FYI: +80% loss

[AtamiKiangola]

next runs will compensate, you should know that after 5 years.

 

[JaKst3r]

You should know better than to post such drivel.

The way the loot system works is not overly complex and is well known within the first months of playing. Perhaps you have forgotten one basic fact, or like many players are too stupid to figure it out. In order for there to be globals and HOFs by some players, there must be loses by other players. Your 80% loses described here went to feed another players profit. In order to have new names on the HOF list every day hundreds and hundreds of other players must loose PED.
Please deposit all the money you have and throw it into the loot pool for the rest of us to feed off of and encourage all your friends and any new players you meet to do the same.

I would suggest your theory is also infact wrong.

MA has consistently shown an almost fixed ROI over time when you monitor your TT in v TT out over a reasonable number of hunts. His 80% loss was more likely due to a) ambu are high hp regen mobs that need a high ped cycle to even out and loot something nice b) he tells us he doesnt bother hunting eco.

 

[sob]

Someone said something about hunting longtooths and I would just like to explain that the reason that I've never killed more than a few of those is exactly that they can give no loot and if I've actually hunted them anyway, and had been unlucky enough to get the same return, I would not have made this thread as that would, in my mind, just be bad luck. I don't think that it's the same story with ambus and other creatures which is known to never provide you with those nasty yellow letters, but of course, that is just an opinion.

I dont see how they are that different. The yellow messages doesnt really matter if you use a turnover propotional to the mob you are hunting (based on hp/regen).

And I dont see how a few pecs can be that much better than no loot when you spend 1-5 peds on killing something, especially when a mob like this usually give big globals. In my opinion its just a psychological effect that you need to ignore.

 

[Zacariaz]

Please deposit all the money you have and throw it into the loot pool for the rest of us to feed off of and encourage all your friends and any new players you meet to do the same.

I basicaly have... Have you?

 

[Zacariaz]

next runs will compensate, you should know that after 5 years.

After 5 years one thing I do know is that this is NOT a fact, other wise I would not have to deposit as much as I do.

But I do of course hope that you're right

I dont see how they are that different. The yellow messages doesnt really matter if you use a turnover propotional to the mob you are hunting (based on hp/regen).

And I dont see how a few pecs can be that much better than no loot when you spend 1-5 peds on killing something, especially when a mob like this usually give big globals. In my opinion its just a psychological effect that you need to ignore.

Significantly higher cost per kill and lower minimum loot? I'd say that's a pretty big difference.

 

[AtamiKiangola]

After 5 years one thing I do know is that this is NOT a fact, other wise I would not have to deposit as much as I do.

But I do of course hope that you're right



Significantly higher cost per kill and lower minimum loot? I'd say that's a pretty big difference.

I'm not saying that you will get back up to 150% or profit. That is what we all want ofc. But it will not stay at -80%, I'm sure you know that.

And yes you will have to deposit like most of us as we pay to play. To more you play, the more you pay ... immediately also the "-" of this business model. Unless you are making it your profession perhaps for some people.

If you log for a couple of months all the returns you will see a pattern which always put you back the average % return (with a margin ofc).

I said this a couple of times before, but to loot a 350 ped TT L weapon, you will first loose a serious amount of ped to compensate. So maybe something is waiting out there for you ... maybe not.

My message was only meant to say that -80% on 100 ambu does not give you any information at all concerning your returns.

Regards,

Atami

 

[~CHOPPER~]

MA has consistently shown an almost fixed ROI over time when you monitor your TT in v TT out over a reasonable number of hunts.

Maybe for you it is, but that's no fact.

A few win big, most lose and many more lose big. Thats one true fact in EU.

 

[Futurama]

Wrong. Depositing does give you benefits and advantages, not because MA/FPC will threat you any different, but because it enables you to turn over more PED, hunt bigger creatures and so on and so forth. Of course, if you cycle more PED, the potential loss is bigger, but if you hunt bigger creatures, the potential gain is, usually, also greater.

Thats exactly what i said...


Aynway, about your answer to AtamiKiangola - you still haven`t told what your "I don't usually care much for eco hunting" equipment and skills are.

 

[Kerham]

wow 100 whole ambu. uber.

That's the problem, imo.

I understand that you view things different and you have a certain opinion over EU, but should exist a limit to things possible to happen.

There is no reason in hell which can be rationally sustained for which MA changed the minimum possible return from 70%ish ~2005 to 50%ish around 2008 to 30%ish nowadays on short runs.

In a similar fashion, there is no reason for which in 2005 you could live with a few hundreds peds, in 2007-2008 it climbed toward 1k and now well, guess, depends on what you do.

Of course I understand MA's tactics to implement larger and larger turnovers needed to break even, but they're over the point in which it became silly.

That's the problem, imo.

And the more and more they'll press in this direction, generations will turn and you'll be able to witness newer players pointing fingers on EF that you should hunt argo young with 10k ped budget to have a chance to break even, else you're a whiner.

Of course us as players (if we still want to participate) have no other option than to adapt and to spend even more, but not all are prone to keep paying more and more for basically same product and same level of participation.

Namely I've camped on and off ambu when Nikky (sry for spelling) looted shadow on them for 2 months (with maffoids @ old Argus) with the impressive budget of 600 peds. That would be impossible now.

 

[SuperKanjo]

Maybe for you it is, but that's no fact.

It's proven over and over again. Sure there are exceptions, but if you look at the bigger picture it's true.

 

[~CHOPPER~]

It's proven over and over again. Sure there are exceptions, but if you look at the bigger picture it's true.

Naa,

Maybe in the old glory days, not any more.

About 4 years ago I saw a you tube of an explanation from MA of where the money comes from ( it may of been Frank) He explained it was from in game advertising which is also a thing of the past

People have shitty runs, thats where the big ass hofs and ATH's come from.


There would be NO way for MA to sustain its current overhead and lotto size ATH's, hof's, and all the withdrawles if this old theory was still true.

Just forget the pre gold theory's everyone, it does not hold water any more.

 

[sob]

Significantly higher cost per kill and lower minimum loot? I'd say that's a pretty big difference.

I havent been hunting ambus too much lately so Im not sure what the normal minimum loot is, but more than likely its a matter of pecs. And Im almost sure that Ive had no loot on ambus as well since VU9-10.

Anyways... you have to look at average loot (and markup items if you want better profit), not the min or max.

If you are using minimum loot as an argument against not huntin longtooth, I could counter the argument by saying that maximum loot is higher so you should hunt them.

I dont know this for sure, but you should get similar % return killing 100 ambus vs 100 longtooth in ideal conditions (same items in loot and same amound of people hunting them).

Its just a matter of higher or lower stakes. If youre playing higher stakes you need a equally propotional turnover. Spending 300 peds on ambus is not the same as spending 300 peds on snables, but killing 100 ambus and 100 snables is. In most cases snables would come out as the winner in my experience if you disregard big (and rare) loots.

 

[sndlwood]

I would suggest your theory is also infact wrong.

MA has consistently shown an almost fixed ROI over time when you monitor your TT in v TT out over a reasonable number of hunts. His 80% loss was more likely due to a) ambu are high hp regen mobs that need a high ped cycle to even out and loot something nice b) he tells us he doesnt bother hunting eco.

This is also correct. Over time returns will average out somewhere well below 100%. However, on a daily basis the players toss the ball of big loot returns back and forth, like a giant beach ball at a stadium concert. On any given day only a few players get to touch the ball though we all helped to fill it with air. Some players fill it more than others.

The current ROI, whatever it might be, is justifiable. At least in the minds of those who run the show. As there are bills to pay and investors to make rich. Which is in fact the only reason Entropia exists. To make money. Constantly coming back and venting your frustration over these obvious facts, blaming the developer for your own ineptitude, and then going back in game time and time again and repeating the same cycle is what? Stupid?

I include myself in the above category. I log in every day, often for hours (since 2004), trying to get my hands on one of MAs big balls. I have held them once or twice, but they slipped out of my grasp. However, I understand and accept the reality of the situation I return to it every day and actually think that one day it will change. Which makes me what? Insane?

 

[~CHOPPER~]

trying to get my hands on one of MAs big balls.

Just one?

 

[Zacariaz]

Anyways... you have to look at average loot (and markup items if you want better profit), not the min or max.

True, but when it comes to luck, which what started this amby vs. LT battle, there's other factors to consider. Fx. with a specific budget, fx. 5000 ped, you can kill a whole of a lot more ambus than LT's and ambus don't give no loot, at least not to me. I'd say min loot is ~1 ped, but I'm probably gonna hear for that. Anyway, even if ambus gave no loot, a no loot from an LT is still a whole lot more expensive than from an ambu, thus it's a whole lot more expensive, being unlucky.

If you are using minimum loot as an argument against not huntin longtooth, I could counter the argument by saying that maximum loot is higher so you should hunt them.

That would be a poor counter argument. If you look at the tracker you'll see that I'm incapable of reaching 4 digits from anything.

 

[SuperKanjo]

People have shitty runs, thats where the big ass hofs and ATH's come from.

We were talking about the return %, you don't measure that in a few runs. So you can still have shitty and very good runs, and overall it comes down to a certain %. And since that % is below 100% thats how uberhofs are payed imo.

Normal lower hofs and globals are just part of the return % while a huge hof or even ATH is pure luck. But then again, the more peds you cycle, the more tickets you buy for the ATH lottery. That how i see it.

 

[Zacariaz]

Aynway, about your answer to AtamiKiangola - you still haven`t told what your "I don't usually care much for eco hunting" equipment and skills are.

I don't think it matters. if I'd been on the same run with the most eco gun ingame, uber evade, etc. it would still have been unreasonably low return.

 

[Futurama]

I don't think it matters. if I'd been on the same run with the most eco gun ingame, uber evade, etc. it would still have been unreasonably low return.

It may "not matter" in a one single run, but it will definetly matter in 5-10 runs and to infinity.

 

[sob]

True, but when it comes to luck, which what started this amby vs. LT battle, there's other factors to consider. Fx. with a specific budget, fx. 5000 ped, you can kill a whole of a lot more ambus than LT's and ambus don't give no loot, at least not to me. I'd say min loot is ~1 ped, but I'm probably gonna hear for that. Anyway, even if ambus gave no loot, a no loot from an LT is still a whole lot more expensive than from an ambu, thus it's a whole lot more expensive, being unlucky.

Maybe thats you problem, that you are relying too much on luck. To be successfull you have put all your focus on how to minimize your losses.
You have to decide what you are hunting according to your budget, and when you kill 100 ambus in one hunt you are not doing that in my opinion.

And like I said, if the longtooth gives no loot and ambus does, its completly irrelevant. The ONLY thing that matters, if you want good return, is the average return (including markup).

And if you are unhappy with your average return you have to improve one or more of these factors:

• Turnover
• Eco
• DPS
• Mob (in regards to what mob will drop items with market value)
• Location
• When you hunt

I do agree that 80% loss is way to much on killing 100 ambus. In a perfect EU it should not be like that, but it happens so you are forced to deal with it.

Back in the days the loot was alot more stable and you did not need a high turnover to get the appropriate average loot. But this is 2010 and MA obviously changed things...
Both stable and unstable loot has its pros and cons so its up to you to decide if you want to dedicate the time to harvest the pros.

 

[AtamiKiangola]

I don't think it matters. if I'd been on the same run with the most eco gun ingame, uber evade, etc. it would still have been unreasonably low return.

It does matter, it will give you a couple of % difference.
A 80% loss would be 70% loss (as matter of speaking)

But all in this game is about small %, which in the long run make a massive difference (both in + and - way).

 

[sob]

That would be a poor counter argument. If you look at the tracker you'll see that I'm incapable of reaching 4 digits from anything.

I dont see how you not having a 4 digit loot has anything to do with that argument. Surely the loot system is the same for all of us.
Or are you sayin that I could only use this argument on people that had uber loots on LT?
You have to look at the big picture and the average loot or TT return.

 

[Matho]

Why are many of you still so sure about that % return.

Where did MA announced it remained untouched?

 

[AtamiKiangola]

Why are many of you still so sure about that % return.

Where did MA announced it remained untouched?

They never said it did not chance, they only say that the return is a % of what you put in and that as a basic mechanism didn't change.

And why I am sure about my %, because my personal data & calculations don't lie

 

[sob]

Why are many of you still so sure about that % return.

Where did MA announced it remained untouched?

No one will ever have the facts, but all my experiences points towards higher turnover propotional to a mob (hp/regen) equals a more stable return. The best chance of profit is looting regular items with market value with long hunting sessions.

My best (and most stable) hunting returns came from a period where a hunting session lasted until I broke even or profited. I was hunting with p5a/h400/vass/blix and I could easily spend anything from 2-7 hours per session. I dont think I ever aborted a hunt with under 80% return (including markup).

PS: I usually lose alot when I do short or impulsive hunts, which is pretty much all I have time for now.

 

[sndlwood]

No one will ever have the facts, but all my experiences points towards higher turnover propotional to a mob (hp/regen) equals a more stable return. The best chance of profit is looting regular items with market value with long hunting sessions.

My best (and most stable) hunting returns came from a period where a hunting session lasted until I broke even or profited. I was hunting with p5a/h400/vass/blix and I could easily spend anything from 2-7 hours per session. I dont think I ever aborted a hunt with under 80% return (including markup).

PS: I usually lose alot when I do short or impulsive hunts, which is pretty much all I have time for now.

This is the best advise today. Most of us do short impulsive hunts, or team hunts where after a dozen or so mob, "nah, loot sucks lets go somewhere else".

I have heard this and similar from other experienced hunters. Stay on one mob, stay in one area, hunt, repair, repeat. If you drop out at -80%, you leave your PED for someone else to take.

 

[Aziphirael]

This is the best advise today. Most of us do short impulsive hunts, or team hunts where after a dozen or so mob, "nah, loot sucks lets go somewhere else".

I have heard this and similar from other experienced hunters. Stay on one mob, stay in one area, hunt, repair, repeat. If you drop out at -80%, you leave your PED for someone else to take.

Its what I've found as well from my experience. That to cut out the "variance" that will exist from short runs, you have to hunt for quite long periods. Around 2 to 3 hours with enough kit to last that length of time.

I noticed that in Merry Mayhem. I played about 29 hours for it, most in two to three hour stints. And picked up I think it was four or five globals on Cornundacauda's. By that reckoning means to get a global I need to hunt on average 6 to 7 hours per global.

 

[edeanp]

Mining is fun, and you get to travel to far off exotic places.

 

[Xen]

You really should kill more than 100 before complaining. More like 500. By then you can reasonably expect something like an average loot return.

 

[Zacariaz]

You really should kill more than 100 before complaining. More like 500. By then you can reasonably expect something like an average loot return.

I've probably done 500 today.

Average loot return.... I don't think I've even once on the number of runs I've done today have had a return that would even cover the ammo spend.

 

[Immortal]

I've probably done 500 today.

Average loot return.... I don't think I've even once on the number of runs I've done today have had a return that would even cover the ammo spend.

unless you actually write down numbers, it's just guessing, and completely pointless to discuss.