Question: BD Implant not best anymore?

[Immortal]

The equip is valid if the implant profession level is higher than the chip's minimum profession level. [/I]

Did you miss this part?

It's badly worded, and should be rewritten

An equip is valid if the maximum profession level allowed by the implant is greater than the starting SIB profession level of the chip used

 

[jenny ferr]

Bd still offers the same functionality as before, the only "issue" is the Bc can do more than before.

So it would be more like MA making a P1a outdamage a P2a but leaving the P2a as it was.

There's been no nerf, the Bc has just got better. How can you fault MA for improving an item?

ok so what if we get a fap-90 outfap adj fap both in heals and eco? the adj didn't change they just upgraded fap-90 so no problem... (call it childish but if you do think again at your own comparison)

do you have level 60 hit in mindforce and want to use a 1k% (L) chip to skill right now?

Maybe not right now but in time I would like to have the opportunity to do so, as it was for the future I bought my Bd implant once as you know this "game" isn't something you play 2months and are done with...

...(Or maybe he was Level 90 before, and is now below 50 under the new system)...

Just saw his post about his levels he lost from lvl107 down to lvl90 so 17levels

 

[CyberPunk]

The equip is valid if the implant profession level is higher than the chip's minimum profession level.

Doesn't matter what your skill level is, what matters is the chip's "Recommended level", listed on the chip in the SIB area.

(Could be wrong, this is my understanding of it though)

 

[jenny ferr]

wrong was just my own browser sry

 

[Immortal]

Maybe not right now but in time I would like to have the opportunity to do so, as it was for the future I bought my Bd implant once as you know this "game" isn't something you play 2months and are done with...

SO in the 5 years it takes you to get there, do you not think that the NP 60, 70, 80 will drop, and that chip requiring a SIB start of 41 and above will make a regular appearance? I would say it's at least a year before owning a np50 has any use whatsoever.

 

[CyberPunk]

Maybe not right now but in time I would like to have the opportunity to do so, as it was for the future I bought my Bd implant once as you know this "game" isn't something you play 2months and are done with..

....all the chips which you could use with the Bd you can still use.

So it still serves the purpose you bought it for.

 

[chevrons]

Did you miss this part?

It's badly worded, and should be rewritten

Yes, OK, I see how it can be interpreted now.

But to return to the Bc/Bd discussion.

If the Bc decays more than the Bd, and the Bd still allows most players to use all the chips they have the skill for, then the Bd will have higher markup.

So why criticise MA? They have done what was necessary to preserve the relative value of the Bd.

But it was obvious that the old system had to go; it was absurd that only one Implant had value whilst all the others were little more than TT, so I think it was unavoidable that the absolute value of the Bd was going to fall, even if it remains the most valuable.

 

[CyberPunk]

Yes, OK, I see how it can be interpreted now.

But to return to the Bc/Bd discussion.

If the Bc decays more than the Bd, and the Bd still allows most players to use all the chips they have the skill for, then the Bd will have higher markup.

So why criticise MA? They have done what was necessary to preserve the value of the Bd.

Great point +rep

 

[-Archangel-]

Bigest issue as others already said is that MA creates a dangerous precedent. Maybe after some update tomorrow adj fap will be converted into Uber Fap 3k and mod in Uber Fap 1k "cause a from adjusted precedes m fom modified in alphabet".

They didn't made the Bd worse
All chips that could be used with it still can be used
and they improved its decay by decreasing it.

I don't call this a dangerous precedent

And what would be the problem if Mod FAP was updated to heal 160 for 0.8 PEC and adjusted to heal 170 for 0.7 pec ?

Maybe there is some bias in me because I don't own netheir and I'm happy that the Aa got an extreme boast.

 

[jenny ferr]

SO in the 5 years it takes you to get there, do you not think that the NP 60, 70, 80 will drop, and that chip requiring a SIB start of 41 and above will make a regular appearance? I would say it's at least a year before owning a np50 has any use whatsoever.

neither me or you know how quick this change will happen but ofc the higher ones will start dropping but I had the best(decay I let others care about I mean lvls) implant before today so why has it been degraded(or Bc upgraded past Bd)? And 5years, what if I started buying up all the skill implants out there today it wouldn't take me 5years not that I plan it but who knows maybe I'll change my mind...

....all the chips which you could use with the Bd you can still use.

So it still serves the purpose you bought it for.

ok it serves me as well as before thats good if it's the truth, but it's still a bug to get a lesser implant to be better then a higher previous one
(rarity and decay shouldn't matter at all(rare maybe because they looted from lesser hunted mobs?), the levels which you could use it with before is the only thing that should matter)

 

[Xen]

You guys aren't getting it. It doesn't matter if it can still use the chips it used before. That's irrelevant. What is relevant is relevant value. The Bd/40 should not be worth less now than the Bc/50. And it will be if MA doesn't fix it.

 

[CyberPunk]

You guys aren't getting it. It doesn't matter if it can still use the chips it used before. That's irrelevant. What is relevant is relevant value. The Bd/40 should not be worth less now than the Bc/50. And it will be if MA doesn't fix it.

IMO, the Bd was overpriced and the Bc should have cost more.....

Bc rarer, lower decay, fit the needs of most players (only a small handful of Bd owners NEEDED a Bd).

MA must see it this way too, hence the current stats being what they are.

 

[Xen]

IMO, the Bd was overpriced and the Bc should have cost more.....

Bc rarer, lower decay, fit the needs of most players (only a small handful of Bd owners NEEDED a Bd).

MA must see it this way too, hence the current stats being what they are.

Yes, they saw it that way, that's why in the B seris of implants, Bd was higher...

 

[Sarah]

A statement from a representative from MA would probably clear things out. Marco?

1. Is it intentional?
2. Of so, why change the best item in a series to become worse than the second best?



Hmm.. kindof feels like if they did a FAP revamp they'd make Imp FAP into HealerUltrox 50, and Mod FAP into HealerUltrox 40. Sort of..

 

[lilmoo]

Before:
bc 1-7
bd 1-9
af 4-10

Now:
bc NeoPsion 50
bd NeoPsion 40
af NeoPsion 20

 

[-Archangel-]

Hmm.. kindof feels like if they did a FAP revamp they'd make Imp FAP into HealerUltrox 50, and Mod FAP into HealerUltrox 40. Sort of..

Again I see no problem in a FAP revamp that did such thing as long as the stats and the functionality of the item doesn't change (by functionality I mean that it remains as a valid option to hunt down the bigest mobs ingame, no point saying it has the same stats when a daikiba young would do 140 damage)

So why don't we all start complaining that the Aa shouldn't had been changed to the best implant ingame for 95% of the player base ?
(chips that have between above 0 and bellow 10)

Or that the Ab is now better than (or equal to) any other when it comes to chips that require between level 10 and less than 20 ?
This boast was like making the FAP-50 better than Mod FAP and I only see people complaining that the Bd ought to be the best when they don't realize that the best isn't currently the former Bc but instead lots of implants that sold for TT+1.

I say we should be glad that MA decided to make mindforce a viable option
instead of biatching about the markup that was loss
(no function was loss and that is what matters in my opinion)

So you made a bet that that was the best implant ingame

Guess what lots of people also considered that Supremacy armor sucked big time in terms of decay
Do you want a better example than Supremacy armor ?

A statement from a representative from MA would probably clear things out. Marco?

1. Is it intentional?
2. Of so, why change the best item in a series to become worse than the second best?

Ok I agree that it would be interesting to know why they made such a decision bound to piss off lots of people when there was no advantadge in the near future forseenable by the players to have a level 50 or a 40 implant besides braging rights.

 

[Sloe]

Aren't people saying the higher one decays less? Last i checked it was ECO we sought after for things being expensive, NOT just being able to do something... That's why L users lose more ped than ppl hunting with eco on either unL sibs or using high skills on non sib... And u can still do EVERYTHING u could do bk then, ur just upset about potential FUTURE chips... Isn't this all just speculations from the very start?

I'm happy they made MF viable to actually use fro a change, tho it'll get some getting used to and i DEFINITELY don't think it was fair to take our implants out of our heads and leave us stranded wherever we were last login b4 this vu, when they originally tore those implants out our head in the first place.... Which we PAYED FOR.

I wasn't happy to have to call in a friend to deliver me an inserter and implant MA, a warning perhaps? You may forgot this, being on the receiving end of the money, but the avg person PAYS YOUR SALARY. Would u allow us free ammo? Why should we be ok with spending money when a rich company can't bring themselves to??

 

[Nikto]

IMHO that bug should be fixed.

 

[Sloe]

Are you guys not understanding that it IS the better chip? Last i checked an i2870 wasn't so expensive for dps alone, but for eco There's tons of guns that do more dps, does it make the i2870 a piece of junk? I know a few ppl who'd beg to differ.

I know i should let these things lie, cause they let more money in the system for ppl who figured out eco matters...

If it's a bug tho and it should support up to 50 then it would b nice to have the best of both worlds.

But why is it ppl realize that the eco is a massive determining factor in ALL other weapons and amps, but not here? I'd love to c the actual numbers, as i went by what others posted and i'm too angry to bother doing any math right now to figure out how much u save, to b perfectly honest, so if it IS NOT more eco, disregard this.

 

[Norbert]

Are you guys not understanding that it IS the better chip? Last i checked an i2870 wasn't so expensive for dps alone, but for eco There's tons of guns that do more dps, does it make the i2870 a piece of junk? I know a few ppl who'd beg to differ.

I know i should let these things lie, cause they let more money in the system for ppl who figured out eco matters...

If it's a bug tho and it should support up to 50 then it would b nice to have the best of both worlds.

But why is it ppl realize that the eco is a massive determining factor in ALL other weapons and amps, but not here? I'd love to c the actual numbers, as i went by what others posted and i'm too angry to bother doing any math right now to figure out how much u save, to b perfectly honest, so if it IS NOT more eco, disregard this.

The issue here is range of use, the Bd's were able to cater for more chips than the Bc pre VU 10, to reverse that is just plain wrong. Also afaik the Bd was more eco than the Bc also, at least that was what i was informed ingame in the past by a mindforce user. Most if not all high end MF users used the Bd implant for their skilling pre VU10, whichever way you look at this it seems like a mistake imo.

The mark up isn't so much of an isuue to me, it is more the reduced usefulness in chip ranges, especially as the Bc was pre VU10 a "weaker" chip in term of allowed range of chip use.

Btw i am really happy Mf is back, i really missed the old tp animations etc, but this has kinda soured things and made me kinda unconfident in buying high end stuff in the future.

 

[-Archangel-]

The mark up isn't so much of an isuue to me, it is more the reduced usefulness in chip ranges, especially as the Bc was pre VU10 a "weaker" chip in term of allowed range of chip use.

Is it that hard to accept that if something has an bigger boast than another it doesn't mean that the previously best got worse, nor less useful ?


To start there no reduction in the usefulness of the chip range of the former Bd

The NeoPsion 40 Mindforce Implant can be used with any chip ingame

As in the matter of future chips then I should remind that previously there was the possibility of MA to had introduced a level 10 chip which the Bd could not handle but a Ag could had, the Ag could not handle most useful chips and now can handle them all, so that is increase in usefulness at a cost of not handling chips above level 20 minimum requirement (I repeat none exist at the moment)

When is it expectable to see an chip requiring (recomended as far as I know doesn't mean the same, so if somebody knows if a Teleportation Chip VII can be used with a NeoPsion 10 Mindforce Implant or not that would be useful information) ?

Even if they exist who can use them anyway, looking at the others it probably could only reach the maximum of its SIB period above level 40 which to my knowledge means that less than 10 people are in such position (except in the damage profession due to the secondary skills)

And all to those biatching that their NeoPsion 40 Mindforce Implant got nerfed

do something constructive and post its current decay

oh you didn't even realize that it is lower than previously was

Everybody knew that Mindforce was going to be revamped

What is the surprize that some implants got better in an higher degree than other go better


Did that happened when MA changed the way armor decays ?
Yes

the message to retain is that all implants got better


Unlike the Potent Focus Chip -> Synchronization Chip XIV
that was a decrease in usability for some people
it used to prevent concentration loss while sweat gathering

the upside is that now it prevents synchronization loss with TP chips
so to most people it is most likelly a trade off with a gain

a gain so high that MA decide to nerf it costs to use to 8 times higher in terms of ME

 

[Norbert]

Is it that hard to accept that if something has an bigger boast than another it doesn't mean that the previously best got worse, nor less useful ?

blah blah blah yadayada...

Nothing can excuse taking a weaker range chip and making it better than a chip that was previously above the range of the Bc..

pre VU 10
Bc: 1-7
Bd: 1-9

If the previous implant that covered level 10 chips was made higher in usability i could understand, but to take a lower range one just makes no sense. I bought the Bd because of the wider range, otherwise i would have bought a Bc...

Don't get me wrongly though overall I am very happy Minforce is back , and overall i have let us say done rather nicely . Hovever i just see this as a dangerous precident regarding items, and actually i think is a mistake tbh.


.

 

[sirre]

Clearly this is a mistake by MA and not debatable.
pre VU 10
Bc: 1-7
Bd: 1-9
Hope MA fix this in there next exe

Not so happy about the nerf on the VIII heal with the shorter range, why?
If MA changes the stats on our items, the items we buy for real money it should be to the better not the other way around.
The whole idea with the VIII heal was the range 35 pre VU10 now 16 WHY WHY WHY???
Happy with the fact that this VU brings back the MF.

 

[-Archangel-]

Clearly this is a mistake by MA and not debatable.

It's a mistake since it piss off people (a lot of them and most of them heavy players/ depositers - no need for a Bd without having high chips => loose money on MF)

Not so happy about the nerf on the VIII heal with the shorter range, why?
If MA changes the stats on our items, the items we buy real money it should be to the better not the other way around.
The whole idea with the VIII heal was the range 35 pre VU10 now 16 WHY WHY WHY???

Have you tested it ?
Not only range is decreased but now you have to have line of sight to target

But economy seems to have improved

 

[Rony]

They didn't made the Bd worse
All chips that could be used with it still can be used
and they improved its decay by decreasing it.

I don't call this a dangerous precedent

And what would be the problem if Mod FAP was updated to heal 160 for 0.8 PEC and adjusted to heal 170 for 0.7 pec ?

Maybe there is some bias in me because I don't own netheir and I'm happy that the Aa got an extreme boast.

Because adj will be the most valuable after update and the mod will lose its value. Its the same as you keep your money in gold and God decides in one night to swap silver/gold ratio in unexplored resource. Gold will still be the same shiny metal, but since the silver is now the rarest metal, your economies will be screwed over night and you will end selling gold at old silver price.
I call it a dangerous precedent since as balance manager said, they always test things first on smaller scale, and this maybe a test for swaping something more valuable like top faps (there is a rumor that market contains more mod faps than supposed ..)

 

[-Archangel-]

Nothing can excuse taking a weaker range chip and making it better than a chip that was previously above the range of the Bc..

Are you sure that the 50 is better than the 40 ?

It decays more
No chip requires it at the moment,
those who will require won't be appearing for years to come,
when they apear it will make the Hedoc 600 requirements look noobish

 

[-Archangel-]

I call it a dangerous precedent since as balance manager said, they always test things first on smaller scale, and this maybe a test for swaping something more valuable like top faps (there is a rumor that market contains more mod faps than supposed ..)

It is not a precedent
Supremacy armor was sucky compared with the much better Shadow in terms of economy

Armor decay was revamped and Supremacy got its name to be worth it.

Same might happen to the 2500 deluxe FAP if healing gets revamped

Your opinion might be bias on the base that you have acess to a Mod FAP, a position only shared by a very few

So if you consider that as an investment

Look again to the past

MA has several times changed how things work

Ask taylors


And in terms of reliability

I just mention yesterday and the GC issue

Can a RCE have something like that happened ?
Auctions going on when the buyers are kept outside ?

Don't they have admins ?

I'll deposit once this game leaves open beta stage

 

[jenny ferr]

Unlike the Potent Focus Chip -> Synchronization Chip XIV
that was a decrease in usability for some people
it used to prevent concentration loss while sweat gathering

the upside is that now it prevents synchronization loss with TP chips
so to most people it is most likelly a trade off with a gain

Please tell me I got this wrong, Synchronization wont help at all in Sweating anymore? like the old focus was necessary to use while solo sweating??
If thats the case I call it a MAJOR bug which needs to be fixed now

 

[CyberPunk]

Please tell me I got this wrong, Synchronization wont help at all in Sweating anymore? like the old focus was necessary to use while solo sweating??

That is correct

 

[chevrons]

To start there no reduction in the usefulness of the chip range of the former Bd

The NeoPsion 40 Mindforce Implant can be used with any chip ingame

Maybe I haven't fully understood this yet, but aren't most chips useable with a Neopsion 10, and nearly all with a 20?

Shouldn't Bd owners be concerned that neither Bd nor Bc seems to be necessary any more, rather than with their relative value or usefulness?