem very likely as Dan is busy using his chips still, and he has some MF levels in the 90s.
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Then either MA's description is completely wrong, or he is exploiting a bug. In either event, MA don't seem to think anyone is over level 50.

Chip profession level. Implants now support chip profession level instead of chip levels.
Simplified implant usage. Implant capability works in a new way and always starts from profession level zero and continues to the specific implant's maximum profession level. This makes the implants usage easier since you do not have to switch implants all the time.
Profession level check at equip. When a Mindforce chip is equipped the chip profession level is checked against implant profession level. The equip is valid if the implant profession level is higher than the chip's minimum profession level.
 
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CyberPunk said:
Bd still offers the same functionality as before, the only "issue" is the Bc can do more than before.

So it would be more like MA making a P1a outdamage a P2a but leaving the P2a as it was.

There's been no nerf, the Bc has just got better. How can you fault MA for improving an item?
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Before update, item B was better and more expensive than item A (which happens to be rare). After update A become better and more expensive. Its just a tool for balance manager to artificially decrease overnight availability of a top item and I guess we will see it working again in the future.
 
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Cyber - this are not only a improving for the BC - Implant.
At same time we have a massiv reduction of value AND a decline in use by BD.

For all another one in German (sry, i know my english are horrible)

Dies ist nicht nur eine Aufwertung für das BC-Implantat. Gleichzeitig wurde eine massive Wertminderung UND eine Lvl-Verschlechterung beim BD gemacht. (Im Vergleich zum vorherigen BC-BD)
 
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