Fed up!

[Tepes]

Why boring?

I like going on small mobs like prancer or plumatergus, for their skins.

Why is killing 1000 Atrox less boring than 1000 prancer ?

I really don´t get that argument.

Using small gun on pluma you can hunt very very long time with 80 bucks deposit.

I was a sort of answering an unasked question. As I was proved right, the OP feels that hunting lower mobs
at his skill and gear level is not challenging enough. Is something called adrenaline, and some need that more than others. Of course, as in RL the adrenaline seekers risk more than the regular players.

Myself I hunted prancers and it was fun, but after the hit-box update they become very hard to hit in manual aiming so the fun went away. Hitting a key in auto aiming against a bar definitely is not fun for me.

 

[das]

finally das! i waited the whole day for you to answer, didnt want to press it though... too bad we meet under those circumstances again, dark times!

Then you should've asked a question
Guess we'll see what the future brings... all I know for sure is that my break isn't over yet, my addiction on the other hand is..
Big mistake from MA.. I cycled more then enough for them to make a nice profit every month for several years.. Untill someone decided it was time to IMPROVE the lootsystem

 

[GoNi]

To have a high likelihood of getting a 90+% TT return, you need to kill at least 1000 mobs on your run (40 ped for punies, 10k ped for the 10 ped mob, and 60k for the big eomons). And this is just for ONE calculation period (call it a run). Even more buffer is better. So, take your ped card (800 ped), each mob should not cost more than .8 peds to kill... if your goal is to have a stable, predictable return. Killing less than this is what I call gambling: you don't have enough loot attempts to expect a stable, 90%+ return

Well maybe you are tight, but even if someone got 60k PED to kill 1k Eomon Stalkers.
In 1 run? Well that takes a while, even with best gear available. Who got that much time for 1 run ?

And then 60k PED in 1 run to get 90% is still 6k PED lost in 1 run

You see the problem ?

And there are mobs that cost more to kill, than Eomon Stalkers.

I play EU different, and I do fine.

 

[trance]

Ofc it's gambling. That's why MA won;t reveal how loot works to not fall under some online gambling law's ( lot of pl from USA here ). Just change "dynamic" for "random" whetever they use that word

try out a random generator, you get more lucky as with dynamic ..

 

[KingNobody]

You can do all those in a casino, but you're discouraged from picking up dung.



Gambling in EU means not having enough peds to get enough loot attempts be likely to get close to the standard "long term return".

Some examples of gambling:

A newbie takes out 1 ped of ammo to kill puny mobs. They will only kill at most 25 mobs and that's not enough to guarantee they will get any multipliers. The return will likely be as low as .3 ped. But of course they could hit a big one fast and come back with 10 ped.

A medium player takes out 1000 ped of ammo to kill a mob that costs 10 ped to kill. He will only kill 100 mobs and might not get any decent multipliers, and could easily end up with a 4 or 500 ped return. Or he could be lucky enough to get a 2k pedder.

A high level player takes out 10k ped ammo to hunt eomon stalkers which cost over 60 peds to kill. He kills only 156 mobs before running out of ammo. It is not unlikely that he will lose 5k ped in one hunt. Or he could get uber lucky and get an ATH.

Even if these players are not looking for the ATH, they're still gambling because with the few kills they're doing, it's not enough to be likely to get a good TT return. They might get a 90% return on a short run like this but they will most likely not.

To have a high likelihood of getting a 90+% TT return, you need to kill at least 1000 mobs on your run (40 ped for punies, 10k ped for the 10 ped mob, and 60k for the big eomons). And this is just for ONE calculation period (call it a run). Even more buffer is better. So, take your ped card (800 ped), each mob should not cost more than .8 peds to kill... if your goal is to have a stable, predictable return. Killing less than this is what I call gambling: you don't have enough loot attempts to expect a stable, 90%+ return.

I think the problem is that so many have high level skills and high dps equipment, but very few actually have the peds to easily hunt at their skill level. You should hunt at your budget, not your skills. One solution to this might be to hunt in teams.

(This ofc assumes you're using eco equipment.)

I think even the lowest level starter pack gives players plenty of ammo to kill 1000 punies (~40 ped), which is good, as it prevents newbies from taking a ped of ammo out, losing it all on a few mobs and concluding that "this game sucks".

With mining, it's a little different, you should have at least 2k ped (5k is more comfortable) ped buffer because of all the stacks you have to collect, and this forces you to do lots of drops which means you're likely to have close to 90-ish percent return by the time you have to sell your stuff.

In other words:

if cycling your ped card almost always results in 90% or more returns = not gambling
if cycling your ped card frequently results in significantly less than 90% returns = gambling.

This post should be stickied for the benefit of all. It's the most succinct hunting economy tutorial I've seen yet, and it explains what most of the playerbase are doing wrong in terms of managing their returns.

 

[SamNinja]

I sincerely reaped so much out of this entire thread. I've gleaned a myriad of information -- more than I expected when I silenced my phone, cleared appointments, and sat down at the computer with a torrid cup of steaming, sensational coffee and spent magnificently precious moments reading, savouring, and remembering all the wonderful ideas and points of view passed around. I have preserved and uploaded this thread to a cloud backup, and printed it out to lock it away in a bank safe deposit box.

 

[Norbert]

This post should be stickied for the benefit of all. It's the most succinct hunting economy tutorial I've seen yet, and it explains what most of the playerbase are doing wrong in terms of managing their returns.

Aye good post by Neil for sure.

 

[Parlog]

i feel like the guy in plato´s cave allegory, when he returns to his people deep in the cave and tells them about the outside world, the sun the real things and they only laugh at him, because all they know are shadows on the wall.

Something goes badly wrong here. Lets bring some old words into play, how about mob-ladder and game balance on all levels?

"Its dynamic" means there is change, its the last hope i have. The recent changes have been labeled "fair", in fact they are unfair, because unbalanced. I am talking about live and let live, so far i was able to blame myself for my mistakes and to pat my shoulders for my achievements, techincally i was free. Now i am incarcerated in the avatar that i play. Every move i make is a sure loss, yes punys too, i tried that out. Oh sry maybe i didnt create enough loss yet hunting punies to make them pop more than a 3 ped mini.

I mean its awesome we have a rush of new players in EU and they seem to cope with the situation fairly well. But its pure egocentrism and stupidy to think things will go on forever like that. For one reason, if you play a lot, one day you will wake up in my shoes, same skills, same equipment (or better) and you might wonder, if all the time and money was worth it. The mob-ladder stops here, even worse, the last 20 steps down are broken too.

How hard could it be to global a warrior? I want to see one guy grinding (ordinary) warriors who tells me that he is doing good on them. Two of the best WoF teams failed to get a single global on warriors in their first match. For example Team DACH a week ago or Team Sweden yesterday. New players have no idea what this means, (how many warriors we are able to kill in 3 hours with the mass of support we got) old players stay silent or call me stupid for even attending WoF under those circumstances. Thats it. No sights of a civil disturbance, everybody just fell silent and bows to the king who points on an advice that has nothing to do with live and let live. I checked MAs update information of the last year 3 times and couldn´t find a hint of the "loot-distribution-changes" a few months ago. Did they get deleted, and if they got deleted "why"? Are they too unpopular? I have read them, someone gave me the link, after i had a twentysomething ped-global a few months back on small Atrox and wondered WTF? I ranted something, logged back out and stayed off for several more months. I bet that didnt exactly help to let your loved ROI climb, neither the one on CLDs in player hands, nor the ROI of MA, First-planet-whatnot-company and partners. I´d be happy if someone could post the link to the information about the changes in the loot-distribution-changes here.

Someones taking someone for a fool here and the reason is either ignorance, greed or a really bad problem that needs to stay hidden at all costs. I feel the fear of people who stay silent because they are afraid to lose even more, on the other side i see the blind ignorant joy of youngsters who think they found this MMORCE-universe to be the right place in the right time.

Oh and one thing about gamble. If i would think this is a Casino of some sort, i wouldn´t raise my voice, id give a F. If you still play against the system and have no clue what youre doing, your loot will be random, your gameplay is pure gamble. But i see this game as dynamic because i am past playing against the system, i play with and against other players, they are (or should be) the dynamic factor of EU.

I really advice new players to stick to Neils post but i really advice the older players with huge investments in the game to force a change, a rebalancing of the loot for midlevel players and up. The sooner the better, because we are the back spine of the game, not MA, not the newbies, its us! MA heads should really make their mind up about the future of EU or we will slowly starve and die out. I do not believe this will have a good impact on the annual reports, not at all...

 

[dobrinocb]

Last night 2x Empty level 7 amps and 1x D-class EMPTY!!!!!!... Thats about 550 loss for like 40 min or less


Your looses for so much hunts hours is nothing so stop cry and go kill some stuff

 

[remontoire]

How hard could it be to global a warrior? I want to see one guy grinding (ordinary) warriors who tells me that he is doing good on them. Two of the best WoF teams failed to get a single global on warriors in their first match. For example Team DACH a week ago or Team Sweden yesterday. New players have no idea what this means, (how many warriors we are able to kill in 3 hours with the mass of support we got) old players stay silent or call me stupid for even attending WoF under those circumstances. Thats it.

You need to kill at least 200+ Warrior Gen 01-03 to get a global. At least I do.

 

[DavinFelth]

Last night 2x Empty level 7 amps and 1x D-class EMPTY!!!!!!... Thats about 550 loss for like 40 min or less


Your looses for so much hunts hours is nothing so stop cry and go kill some stuff

Yea that's just another example of the BS i'm talking about. Mining is something I won't even go into talking about.

 

[Jennson]

.... I´d be happy if someone could post the link to the information about the changes in the loot-distribution-changes here.
......

Well there were no changes made official to the loot distribution. However a quick search on the forum and in my history thread got the impression the 14.1 low global threshold update was the change :

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...te-14-1-Sneak-Peek&highlight=global+threshold

However it must have been closely before as THIS threads suggests: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...ing-System-changes&highlight=global+threshold
( it was dated before the sneak peak ).

If the observation is true, then the change appeared in 14.0 , 14.0.1 or 14.0.3 ( Where was 0.2 ? ). And no it was not announced.

Note to myself: found what i was looking for my history thread - need to update.

 

[moondog]

You can do all those in a casino, but you're discouraged from picking up dung.



Gambling in EU means not having enough peds to get enough loot attempts be likely to get close to the standard "long term return".

Some examples of gambling:

A newbie takes out 1 ped of ammo to kill puny mobs. They will only kill at most 25 mobs and that's not enough to guarantee they will get any multipliers. The return will likely be as low as .3 ped. But of course they could hit a big one fast and come back with 10 ped.

A medium player takes out 1000 ped of ammo to kill a mob that costs 10 ped to kill. He will only kill 100 mobs and might not get any decent multipliers, and could easily end up with a 4 or 500 ped return. Or he could be lucky enough to get a 2k pedder.

A high level player takes out 10k ped ammo to hunt eomon stalkers which cost over 60 peds to kill. He kills only 156 mobs before running out of ammo. It is not unlikely that he will lose 5k ped in one hunt. Or he could get uber lucky and get an ATH.

Even if these players are not looking for the ATH, they're still gambling because with the few kills they're doing, it's not enough to be likely to get a good TT return. They might get a 90% return on a short run like this but they will most likely not.

To have a high likelihood of getting a 90+% TT return, you need to kill at least 1000 mobs on your run (40 ped for punies, 10k ped for the 10 ped mob, and 60k for the big eomons). And this is just for ONE calculation period (call it a run). Even more buffer is better. So, take your ped card (800 ped), each mob should not cost more than .8 peds to kill... if your goal is to have a stable, predictable return. Killing less than this is what I call gambling: you don't have enough loot attempts to expect a stable, 90%+ return.

I think the problem is that so many have high level skills and high dps equipment, but very few actually have the peds to easily hunt at their skill level. You should hunt at your budget, not your skills. One solution to this might be to hunt in teams.

(This ofc assumes you're using eco equipment.)

I think even the lowest level starter pack gives players plenty of ammo to kill 1000 punies (~40 ped), which is good, as it prevents newbies from taking a ped of ammo out, losing it all on a few mobs and concluding that "this game sucks".

With mining, it's a little different, you should have at least 2k ped (5k is more comfortable) ped buffer because of all the stacks you have to collect, and this forces you to do lots of drops which means you're likely to have close to 90-ish percent return by the time you have to sell your stuff.

In other words:

if cycling your ped card almost always results in 90% or more returns = not gambling
if cycling your ped card frequently results in significantly less than 90% returns = gambling.

I have to concur with the above and it should be set in stone at the entrance to the starter mission and at twin peaks...................

however................

I do have a question regarding the multipliers. Are we saying that you will only get multipliers by cycling on the same mob. If not then the multipliers should happen regardless (it just depends how much you depo?) even if you change mob. Surely MA cant expect you to cycle 10k ped on one mob in order to obtain the magical 90% return.

I

 

[Neil Stockton]

I really advice new players to stick to Neils post but i really advice the older players with huge investments in the game to force a change, a rebalancing of the loot for midlevel players and up. The sooner the better, because we are the back spine of the game, not MA, not the newbies, its us! MA heads should really make their mind up about the future of EU or we will slowly starve and die out. I do not believe this will have a good impact on the annual reports, not at all...

I do agree with this... MA should rebalance big mobs so that you don't need to go out and kill so many of them to get a decent "average" return, and still preserve the ability for them to loot big occasionally. I mean think about it... I can understand why a high level player should pay 2x as much, even 10x times as much as the low-mid level player in order to keep playing at his high level but we're talking about needing over a thousand times as much ped to hunt high level vs low level. So it's not so much about skills but the size of your ped card that determines if you can succeed hunting at high skill levels, it seems to me more people would be excited to skill up if it were more about skills.

 

[narfi]

if this is true, all WoF is always gamble! Well done MA!

Of course it is a gamble, its a player held event and difficult by design for the competition.

One thing that stuck out to me is the inconsistent hunting style. (killed 100 of mobX, 75 of mobB, 100ped on mobY, and took the left over ped and hunted mobU)
In my mind that is a very dangerous way to hunt, esp. on a low budget.
Study and research (sometimes cost you peds to accomplish) until you find the proper nich you want to participate in, and then fully commit yourself to it over an extended period of time. IMO that is the ONLY way to have success without gambling.

A lot should go into that research though its not as simple as it seems.

1. It should fit the budget you have alloted.
2. It should produce consistent markup as well as potential jackpot markup. (chasing just one or the other will never be enough)
3. It should fit the skill set you have to be most efficient.
4. It should fit the gear set you have to be most efficient.
5. It probably should not be an activity that lots of others are already doing. (new planets make this easier)


An example:
$150 a month depo budget = 1500ped
500ped cycled an hour (rough numbers) = 50ped an hour AVERAGE loss to MA.
1500/50 = 30hrs of play = 1hr a day

If you can milk 5% average markup from regular loots + jackpot loots then your play time is doubled.
500ped cycled = 50ped an hour AVERAGE loss to MA + 25ped an hour from markup = 25ped loss per hour
1500/25 = 60hrs a month or 2hrs a day. (grinding only, you still have the extra auction, restocking and social time)

If you can milk 8% average markup from regular loots + jackpot loots then your doing decent.
500ped cycled = 50ped an hour AVERAGE loss to MA + 40ped an hour from markup = 10ped loss per hour
1500/10 = 150hrs a month or 5hrs a day. (grinding only, you still have the extra auction, restocking and social time)

If you play more than 7hrs a day (5hrs grinding + 2hrs in the cities/terminals etc...) then either Money isn't an issue for you (in which case depo more and play for fun), You should be spending that time finding a JOB! (in which case you shouldn't be playing anyways), or you are unable to work for some reason (health, political, economical, family, etc...) and probably shouldn't be depoing 150 a month on a game anyways.

My personal approach to the game is to not have 0 sum months, but to plan on my losses being less than my depos each month in order to upgrade. This is the only way that a normal working class player can afford UL gear, but if done properly the current UL gear is VERY affordable and attainable on a $150 a month budget.

This is all stuff you have seen and read before here on the forums, but it seems to be a concept that is so easily forgotten. (mission mobs have a way of blinding people to any intelligent play style)

Narfi
- long term fanboy currently frustrated with MAs ethics but still a fan of the system/concepts
- Wife and I combined depos <150 per month and we both have UL weapons and amps and 'okish' armor.

 

[GoNi]

deleted by user

 

[narfi]

rofl, you said in other post it needs 1k kills to get average 90% return.

Can´t kill 1k mobs in 1hour no matter what, even with 1 shot kills its impossible.

So explain, how should I hit that 1k mobs / run, if I play 1h / day.
Never will get that 1k mobs in 1 run.

EU should be playable on the base 1h / day, but by your definition this is gambling.
Only choice we have, gamble or don´t play!

I am not for don´t play!

Go on with your wiseness, I am out. Its laughable.

You could probably take a cheap statistics class at a local college or university. Some of the basics taught there will help to make sense of this.

Yes, I do believe you need a larger kill count to average out (1k+ mobs)
Yes, I do the math on a per hour basis.
No, Each hour is not exactly the average. (obviously thats what average means...... all added together and then averaged out... I don't know how else to explain this it is like trying to explain how 1+1= 2)

Do the math, and put yourself in a position to manage your losses over time, otherwise you are gambling.

You can NOT play with enough ped for 1hr and expect to be able to play for a month, that is moronic. (no offense)

The concept of budgeting is that you sit down before you ever take any action (before you depo, and before you grind)
The concept of a budget is that you know at the beginning of the month what you are willing to spend and how you will spend it and what you will have at the end when the month is over.
This is not 1hr (unless that is what you have decided to budget for the month), this is the entire month.

How long does it take you to kill 1000 of whatever mob you want?
-Are you willing to dedicate your play time rather it be 1hr a day or 24/7 until you have accomplished that?

How much ped do you need to cycle to kill that 1000 creatures?
-Do you have that much ped on your card right now?
--If not, then you are probably gambling or playing above your budget.

It is simple introductory math, it is not rocket science. You are adults here, act like it.

Here, I will do the math for you.
If you are killing mobs that cost 10ped to kill, then you better have 10k ped on your card before you even think about starting. And you should expect to loose at least 1k ped in the process. And you better pray that you did your research and are able to extract some markup from it in the process.

 

[GoNi]

You can NOT play with enough ped for 1hr and expect to be able to play for a month, that is moronic. (no offense)

Its not about the PED.

I can have the PED for 1000 Feffox at my card, but don´t have enough free time (still got a job RL), to hunt 1k Feffox in 1 run.

So I gamble, as it is impossible for me to kill 1k mobs in a row (independant of money available), just because there is not enough time doing it.

Following another theory (Loot Pool), it may be possible to kill lets say 200 mobs today, and continue tomorrow every day untill hit the 1k mobs (theoretically done in 5 days), its very likely that what I already lost in the first days is looted by someone else befor I got the chance to continue with my 1k kills adventure.

I never will get to an average loot! As the 1k in 1 run just is impossible for me, so why the hell should I continue with EU.

Actually I am not following your theory and do quit good.
Never ever killed 1k mobs in a row, never dropped 1k probes in a row.

Hit my fair share of globals, and even HoFs and UBERs in my history.
By your definition I am gambler, actually I don´t see me as gambler, because I consider every dime deposited into EU as a loss (payment for fun!), and never expect hitting nice HoF (anyways happy if it it happens).

I like to hunt way above my level, just to test if I can do it.
I don´t care that much about eco, still use old style gear maxed at LVL100 (I am not LVL 100), I choose that because it is cheap to buy. Never ever will pay +5k for a gun or piece of armor. Even if I hit 200k ATH, I wouldn´t do that, there is much better options what to do with that PED.

I am here to have fun, and thats not counted by % PED return, its counted by hell that was great experience.

Remember my first Neconu ever killed in EU, that was such great died 10 times on that one.
Remember my first ever Falx killed, hell what a though fight.
Remember my fist ever Formicacida Majestic, mean bugs I can tell you.

Thats the fun I pay for, I don´t care if I lost some PED on it. Well nice if it globals, even better if I see an uberloot.

Sure hunting big is expencive. If it is to expencive for you don´t do it.
It may pay out or not, doesn´t matter as long you like doing what you do in EU and have fun doing it.

There is always an option to downgrade your hunting, when running low on PED and still have fun.
I do that regularly, enjoy killing some small mobs (well no puny that sucks), but something I can kill with TT guns without armor and without faping. Still have fun doing that.

For me EU is a hobby aswell as playing billard.
Both hobbys come to nearly the same cost, what is about 20 € for about 3h fun mainly at weekends.

Call me a gambler if you want, but I am not!

It matters what you expect from EU, that makes you a gambler or not.

People like me, who know there is nothing to win, still have fun and pay for it are not gamblers.
People who are here to hit the big UBER ATH, to get rich from EU, those are gamblers!

 

[Scurvy Sityl]

The 1000 mobs don't have to be done all at once. It's just that if you look at portions that are lower than that, you're going to have a skewed view of how you are doing.

For example, if you looked at only a gallon of water from the ocean, you'd conclude there's no fish, let alone whales, in the ocean. But of course, the sample size is too small. (Alternatively, if you DID find a fish in there, you'd conclude that there is one fish for every gallon, which would also be an overestimation).

If you can only kill, say, 100 of a mob in an day, that's fine, but just add your totals for 10 days to get a decent idea of what "one run" would look like.

Edit: Note that this doesn't require a loot pool to work. It's just statistics.

 

[Arch]

It's not the loot that kills you, it is the hope!

 

[Wollongong]

For some odd reason, I notice I am starting to move in my position in this matter.
While I continue to feel that it is not, by definition, wrong that you an easily lose 1000 ped in an hour or something, it is not quite right that if you play the game "right" you can still suffer such huge losses.

I also feel that a "normal" monthly amount (WoW charges € 13 a month, so let's say € 15 a month deposit) should allow you to get through the month playing at a reasonable fun level. Ok, you won't be able to do hardcore crafting for that month, or hit the huge mobs, but there should be a clear range of mobs you can do reasonably well at. Not just puny, but also the occassional argo and/or foul or so...

 

[ermik]

Following another theory (Loot Pool), it may be possible to kill lets say 200 mobs today, and continue tomorrow every day untill hit the 1k mobs (theoretically done in 5 days), its very likely that what I already lost in the first days is looted by someone else befor I got the chance to continue with my 1k kills adventure.

Actually no, however its very likely you will see a 90% return after those 5 days and go "OMG WOW, i can see clearly now, all them fanbois were actually trying to help me understand, wow!"

Havent deposited a single ped since 2010, im currently working the 60k feffox mission, the 60k mission alone is like 6.666 feffox young , or around 35.000 ped cycled.

The crazy part?, Without having any crazy ass luck, any big ass hofs, etc etc etc..

Im doing just fine, around 93% tt return and about 48.000 points into the mission....

But, i dont challenge neither the game or myself, i hunt young-mature , i hunt around 1h per day ( But it should be impossible! ) , nope its just statistics...

How is it, that when a fanboi cycles 10k ped, he have 9200 ped tt left , and some MU on top.

and when a "Id like to skill my ava as fast as possible, while using cheap nonsib guns, at the same time having as much intense challenging fun as i can, also shifting mobs at a rate that would give a guy with adhd a hard time following" player cycles 10k ped , he ends up with 4000 peds.....

How is that so?, i mean the system just respond in the SAME WAY TO ALL.

If you get the same result each time, perhaps thinking in a different way can be a good idea.

Or, you can ask on forum that you would like the system to be changed, just because it doesent fit your idea of how the game should be, and thats fine, but i dont want it to change, and im sure most people who actually work "with" the game, instead of "against" it, agree with me.

And no, the above is not entirely against you GoNi, its more of a standard definition of the forum "whiner" if i may call it that.

1. Go out and kill in a row 1k mobs, make sure to be able to do it with current ped card balance.

2. Do the hunting in the most economical way possible for your level both skill and gear wise.

3. Save ALL loot in storage, no you dont need to save BLP and Laser ammo.

4. NO! dont even think of joining that teamhunt, or doing that shared HUSSK in the middle of your 1k mobs venture.

5. Read point 4 again!

6. NO, what did i tell you! , Keep focusing on the 1k mobs.

7. Now , if you followed the instructions in 1-3 , and managed to not fall into old behaviour, you should after 1k mobs have somewhere between 85-95% tt return, ( depending on how well you managed to be eco, choose mob, etc )

8. Yes its fully natural for this 1k mob sample to actually take some time, for me it should be around 5-10 days, oh and yes, it can sometimes be mentally frustrating if you feel like hunting something else, but guess what, chatting with soc mates or something like that is OK, it wont ruin your "run"

Now, take it for what its worth but somewhere under this wall of "making some people look bad" text, i actually try to help people, and it happens to be the same people of whom i could be assumed to try and make look bad, wich ofcourse is not my intention, at all.

And again, if you feel, i dont want to play EU like that, well you dont have to, but dont expect the game to magically change according to your standards, it will come down hard on you, and that is most likely why we are having this conversation.

Addition! If you for some reason have to kill a different mob during your "run", make sure that its a mob of around same HP level as the one your currently hunting.

 

[SirAzzah]

Sorry to hear about the bad loot Davin. We all go through good and bad swings but need to be able to cycle through the bad swings to get to the good swings...
My suggestion would be to save up a 5-10k ped bankroll to allow you to stock up on loot and sell for markup as well as maybe capitalizing on some opportunities that come about. The extra markup is important to cushion our bad runs.

Cheers,
Azzah

 

[PW3CKA]

Basically what Ermik and Azzah said.

Going in with few hundred peds, and doing a hunt on 5 different mobs really tends to give crazy rezults (either plus or minut) but hardly the average 90%..

I can tell you I would not maybe even start shooting small Atrox with 900 peds , I would probably go argonaut or something

Also with 900 ped, it's a fucking overkill to go and get ur125.. with 900 peds , hunt only what you can hunt w/o armor and fap. This helps you to kill more creatures, getting closer to the average return.

And yeah, 900 peds is anyway too little to keep your loot stacks. ^^

So maybe with 900 ped, go un-amped mining?

You play EU for long time to know how it fucking works (At least roughly)

 

[chronos]

I also feel sorry for you, but ive also been there. Dont focus on gettin rich, focus on surviving and most of all have fun. If you treat it like any other mmo, where you have a constant fee of maybe 20$/month, think like that here too. But in this game you can decide yourself what fun you would have for those bucks.
And follow ermiks tips, they are good.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

- Albert Einstein

 

[Haruto Rat]

So maybe with 900 ped, go un-amped mining?

For comfortable unamped mining, one needs at least 2...3k bankroll these days. With 900, you cannot maintain sufficient storage, so you either are limited in your region choice or have to deal with street traders. Well, the latter might work on Caly if Arvin is still around.

Also, loot swings are [bold][red][flash]BAD[/bold][/red][/flash] lately.

 

[trance]

Only one rule in that game!

THE BANK WIN EVER! no matter what you do.

 

[Piotr]

Only one rule in that game!

THE BANK WIN EVER! no matter what you do.

Thats true in EU if viewing players as mass, however its possible to TT profit in hunt (in this case bank still wins cause it comes from other player's)

 

[WhiningSkeptic]

Only one rule in that game!

THE BANK WIN EVER! no matter what you do.

You're not supposed to play the bank if you want to profit, you're supposed to play the players.

 

[Parlog]

Actually no, however its very likely you will see a 90% return after those 5 days and go "OMG WOW, i can see clearly now, all them fanbois were actually trying to help me understand, wow!"

it was like this for me for years, and now my results are nowhere near that anymore,thats actually one thing why i wrote all this. Another reason is the newest good advices, the reactions, the warnings and the resignation and the silence (or is it a strike?) from other players, which pretty much indicates that i am not alone with my problem.

Second i totally disagree on that the system responds in the same way for all. Each and every response is unique. Only the caps are similar.

to your points 4. 5. and 6. i have a total different experience here. I often went this way so far, that my socm8s started saying its a pity that i dont do teamhunts with them anymore. Well i didnt change that so far.

You and me should cut out our participation in WoF in this dispute. I am trolling my team and my society just as much as on pcf

-
I really wonder in how far 2 players can compare to each other and to what extend. Probably not at all. The book of the loot-algorythm might be as thick as the telephone book of Chicago and each and every existing factor could have a variable in it. It could go so far that things happening on another planet directly and also indirectly influence my loot on this planet. (example for indirect influence: Narfi crafted a gun on Rocktropia and one guy in my spawn on Caly is using it and it only screws my loot for the reason that Narfi crafted it and noone else. example for direct influence: Someone hits a 100k ATH on Rocktropia and loot is dead dry in the whole universe for 14 days), it could be that my loot is so bad because a relevant skill and/or level-bar of mine is 25 points short or respectively a few % short to next rank/level (i have a major skill in that range and best i can manage is to get 1 skillpoint every 4k ped cycled hunting toughest mob). It could even go so far that an variable exists in the loot-algorythm for your experiences, your expectations, your mood, your mental stability, your luck, your successes, your reputation amongst other players, your future plans, how focused you are, how chatty you are, how deceiving you are and one for how many layers your tinfoil hat has by now. You might call me stupid on this, but TECHNICALLY its possible, no deal. Maybe there is not one loot-algorythm but a million, billion, trillion possible loot algorythms, maybe theres only one but its fractured in a million, billion, trillion pieces, maybe both combined, running one after another, running simultaneously interacting with each other or beeing put on and off by MA officials at will (multifragmental loot algorythm theory). Maybe the guy who invented the loot algorythm has an IQ of 180 or a whole thinktank with people at that level of thinking. You will not be able to trace it and riddle it out, even if deep blue stands in your living room, programed by an armada of IQ 160 programmers.

Why i post these thoughts: From the earliest days on i started to read Ermiks posts (many years ago) i had the impression that we might play the same game, even do the same or very similar things, but have almost no matching experiences at all. That really puzzled me over the years, and has led me to thoughts like the ones above.
-
Happy to hear someone is happy to hunt feffox. If you can make it out there, you can make it anywhere.
It should be a hint enough that it doesnt take an insane ammount of ped as turnover to hunt a level 90mob. Bad enough it has a sick regeneration. Thx for your post Ermik (gotta spread around+rep...), i got absolutely no reason to believe you want to make me or someone else look bad.

still the problem persists, i hear nobody else in your skill-ranges speaking that confident about the new loot distribution. Also i think i learned nothing new in your post, it could have been written 2 years ago if not 10. Back then this hunting style was common sense to everybody above level 30. I am still doing it, i bet many are still doing it, but why do we suddenly have such a hard time with it? Because something changed and i have a bad bad feeling about that change.