Developer Notes #11 - Loot 2.0

[Carn]

Having read the developer's introduction to the new loot system, i think that reasonably some positive conclusions can be drawn :

1) the old loot system, based on cycles, had been "decrypted" by some players who took an excessive advantage from it, up to the creation of "loot forecasting softwares". All even discussed on this forum.
Clearly such an unbalance was a damage for the vast majority of players, and clearly MindArk couldn't stand such a situation :
it was just a matter of time before the loot system changed.

I think so too and i am very glad that they change it. Finally an end to the unfair advantage some players had by exploiting.
Most people complaining about the new loot system, are possibly the people who use such software with a big advantage and now they fear that they won't profit anymore like before

To those people you can maybe just say "You need to adapt" hahahaha, you exploiters are so screwed because now you need to actually learn the game

 

[Mary Jane]

MOre bloody blueprints....you have GOT to be kidding me.

We already have 90%+ blueprints no longer in use...(nothing to do with EP, before people start complaining).....pllease for the LOVE OF GOD, don't introduce anymore.

Give the bloody ones we have some use first.

Make all craftable limited guns competitive vs unlimited. Stop dropping limited guns in hunting loot.


For christs sake DO NOT ADD more materials and blueprints.

Think for once MA! (idiots!)



Rgds

Ace

I dont understand we as players know much more about economy than Mindark. Is so obvious Ace your point but they want new Bps, new minerals, new bullshit for people deposit massive amounts of $ just to see the new items hofs.

I been deposit large sums of money as investment in game and withdraw when selling the same investments.
From my last 2 years playing I have lost more than 50k much more than the other 10 years together.
I have promise to myself I will not deposit large sums anymore until I see a shinny future in this game as:

1. Explosives BP need to disappear to open a chance for miners sell their ores with more MU and people have a reason to click other bps in game.
2.Stop droop UNL items and put all Limited to stimulate many bps existing and boost the Auction house with more sales.
3.Implement 100% what this thread is mentioning to avoid people leave the game after big losses.
4.Fix Auction House when selling very expensive items to a more secure system.

Until I do not see this 4 points done or even 3 of them my investments in this game will never going to happen.
Stock Markets can be much profitable than this game and it is my path at the moment since long ago this game pass from a ambition to create the best RCE game ever made to greediness where every promise is possible to play with people hopes and keep deposit $ and ended up losing it.

Mind Dark promises are like the make up in a ugly woman.
They paint a beautiful history around promises but when you find out you ended up losing allot of money for a simple illusion.

Best guys

 

[stc44]

open a chance for miners sell their ores with more MU and people have a reason to click other bps in game

They're probably doing just that with L armor requiring no skills to wear since there will be some demand for crafted L armor. That may actually increase the need of mining and armor crafting professions.
Or may not.

 

[Wisdom]

MOre bloody blueprints....you have GOT to be kidding me.

We already have 90%+ blueprints no longer in use...(nothing to do with EP, before people start complaining).....pllease for the LOVE OF GOD, don't introduce anymore.

Give the bloody ones we have some use first.


Rgds

Ace

I think the skilled crafters (e.g. Auktuma) will strongly disagree with the 90% number. So Auk has perhaps every conceivable BP in game, twice or trice over; yet he only crafts perseus, some plates, and mod evil due to the realities of crafting today. So the percentage of useless BPs is closer to 99.x% than to 90%.

 

[Fifth]

Let's talk about skills 2.0

Avatar skills will play a role in loot calculations and this role will be expanded in future Version Updates. Imagine new professions that offer hunting specialization opportunities and a way to incrementally increase net loot returns for dedicated and active hunters.

People read it as "skills will matter", "the more skills you have the better your loot".

Suppose that's the correct interpretation. If so, all ubers instantly have a permanent loot bonus, medium skilled won't gain or lose anything and the newcomers, the most numerous group would carry the burden of subsidizing the ubers.
Will they really throw all the newcomers under the bus? Neah, not likely. Even if they would, this house of cards would collapse eventually on it's own.

Looks like it's not the skills in the general sense, it's those brand new skills introduced with the Loot 2.0 VU.
So you thought your skills will be worth more? Silly you... Just another rats race, another cash grab called "investment opportunity".

"Hurry! Chip in your brand new special hunting skills! Good investment, hunting loot bonus guaranteed!"

 

[Mercury]

I believe the biggest new "draw" would be if there were new unlocks after level 100 for myself and many others included. Skills already matter so I'm not going to read into that much at this point.

 

[Xen]

[*]A new Economy rating parameter will be introduced, on a scale of 1-100, that indicates the efficiency of a tool and which influences loot calculations. This change from the once dominant damage/pec model will provide the design team with more freedom to release exciting and interesting items with a wider range of damage output and special effects. For example, our team will have the ability to create powerful new items that provide access to challenging and exciting content without dramatically increasing cost to play. Existing items will be assigned Economy values that reflect their relative efficiency to one another and to the entire array of items in the universe.

I think this needs to be clarified and quickly. Simply the efficiency rating influences loot calculations? So you could have a high eco weapon now and if MA for whatever reason just decides to stick a not so great "economy rating" on it you are screwed? Will imk2, mod merc, etc. initially have some of the highest economy ratings but not near 100 and MA will release new weapons with higher economy ratings that will make our current weapons obsolete and force us to spend even more money to have high economy again? Introducing this degree of doubt into the economy now is not good.

 

[Noorie]

Wow, when I first looked at this thread, it seemed to be a wish list of someone's wild dreams

But hey, its true

A new Era is about to begin, let's give it a try

 

[The Jetman]

I think this needs to be clarified and quickly. Simply the efficiency rating influences loot calculations? So you could have a high eco weapon now and if MA for whatever reason just decides to stick a not so great "economy rating" on it you are screwed? Will imk2, mod merc, etc. initially have some of the highest economy ratings but not near 100 and MA will release new weapons with higher economy ratings that will make our current weapons obsolete and force us to spend even more money to have high economy again? Introducing this degree of doubt into the economy now is not good.

i think we'll see more balancing than anything, the uber guns will still be better than say a Xent X3 but only a few %. new (L) crafted guns will be the highest economy rating

People read it as "skills will matter", "the more skills you have the better your loot".

Suppose that's the correct interpretation. If so, all ubers instantly have a permanent loot bonus, medium skilled won't gain or lose anything and the newcomers, the most numerous group would carry the burden of subsidizing the ubers.
Will they really throw all the newcomers under the bus? Neah, not likely. Even if they would, this house of cards would collapse eventually on it's own.

Looks like it's not the skills in the general sense, it's those brand new skills introduced with the Loot 2.0 VU.
So you thought your skills will be worth more? Silly you... Just another rats race, another cash grab called "investment opportunity".

"Hurry! Chip in your brand new special hunting skills! Good investment, hunting loot bonus guaranteed!"

it could be for every 10 skill levels you beat your weapons maxed by = 1 economy point to a max of say 3-4%, so all players across the board will benefit in some way

 

[Oleg]

Wild speculation - is this really just a way of making loot more random while still avoiding the game being defined as gambling, since they can point to the effect of efficiency and skill on loot? If this is the case then perhaps nothing will really change other than the removal of loot waves.

 

[Fifth]

it could be for every 10 skill levels you beat your weapons maxed by = 1 economy point to a max of say 3-4%, so all players across the board will benefit in some way

You mean like retrospectively? the guy @ lvl 10 has 1 eco point, and I will have 10 eco points?
I will then have the 3-4% advantage over the newcomers?

You can surely say "It benefit's all players across the board in some way"... provided you're working for the MA's marketing or PR department.
In plain English this ofc reads: "Let's throw the noobs under the bus!"

Wanna go to Rookie channel tell the newcomers they can surely get the equal opportunities with ubers? You can explain them all they have to do is to skill up to lvl 100! Easy peasy! I would have so much fun reading their responses to this...


Neah, the only reasonable way MA could implement this is by introducing new skills/professions and make them non-chippable. Then it would violate every RCE principle in the book but it at least won't turn int another cheap cash grab campaign.

 

[The Jetman]

You mean like retrospectively? the guy @ lvl 10 has 1 eco point, and I will have 10 eco points?
I will then have the 3-4% advantage over the newcomers?

You can surely say "It benefit's all players across the board in some way"... provided you're working for the MA's marketing or PR department.
In plain English this ofc reads: "Let's throw the noobs under the bus!"

Wanna go to Rookie channel tell the newcomers they can surely get the equal opportunities with ubers? You can explain them all they have to do is to skill up to lvl 100! Easy peasy! I would have so much fun reading their responses to this...


Neah, the only reasonable way MA could implement this is by introducing new skills/professions and make them non-chippable. Then it would violate every RCE principle in the book but it at least won't turn int another cheap cash grab campaign.

i mean if you used a Xent X3, its maxed at 8, so at 18 you get +1, 28 you get +2 and so on,but a A-3 Justifier Mk.II Improved is maxed at 100, so would require 110 to get +1.

it wouldn't put a lvl 28 on par with a lvl 100 but the 28 would get a boost on his hunting. of course he can't go as high due to killing speed with X3 would be so poor the other factors would counter it

 

[Mac]

I think this needs to be clarified and quickly. Simply the efficiency rating influences loot calculations? So you could have a high eco weapon now and if MA for whatever reason just decides to stick a not so great "economy rating" on it you are screwed? Will imk2, mod merc, etc. initially have some of the highest economy ratings but not near 100 and MA will release new weapons with higher economy ratings that will make our current weapons obsolete and force us to spend even more money to have high economy again? Introducing this degree of doubt into the economy now is not good.

Some say, there is always risk with MA, don't "invest" more than you can stand to loose. Although I can afford it, I would not like it. Who of us that have spent a lot on gear to get as much advantage as we could afford would like to see our investments nerfed more than they already have? I have to say, I am concerned about my "investments" at this point.

I wonder how much a part enhancers will play at this point. I have been doing fine running my t10 mm and t6 arso ten chip with ZERO! enhancers because of the ridiculous "supply and demand" prices they have been selling for. I would hate to see them make enhancers required part of the loot process without fixing the screwed up economy surrounding them.

 

[Oracle]

Developer Notes #11 - Loot 2.0

Imagine new professions that offer hunting specialization opportunities and a way to incrementally increase net loot returns for dedicated and active hunters.

Could this mean specialised hunting professions per a particular mob or related to a specific place (eg. planet specific)?

 

[Mac]

Could this mean specialised hunting professions per a particular mob or related to a specific place (eg. planet specific)?

I am concerned about this. I play this game because of the open sandbox aspect it has mostly offered, however I have seen that constantly eroded away over the years. I would hate to be put into a mob hunting box it seems they are proposing, i.e., you can only hunt this mob at this level with this gear to be "eco".

I liked the old game where people had to take personal responsibility for their success and failure, I don't like this big brother hand holding guard rails to protect people from themselves, thereby taking away the freedom of others like me to do what I want.

 

[Fifth]

i mean if you used a Xent X3, its maxed at 8, so at 18 you get +1, 28 you get +2 and so on,but a A-3 Justifier Mk.II Improved is maxed at 100, so would require 110 to get +1.

it wouldn't put a lvl 28 on par with a lvl 100 but the 28 would get a boost on his hunting. of course he can't go as high due to killing speed with X3 would be so poor the other factors would counter it

Exactly. The whole ideology of loot 2.0 seems to be "the right weapon for the right mob". The guy who's still running around with Xent X3 at lvl 50 will be penalized into the ground so deep all his fancy skill bonus would be lost anyway.

O well, none of us really knows how exactly they intend to do it. Suppose we'll have to wait and see... and I hate it!

 

[OZtwo]

Having read the developer's introduction to the new loot system, i think that reasonably some positive conclusions can be drawn :

1) the old loot system, based on cycles, had been "decrypted" by some players who took an excessive advantage from it, up to the creation of "loot forecasting softwares". All even discussed on this forum.
Clearly such an unbalance was a damage for the vast majority of players, and clearly MindArk couldn't stand such a situation :
it was just a matter of time before the loot system changed.

2) they studied a new loot system, protected from the danger of "loot forecasting softwares", or -better- so open and predictable, so "democratic", that now everyone knows what is takes to win : efficiency in hunting.
You are a random shooter ? You lose.
You hunt efficiently and wisely ? You profit.

3) "Efficiency" in hunting means, fairly, efficient weapons, efficient hunting "tactics" (the choice of mobs you can handle and kill efficiently and fast).

You did forgot 4) As they worked on Compets new system they found this system after being tested for a bit could be moved over to EU and used.


No issues with this, but does answer where they been testing and/or got the new system?

 

[Xen]

Exactly. The whole ideology of loot 2.0 seems to be "the right weapon for the right mob". The guy who's still running around with Xent X3 at lvl 50 will be penalized into the ground so deep all his fancy skill bonus would be lost anyway.

O well, none of us really knows how exactly they intend to do it. Suppose we'll have to wait and see... and I hate it!

That would be extremely bad, I don't want to be forced to hunt big mobs because I'm higher skilled. There are still many missions that I would like to do that are small/mid sized mobs. That might kill the game for me.

 

[OZtwo]

That would be extremely bad, I don't want to be forced to hunt big mobs because I'm higher skilled. There are still many missions that I would like to do that are small/mid sized mobs. That might kill the game for me.

Yes this could be an issue. The only reason that I am still OpaloMan is due to the simple fact that I haven't finished all missions on the lower level mobs yet. I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel but I have many years yet to go.

 

[Fifth]

That would be extremely bad, I don't want to be forced to hunt big mobs because I'm higher skilled. There are still many missions that I would like to do that are small/mid sized mobs. That might kill the game for me.

Right, makes me wary too.
I like to be able to do more when my skills improve. Taking this freedom away seems kinda autocratic and backwards, I'm pretty sure nobody would be happy about that... unless there's a really big carrot, and I'm not sure how they could possibly manage a carrot big enough to make up for the lost freedom.

 

[Me Really Never]

i dont know why everyone assumes that you will get punished for killing low end mobs with high skills. that doesnt make any sense and wont be the case. it lot more likely is that you get punished for hunting over your level ineffeciently which basically is already the case. i dont think the change and the impact of skills will be huge.

to be fair MA said that skills matter since the beginning of time although skills dont matter a single shit after ur weapon / tool / bp is maxed. any excess skill has no impact.

 

[Mac]

 

[Fifth]

Loot value calculations and the composition of the items in loot will be affected by properly matching avatar skills [...] to the creature being hunted, ...

I guess, the only real way to get away from that one is to assume they're flat out lying and will never really implement that.
Are you certain that's the case?

 

[Sub-Zero]

I guess, the only real way to get away from that one is to assume they're flat out lying and will never really implement that.
Are you certain that's the case?

It does kinda sound like they're gonna make so people hunt at their level actually, otherwise they get "unmatched loot".

If they add it like this, huge shitstorm with pitchforks I bet.

 

[Xen]

It does kinda sound like they're gonna make so people hunt at their level actually, otherwise they get "unmatched loot".

If they add it like this, huge shitstorm with pitchforks I bet.

Yeah, would be time for a sit strike in PA. Oh, wait...

 

[Fifth]

Yeah, would be time for a sit strike in PA. Oh, wait...

Right...

 

[The Jetman]

I guess, the only real way to get away from that one is to assume they're flat out lying and will never really implement that.
Are you certain that's the case?

maybe it could mean the higher robot investigator skill while killing drones the better the loot?

could also mean mobs have resistances/weaknesses to different damage types, meaning you need to pick your gun before you hunt

 

[Liu]

Right...

I'm the one sitting in the middle with white hair

 

[SpikeBlack]

Right, makes me wary too.
I like to be able to do more when my skills improve. Taking this freedom away seems kinda autocratic and backwards, I'm pretty sure nobody would be happy about that... unless there's a really big carrot, and I'm not sure how they could possibly manage a carrot big enough to make up for the lost freedom.

It's also a nice way to get people to gradually increase their deposits - we all started small and as we skilled up many of us would add a few more dollars to the point where for some it's hundreds or thousands per month.

Now we're getting a nice little number on stuff to encourage that even more

A bit cynical, may be a lot for many, but I've seen too much crap from MA over the years to be any other way when they announce something like this.

 

[Pratahn]

Nothing seems to be said about the team hunting. Now team of 2 lvl 30 easily kills proterons young lvl 44. The same is in the newbie gauntlet instance - there were I think lvl 9 mobs similar to marcimex and hitting more then the lvl bosses.