Too many changes (IMO)

[BestGamerEver]

VU9 i say, again

 

[JohnCapital]

That's why I keep updating Entropedia...

And for which I'm very grateful. I've done my share of adding to Entropedia myself. And increasing that info is great. But as you said, it's when massive changes are done that upset me.

A lot of this reads as something that belongs in general discussion.

Well, actually, my post was "supposed" to be basically about how Entropedia is becoming less accurate/relevent not because of what we add, but because of what MA keeps changing. But the tone came out different.

Easy fix: let MindArk help out in updating entropedia...

As Minim rightly said...

That kills a big part of the game imo.

Reread my post. I love that we are(were) forced to discover things on our own. How much sweat can you pull from a mob? What kind of dmg does this thing do? etc. To have MA just hand over all that info would be...

So JC question are question everyone could look up on Entropedia?

Well, to that, it was quicker for my mates to ask in soc chat, where I'd reply within seconds because I knew the answer without looking it up.

But as you well know, there is also important knowledge to be had within that's not listed on Entropedia.

Ogi and several other SoF members used to call me "Akgoogle".

Yeah it's folks like you in each good soc that helps out their mates who may not have the time/abilty to find the needed information.

I recall when the biggest sweating changes occurred I'd picturd you at your desk beating your head against the keyboard since all that info you gathered would have to be redone all from scratch.



I understand true problems like the 1x0 that accidently had electric dmg added when it should not have. Sure, those are rare fixes that I get. But changing mob stats all the time?

These kinds of changes make no sense, other than to tweak the spend(tt decay) per activity in a way that simply upsets us all.

MA says they reduced the amount of mining gear, ammo, and other things in order to reduce the number of repeated items ingame (light/med/heavy ammo = ammo).

But then, they go make new BPs for new weapons that (according to them) use new components instead of using already ingame items.

Too many items in one hand. Too few items in the other.

How about this for a BP recipe?
Apis Mk.II
600 Vibrant Sweat
390 Blazar fagments
10 Bombardo
20 Gold ingot
3 Advanced Processor
17 Basic coil
12 Enhanced Electronic Fluid Memory

There, a way to use sweat, blazars, fruits, ingots, crafted components, and looted components (plus the residue). Took me about 1 minute, counting typing. Now I could spend 10 minutes tweaking the TT cost/click very easy before pushing it out. (obviously the Apis Mk.II requires a bit more work to balance. Considering past performances, I'd say that shoudl require a LOT more time to balance before pushing it out.)

How hard was that?

 

[Wollongong]

I agree, don´t keep changing the existing.

 

[Hijacker27]

Yeah I don't get why MA keeps adding more and more items into the game instead of just making all the old shit that has no use a part of the crafting process..

 

[SpikeBlack]

Yeah I don't get why MA keeps adding more and more items into the game instead of just making all the old shit that has no use a part of the crafting process..

After reading some of the Arkadia dev posts it seems that MA chooses this method to control the crafting rate of some BP's by reducing the drop rate of the components. Adding new items means their new BP's can then have the new components drop rate increased while reducing or even stopping certain ones dropping of the old BP's. Most of us knew this already but Ark confirmed it.

Arkadia chose to adjust their weapons rather than using this approach.

Personally I think MA painted themselves into a corner when they introduced SIB beyond the TT weapons and this is their latest idea to fend it off for a while.

 

[DavinFelth]

I fully agree with you JohnCapital , the game dynamics/laws are getting more dynamic then loot itself.

Im sure a few of you still remember the biggest milestone in Entropia history, the VU in late 2005 when Mindark announced they have now changed the stats of RepEdge Battle Axe 1x0. MA back then, claimed it was an bug they had overlooked for years.

Im trying to remember where Marco once wrote, that MA will never change stats on anything allready implemented in Entropia.

Since this milestone in 2005, we have had adjustments after adjustments, they seem to go more and more in favour of MA. I understand that Marco is no longer with us, and his old words dont mean shit now, in 2012.


Todays Entropia is so dynamic that I have no clue:
-If I should do a mission or wait for the reward to be changed.
-If I should buy a imk2 of wait for simular guns in L version at SIB100 for 101%
-If I should buy scanning skills, for only MA to reopen ability to skill scanning.
-If I should buy a certain set of armor to a mob, for only the dmg. type of mob to be changed.



Quite frankly Entropia now suck!

...and its not nostalgia , its a observation.

Good points! Part of the fun of the game for me has been in learning things and how it's always "evolving" the problem comes where it flat out changes and you can "expect" anything. All my knowledge goes out the window and a noob asks me a question and I have to say I don't know.... "What kind of dmg does an Allo do? " "Well it USED to be.... and.... , now I'm not sure."
A game that has a RCE should allow some more stability.

 

[Charlie Gloom]

I recently withdrew almost all my ped in game. Leaving my skills, I have money to deposit back in to play with. The problem I keep running into now is why? I have been on the fence as I got my money at start of redistribution of loot. The MU edge seemed to be taken away, why have skills if no more mu is given on a larger mob.

I like to hunt, If I cannot hunt the same mob with same size or bigger gun why return for mobs like aurli and kreltin (my favorites). I feel like MA is helping to drive people like myself away that have less time to play. I dont have but 1-2 hours a day free time to play, but i chose to in the past as it was fun. Is returning to play a lower level then when i left fun? and if so for how long will it be fun?

 

[NevadaJake]

I like learning new things in this game. I really do.

What I do NOT like is having all that knowledge slowly tossed out and relearned, instead of being added too.

My mates have had some questions in soc chat, and to a large amount of them recently I found my answer is "I don't know".

And even worse, I find I have no real desire to go find out the answer. It'll just change.

This is how I feel as well.

I also feel a lack of confidence towards investing very much money in items that can be turned into junk on a whim

 

[PaulCrystal]

Memories are just that.

Quite like the changes although I don't agree with all of them. In order to make EU interesting there need to be things altered, otherwise we would have to have new content introduced all the time in order to keep ppl entertained.

No, it's not too much.

 

[Lugzan]

... Long ago, we went from six pieces of armor to seven. (IIRC, a rare suit or two have yet to get footguards.) ...

ahh, the footguards...


J.

 

[Jimmy B]

MA is like the child that never learns, and burns his hand on a hot stove over and over again. If you look at the list of mobs that have been changed, you can see that one of them is a "brand new" mob, Rex. Also Levi, attackers and prot, are not "old" mobs. It just makes it so Clear that there are absolute No roadmap MA is following. Also the weapons that now got changed, are not old weapons.

Its just unbelivable sometimes, you would think getting burned for the 100th time would mean something.. but no... he burned his hand again..

Yes, I agree with you to some extent. I think new stuff could have been better thought out, and especially around the time new planets were going live for the first time, a much better roadmap should have been created.

At the same time though, there isn't a lot of precedent around for MA to learn from. It's not like they're building bridges and have hundreds of years of bridge-building knowledge to draw on. This is the first long-running RCE MMO, MA are going to make mistakes and we have to accept they'll have to rectify them. We can also hope they start to learn from them better though, and pass that learning down to future generations of MA.

 

[Spawn]

Didnt they also have lower ammo usage? Which made them more powerful SIB weapons for the player level that were more efficient?

That seems like the definition of overpowered to me. And overpowered is a good reason to be popular.

Why buy one of those crappy normal Calypso guns when you can get a more efficient weapon with lower requirements and the same damage?

I mean, go ahead and correct me if Im wrong on the stats somehow. I'll accept that. I dont use guns. But I dont think you can argue with the logic if my statement is reflective of the stats in question.

I've noticed it on swords too. Next Island and Arkadia swords beat the pants off of Calypso weaponry. Calypso's only advantage is that the weapons have higher TT, so you dont need 10 of them to do a decent hunt.

If something is overpowered and unbalancing the game it should be changed. Even though this is a virtual economy, the competition needs to be created by the players. Not by developer mistakes.

This isnt a new idea I've had either. I've long looked at the Herman series weapons with suspicion, for example, because of their extraordinary benefits over a comparable Calypso weapon. It's no surprise to me that these were nerfed. They needed it. Also Maffoids. I have commented in my soc chat many times that Maffoids had something strange going on with them. That their hit rate was not normal, and the mob was exceptionally easy for the loot drops and skill gains it provided. And yeah I used that advantage while I could. Check out what my favorite mob has been for the last 2 years....

"If something is overpowered and unbalancing the game it should be changed."

No it should not, Markup of those weapons should rise. Why philo/hero/archon are as cheap as they are beats me, same goes for the baringer sib guns.
There have always been differences in weaponry. What's the level needed to use a modfap? Modfap should decay a lot more, shouldn't it by your line of reasoning?

The players should decide how good a weapon is with the markup in the weapon. It's the crafters choice to sell the herman guns this cheap. Also a good balancing manager could make sure resources for very good weapons is scarce.
That's where the fuckups were made. Changing stats on weapons is not the normal way to handle things. In a healthy entropia economy philo blades would cost tt+1300-1500, same as the unlimited powerfist mentor edition (forgot the real name). In a healthy economy herman guns would have markup so they match the apis.
changing stats will only feed the lack of trust and make people quit and sell out.

 

[Spawn]

I will correct you, since you are wrong

Im not sure if we are talking about two seperate events here.
When MA removed the 7.0 electric damages from the Axe 1x0, it resulted in the DPS and eco beeing significantly lowered on the Axe. Making it not worth using anymore. I was using it to skill Longblade with, and I remember I changed weapon after that.

If you mean to say that the 7.0 dmg, where not used to begin with, you are wrong. Because the damage on the item itself where lowered. So it the electric damage was used on the axe.

No need to correct me, I know Im right.

Well you're wrong.
It was 5 damage. the 1x0 used to do 29 dmg, of which 5 was electric. Instead of turning the 5 dmg into cut dmg, the 4 extra dmg was removed by Mindark, causing a shit storm, and rightly so.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?6181-Axe-1x0-Change

and in it are the famous WOM (words of Marco)

Originally Posted by Marco
No, nothing has changed to the axes. If, and if, any items gets stat changes, it is announced. MA have a policy that items released are not altered, unless deemed a necessity. No such changes have been made to the axes. Period.

[FWAF]Slithik hello, i have a question concerning enblades. with the rise of the Axes and Crafted swords, will the enblades horrible decay perhaps be reduced? As it stands, EnBlades are strictly worse than the various metal melee weapons. Will there be any attempt to change the large gap in these to types of melee weapons?
Marco|MindArk If deemed so, possibly. But we are very reluctant to change items that are al ready in the virtual universe, as changes tend to disrupt stability.

 

[Kimmi]

Yes, I agree with you to some extent. I think new stuff could have been better thought out, and especially around the time new planets were going live for the first time, a much better roadmap should have been created.

At the same time though, there isn't a lot of precedent around for MA to learn from. It's not like they're building bridges and have hundreds of years of bridge-building knowledge to draw on. This is the first long-running RCE MMO, MA are going to make mistakes and we have to accept they'll have to rectify them. We can also hope they start to learn from them better though, and pass that learning down to future generations of MA.

You would think 10 years of experience would mean something.
The only thing positive about MAs constant changes and nerfs is that they are actually trying to plan ahead, meaning its unlikely they will shutdown the game in the next 2-3 years.

Tho you can never be to certain that each nerf is just a desperate attemt to turn negative budget in positive direction.

Well you're wrong.
It was 5 damage. the 1x0 used to do 29 dmg, of which 5 was electric. Instead of turning the 5 dmg into cut dmg, the 4 extra dmg was removed by Mindark, causing a shit storm, and rightly so.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?6181-Axe-1x0-Change

and in it is the famous WOM (words of Marco)

Originally Posted by Marco
No, nothing has changed to the axes. If, and if, any items gets stat changes, it is announced. MA have a policy that items released are not altered, unless deemed a necessity. No such changes have been made to the axes. Period.

[FWAF]Slithik hello, i have a question concerning enblades. with the rise of the Axes and Crafted swords, will the enblades horrible decay perhaps be reduced? As it stands, EnBlades are strictly worse than the various metal melee weapons. Will there be any attempt to change the large gap in these to types of melee weapons?
Marco|MindArk If deemed so, possibly. But we are very reluctant to change items that are al ready in the virtual universe, as changes tend to disrupt stability.

I just used the number 7.0 dmg from Akbar`s post, I assumed he knew what he was talking about. Im sorry, it will never happen again

 

[jetsina]

And even worse, I find I have no real desire to go find out the answer. It'll just change.

Yep - that is what I feel on 'the new planet'. Now I don't mind that I would start to find different stuff with deeper finder depth or so in mining - that's avatar advancement! But the lifetime of some knowledge is now just weeks. Things aren't just being added, other things are being CHANGED - and it becomes less and less easy to rely on ANY information, whether in your own memory or on an information site.

No real desire! ...... (and that is despite knowing that if average skills increase, then ofc changes need to be made. I think it should be loot-side, however, or mob stat side, ok, not weapon-side. Some things should be sacred, including the lvls weapons have in their stats)

 

[Magyar_Republic]

Am I the only person here who understands the essential hypocrisy in the statements:

It's fun to learn!

and

I dont want to learn these new changes?

Getting really tired of hearing that mantra. It is a contradiction.

 

[Wollongong]

Am I the only person here who understands the essential hypocrisy in the statements:

It's fun to learn!

and

I dont want to learn these new changes?

Getting really tired of hearing that mantra. It is a contradiction.

Yes, you are the only way who interprets it as hypocrisy. What the OP is saying is that it is fun to learn something new, but it is NOT fun learning about the same thing over and over, knowing that your knowledge is going to be obsolete next week again.

It's like getting in your car one morning, and suddenly the break pedal has been moved to the backseat....

 

[Magyar_Republic]

Yes, you are the only way who interprets it as hypocrisy. What the OP is saying is that it is fun to learn something new, but it is NOT fun learning about the same thing over and over, knowing that your knowledge is going to be obsolete next week again.

It's like getting in your car one morning, and suddenly the break pedal has been moved to the backseat....

I realize what the OP is saying, and no, its not the same thing. An online world by design is always fluid, in a state of change and modification. It's something you accept as part of the product when you download them and play them. It's been this way for 15 years. The RCE nature of EU does not exclude it from this category, it only means the risk is higher.

Ultimately I feel people are using mantras like this to cover up for the fact that they feel they are at greater risk at this point in time. and they don't like that risk exposure.

Anyhow, the mantra itself is simply not true. You dont stop liking learning because something evolves. You go back and figure out how that change affects you. Ultimately this time MA gave us the formulas, so there's actually very little learning involved. Just plug in the new values to existing formulas and move on.

TBH, people have gotten too comfortable, and in their comfort they have gotten complacent. Folks log on and grind Levi's all day. Folks hang out at new player areas and give formulaic responses. Folks (some of them) are simply not engaged. They are on auto pilot. This patch should be a wake up call. That things can and do change, and you need to be prepared to keep up with those changes.

 

[dr3w]

It's like getting in your car one morning, and suddenly the break pedal has been moved to the backseat....

And that's good - you will not break something!

 

[NevadaJake]

Yes, you are the only way who interprets it as hypocrisy. What the OP is saying is that it is fun to learn something new, but it is NOT fun learning about the same thing over and over, knowing that your knowledge is going to be obsolete next week again.

It's like getting in your car one morning, and suddenly the break pedal has been moved to the backseat....

Agreed. JohnCapital stated that he enjoys learning and adding to his knowledge. Not trying to figure out how things have been moved/nerfed/changed every couple weeks.

Maybe they are trying to change the overall type of game this is. To one where uncertainty causes players to tend to stick with less costly tools and make smaller investments. This would go a long way in changing the perception that Entropia is only a game for rich people.

 

[dr3w]

Agreed. JohnCapital stated that he enjoys learning and adding to his knowledge. Not trying to figure out how things have been moved/nerfed/changed every couple weeks.

Maybe they are trying to change the overall type of game this is. To one where uncertainty causes players to tend to stick with less costly tools and make smaller investments. This would go a long way in changing the perception that Entropia is only a game for rich people.

No. The base knowledge, the key itself isn't changing.

All those complains - it's like complain about different cards you getting each time, while playing poker.

 

[Farmer Smurf]

More like you sit down to play poker, you place your bet, and they switch the cards out at last minute, and replace it with checkers.

 

[dr3w]

More like you sit down to play poker, you place your bet, and they switch the cards out at last minute, and replace it with checkers.

Okay. You lost your bet. Move on.

Is it was your LAST bet, you haven't more money? You wasn't prepared.

 

[Farmer Smurf]

Okay. You lost your bet. Move on.

I might, if things get worse, when the new RCE launches. but until then I will ride it out.

If everyone moves on though, over things that could have been handled better....it would be a sad thing for EU no?

 

[dr3w]

I might, if things get worse, when the new RCE launches. but until then I will ride it out.

If everyone moves on though, over things that could have been handled better....it would be a sad thing for EU no?

We talking now about my favorite scenario - Falling Skies?

If so - I did said it many times. 10 years EU exists. And another one. There is huge monster-developers around. They even NOT TRIED to go in that niche.

Rings a bell?

 

[billairboy]

I think it's impossible not to allow MA to change stats that are "unbalanced" or when find something that they have missed. If we have ten mobs, nine "work as they should", but one mobs gives too much loot compared to the cost of killing it and compared too the other nine. What would destroy the game more, leave it as it is and all players only hunt that one mobs and leaving the other nine mob "useless", or fixing the "faulty" mob? Same with weapons and other items.

The one thing that they not should change is unlimited rare items, if not all other items are changed in a similar way. If all weapons have the average damage lowered with 10 %, it's also "okey" too do the same change on the unlimited weapons because it a change effected all weapons and the UL weapon have not changed in comparison with the other weapons in the game, which is the important thing.

MA most be allowed to make changes, otherwise it will be hard for them to adjust things that they have identified too be a problem for the balance. I choose to see the most recently changes as a sign that MA have a increased awareness about different issues and have increased their effort to keep things balanced with more strict rules to the planet partners.

 

[Jimmy B]

You would think 10 years of experience would mean something.
The only thing positive about MAs constant changes and nerfs is that they are actually trying to plan ahead, meaning its unlikely they will shutdown the game in the next 2-3 years.

Tho you can never be to certain that each nerf is just a desperate attemt to turn negative budget in positive direction.

True, but you could have written the same post five years ago. EU is still here

 

[Farmer Smurf]

Hows is the concept of players leaving for other games because of "to many changes IMO" off topic?

Seems to be exactly the point of the topic? Oh well moving on...nothing to see here foiks


Edit: ok I see where we drifted.

 

[JohnCapital]

First off, please no off-topic discussions about other games, please. The topic is this game changing established stats too often, not whether game "X" will enter RCE. Thanks.

Am I the only person here who understands the essential hypocrisy in the statements:

Others have already replied and said it well, but here's my take on it.

Some folks spent their hard earned money, mostly in TP chip jumps in order to figure out for all of us the exact revive borders.

I understand when those borders are affected due to hardware changes that can't be heped, but when those borders are changed just for change? Now players are expected to once again spend their own money to re-establish accurate maps for all of us.

That's just an example. There have been plenty of other cases where changes were made that truly did not "have" to be done. For example:

I think it's impossible not to allow MA to change stats that are "unbalanced" or when find something that they have missed.

Allophyll/Maffs have had those same stats for years (already went through one change back when given regen) and suddenly now it's been determined that for the health of the game, they must be tweaked up?

While SEG & Hogglo are tweaked down? (up/down being semi-relative. I know allo now have slightly less health, but overall...)

When considering the skill increase of the player base over the past 5 years, this makes no sense to me at all. Yes I know alos/maffs were easy and Hogs/Segs were hard. Now they're just a "tweak" bit closer together.

And what about the combining of all the mining gear?

That's your idea of "rebalanced"?

 

[Lugzan]

... SEG & Hogglo are tweaked down? ...

seen much activity on those last year or more? =)

P.S. just by pure coincidence both of those are located in the same tax region, you know, I'm not saying anything but...


please, do carry on


J.