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An EU with no TT

@goni: sry if i haven't pointed that out: i'm well aware that supply and demand make the price of products..
i was not pointing that one out because i assume everyone would know that..

the point i wanted to make was: everything has a MARKET VALUE irl!!!!
this MARKET VALUE comes from: cost to produce (as i said) and supply/demand (as you added).

I don´t understand that.

If I am producer of bottles, I have to run around to find company that needs the bottles to buy it. I can´t sell bottles to my local supermarket.

If I am a farmer who got 1000 acres of grainfields, I have to run around and find buyers for my grain. The local supermarket, doesn´t buy grain.

If I am producer of milk, I can´t sell 20k liters milk to my local supermarket directly. I need a company to buy the milk, fill it into bottles or tetrapack, and those company may deliver to the supermarket, but not me the producer.
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you prolly don't understand because you haven't read the quote i was referring to..

again, sry, i didn't mean to take an hour of your time to write a paper about supply/demand.. i'm familiar with it.. sry i wasn't writing in a perfectly understandable way..

So if you like to compare IRL with EU, than we got a base value for the products IRL as well. Base value is the production cost. What you get more than the production cost due to higher prises made from supply and demand is the markup. But as I already explained is, that IRL you can´t get the basevalue everytime whenever you want. It may happen, that there is oversupply. In that case you may sell, below production cost, and make a loss, or you try stockholding your goods and hope that prise will go up again. In the second case you got the problem, that stockholding will cost money, a lot of money. You got high risk IRL with everything you do, as there are is no gurantee that you get back the money you paid for the production.
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this one is interesting..

beacuse: in EU the base-value of an item *doesn't reflect its production cost*! in EU, the base-value is just a rigged number that MA was 'thinking it's cool'.. and that's the main crucial point in the tt-value system imo!

this little difference is what making the EU-economy so distant from RL-economy: 'randomly' rigged values, that don't reflect the cost to obtain or produce an item!

and this was also my point when i was referring to 'production cost' VS 'randomly rigged number' in my writing.. again, sry for skipping the supply/demand part altogether..
(although, if you read again carefully you'll see i stated the principles of supply/demand in one of my posts)

EU got a stable market only because we have the TT.
Many products would have lost any value if there wasn´t the TT.
Think about OA-101 crafters. Who should buy 10k OA-101 every day, from those insane OA-101 ATH-hunters? And its not only one crafter that clicks thousands OA-101 on a daily base, there are a lot of them! Nobody would buy it for that prise TT is offering. And thats the reason why so many many thousand OA-101 go directly into TT, every day!
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a stable market due to 'artificially rigged values'? seems strange to me..

ofc, the OA-101 would sell for nothing if it had no tt-value..

but then again, crafters would just not craft them, and craft things that there is a market for instead. a market is a result of a supply/demand-system and a must have for any economic system.

no market - no economy..

the MA-model of randomly rigged values, that doesn't reflect production costs NOR the supply/demand system, is imo not comperable to ANY real economy for many reasons..
it's one of a kind.. like it or hate it, but don't tell me it's the way an economic system is proven to work..

1000s of OA-101s going straight to tt each day is not a sign for a healthy economy imo.. it's no economy at all.. it's simply the same as changing casino-chips back to cash..
in a healthy economy, products are produced to be sold to consumers.


again, i'm sorry for skipping some points in my previous posts and having made you write that wall of text..

HOF, HOF (ye, HOF HOF is what drives the EU 'economy', and nothing else)
 
Market price = production costs + shipping/storage/distribution costs + demand factor + good old tax :). If demand on the end of the chain is not enough to at least cover the costs, the business sinks.

production costs include market price of raw materials :).. which also include costs of production.
 
Well a real economic system got constant demand on everything, as items break and need to be replaced.

In EU exist uL items, that never break and don´t need resources/components to be reapaired.

Therefor a real economic system isn´t possible in EU, as you allways will come to the point, where the market is fully supplied. After that point, this item becomes worthless, as long there is no new player, who needs 1 of those items (he surely could buy instantly for nearly nothing!).

To install a real economy in EU, some major things must be changed:

1. Remove all repair terminals or introduce the need of items/components to repair items.

2. Convert all existing uL items into L items, so this items will break sooner or later.

3. Make ammo a crafted item

4. Introduce some basic needs, like Food/Drink

5. Let clothes decay, just from wearing. Higher decay if worn in combat.

6. Introduce a mechanism, that ensures that people need housings where they need to rest/sleep.

If all this is done, you may remove TT and got your real economy.

Think about it, if you really like it!
 
exactly.

4.-6. are one and the same: a constant drain on supply (you could use other pictures for it like: everything consumes energy, etc..)

as i said in an earlier post: changing EU to a tt-free game is not on debate!
it's also not a pro/contra thread, and not about if anyone prefers a certain system..

EU is a tt-value system and will always be..

anyway, the EU economy is not the only model that can be used in a game.

i'm still not convinced that the tt-value is needed to make game-economies work ^^ (btw, almost all MMORPGs have a tt-value system, even if it's mostly called 'vendor price')

thx for the discussion,

HOF HOF!! :)
 
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Naifas Anaconda said:
Get real, you guys! People that think it'd be a great idea are only looking at their own belly button as middle-chain players. What will you do with the 3% TT left of your decayed weapons, tools, amps? Huh? What will you do after a manufacturing skilling run on a totally useless item like for example basic filters?? Hmm? And what do u think will happen to the small markups crafters are willing to pay to skill on those bps, using the required lysts and stuff like that? And what would you do when all your peds would be tighed up on items such as tt armor parts (paladin masks, knight thighs and pixie masks..). You'de be forced to deposit or stop playing, right? Oh yeah, certainly it's a dreamy suggestion...
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Well, clearly, if there was no TT, MA would never have coded it so there would be 3% left on your (L) gun when it broke. It would break at TT=0

Along the same lines there would be no "basic filters" that have no onward use.

But I agree it would not really work, After all, look at Real life, We are filling the landfill up with 3% Broken (L) TV's (Videos, washing machines, crisp packets, Mibile-phones, etc!) ..... Soon enough the land will be filled with broken 3% real items, and we will wish there was a real-TT to put it in to return it to the "natural resources pool."
 
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