Developer Notes #11 - Loot 2.0

Yeah, would be time for a sit strike in PA. Oh, wait...

Right... :laugh:

strike.JPG
:lolup: perhaps this is why they never re-added the sitting position? :ahh:
wait, I think it was because people could move whilst sitting, i forgot what we called it... :scratch2:
 
[h=2]
Loot Changes
  • Ammunition will be removed from hunting loot. This change has been requested by many participants over the years and will assist participants in more accurately tracking their results.
The simplest way to make tracking results easier is just to fucking log loot received like when in a team.
Simply adding the ped value per kill to that log, identical in nature to the most loot event points received log lines, would greatly increase that simplicity.
But such an obvious and simple solution is never going to get implemented is it... :dunce:
 
But such an obvious and simple solution is never going to get implemented is it... :dunce:


Never is a long time. So is 7 years for a screenshot function. Just wait. ;)


I have high hopes for sitting down in 2019 after seeing chat 'babble' re-introduced.
 
The simplest way to make tracking results easier is just to fucking log loot received like when in a team.
Simply adding the ped value per kill to that log, identical in nature to the most loot event points received log lines, would greatly increase that simplicity.
But such an obvious and simple solution is never going to get implemented is it... :dunce:

There is probably a reason for not doing this, people figuring out things they're not supposed to. I'm actually wondering why they ever put it in team chat. Now go figure why not more exploits gleaned from that are talked about publicly. Most people can't muster the determination needed, unless...
 
My only thought on this, is that it can't possibly be any worse than it already is, so bring it on ?
 
Still, whatever this brings, I can say one thing: The timing is perfect! ELM Time!

:smoke:
 
My first post on this thread was to welcome changes and express prevailing opinion (good, supportive) on me while reading what topics of our life will be taken into account balancing our price paid for abilities offered towards our wishes/dreams. Below is more detailed deeper analysis.

Loot Changes
  • Loot calculations will be optimized and improved to better factor in the various costs associated with hunting activity, including: healing, ammo consumption, buffs, tool and armor deterioration, attachments, and more.


  • Healing: there are at least two different types of healing you use on your hunt – when you heal yourself and when you take service of professional healer. Logics tell me when you heal yourself you are at wounded state longer time and, thus, same logics tell me you should not get better loot after shutting wounded (lower accuracy, speed…). I’m sure many will agree on it isn’t also welcome thing to interupt with healing while looking into quite different side – animals are having longer pain period until down – logics tell me sadism shouldn’t be supported :D What I mean here bad shape to have on hunter should not have support (I do not touch cases of heroism when people even die to save others, not just get wounded – these cases are special). What happens when you take professional healer – 1) less time for wounded condition, 2) lesser time until mob down [and for sure lower period for mob self healing – you need to do lesser damage until mob down] due to use 100% of your shutter time – no interupts for healing and 3) you respect someone to have space for their service, i.e. you advertise EU as good media to communicate with others (your and fapper this time). With loot 2.0 I could guess there will be higher respect and space for professional fappers as well as for various other services bringing us to see others, to communicate. Rebalancing of support from system on team:solo should bring media to more attractive, careful, peaceful, tolerant. Media will become habitated/populated not just with Mr. TT, Mr. Repair, Mr.Auctioneer, Mr.NPC, but will have space for other forms of Mr and Mrs (Mr and Mrs who got Avatars in real life media, not just in this reality, home reality many call, Virtual one; we differ from Mr. Repair – we wish to build both lifes, not just virtual one).

    Ammo Consumption: it directly means your activity at media and I could see just positive input after higher ammo consumption: 1) by being active you will global, HOF (the rate will be higher with ammo consumption growing) – i.e. you advertise EU media is interactive, you are showing something happens here in time, the flow of info at main chat impacts our activities, as well as you place beacons on time scale (before-after) helping people pick their activities, confident info (globals, HOFs, frequencies) will offer ideas for other habitants (where to go or where not to go), 2) by being active you attract attention and that ignites direct or indirect communication (direct: “gz!!!!”, “Could I join you [your team] on your hunt?”, “How it’s going today? What’s weather at Argos now? Raining? Argos are nervous that time, moving unpredictably spontaneous – hard to hit”; indirect: let others learn what gear you wear by just watching you with no/low bother, let follow your legend, show them respect, offer smiley after remembering your own kid age, youth in this reality), 3) by being active you show your optimism, show you have goals, directions, you build plans, you plan future. Thus, ammo consumption, whatever efficiency is, should get support.

    Buffs: :D not sure I know what it is. Noob :D Pets, rings, cloaks? I’m not sure if there should be need to support that :( These add just pluses to solo hunt, individual power, grow independence what on longer run lowers communication. Independence is luxury level – if you achieved that you already have your reward. Though good/peaceful part - higher independence asks less care, attention at some point of view. But also indirectly it could mean higher ignore to outer world after long impact period. It’s good to have such alternatives, abilities (buffs) but I’m against to over support it. It’s a fair island, solo mode, if people after fail/fear with trusts in people pick solo mode as they reach less stressful gaming style. I could see from my research of EU community, higher solo mode could be interpreted as peace offered on major cases, not as ignore. Peace is good. Having 90 pages on your friend list you will be forced to “play solo” (=share “undetectable” time to every friend on your list) – sometimes is hard to know truth about levels and types of communication. Resume: no additional support for using buffs. I’m sure using it entropians will win having higher ammo consumption or after their hire professional fappers or will advertise their activities through streaming videos – they will get support for different topics on their activities through Loot 2.0 system. Pets, rings will add them indirectly abilities to offer supported services and activities.
    Tools and Armor deterioration: at least 2 topics to mention. 1) while making decision to support your activity additionally or not it should matter to check what type of gear you use – unlimited or limited condition. I would have supported those who communicate constantly with other players through taking services they provide, i.e. I would have supported additionally those using (L) gear. unL gear owners communicate just with Mr.Repair on that stage of activity, what not adds any additional to make space for abilities for other players to provide services – no healthy input into player base growth. Really, unL is lowering abilities to have good flow of goods – your loots are used on providing that services (items crafted). On major unL gear users just supply but are low on demand. Flow direction is disbalanced. High supply with low demand – that mean kill of market. That’s what happening now. Bad balancing and there is high need of additional support to those who do efforts to balance or play healthy balanced (supply-demand). No direct support for using unL should appear. I could see their (users of unL) win indirectly though – less time spent on searching for fair service men, less time spent on communication/bargaining/learning markets(= learning how to communicate) will mean more time invested on different activities and probably on supported types (etc.: more time on hunting/mining = higher ammo/probes consumption). I know at the moment is very bad situation – even if you will start trying to support to market (will balance supply-demand to more healthy levels on your own), you will face to lack of supply services on gear you would have used or lack of fair services (after greed, no care or bad costs after system AI). For rising up good net of services there is need to have space, demand. Slight off topic: loots should not bring mess: 1) it’s not fair to have loots what not going to be used in nearby future – freezing PEDs of players is bad style to lock them on media as well as 2) it’s not polite to have “abilities” (etc. blueprints) what are like traps on plan builder for us – ingredients never appear on loots [etc.: I have invested a good bit to reach level 85 on weapon/metal crafting just to unlock service to craft H1071 OTK (invested=offered help; seen no one going to take risk so I moved) but I never got offered even a click on that print after lack of components and, it seems lack of respect (v.1: I look onto “rewarding” recipe on print for investments; v.2: “fool, read the recipe, is it promising!”, Why to release such on loots?); peace about my personal “loss”, there were many investments to test for trusts, I was patient and I hope I acted with care, I knew I’m testing if I have enough trust on me for if I will go fair, healthy service on media after abilities trusted. Trust from others in us could not be forced. Even opposite happens with trusts if someone forces us to trust them]. Anyways, I highly recommend not to put “traps” into loots – no respect offered to us brings no respect looted on your side – it’s lose-lose, at least on long run. That’s disadvertise, player base won’t grow. Loot 2.0. I could see TWO types of loots and I hope both loots will get improved (adjusted?) – 1) loot from system players have (hunting, mining, crafting – return % on TT) and 2) loot, what players and MA “loot” from players (return after markups). One very basic principle we need to have in mind – if we want media to be attractive – people should be able to be active. Next thing to know is it brings to active people supply and demand. I won’t descend into analysis of fails with current economy model – it’s too subtle thing and not everything is good to bring to public, especially analysis of fails – some part of community tend to start hunt of witches (that’s waste) - here I just wish to hail incoming changes in advance. So we came now to we have supply and demand and there is high need to balance it well to lower frustrations. Hardest ever part to balance interests, most complicated. Sufficiently high part of the role was set to all manufacturers in game – they were asked to play as intermediators - pay market value on loots from hunters and miners and offer attractive products what will have demand and will support activity by both acts (buy-sell). Hunters and miners on major have just one part of it – task to sell loots – their input is at Mr.TT or Mr. Repair – ammo and probes, repairs. Furthermore, crafter was asked to be responsible to advertise their products, offer ways how their products should be used, win respect and trust about fairness of supply and at times there was force them to achieve insanely high – cover high costs while balancing on the edge to loose respect and honor, force to breach principles of balanced exchange. Resuming, I would expect Loot 2.0 system to cover some part of cost – hunters who use markup (L) gear to have some part of markup returned. What part would be fair to compensate? Mindark knows well what they put into our loots at what costs and frequencies, knows well equations to calculate cost of manufactured items – I’m sure it would have been fair to support balanced markup and compensate just a part of that cost to HUNTERS who burn these (L). They are habitants of this media who act healthy to balance supply-demand. (I wished Loot 2.0 applied to crafters – to support those who are following their costs; there are extraordinary cases when people sell below costs or try to maximize profits by forcing lower markup on initial materials and higher on products; constantly, not during temporary rare solutions).

    … night is over – I’ve spent it on trying to compile my this next response/opinion – and now I need to switch to real acitivities :). Not sure if I will come again with my thoughts on this thread but you could see the direction I’m sure MA moves. (Same long post would have appeared regarding “98%”, “economy”, “skills”…). Along with general support for changes, above I’ve posted some of my warnings though not to implement some aspects at Loot 2.0 or bring it lil bit different way (higher support of L versus unL).

    We join community to be part of it, to offer our unique to serve to others. Service should be major source for our gain. As well as there is high need to offer healthy services, don't sell drugs ("drugs") - these waste abilities. Builder will bring us to survive and prosper longer.

    Sincerely,
    Auk
 
Well i think there won't be much problems in Teams and the new loot system could be very simple.

I can imagine its just like this: Lets say the loot value a mob normally drops is 1 PED. You got an eco rating of 70, so you get 0.7 PEd loot. If your Eco rating is 100, you get 1 PED and so on.
Same with team hunting. Lets say max mob loot is 10 PED. You do 70% of the damage so your loot would be 7 PED. Now comes the eco rating, lets say you have 100 eco rating, then you get 7 PED. If you got only 50 eco, then you get 3.5. PED. rest goes to overall loot pool.

Wouldnt be difficult to implement something like that.
 
this + also balance the tier reaching speed. modfap t5 has not moved a 0.1 in daily use over a year.
Since we're decreasing defense costs can we decrease tiering costs as well? The cost to tier higher end armor has become quite absurd considering the current market values. To take some armor to tier 3 costs as much or more than the part!
 
agree with this 100%
MOre bloody blueprints....you have GOT to be kidding me.
We already have 90%+ blueprints no longer in use...(nothing to do with EP, before people start complaining).....pllease for the LOVE OF GOD, don't introduce anymore.
 
I didn't read all the posts. If someone had that idea before me i apologies in advance.

"The new economy rating" could be like another tier. You will use your tool often, then your economy rating rise a little bit until 100. If you take a brake, let's says 1 day, the eco rating dropes a little. If you sell your weapon, then the eco rating resets to 0. For L items this eco rating could be rising faster so, at 25-50% of weapon TT you'll get 100 eco rating.

Just an idea, don't know.
 
I didn't read all the posts. If someone had that idea before me i apologies in advance.

"The new economy rating" could be like another tier. You will use your tool often, then your economy rating rise a little bit until 100. If you take a brake, let's says 1 day, the eco rating dropes a little. If you sell your weapon, then the eco rating resets to 0. For L items this eco rating could be rising faster so, at 25-50% of weapon TT you'll get 100 eco rating.

Just an idea, don't know.

i think the eco rating will be set in stone, there could be factors that affect it like scopes, sights, skills or maybe even new enhancers
 
My first post on this thread was to welcome changes and express prevailing opinion (good, supportive) on me while reading what topics of our life will be taken into account balancing our price paid for abilities offered towards our wishes/dreams. Below is more detailed deeper analysis.



Healing: there are at least two different types of healing you use on your hunt – when you heal yourself and when you take service of professional healer. Logics tell me when you heal yourself you are at wounded state longer time and, thus, same logics tell me you should not get better loot after shutting wounded (lower accuracy, speed…). I’m sure many will agree on it isn’t also welcome thing to interupt with healing while looking into quite different side – animals are having longer pain period until down – logics tell me sadism shouldn’t be supported :D What I mean here bad shape to have on hunter should not have support (I do not touch cases of heroism when people even die to save others, not just get wounded – these cases are special). What happens when you take professional healer – 1) less time for wounded condition, 2) lesser time until mob down [and for sure lower period for mob self healing – you need to do lesser damage until mob down] due to use 100% of your shutter time – no interupts for healing and 3) you respect someone to have space for their service, i.e. you advertise EU as good media to communicate with others (your and fapper this time). With loot 2.0 I could guess there will be higher respect and space for professional fappers as well as for various other services bringing us to see others, to communicate. Rebalancing of support from system on team:solo should bring media to more attractive, careful, peaceful, tolerant. Media will become habitated/populated not just with Mr. TT, Mr. Repair, Mr.Auctioneer, Mr.NPC, but will have space for other forms of Mr and Mrs (Mr and Mrs who got Avatars in real life media, not just in this reality, home reality many call, Virtual one; we differ from Mr. Repair – we wish to build both lifes, not just virtual one).

Ammo Consumption: it directly means your activity at media and I could see just positive input after higher ammo consumption: 1) by being active you will global, HOF (the rate will be higher with ammo consumption growing) – i.e. you advertise EU media is interactive, you are showing something happens here in time, the flow of info at main chat impacts our activities, as well as you place beacons on time scale (before-after) helping people pick their activities, confident info (globals, HOFs, frequencies) will offer ideas for other habitants (where to go or where not to go), 2) by being active you attract attention and that ignites direct or indirect communication (direct: “gz!!!!”, “Could I join you [your team] on your hunt?”, “How it’s going today? What’s weather at Argos now? Raining? Argos are nervous that time, moving unpredictably spontaneous – hard to hit”; indirect: let others learn what gear you wear by just watching you with no/low bother, let follow your legend, show them respect, offer smiley after remembering your own kid age, youth in this reality), 3) by being active you show your optimism, show you have goals, directions, you build plans, you plan future. Thus, ammo consumption, whatever efficiency is, should get support.

Buffs: :D not sure I know what it is. Noob :D Pets, rings, cloaks? I’m not sure if there should be need to support that :( These add just pluses to solo hunt, individual power, grow independence what on longer run lowers communication. Independence is luxury level – if you achieved that you already have your reward. Though good/peaceful part - higher independence asks less care, attention at some point of view. But also indirectly it could mean higher ignore to outer world after long impact period. It’s good to have such alternatives, abilities (buffs) but I’m against to over support it. It’s a fair island, solo mode, if people after fail/fear with trusts in people pick solo mode as they reach less stressful gaming style. I could see from my research of EU community, higher solo mode could be interpreted as peace offered on major cases, not as ignore. Peace is good. Having 90 pages on your friend list you will be forced to “play solo” (=share “undetectable” time to every friend on your list) – sometimes is hard to know truth about levels and types of communication. Resume: no additional support for using buffs. I’m sure using it entropians will win having higher ammo consumption or after their hire professional fappers or will advertise their activities through streaming videos – they will get support for different topics on their activities through Loot 2.0 system. Pets, rings will add them indirectly abilities to offer supported services and activities.
Tools and Armor deterioration: at least 2 topics to mention. 1) while making decision to support your activity additionally or not it should matter to check what type of gear you use – unlimited or limited condition. I would have supported those who communicate constantly with other players through taking services they provide, i.e. I would have supported additionally those using (L) gear. unL gear owners communicate just with Mr.Repair on that stage of activity, what not adds any additional to make space for abilities for other players to provide services – no healthy input into player base growth. Really, unL is lowering abilities to have good flow of goods – your loots are used on providing that services (items crafted). On major unL gear users just supply but are low on demand. Flow direction is disbalanced. High supply with low demand – that mean kill of market. That’s what happening now. Bad balancing and there is high need of additional support to those who do efforts to balance or play healthy balanced (supply-demand). No direct support for using unL should appear. I could see their (users of unL) win indirectly though – less time spent on searching for fair service men, less time spent on communication/bargaining/learning markets(= learning how to communicate) will mean more time invested on different activities and probably on supported types (etc.: more time on hunting/mining = higher ammo/probes consumption). I know at the moment is very bad situation – even if you will start trying to support to market (will balance supply-demand to more healthy levels on your own), you will face to lack of supply services on gear you would have used or lack of fair services (after greed, no care or bad costs after system AI). For rising up good net of services there is need to have space, demand. Slight off topic: loots should not bring mess: 1) it’s not fair to have loots what not going to be used in nearby future – freezing PEDs of players is bad style to lock them on media as well as 2) it’s not polite to have “abilities” (etc. blueprints) what are like traps on plan builder for us – ingredients never appear on loots [etc.: I have invested a good bit to reach level 85 on weapon/metal crafting just to unlock service to craft H1071 OTK (invested=offered help; seen no one going to take risk so I moved) but I never got offered even a click on that print after lack of components and, it seems lack of respect (v.1: I look onto “rewarding” recipe on print for investments; v.2: “fool, read the recipe, is it promising!”, Why to release such on loots?); peace about my personal “loss”, there were many investments to test for trusts, I was patient and I hope I acted with care, I knew I’m testing if I have enough trust on me for if I will go fair, healthy service on media after abilities trusted. Trust from others in us could not be forced. Even opposite happens with trusts if someone forces us to trust them]. Anyways, I highly recommend not to put “traps” into loots – no respect offered to us brings no respect looted on your side – it’s lose-lose, at least on long run. That’s disadvertise, player base won’t grow. Loot 2.0. I could see TWO types of loots and I hope both loots will get improved (adjusted?) – 1) loot from system players have (hunting, mining, crafting – return % on TT) and 2) loot, what players and MA “loot” from players (return after markups). One very basic principle we need to have in mind – if we want media to be attractive – people should be able to be active. Next thing to know is it brings to active people supply and demand. I won’t descend into analysis of fails with current economy model – it’s too subtle thing and not everything is good to bring to public, especially analysis of fails – some part of community tend to start hunt of witches (that’s waste) - here I just wish to hail incoming changes in advance. So we came now to we have supply and demand and there is high need to balance it well to lower frustrations. Hardest ever part to balance interests, most complicated. Sufficiently high part of the role was set to all manufacturers in game – they were asked to play as intermediators - pay market value on loots from hunters and miners and offer attractive products what will have demand and will support activity by both acts (buy-sell). Hunters and miners on major have just one part of it – task to sell loots – their input is at Mr.TT or Mr. Repair – ammo and probes, repairs. Furthermore, crafter was asked to be responsible to advertise their products, offer ways how their products should be used, win respect and trust about fairness of supply and at times there was force them to achieve insanely high – cover high costs while balancing on the edge to loose respect and honor, force to breach principles of balanced exchange. Resuming, I would expect Loot 2.0 system to cover some part of cost – hunters who use markup (L) gear to have some part of markup returned. What part would be fair to compensate? Mindark knows well what they put into our loots at what costs and frequencies, knows well equations to calculate cost of manufactured items – I’m sure it would have been fair to support balanced markup and compensate just a part of that cost to HUNTERS who burn these (L). They are habitants of this media who act healthy to balance supply-demand. (I wished Loot 2.0 applied to crafters – to support those who are following their costs; there are extraordinary cases when people sell below costs or try to maximize profits by forcing lower markup on initial materials and higher on products; constantly, not during temporary rare solutions).

… night is over – I’ve spent it on trying to compile my this next response/opinion – and now I need to switch to real acitivities :). Not sure if I will come again with my thoughts on this thread but you could see the direction I’m sure MA moves. (Same long post would have appeared regarding “98%”, “economy”, “skills”…). Along with general support for changes, above I’ve posted some of my warnings though not to implement some aspects at Loot 2.0 or bring it lil bit different way (higher support of L versus unL).

We join community to be part of it, to offer our unique to serve to others. Service should be major source for our gain. As well as there is high need to offer healthy services, don't sell drugs ("drugs") - these waste abilities. Builder will bring us to survive and prosper longer.

Sincerely,
Auk

I do not agree with you. I believe that all expenses incurred by the Hunters should be rewarded. The best proof of this is crafting. Mindark gives to the Crafters 0 expenses using nanocubes. Why should Hunters have to spend for every thing with no sales profit in his loot? Why should hunting continue supporting crafters, favoring only (L) tools? I disagree.

I prefer Mindark think a little more to enhance hunting this time. Welcome Loot 2.0
 
Mindark gives to the Crafters 0 expenses using nanocubes.
No MU in, no MU out. Not that I much like explo clicking but one should see the balance in this equation, no?
It's not like explo clicking = crafting, I would rather say the opposite--explo clicking is not crafting at all.

As I see it there's currently 4 main professions in Entropia: Hunting, Mining, Crafting & EXPLO-clicking.

Auktuma most definitely wasn't talking about EXPLO BP's... so why are you? To prove you have missed his point entirely?
 
I do not agree with you. I believe that all expenses incurred by the Hunters should be rewarded. The best proof of this is crafting. Mindark gives to the Crafters 0 expenses using nanocubes. Why should Hunters have to spend for every thing with no sales profit in his loot? Why should hunting continue supporting crafters, favoring only (L) tools? I disagree.

I prefer Mindark think a little more to enhance hunting this time. Welcome Loot 2.0


Wow, miss understand much?


Rgds

Ace
 
Auktuma - that is more words in a single setting than I've heard you speak in game in 10 years! You must have put much thinking into that post.

Me, I think no matter how MA CF's this "update", some will lose (most, in fact), some will hit HOFs and lots of Globals, most will complain, ubers will still win all the contests, and the rest of us idiots will still keep pulling the handle on this one-armed-bandit in spite of it all.

Remember: the job of a corporation is to make money for it's share holders. MA ain't going to do anything that would change the fact that THEY are the "house" and the "house" always wins.
 
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No MU in, no MU out. Not that I much like explo clicking but one should see the balance in this equation, no?
It's not like explo clicking = crafting, I would rather say the opposite--explo clicking is not crafting at all.

As I see it there's currently 4 main professions in Entropia: Hunting, Mining, Crafting & EXPLO-clicking.

Auktuma most definitely wasn't talking about EXPLO BP's... so why are you? To prove you have missed his point entirely?

wrong...

clicking EP4 generates more markup than hunting... on average. which is why people do it. you can loot gems via EP crafting. remove that and and prevent auctioning of residue/projectiles and you'll truly have no markup in = no markup out..

Right now you have 0% markup in = 1-3% markup out.

No one gives a shit that the bps are 20 ped/click.. the problem is being able to cycle that much ped per hour on TT cost... and getting markup from it.
 
I am not an active forum poster but seeing your post about the "house" and the "house" always winning i feel i have to reply and clear some misconceptions.
I have often seen this discussion around when i played poker - "the house always wins, therefore you never will" - so not true. A bit different concept you are talking about here, but i feel you misunderstand some things - MAs profit depends not only on the money they take per player but also on the number of players. simply put - if they take too much per player and people will be loosing too much they will loose players. If they loose players they have to take even more per player to sustain their profits and this in turn results in more players lost. Sooner or later the system will die. If they take too little per player the system will grow but they will not be able to sustain it and the system will fail yet again.
What MA has to do is find the golden middle (ten ring for the archers :) ) where they would not be taking too much - to keep the players happy and motivated, but they would be taking enough to sustain the system and keep a healthy profit. My hope is that this change is an attempt to do just that. I might be naive but i choose to be naive this time.
Auktuma - that is more words in a single setting than I've heard you speak in game in 10 years! You must have put much thinking into that post.

Me, I think no matter how MA CF's this "update", some will lose (most, in fact), some will hit HOFs and lots of Globals, most will complain, ubers will still win all the contests, and the rest of us idiots will still keep pulling the handle on this one-armed-bandit in spite of it all.

Remember: the job of a corporation is to make money for it's share holders. MA ain't going to do anything that would change the fact that THEY are the "house" and the "house" always wins.
 
My first post on this thread was to welcome changes and express prevailing opinion (good, supportive) on me while reading what topics of our life will be taken into account balancing our price paid for abilities offered towards our wishes/dreams. Below is more detailed deeper analysis.



Healing: there are at least two different types of healing you use on your hunt – when you heal yourself and when you take service of professional healer. Logics tell me when you heal yourself you are at wounded state longer time and, thus, same logics tell me you should not get better loot after shutting wounded (lower accuracy, speed…). I’m sure many will agree on it isn’t also welcome thing to interupt with healing while looking into quite different side – animals are having longer pain period until down – logics tell me sadism shouldn’t be supported :D What I mean here bad shape to have on hunter should not have support (I do not touch cases of heroism when people even die to save others, not just get wounded – these cases are special). What happens when you take professional healer – 1) less time for wounded condition, 2) lesser time until mob down [and for sure lower period for mob self healing – you need to do lesser damage until mob down] due to use 100% of your shutter time – no interupts for healing and 3) you respect someone to have space for their service, i.e. you advertise EU as good media to communicate with others (your and fapper this time). With loot 2.0 I could guess there will be higher respect and space for professional fappers as well as for various other services bringing us to see others, to communicate. Rebalancing of support from system on team:solo should bring media to more attractive, careful, peaceful, tolerant. Media will become habitated/populated not just with Mr. TT, Mr. Repair, Mr.Auctioneer, Mr.NPC, but will have space for other forms of Mr and Mrs (Mr and Mrs who got Avatars in real life media, not just in this reality, home reality many call, Virtual one; we differ from Mr. Repair – we wish to build both lifes, not just virtual one).

Ammo Consumption: it directly means your activity at media and I could see just positive input after higher ammo consumption: 1) by being active you will global, HOF (the rate will be higher with ammo consumption growing) – i.e. you advertise EU media is interactive, you are showing something happens here in time, the flow of info at main chat impacts our activities, as well as you place beacons on time scale (before-after) helping people pick their activities, confident info (globals, HOFs, frequencies) will offer ideas for other habitants (where to go or where not to go), 2) by being active you attract attention and that ignites direct or indirect communication (direct: “gz!!!!”, “Could I join you [your team] on your hunt?”, “How it’s going today? What’s weather at Argos now? Raining? Argos are nervous that time, moving unpredictably spontaneous – hard to hit”; indirect: let others learn what gear you wear by just watching you with no/low bother, let follow your legend, show them respect, offer smiley after remembering your own kid age, youth in this reality), 3) by being active you show your optimism, show you have goals, directions, you build plans, you plan future. Thus, ammo consumption, whatever efficiency is, should get support.

Buffs: :D not sure I know what it is. Noob :D Pets, rings, cloaks? I’m not sure if there should be need to support that :( These add just pluses to solo hunt, individual power, grow independence what on longer run lowers communication. Independence is luxury level – if you achieved that you already have your reward. Though good/peaceful part - higher independence asks less care, attention at some point of view. But also indirectly it could mean higher ignore to outer world after long impact period. It’s good to have such alternatives, abilities (buffs) but I’m against to over support it. It’s a fair island, solo mode, if people after fail/fear with trusts in people pick solo mode as they reach less stressful gaming style. I could see from my research of EU community, higher solo mode could be interpreted as peace offered on major cases, not as ignore. Peace is good. Having 90 pages on your friend list you will be forced to “play solo” (=share “undetectable” time to every friend on your list) – sometimes is hard to know truth about levels and types of communication. Resume: no additional support for using buffs. I’m sure using it entropians will win having higher ammo consumption or after their hire professional fappers or will advertise their activities through streaming videos – they will get support for different topics on their activities through Loot 2.0 system. Pets, rings will add them indirectly abilities to offer supported services and activities.
Tools and Armor deterioration: at least 2 topics to mention. 1) while making decision to support your activity additionally or not it should matter to check what type of gear you use – unlimited or limited condition. I would have supported those who communicate constantly with other players through taking services they provide, i.e. I would have supported additionally those using (L) gear. unL gear owners communicate just with Mr.Repair on that stage of activity, what not adds any additional to make space for abilities for other players to provide services – no healthy input into player base growth. Really, unL is lowering abilities to have good flow of goods – your loots are used on providing that services (items crafted). On major unL gear users just supply but are low on demand. Flow direction is disbalanced. High supply with low demand – that mean kill of market. That’s what happening now. Bad balancing and there is high need of additional support to those who do efforts to balance or play healthy balanced (supply-demand). No direct support for using unL should appear. I could see their (users of unL) win indirectly though – less time spent on searching for fair service men, less time spent on communication/bargaining/learning markets(= learning how to communicate) will mean more time invested on different activities and probably on supported types (etc.: more time on hunting/mining = higher ammo/probes consumption). I know at the moment is very bad situation – even if you will start trying to support to market (will balance supply-demand to more healthy levels on your own), you will face to lack of supply services on gear you would have used or lack of fair services (after greed, no care or bad costs after system AI). For rising up good net of services there is need to have space, demand. Slight off topic: loots should not bring mess: 1) it’s not fair to have loots what not going to be used in nearby future – freezing PEDs of players is bad style to lock them on media as well as 2) it’s not polite to have “abilities” (etc. blueprints) what are like traps on plan builder for us – ingredients never appear on loots [etc.: I have invested a good bit to reach level 85 on weapon/metal crafting just to unlock service to craft H1071 OTK (invested=offered help; seen no one going to take risk so I moved) but I never got offered even a click on that print after lack of components and, it seems lack of respect (v.1: I look onto “rewarding” recipe on print for investments; v.2: “fool, read the recipe, is it promising!”, Why to release such on loots?); peace about my personal “loss”, there were many investments to test for trusts, I was patient and I hope I acted with care, I knew I’m testing if I have enough trust on me for if I will go fair, healthy service on media after abilities trusted. Trust from others in us could not be forced. Even opposite happens with trusts if someone forces us to trust them]. Anyways, I highly recommend not to put “traps” into loots – no respect offered to us brings no respect looted on your side – it’s lose-lose, at least on long run. That’s disadvertise, player base won’t grow. Loot 2.0. I could see TWO types of loots and I hope both loots will get improved (adjusted?) – 1) loot from system players have (hunting, mining, crafting – return % on TT) and 2) loot, what players and MA “loot” from players (return after markups). One very basic principle we need to have in mind – if we want media to be attractive – people should be able to be active. Next thing to know is it brings to active people supply and demand. I won’t descend into analysis of fails with current economy model – it’s too subtle thing and not everything is good to bring to public, especially analysis of fails – some part of community tend to start hunt of witches (that’s waste) - here I just wish to hail incoming changes in advance. So we came now to we have supply and demand and there is high need to balance it well to lower frustrations. Hardest ever part to balance interests, most complicated. Sufficiently high part of the role was set to all manufacturers in game – they were asked to play as intermediators - pay market value on loots from hunters and miners and offer attractive products what will have demand and will support activity by both acts (buy-sell). Hunters and miners on major have just one part of it – task to sell loots – their input is at Mr.TT or Mr. Repair – ammo and probes, repairs. Furthermore, crafter was asked to be responsible to advertise their products, offer ways how their products should be used, win respect and trust about fairness of supply and at times there was force them to achieve insanely high – cover high costs while balancing on the edge to loose respect and honor, force to breach principles of balanced exchange. Resuming, I would expect Loot 2.0 system to cover some part of cost – hunters who use markup (L) gear to have some part of markup returned. What part would be fair to compensate? Mindark knows well what they put into our loots at what costs and frequencies, knows well equations to calculate cost of manufactured items – I’m sure it would have been fair to support balanced markup and compensate just a part of that cost to HUNTERS who burn these (L). They are habitants of this media who act healthy to balance supply-demand. (I wished Loot 2.0 applied to crafters – to support those who are following their costs; there are extraordinary cases when people sell below costs or try to maximize profits by forcing lower markup on initial materials and higher on products; constantly, not during temporary rare solutions).

… night is over – I’ve spent it on trying to compile my this next response/opinion – and now I need to switch to real acitivities :). Not sure if I will come again with my thoughts on this thread but you could see the direction I’m sure MA moves. (Same long post would have appeared regarding “98%”, “economy”, “skills”…). Along with general support for changes, above I’ve posted some of my warnings though not to implement some aspects at Loot 2.0 or bring it lil bit different way (higher support of L versus unL).

We join community to be part of it, to offer our unique to serve to others. Service should be major source for our gain. As well as there is high need to offer healthy services, don't sell drugs ("drugs") - these waste abilities. Builder will bring us to survive and prosper longer.

Sincerely,
Auk

Anyone care to translate this into something meaningful or something that makes sense? :scratch2:
 
Me, I think no matter how MA CF's this "update", some will lose (most, in fact), some will hit HOFs and lots of Globals, most will complain, ubers will still win all the contests, and the rest of us idiots will still keep pulling the handle on this one-armed-bandit in spite of it all.

Remember: the job of a corporation is to make money for it's share holders. MA ain't going to do anything that would change the fact that THEY are the "house" and the "house" always wins.

Well of course you have a good point and my way of thinking as well. But the good news for all, is that MA is doing well now with EPs and other direct buy items which in turn lets them give out a bit more with this new system. I always guessed the old system had a house overall overlook at how the game is going, but with this new system I feel it will be monitoring it even more. So as long as MA is making money this new system should be able to give out more (or yes, less). Overall I think it was a good idea that MA worked with this new system and lets hope at the end it makes a lot more people happy since again it looks as if they are removing waves and adding systems which will monitor it better for all -- and yes MA being the #1 item it will be looking out for.
 
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wrong...

clicking EP4 generates more markup than hunting... on average. which is why people do it. you can loot gems via EP crafting. remove that and and prevent auctioning of residue/projectiles and you'll truly have no markup in = no markup out..

Right now you have 0% markup in = 1-3% markup out.

No one gives a shit that the bps are 20 ped/click.. the problem is being able to cycle that much ped per hour on TT cost... and getting markup from it.
Explosives sold @ 101.4% MU last month, minus the AU fee, minus the "no success" clicks--it's not like you can convert 100 ped nanocubes into 100 ped explosives. I don't know what's the real average MU, incl gems but I'm pretty sure for EP4 it won't cover the overall average TT loss per run.
Believing the opposite is as good as believing money grows on trees...

Anyway, that wasn't my point. Auktuma doesn't talk about explosive clicking. Like: not at all.
 
What MA has to do is find the golden middle (ten ring for the archers :) ) where they would not be taking too much - to keep the players happy and motivated, but they would be taking enough to sustain the system and keep a healthy profit. My hope is that this change is an attempt to do just that. I might be naive but i choose to be naive this time.

If they bring back regular decent size hofs eg. 20k peds on atrox you will see a lot of players you thought had died irl return to playing regularly I reckon.
 
If they bring back regular decent size hofs eg. 20k peds on atrox you will see a lot of players you thought had died irl return to playing regularly I reckon.

yup. that change was the biggest turnoff for me. and it especially killed mining for me.
 
If they bring back regular decent size hofs eg. 20k peds on atrox you will see a lot of players you thought had died irl return to playing regularly I reckon.

Someone has to pay for those.. and youll see a lot of players who play now disappear. Not interested in all that volatility.
 
Someone has to pay for those.. and youll see a lot of players who play now disappear. Not interested in all that volatility.

you don't understand.He want free stuff like spoiled kids back in the days of 2006.
Now they blame the game instead of themselves.
 
you don't understand.He want free stuff like spoiled kids back in the days of 2006.
Now they blame the game instead of themselves.

Said a man who has not lived Project entropia filled with lag / bug / disconnection every 10 minutes, ghost monsters etc, only 1 continent with maybe 300 players who paid to have the chance to live the adventure until the end do not eject in full middle . It's easy to come when everyone has posted on which is the most profitable weapon and what hunting to live at high level.:rolleyes:
 
Said a man who has not lived Project entropia filled with lag / bug / disconnection every 10 minutes, ghost monsters etc, only 1 continent with maybe 300 players who paid to have the chance to live the adventure until the end do not eject in full middle . It's easy to come when everyone has posted on which is the most profitable weapon and what hunting to live at high level.:rolleyes:

omg, have you seen the ghost monster as well?
 
omg, have you seen the ghost monster as well?

That was the one where you were out hunting, and all the sudden you notice you're taking damage, but you couldn't see the mob that was damaging you, you couldn't target it, or anything, it would just chew up your armor until you died :laugh:
 
It's just disappointing that a company generates $ 3M + and is not able to provide proper entertainment to its players at a reasonable price instead of increasing those revenues at all costs. There are people relieved to be able to be back play thanks to the 2.0 (hope) :lolup::laugh:it is just incredible frankly.
We are not even in an update to attract players :wise:we are in an update to keep those who have not already been dropped :laugh::laugh:

#SoulofPE
 
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