Question: About the system this forum is organized - asking for thinking of

Xandra

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Nov 30, 2005
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Xandra "MadMaiden" Xandottir
Hi,

This is a difficult theme. It's about the very basics. I know that the forum owner has a strong idea about how this should be handled - and I happen to disagree.
This now is not a call for insurgence, rebellion or riots - it's more a call for discussion, reasoning, thinking about and maybe find a way suiting all of our needs.

The current state:

EF is meant in a way that any thread should be posted in one of the many, sometimes well hidden, subforums. The "General Discussion" is only meant for the few topics that wouldn't suit elsewhere, and should generally be avoided. This is what I read from the descriptions, and from what have I have got as reply by the powers that are when asking about this.

How others do this:

This is very different to the huge majority of game forums where "General Discussion" is the central point. Close to any threads are made there, as long as they are not this specialized from the beginning to belong to a special interest sub forum.
Reading "General discussion" on a regular basis will give you a good overview what's happening, and you'll notice the left over topics that have been moved to the specialized sub forums.
You'd need to read "General Discussion" and the few special interest forums of your choice, and you'd be up to date.

Why does this hurt:

As mentioned, in other forums you'd read "General discussion" and would be on top of the daily news.
Not here. Since there's no "Collect all" forum in EF, since there's strong advice to bury your thread in one of the many sometimes quite remote sub forums you need to read them all. Not just "General" and the few most interesting to you, you need to read them all, or you'd risk to miss important information.

In other forums, anything of general interest will first be posted to "General", then maybe moved to a better suiting sub forum, leaving a notice. While this is kind of work for the Forum Admins and Mods it has a huge benefit for the users: Anybody checking "General" on a regular basis will rarely ever miss something of "General Interest".

Consequences:


The way it's done here is causing a lot of missings. Who really checks every other sub forum? So things like this are possible:

Today, in a thread of random, I read a remark about Bolgar, followed by a link to the thread explaining its missing. This lead to "Greetings and Messages", buried at the very bottom of the thread list.
There I found the message of his death.

Is it really approbate to bury messages of the death of a most prominent participant in a remote sub forum out of anybody's sight? Wouldn't such cry for being prominently placed in a main forum anybody reads?

So my question:

Tell us what you are thinking of this. Are you happy with the current state, or would you like a change like I mentioned? If you are Admin/ Mod/ Owner of this site, what do you think? A chance to change?

(Usual "Have fun!" skipped due to the mentioned passing of one of us. Thinking of "fun" when you just read about the death of a good friend seems just wrong.)
 
When I read EF I click on the 'New Posts' link in the top menu bar. I don't miss any posts that way.

The emphasis on subforums keeps the site nice and tidy.

No need to change IMO.
 
You should use the button "New Posts"

How remote and distant and burried a post is I never miss it.
 
Same, I always look for a New Posts option, on any forum I'm on, as it allows me to quickly scan through all posts.
 
If I want to know what's hot today, "New Posts" is the way to go. it's the link on this forum that I use most frequently. But when I'm interested in some particular topic, having separate sections for hunting, mining, technical issues, noob info etc is very handy. Otherwise some older threads would be hard to find.

This forum may look a bit intimidating to someone visiting it first few times but as an experienced user I find it very well organized, so I wouldn't change anything.
 
I agree with all of the above I also use New Post and also look into my subcribtions if anything new have been written.
 
Put me down for the "new post" button as well. Its what I use.

narfi
 
Perhaps 'greetings and messages' was a bit obscure, simple as that?

When I've been away too long (happens a lot) and clicking New Posts generates 20+ pages of fresh browsing, I accept that it's a fast paced forum and that I will never have time to read it all. Chances are, if I didn't stop by...maybe I don't need that info either.

If you have the time, use 'Previous Thread' at bottom of an opened thread. I think that will skip threads that get bumped while you're reading but works well for posts that are past New Posts and so moves a bit slowly or not at all.

EDIT Ah yes, as for dumping all of it in a General section... I'm addicted to playtesting alpha/beta korean micropayment grinders, often franchised by a few pimply teens in the states. Many of them use that method because it's a superb way to bury information completely =)

Yes I admit to having read your post very quickly, sorry about that. I'm sure it was more nuanced.
 
When I read EF I click on the 'New Posts' link in the top menu bar. I don't miss any posts that way.

The emphasis on subforums keeps the site nice and tidy.

No need to change IMO.

You should use the button "New Posts"

How remote and distant and burried a post is I never miss it.

Same, I always look for a New Posts option, on any forum I'm on, as it allows me to quickly scan through all posts.

etc...

I also use the "new posts" feature to get an overview of all the new posts. I think this forum is very well organised. I would not change a thing. :)

Cheers :beerchug:
 
just use the new post link right below you avatar to the right on the frontpage :)
 
To echo the sentiments of the others... I also hit the New Posts button. In addition, you can select certain Forums to be excluded from New Posts. For example, I chose to exclude Buying and Selling threads because there is simply too much traffic in there for me.
 
While the New Post link is the most often used, and probably best feature of this forum bar none, I can understand Xandra's POV. It's very conceivable that Xandra could have missed that thread even using that feature. Despite my vast time on this forum, even I miss threads.

However, the alternative you recommend I do not see as making any improvement to that situation.

Considering how much data and sections EU is comprised of (item/mob stats, player blogs, skills, professions, loot, hunting, sweating, shops, selling, buying, etc.) having all those threads without any (or with minimal) categorization would make things so much worse. For example, a dedicated hunter might not care at all about the latest blueprint drops.

With categories, a person can browse and search specific sections, without having to deal with the other unneeded threads. I myself, often do research and perform many advanced searches that narrow my searches to specific categories. And certain reference threads I often use are easy for me to find due to popping into the correct category.

Even before I became a mod, I was quite happy at the many, many ways a person can use this forum:

  • Check new posts
  • Browse specific categories
  • Sort categories by Thread, Thread Starter, Last Post, Replies & Views
  • Search
  • Advanced searches, narrowing by keywords, persons, categories, time, etc, etc.
  • Subscribed threads (even those offer categorization)
  • ForumSpy (a sort of running New Post feature)
  • Etc. etc.

Each reader is offered many, many ways to find the information they find personally interesting.

I am sorry you feel unhappy about learning of that tragedy too late, however, if you think it through carefully, I'm sure you'll realize that removing categories is not the answer.

And besides, as an unpaid volunteer moderator, I really detest any recommendations that would increase my workload. So my opinion may seem a bit biased.
 
Hi,

Thank you all for your feedback!

I have learned that my problem actually seems to be just MY problem, because close to nobody replying did see it as a problem at all ;-)

Regarding the hints to the "New Posts" functionality I have to admit that I never before even tried it - now I did, for sure: 193 threads, 8 pages, a mixup of whatever was written at all in past 2 days, unsortable - to be honest, it's not what I'd want to use on a daily base ...
Maybe it'd work better if I'd find out how to exclude certain forums, as Rayne mentioned.

Summary: seems to be something like a clash of cultures ;-) I'm reading/ participating in forums for quite a long time now, even did already when PE was still to be invented. This forms certain expectations, I guess, and it might be quite hard to realize that the times have changed, and that these days other ways to browse are better accepted.

So this can be closed, I do now know about the how's and why's, and I'll learn to accept it :)

Have fun! And thanks for your input!
 
Hi,

Thank you all for your feedback!

I have learned that my problem actually seems to be just MY problem, because close to nobody replying did see it as a problem at all ;-)

Regarding the hints to the "New Posts" functionality I have to admit that I never before even tried it - now I did, for sure: 193 threads, 8 pages, a mixup of whatever was written at all in past 2 days, unsortable - to be honest, it's not what I'd want to use on a daily base ...
Maybe it'd work better if I'd find out how to exclude certain forums, as Rayne mentioned.

Summary: seems to be something like a clash of cultures ;-) I'm reading/ participating in forums for quite a long time now, even did already when PE was still to be invented. This forms certain expectations, I guess, and it might be quite hard to realize that the times have changed, and that these days other ways to browse are better accepted.

So this can be closed, I do now know about the how's and why's, and I'll learn to accept it :)

Have fun! And thanks for your input!

to exclude forums go into your controllpanel. Just hold down ctrl when choosing more than one forum i think.

And there is a simple solution to so many posts in the new post link.. check the forum often enough :p
 
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