Actual CoS in Coloring & Texturizing

[Sarah Charlton]

These are the actual average results, as well as the percentual chances to texturize or colour an item a certain way.

To clarify, the percents are the saturation levels. 65% doesn't mean that you have a 65% chance to color the item good, it means that in average, it will turn out as 65% colored of the full saturation

This first image is the average result depending on the amount of material you decide to use. 50 cans, or textures will for example most likely give you a very weak result, while it is indeed possible to get a better result as well. The second image tells you that there's a 1% chance to get a 90% success rate with 50 cans, so this is not a good amount to use if you'd like a good result.

150 cans may be used on certain bright colors on separate fields, while I would never recommend it on darker colors, as it's easier to spot a failure on the darker ones.

200 cans per field is currently the best amount to use, at a decent cost. The average result is excellent, and it's hard to see the difference between 90% and 100%, so a 77% success rate is very good.

300 cans per field may be very expensive in certain cases, but it almost guarantees a perfect result, with close to 90% success rate on a 95% result.

I have done a couple of attempts with higher amounts as well, and it appears as if you need to use close to 400 cans or textures if you'd like to guarantee a 100% chance of success. There's however no reason to use 400 cans or textures, as 200 will almost always give you a 96 - 98% result.

 

[Sarah Charlton]

I just updated the average percentual results in the first image, this may make it easier to see the difference between the different amounts.

 

[Xen]

What do you think is the equivalent of 20 cans in the old system? 200 cans? 300, 400?

 

[Sarah Charlton]

The coloring system changed a lot from time to time in the last system, and was actually nerfed at least the last year.

Thus, it began with approximately 70-90% in chance of success, it was close to impossible to fail a coloration, and it always turned out really good. However, after a couple of Version Updates, the chance of success was decreased, and I believe it was as bad as 40-60% (for 100% result) in the final stage. 20 cans did however also mean that one of the fields could turn out very badly, while this hardly ever happens in the current system. This means that 20 cans in the old system could be something between 130 - 180 cans today, I suppose? Although, that is a very bad amount to use.

(One reason why I was very inactive in the end of the old coloring system, was because I was constantly speaking to Mindark about the chance of success, and refused to head ingame and color, as I was very afraid to fail on the expensive items.)

I believe that 200 cans per field is better than 20 cans was in the old system, and it's the amount I would recommend to use today.

What do you think is the equivalent of 20 cans in the old system? 200 cans? 300, 400?

 

[Xen]

The coloring system changed a lot from time to time in the last system, and was actually nerfed at least the last year.

Thus, it began with approximately 70-90% in chance of success, it was close to impossible to fail a coloration, and it always turned out really good. However, after a couple of Version Updates, the chance of success was decreased, and I believe it was as bad as 40-60% (for 100% result) in the final stage. 20 cans did however also mean that one of the fields could turn out very badly, while this hardly ever happens in the current system. This means that 20 cans in the old system could be something between 130 - 180 cans today, I suppose? Although, that is a very bad amount to use.

(One reason why I was very inactive in the end of the old coloring system, was because I was constantly speaking to Mindark about the chance of success, and refused to head ingame and color, as I was very afraid to fail on the expensive items.)

I believe that 200 cans per field is better than 20 cans was in the old system, and it's the amount I would recommend to use today.

I asked because I was trying to get an idea of the relative worth of paint cans today, at least the "high end" colors. So if you needed 20 cans in the old system and 200 now (approximations), shouldn't the value of high end paint cans be roughly 1/10th what they used to be?

 

[Sarah Charlton]

It should be, depending on how Mindark have balanced the drop-rate. I do however believe that certain colours should be even cheaper, as the drop-rate has been increased a lot on certain colours (Black especially) since the last coloring system.

There's also the fact that a lot of people (mostly old ones who return) have yet to learn that the new system requires 10x the amount of the old system.

I asked because I was trying to get an idea of the relative worth of paint cans today, at least the "high end" colors. So if you needed 20 cans in the old system and 200 now (approximations), shouldn't the value of high end paint cans be roughly 1/10th what they used to be?

 

[cevaliao]

Once again some very nice info Sarah. I have also done some attempts with the maximum of cans 1K and there is no notable difference between 1K and 300 cans. I also find that between 180 and 200 cans is best for multi-field clothing. However it's good to know the exact %. Also until you max out the color you will not get these results, if you just unlocked a color even using 300 cans will only give you about 70% success rate. +rep

Emery

 

[Sarah Charlton]

Indeed, I need to do more tests in order to see the difference between 200 cans and 185 cans, but I'll do that as soon as I'm able, and will update the chart then.

I usually try to use at least 185 cans per field for two fields, and 200 cans per field for three fields however. Although, it's important to use more cans on darker colours than on brighter colours.

Once again some very nice info Sarah. I have also done some attempts with the maximum of cans 1K and there is no notable difference between 1K and 300 cans. I also find that between 180 and 200 cans is best for multi-field clothing. However it's good to know the exact %. Also until you max out the color you will not get these results, if you just unlocked a color even using 300 cans will only give you about 70% success rate. +rep

Emery

 

[Futurama]

You have to be millionaire to get necessary amount of black paint cans.

 

[Etopia]

I use 150 paint , and my success on maxed paint is over what you seems to find...
Also , i have better success in new system with 150 paint than in old with 20...
Still , problem imho is cost to skill up , and cost to color something...
Even if i color for free , new system cost way more to people than old , because of markup...

 

[Sarah Charlton]

Indeed, it was cheaper one time, but the markup seems to be increasing on just about all the low/mid-end colors now.

It's very hard to see a failure however, using 150 paint cans, the average success is 86% Saturation, which means that it's close to perfectly colored. Anything over 90% Saturation is just about perfectly colored with the current system.

One of the few ways to see it is to compare two shirts colored in the same color, or if you color a Rex Top Hat. Some of the lines can then be weaker than the main field, which means that the hat has failed, even if it does indeed look good.

To clarify, the percents are the saturation levels. 65% doesn't mean that you have a 65% chance to color the item good, it means that in average, it will turn out as 65% colored of the full saturation

I use 150 paint , and my success on maxed paint is over what you seems to find...
Also , i have better success in new system with 150 paint than in old with 20...
Still , problem imho is cost to skill up , and cost to color something...
Even if i color for free , new system cost way more to people than old , because of markup...

 

[Etopia]

It's very hard to see a failure however, using 150 paint cans, the average success is 86% Saturation, which means that it's close to perfectly colored. Anything over 90% Saturation is just about perfectly colored with the current system.

One of the few ways to see it is to compare two shirts colored in the same color, or if you color a Rex Top Hat. Some of the lines can then be weaker than the main field, which means that the hat has failed, even if it does indeed look good.

To clarify, the percents are the saturation levels. 65% doesn't mean that you have a 65% to color the item good, it means that in average, it will turn out as 65% colored of the full saturation

It depend a lot on how many field , and even on wich clothe you color...
Clothe with 1 field dont need more than 150 can imho , as they very often come out perfect,even if , some clothe seems to be very very hard to color(i never did understand why)...
I do agrea that on 3 firld clothe using 150 cans may result it a bit lower saturation on one of field.
But for me , with the actual can cost , the lisstle diference with saturation and COS , dont worth the 50 cans...
when i color 4 or 5 clothe , there is one that fail... still cost less the re color it than using 200 cans on evrything(if its not one of those cursed clothe).

 

[Sarah Charlton]

Haha, I totally know what you mean when you're talking about cursed clothes. It was even worse in the last coloring system, but I get one of those items every once in a while now as well.

I suppose there are periods when we have a good chance of success, and those when it's bad however. Although, I find it funny that it can turn out badly on one item several times (If I use a lower amount of cans), and then, it'll turn out perfectly if I switch item and color something else.

It's true though, 150 cans is a good amount to use on items with one field, that usually works. Although, it's easier with brighter colors it seems, as it's harder to spot a failure, while I'm not to sure I'd dare use 150 black cans on one field, it would definately be better to invest in a few extra cans then.

It depend a lot on how many field , and even on wich clothe you color...
Clothe with 1 field dont need more than 150 can imho , as they very often come out perfect,even if , some clothe seems to be very very hard to color(i never did understand why)...
I do agrea that on 3 firld clothe using 150 cans may result it a bit lower saturation on one of field.
But for me , with the actual can cost , the lisstle diference with saturation and COS , dont worth the 50 cans...
when i color 4 or 5 clothe , there is one that fail... still cost less the re color it than using 200 cans on evrything(if its not one of those cursed clothe).

 

[Etopia]

Haha, I totally know what you mean when you're talking about cursed clothes. It was even worse in the last coloring system, but I get one of those items every once in a while now as well.

I suppose there are periods when we have a good chance of success, and those when it's bad however. Although, I find it funny that it can turn out badly on one item several times (If I use a lower amount of cans), and then, it'll turn out perfectly if I switch item and color something else.

It does not seems to be "time" "period" linked...
i had experience on som item allready ... where i did the whole set of the person... but 1 item turned bad colored...
The persone come back some time after with paint for 2 or 3 try... and all fail... come back again and all fail...
Got som friend that 1 clothe way took more cans to have 1 success than the whole set...
And number of field does not matter...
when i beggin to fail a bit to much on 1 item , i prefert to switch with an other of my clothe , and TT the faulty item...
It really looks like a wierd bugg...

and yes , there is also bad server time...but those usual dont choise clothe... you fail a lot for som time , what ever you do...
Best in that time is chek auction for 20 min

 

[billairboy]

Are there anyway to know if you have 100 % succeded in the coloring, besides the visual result? The texturing have a % amount on the cloth, but not the coloring?

 

[Etopia]

Are there anyway to know if you have 100 % succeded in the coloring, besides the visual result? The texturing have a % amount on the cloth, but not the coloring?

No
But that would be very very nice to have same % with the color name.
Wouls solve lots of problem for customer...
Feature we need imho...

 

[billairboy]

No
But that would be very very nice to have same % with the color name.
Wouls solve lots of problem for customer...
Feature we need imho...

Yes, they should include that information. Easier to know how well you manage your coloring. And as you say, a prof to the custumer of the quality of the coloring.

 

[Coelacanth]

It does not seems to be "time" "period" linked...
i had experience on som item allready ... where i did the whole set of the person... but 1 item turned bad colored...
The persone come back some time after with paint for 2 or 3 try... and all fail... come back again and all fail...
Got som friend that 1 clothe way took more cans to have 1 success than the whole set...
And number of field does not matter...
when i beggin to fail a bit to much on 1 item , i prefert to switch with an other of my clothe , and TT the faulty item...
It really looks like a wierd bugg...

That's very interesting, ETOPIA...I wonder if a similar thing happens for certain avatars re: chance to global/uber/HOF? (I'm only half-joking...)

Think about it...when you get a loot-lag (especially when all the other mobs you're looting show no lag, then suddenly you get a loot-lag, and then after that no more loot-lags) I believe it could be the system doing a check on a possibility-to-loot-something-better-than-usual. Mechanically, this is just the same event as when you click the "Color" button and the system does a check to see how well you'll succeed, or if you'll fail. Hmm...

Maybe I need to TT my avatar and start over!

BTW I have a question...do you still get the same skill-gains coloring with a single can as you do with 200 cans?

Thanks for the great info, Sarah & ETOPIA!

 

[Etopia]

BTW I have a question...do you still get the same skill-gains coloring with a single can as you do with 200 cans?

Thanks for the great info, Sarah & ETOPIA!

From personal experiance , evrything in EU work same.
Going over lvl cost way to much , skilling under lvl , is just plain waste.
For exemple , if i craft manel shoes , i will get 1 green line evry 200 click or so , if a total noob craft manel he will get line evry second click..
Also , lvl increase skill gain (and TT cost) ...
But its better to click a lvl 10 item that cost you 10 ped , then a lvl 5 that cost the same ...You will get more skill from a green line.
Same with mobs , paint,texture , and i bet for mining...

 

[Coelacanth]

But its better to click a lvl 10 item that cost you 10 ped , then a lvl 5 that cost the same ...You will get more skill from a green line.
Same with mobs , paint,texture , and i bet for mining...

Hmm if anything, that makes me wonder even MORE if an avatar can be "bugged" just the same as a "cursed piece of clothing"...why do I get way more no-loots and bad loots from bigger mobs than smaller mobs? (I'm not joking now, but I apologize for this going off on a tangent, some things being said are highly intriguing to me.)

Re: Coloring: I don't think I understood your answer. If I do 200 clicks painting a level 1 shirt with 1 can of orange paint on 1 field, do I get the same skill gains as if I did 200 clicks painting a level 1 shirt with 200 cans of orange paint on 2 fields? Thanks!

 

[Etopia]

Hmm if anything, that makes me wonder even MORE if an avatar can be "bugged" just the same as a "cursed piece of clothing"...why do I get way more no-loots and bad loots from bigger mobs than smaller mobs? (I'm not joking now, but I apologize for this going off on a tangent, some things being said are highly intriguing to me.)

Thats really an other discution ...

Re: Coloring: I don't think I understood your answer. If I do 200 clicks painting a level 1 shirt with 1 can of orange paint on 1 field, do I get the same skill gains as if I did 200 clicks painting a level 1 shirt with 200 cans of orange paint on 2 fields? Thanks!

From my test , but maybe other people found something else dunno ... Using 1 , 2 or 3 field dont change anything... the skill chek is done for 1 click ... and it does not seems to give more skill for the click ...

Then for the amount of paint , its seems there is a "best" average to do... you get much more skill with 1 click 200 paint than with 200 click 1 paint , but more skill with 50 paint 4 click...You have to manage the number of paint , and the paint it self... if i put 500 orenge , i will get shit skill anyway... the orange paint are to low lvl for me ...
Thats why , at som point in coloring , it become even more hard to skill up , as there is to paint to skill up ...

 

[Coelacanth]

Thats really an other discution ...

True enough, it just occurred to me that there was a very intriguing parallel.

Then for the amount of paint , its seems there is a "best" average to do... you get much more skill with 1 click 200 paint than with 200 click 1 paint , but more skill with 50 paint 4 click...You have to manage the number of paint , and the paint it self... if i put 500 orenge , i will get shit skill anyway... the orange paint are to low lvl for me ...
Thats why , at som point in coloring , it become even more hard to skill up , as there is to paint to skill up ...

Interesting, I didn't know that! Thanks for the info.

 

[Klirr]

Hi all!
Excellent thread with lots of good info. Thanks!

I have a few questions tho. I'm trying out some coloring (around level 4.5 colorer atm) and trying to unlock green in the cheapest way possible without buying skills... and this thing with how many paint cans to use (using orange paint) per click really bugs me. Some say skill gain is like this; the more TT value per click, the more skills you get. Well maybe it might not make any sense to use 1k paint cans per click overdoing it like that but...

Now according to this, 1 click 200 paint cans should be cheaper than 4 clicks 50 cans because you save decay on tools and also save precious time with fewer clicks, IF the above is correct. This is of course if you do alot of clicks in a row with 200 cans per click vs 50 cans per click. I find it very hard to check these things by myself tho since it seems like i get "streaks" of skill gains using both methods and also there are slowdowns when a certain level is reached too so its very hard to actually test this in a good way. How do you guys do it?

I also heard some ppl talking about you get less skills if your chance of success is too high per click (some kind of learning mode?) making me think that i should use _fewer_ paint cans per click as i progress skillwise but this totally contradicts the more TT per click "rule".

To me it feels like there should be a magic number of paint cans to use to optimize skillgains per click, say so you have around 80% (????) success rate, no matter what skill you are on, since, if you are higher skilled u just use higher TT cans, like violet cream or whatever instead of orange, to compensate for your skill level so to speak, or if you will to up the TT value per click. So rather than changing amount of paint, just change the actual paint. Now markup comes into play i know but if we look past that for a sec i mean.

It feels like i get more skills when i use more paint cans per click but i'm not sure. Kinda lost but sticking to 200 cans orange per click for now...

And who said something about it doesn't matter how many fields you do per click? What about color matching skill? The name of that suggests it does matter but maybe it doesn't. How do you check this for real?
Furthermore, the level of the actual piece of cloth you are coloring, does that matter too? Should i color something else than basic pants? I'm making them, coloring them, texturing them and then TTing them atm so i don't use bleacher at all.

I hope to get some answers here so thanks in advance!

 

[n1x]

...Should i color something else than basic pants? I'm making them, coloring them, texturing them and then TTing them atm so i don't use bleacher at all.

I hope to get some answers here so thanks in advance!

Maybe try Limited Books, you may buy them directly at any Technican, way more comfortable and easier to use and the effects are the same as for the basic pants (you don't have to craft or buy them)

 

[plummer]

Thanks for the great info. +rep

 

[LeeLoo Faith]

the more TT value per click, the more skills you get.

This is true, up to a certain limit. (Which goes up along with your skills)

Now according to this, 1 click 200 paint cans should be cheaper than 4 >>clicks 50 cans because you save decay on tools and also save precious >>time with fewer clicks, IF the above is correct. This is of course if you >>do alot of clicks in a row with 200 cans per click vs 50 cans per click. I >>find it very hard to check these things by myself tho since it seems like >>i get "streaks" of skill gains using both methods and also there are >>slowdowns when a certain level is reached too so its very hard to >>actually test this in a good way. How do you guys do it?

No it is not that hard acutally. If you do say 5 clicks with 50cans and get no skills or just once -> too few cans try more!

If you get 3times skill gains from those 5 clicks you seem to have hit the right amount.

I also heard some ppl talking about you get less skills if your chance of >>success is too high per click (some kind of learning mode?) making me >>think that i should use _fewer_ paint cans per click as i progress >>skillwise but this totally contradicts the more TT per click "rule".

Never heard that and I think it is wrong. Just the SIB on paint helps a bit if you have that.

To me it feels like there should be a magic number of paint cans to use >>to optimize skillgains per click

Yes but it changes all the time while you skill up.

For me optimum to use was approximatly like this:

Paint just unlocked: 50 cans
in the middle between unlock/maxxed: 100 cans
shortly before maxxing: 200 cans

You can still use it after maxxing, just increase amount more and more.
But there will be a point where even 1k cans give you nearly no skills.

And who said something about it doesn't matter how many fields you do >>per click? What about color matching skill?

It doesnt matter at all.

Furthermore, the level of the actual piece of cloth you are coloring, >>does that matter too?

No.

Should i color something else than basic pants? I'm making them, >>coloring them, texturing them and then TTing them atm so i don't use >>bleacher at all.

Waaay to much effort IMho. the decay of the tool/bleacher is sooooo low now, you can skill ages with the one tool/bleacher set before it breaks. That was worth when decay was over 10pec/click but now it is just waste of time...

I use same basic shirt again and again and again ...

 

[Klirr]

Maybe try Limited Books, you may buy them directly at any Technican, way more comfortable and easier to use and the effects are the same as for the basic pants (you don't have to craft or buy them)

OH! I didn't know that. Thanks alot! Gonna try that next time i log on.

Yes but it changes all the time while you skill up.

For me optimum to use was approximatly like this:

Paint just unlocked: 50 cans
in the middle between unlock/maxxed: 100 cans
shortly before maxxing: 200 cans

You can still use it after maxxing, just increase amount more and more.
But there will be a point where even 1k cans give you nearly no skills.

Superb answers to my questions! Thanks a bunch Leeloo! Now i feel much more enlightened. +rep

Btw, i'm making pants also because i want some tailoring skills too and i like the thrill that i maybe will get a hof sooner or later but of course its probably better to just use a bleacher.

 

[Kitten]

Yeah with the new bleacher and color tools its not a big deal to just use them over and over the decay is way low. If your still worry about decay then buy the limited bp books from the technician and tt them after color / texture. And yes you need to slowly raise the tt of the paint your using and keep going to higher level paints. I am sure you don't even want to know how much tt per click Etopia needs to use to skill anymore

Stay away from the old TT coloring tool and bleachers they will bankrupt you.

 

[Klirr]

Yeah with the new bleacher and color tools its not a big deal to just use them over and over the decay is way low. If your still worry about decay then buy the limited bp books from the technician and tt them after color / texture. And yes you need to slowly raise the tt of the paint your using and keep going to higher level paints. I am sure you don't even want to know how much tt per click Etopia needs to use to skill anymore

Stay away from the old TT coloring tool and bleachers they will bankrupt you.

Good info again. Thankyou!

 

[Sarubaboon]

superb answers.....
i suppose the same works for texturing, correct?