Is Entropia a game? Thoughts and debates about fun.

[Eldaii]

How can you define EU as a game? debates about fun and gameplay.

Ok so i edit this OP because it is not clear enough.

for new visitors who don't want to read all the thread to understand what its about, i'll resume :

the gameplay of Entropia is actually a point & click. you click, you loot and skill. With RCE part of course which makes ALL OF THE INTEREST in the game.


so now the question :

- could the gameplay be improved by MA without impacting the economy?

a few examples for you to understand exactly :

- in hunting, its slow, mostly auto clic, and clearly not what we can call exciting.
-could there be improvements like aiming at mob? which result in a mob moving to evade shots and you trying to shoot at it (as there is no ammo used when you miss, no impact on current game, only more armor decay if you are bad)
- could it be like FPS games with realistic automated rifles? you keep key pressed and the rifle shoots continuously (there will be pb with dps, then just lower the ammo cost, and improve mob health, the result is the same as now in term of dps and dmg/pec/mobhp)
- active skills?
- in mining, its also possible, its always possible, what ideas would you have?
- same with crafting
- same with vehicles
- etc etc

In conclusion, you don't want more from EU?

Don't you think a much funnier gameplay would increase drastically new player retention?

etc

you got it

 

[Fiona Simmons]

If you treat Eu like a game it is and if you dont it isn't.

For me its a platform where i can interact with other persons , do mini games in hope of looting someting out of ordinary and engaging in money generating activities. For others its like a full time job and someone else might enjoy the grind and the idea of getting that ath and treat Eu like a game.

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

The game used to have the slogan, "More than a game".

I think that's very true and they should have kept that. The RCE aspect is what makes it all too "real" because it's real money at stake it has a big effect on player psyche, motivation, feelings etc...

The management part can be considered as a business simulator where you have full control over your investments, money management. Trends and speculations all play a part etc etc.

In the end it all depends on the type of game you want to play. You can choose your path or mix and match to your liking.

 

[Fifth]

- Grinders (same action repeated over and over)
- Traders (job)
- Gamblers (casino)

I would add 1 more here:
- Fooling around for fun
Meaning, ppl who have no goals whatsoever, no skilling up (either already skilled up to sufficiently high level or simply ignoring the whole aspect) and not trying to make money either. Their online time is mostly spent in events, teamhunts and socializing. The playerbase of EU is in many ways unique, "an aristocracy of gaming" maybe sounds a bit too grandiose but it's not far from truth.

what is grinding in entropia?

- click - autoclick - loot/skill - click - autoclick - loot/skill
- no brain needed
- no skill (i mean, real skill/agility) needed

Was a heavy grinder for many years and i think this is a bit oversimplified. It seems last years EU has indeed taken the direction towards nobrainer/purely mechanical grinding. The heaviest blow was implementation of Autoaim/Next target functions. However, there's still quite a few relics from the earlier game mehanics. Let me explain:

1st example, the ninja spawns. There is those true ninja spawns where the game drops a mob on a hunter. What most ppl are talking about, however, is not a ninja spawn at all. It's instead inability to figure out how the specific mob spawn works (how exactly aggro works, how long is the average respawn cycle, etc). As a result somebody who can anticipate the actions of mob/spawn AI moves around freely while the dumb one stands on one spot (too long) and gets hit by the respawn wave. And then goes crying on the forums...

2nd example, mob specs (HP, damage, speed, aggro range), mob AI and spawn AI (for the lack of the better term) can be quite different. There's those "average" mobs that can be hunted with any weapon while standing on one spot for hours. No brain required (exactly as described above).
And then there's also a whole selection of specific mobs (on every planet) that require quite different weapons at times, specific armor sometimes or certain hunting tactics. It's no rocket science really, but as many ppl are doing it wrong it creates this unique situation where everyone is equal but some are more equal than others. Mind you, i'm not talking about exploits, and not about absolute top level gear and skills either.
Again, it seems these aspects of EU are fading away with every year, more and more stupidity seems to get compensated, but it's still too early to say it's totally gone.

 

[Eldaii]

thanks for answers, especially fifth coz you have really understood what i really want to talk about.

The real point of all this is GAMEPLAY. Is it boring? personnally i think yes, im ok with the management part, the rce part, but not with the gameplay one, im more and more bored with it.

that is very simple, i take an exemple :

-in hunting, why put a delay for shots (loading time) ? It's unrealistic, and makes the all thing looking soooo stupid.
would not an automatic shooting like common fps (you stay clicking and the gun continue firing like a real rifle with almost no delay between shots) and pure damage is lowered to keep same dps on weapons. This + aiming because it doesnt cost ammo if you miss the target.

But I understand people are looking for a casino with rce part.

I'm just kidding then when mindark talk about retention time for a player but still has not understood yet that this is the GAMEPLAY that makes a game good.

1- player play for RCE. because gameplay is crap there is only money interesting. Loot is bad. They whine and quit, disgusted.

2- player play a fun game with RCE. Loot is bad. They are disgusted but at least they had fun and entertainment by "playing" it (not "looting" it)

I wish it was the 2nd but unfortunately I have no fun while playing, only when i loot and try to make my pedcard survive to this. and when i have no ped anymore, its always frustrating a bit. but im ok because im here for 7years now and the nostalgia will always win. A new player is gonna quit quickly.

the day a game like borderlands get full RCE with clever adaptation, this is the day I uninstall entropia forever.

 

[WhiningSkeptic]

The RCE is the gameplay here. It is a challenge. That is what makes the game fun. Other games are just as repetative.

Edit:

For instance, that MMO that is the biggest, it has the most stupid and repetative, dumbed down gameplay ever. Gameplay needs to be dumb and repetative for the masses to be able to go along.

 

[Eldaii]

The RCE is the gameplay here. It is a challenge. That is what makes the game fun. Other games are just as repetative.

Edit:

For instance, that MMO that is the biggest, it has the most stupid and repetative, dumbed down gameplay ever. Gameplay needs to be dumb and repetative for the masses to be able to go along.

I never played it. And im ok that the RCE (managelent of pedcard + trade) is the "game here" enven if you have the same game in the stockmarket...

but is it enough? cannot gameplay be better? more dynamic? if the game you are talking about was boring as EU is, i dont think so many people would play it lol.

"dynamic loot, boring gameplay" would be a good slogo for EU.

 

[WhiningSkeptic]

I never played it. And im ok that the RCE (managelent of pedcard + trade) is the "game here" enven if you have the same game in the stockmarket...

but is it enough? cannot gameplay be better? more dynamic? if the game you are talking about was boring as EU is, i dont think so many people would play it lol.

"dynamic loot, boring gameplay" would be a good slogo for EU.

Try it.

Go here. Go there. Kill this. Kill that. Run back and forth. Cap the game in a week.

Of course it is popular; any idiot can walk out there, play for a few weeks and reach endgame and feel like they are good at something.

That's why EU doesn't match well with normal gamers, because in here you actually have to use your brain. You can't farm a mistake away in an evening.

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

This thread, we meet again.

 

[Eldaii]

Try it.

Go here. Go there. Kill this. Kill that. Run back and forth. Cap the game in a week.

so you did not understand my point.

i wrote in the first topic :

Grinding and repeated actions can be fun if the action itself is fun.

no pb with a kill that, loot that, go there, if the the "kill that" is a real fight for example.

I'm not saying the core of entropia is boring. As I said, I play it for this particularity, as any other player, and it's great.

But the real gameplay hidden behind the main mechanics is bad. You can't say me you get some fun autoclicking on a mob waiting for it to be down? Or run, click, run, click etc.

and my question is : is there another way it could be? and is it still possible now?

Ive written a very long first post so im a bit sad my main ideas can't be understand, hope they are clear now.

 

[Mega]

But the real gameplay hidden behind the main mechanics is bad. You can't say me you get some fun autoclicking on a mob waiting for it to be down? Or run, click, run, click etc.

and my question is : is there another way it could be? and is it still possible now?

Maybe do some mining for a change?

 

[WhiningSkeptic]

so you did not understand my point.

i wrote in the first topic :

Grinding and repeated actions can be fun if the action itself is fun.

no pb with a kill that, loot that, go there, if the the "kill that" is a real fight for example.

I'm not saying the core of entropia is boring. As I said, I play it for this particularity, as any other player, and it's great.

But the real gameplay hidden behind the main mechanics is bad. You can't say me you get some fun autoclicking on a mob waiting for it to be down? Or run, click, run, click etc.

and my question is : is there another way it could be? and is it still possible now?

Uhm...

People played the final fantasy and pokemon series since forever, both being turn based, both being massive successes.

So yeah, seems like autoclicking, repetitive no-brain fights is highly appreciated among players.

Edit: I don't see any other way to handle the actual fighting in a RCE.

 

[Eldaii]

Maybe do some mining for a change?

I've been mining for the most part^^

damn it, i give up.

you all seem really happy with the gameplay, i am really really surprised but its ok.

I thought people would agree and give some gameplay ideas but that's a damn fail.

I secretly hope one day the game has no choice to give up on RCE (even if i don't want EU to disappear haha) and then you realize how its so boring ocmpared to many other true games. (and to be clear im not talking about mmo at all, i hate common mmos gameplay)

 

[Mega]

I've been mining for the most part^^

damn it, i give up.

you all seem really happy with the gameplay, i am really really surprised but its ok.

I thought people would agree and give some gameplay ideas but that's a damn fail.

I secretly hope one day the game has no choice to give up on RCE (even if i don't want EU to disappear haha) and then you realize how its so boring ocmpared to many other true games. (and to be clear im not talking about mmo at all, i hate common mmos gameplay)

I'm sorry but I dont get it.

It's a bit like complaining about a racing game being "all about driving fast going round and round"

MMO's are all pretty much like this. Most people who get a bit jaded or bored, take a week or three off to go play [Insert major console blockbuster game here] then come back refreshed.

Entropia is pretty varied in what you can do and has evolved over the years, which you must have noticed, when I started no missions, no vehicles, only one planet, no space travel and so on.

Sandbox games do rely on finding your own amusement and goals to some extent.

 

[Eldaii]

you don't get it, yes i really understand you did not.

last question, a very simple one :

so you think the gameplay is dynamic, and there is NO WAY it could be more dynamic, it is just PERFECT as it is?

if the answer is yes, then ok the topic can be deleted. I feel alone on this, woaw that hurts

 

[sawachika]

I'm sorry but I dont get it.

It's a bit like complaining about a racing game being "all about driving fast going round and round"

MMO's are all pretty much like this. Most people who get a bit jaded or bored, take a week or three off to go play [Insert major console blockbuster game here] then come back refreshed.

Entropia is pretty varied in what you can do and has evolved over the years, which you must have noticed, when I started no missions, no vehicles, only one planet, no space travel and so on.

Sandbox games do rely on finding your own amusement and goals to some extent.

Nah...I think what bugged Eldaii is rather about the gameplay of hunting being merely a point and click...and the "disconnectedness" (feeling) of it.

I remembered playing this game that I was doing for my blog back in Nov. 2014.

While playing it, I couldn't help thinking that it might have been good if I could play EU in this way. Running around gunning down monsters without having to worry too much about the costs.

And frankly, it felt good being able to fire a gun at full auto.

 

[Fifth]

There was a game quite similar to PE in many ways where there was no mining claim markers. Instead, miners had to locate the claim on the landscape using their scanner. Scanner only gave the absolute distance from the claim so u had to figure out by those readings which direction to move and how far. Once u were inside just a few meters you finally were able to install the actual marker and extract it.
Now this sounds maybe like nothing too complex and not very entertaining but believe me, if u had to do this on the actual terrain you would be surprised how interesting this could be. Over time you developed a certain technic to do it quickly, and this was actually the closest thing i've ever seen in any game that can be called intuitive approach.

I'm telling this to show that it is always possible to create interesting and engaging game content - even without the need to rely on the RL reflexes, coordination or above average intellect.

This is where i would go with EU if i was the decisionmaker. But where the managers/developers of EU want to go? It seems they do have plans, the game seems to be changing but it also seems they're smart enough (and cautious enough) to take it nice and slow. So it's hard for us to tell where exactly are we going or how will EU look after 5 years or 10 years. Assuming it survives that long, that is. Which in turn, depends on the quality of the decisions made behind the scenes.
Hope they know what they're doing, would be a pity if a concept that has so much potential would die off

 

[Eldaii]

yeah sawachika you got it, and it can be applied to all activities.

i think my problem and why people here do not understand what i mean is because of my different perception of the game.

since 2 years im not playing the common way, i couldnt stand the gameplay anymore, so im just loggin to try to break the loot mechanism with methods/stats etc (without breaking the rules ofc) and this is where i got my fun because its certainly the biggest challenge EU can offer.

No way i could imagine grinding like a robot in "point & click" like you perfectly said to realize ive lost peds and have to sell stuff at this mu to break even and then goin back to robot grinding with no challenge.

It would be totally different if the gameplay was different. But i can also understand most people in EU are true grinders and don't see the point of this topic because they like the robot way of play.

 

[Mega]

you don't get it, yes i really understand you did not.

last question, a very simple one :

so you think the gameplay is dynamic, and there is NO WAY it could be more dynamic, it is just PERFECT as it is?

if the answer is yes, then ok the topic can be deleted. I feel alone on this, woaw that hurts

Very few things are perfect, I want a built in screenshot function in Entropia, I dont want to rely on Fraps or other 3rd party add on.

Could the game be more dynamic, certainly, and there would be complaints if it was made more so. Same as people asked for Day / Night then when it was brought in, there were complaints about it. Some people have wanted weather added (rain / snow) to make things more dynamic

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?220605-Can-I-See-Some-Rain-!-!

So they did add it:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?174377-Snow!

Shortly after there was at least one player threatening to quit on the forum about it. As quitting threads arent allowed, the thread could have been deleted. To my memory, falling snow has never subsequently been put back in-game at Xmas time.



You dont need to close this topic just because one poster (me) has a different opinion to you btw.

 

[Wolfram]

I mostly agree with your arguments eldaii, lately I havent been enjoying the game as much anymore and as such have been on a few month break. Then again, reading this thread made me think. If you look at it objectively gameplay is not bad in current form. Even though it feels like they just kept adding features that are meant to fuck you over , e.g. auction fees "decrease", equip decay and the faster regen kind of fucked up atrox and such for low level players that would run around get in a fight with a regen mob and have no way of killing it even it they went back which was possible and kind of cool back in the day.
But if uniquely judging the gameplay it think they are doing fine imagine if entropia did not have a rce and some way to get peds to play it could be pretty awesome, so much territory to explore, so much awesome stuff to loot, the incredibly slow leveling, i could spend months of gameplay time easily but the rce kind of makes of that impossible in the current form (unless you are loaded and dont mind losing some in my opinion). Maybe one day when entropia goes broke we'll have a server without rce and we'll finaly be able to explore without limits

 

[jjmatrix]

You seem to be under the impression that this game should be developed for everyone: it isn't.
1. Yes, there is no real "skill" component when it comes to physical actions but I think that you need to "flex" your most important muscle quite a bit in order to succeed (the definition of succeeding varies of course).
2. The dynamic part is all well... but it's not where you can easily see it. I went to Atlantis once, after the big revamp and that's it. I really don't care how nice it looks. Introduction of shrapnel in loot it's an entirely different matter.
3. Most types of changes you propose won't mean much to me; I'm not saying some changes couldn't be good but the impact will not be very high.
4. When it comes to new additions to the game, most players (me included) would like to see fixes for the most common bugs/problems first and then eye-candy. So in general, EU player base is very suspect of changes, and the first thing that come to mind is: why did they (MA) do it? What's the real reason? How will this affect the economy?
5. Finally, I'm going to repeat what others said: EU has the potential to be what you want it to be. It could be a grinding game, casino, a glorified FB, graphical chess, pissing contest (see pirates/space), measuring sticks contest and much more. For me personally it is a form of entertainment; I agree to pay for it as much as I want and even though I do find it boring at times, there are always challenges and new things to try. By the way... I've been playing it for almost 10 years now.

Bottom line is that maybe this game isn't for you?

 

[Eldaii]

to jjmatrix :

your arguments are correct even if its not my opinion, i respect that and thats why i made this post.

but why this last sentence? why when someone talk about changes there is always one guy to say that.

I paste what i said a few posts above :

"since 2 years im not playing the common way, i couldnt stand the gameplay anymore, so im just loggin to try to break the loot mechanism with methods/stats etc (without breaking the rules ofc) and this is where i got my fun because its certainly the biggest challenge EU can offer. "

I play it as i play sport bets.
That doesn't mean this game is not for me. I played it for 7 years and i love it, and id like it to be MORE.

I'm asking : is it possible?
im not asking : do you think i should stop?

THIS IS NOT A WHINING THREAD.
I AM NOT GONNA QUIT THE GAME.
I LOVE THE GAME.

It's a thread where i ask players to put their thoughts about EU's gameplay.

 

[StefanT]

I think i understand you. In other games we got real life skills to play which makes them fun, here we dont. For example in counter strike you really need to aim not like here leave it on auto. Over there a head shot would be lice critical hit in EU with one difference, its real skill and aim with mouse not random like here. Actually most games are made so you learn it and develop a skill in playing not skills your avatar has.

In Racing games also you need to learn how fast to approach a turn, how to cut corners and thats what makes you good at it.

to make it short, in other games uber is a person that develops skills to play it, but real life skills, here uber is the person that deposits the most.

 

[WhiningSkeptic]

I think i understand you. In other games we got real life skills to play which makes them fun, here we dont. For example in counter strike you really need to aim not like here leave it on auto. Over there a head shot would be lice critical hit in EU with one difference, its real skill and aim with mouse not random like here. Actually most games are made so you learn it and develop a skill in playing not skills your avatar has.

In Racing games also you need to learn how fast to approach a turn, how to cut corners and thats what makes you good at it.

to make it short, in other games uber is a person that develops skills to play it, but real life skills, here uber is the person that deposits the most.

No.

Here it is about learning how to sustain.

 

[Eldaii]

Yes the "real skill" question isnt really the point here, its more about a personal thing and point of view, and it has certainly about no chance to exist in EU.

the main thing is that without even requiring real skills (dexterity, tactic, etc) the gameplay could be more interesting.

hunting should be a really active profession for example, its not, its the same mechanics as crafting, click and loot.
dynamism can be brought without the use of real skills, just read posts of fifth or sawachika they explained with a few lines better than i did in all my posts.

and that is really not hard to understand and then discuss. about the technical problems devs would have, would there be simple ways to improve it etc.

 

[AxeMurderer]

I think i understand you. In other games we got real life skills to play which makes them fun, here we dont. For example in counter strike you really need to aim not like here leave it on auto. Over there a head shot would be lice critical hit in EU with one difference, its real skill and aim with mouse not random like here. Actually most games are made so you learn it and develop a skill in playing not skills your avatar has.

In Racing games also you need to learn how fast to approach a turn, how to cut corners and thats what makes you good at it.

to make it short, in other games uber is a person that develops skills to play it, but real life skills, here uber is the person that deposits the most.

If your entire life you play only FPS and racing games you can get to that conclusion. If you ever played games like Sim City, Xcom, Ceaser 3, trains, farmvile, zinga poker or any wierd japanes game you will see not everything is about how fast you move the mouse and click.

On the repetiotion stuff. In Diying light you do the same over and over. In Star Craft too. In every game you repeat the same actions. For few months. Then you move to another game and do the same. Here the difference is you do it for years.

 

[StefanT]

Well at least thats how i see the difference ?. Ok carry on with the discussion?

 

[Tuhin]

Not A Game

Its not really a game, its an Universe which is Virtual. Also not a Casino, its what you want it to be. Just like you won't be able to define Real World, you won't be able to define Entropia Universe. While some people see it as a place to earn money others just play it for fun or think it a nice place to spend PEDs. Its Virtual Reality.

 

[San]

Sorry, didn't manage to read the whole discussion. Just one thought, not even a new one: It will be a game (again), when space pirates actually have to take a risk (other than losing a few ped) for getting to shoot at ducks who want nothing other than go about their way. Things are so hopelessly stacked towards unfairness that it's no fun for most people to go there. Space pvp should be like the Hub on Cyrene. As you enter, all is/are equal.

 

[Svarog]

Fun is a very subjective matter. Some windsurf and basejump while others find thrill in golf. One can quickly become bored watching races while other gazes clouds for hours. Entropia is an endless spiral staircase to the skies, the process of climbing millions of steps may appear repeatative, but the view gets better and better