An in depth analysis of Cornundacauda Mature hunting

[RazorFire]

Background

Several weeks ago I decided to undertake an analysis of how efficient it would be to hunt Cornundacauda Mature North of Fort Argus. I decided to collect detailed statistics on the hunting and present them to the community once I reached the first thousand kills. My plan is to update every thousand kills but due to the nature of the data collection, it takes me a considerable period of time to hunt even a bfew Corn Mature.

Equipment/Location/Mob

Location: The beach north of Fort Argus

Mob: Cornundacauda Mature

Weapons: Sollomate Opalo + A101 Amp, M2100 tt pistol for finishing

Armour: Full Goblin

Fap: Fap-5 (very rarely used. Not used at all in the last 500 kills. Fap decay across the 1000 kills probably amounted to less than 0.50 PED)

Hunt Length: 20 - 30 Cornundacauda Mature. 80% of the time was 20. This will seem extremely low, but later analysis may be shown to justify this

Other Info: the total tt value of every loot was calculated after each kill, in this way at the end of each hunt it was possible to determine the exact amount of ammo spent in the hunt. Additionally, 860 Corn matures were killed pre VU 8.9, 140 post VU

Cost Statistics

Total Cost to kill 1000 Corn Mature: 603.38 PED
Average Cost per Corn: = 0.6034 PED
Average Cost per 20 Mob Hunt: 12.07 PED

Total Ammo Cost: 431.41 PED
Average Ammo Cost Per Mob: 0.4314 PED
Average Ammo Cost Per Hunt: 8.63 PED
Ammo Ratio: 8.33-8.43 PED on main and 0.20-0.30 PED on finisher per hunt

Total Decay Cost: 171.97 PED
Average Decay Cost Per Mob: 0.1720 PED
Average Decay Cost Per Hunt: 3.44 PED
Weapon/Amp:Armour/Fap decay ratio per hunt: Approx. 5:1

Return Statistics

Total TT Value of hunt returns: 1034.91 PED
Average TT Value per Corn Mature: 1.035 PED
Average TT Value per hunt: 20.70 PED

Total Profit/Loss: +431.53 PED
Average Profit/Loss per Mob: +0.43 PED
Average Profit/Loss per hunt: +8.63 PED

Globals: 2 (203.39 PED, 226.52 PED)
Global Value: 429.91 PED

Total Profit/Loss excluding globals: +1.62 PED
Average Profit/Loss per mob: +0.0016 PED
Average Profit/Loss per hunt: +0.032 PED

Looting

No Loots: 503 (50.3%)
Longest Loot Streak: 9
Longest No Loot Streak: 10

Impact of VU 8.9

Average Cost per Corn Pre VU: = 0.6029 PED
Average Cost per Corn Post VU: = 0.6064 PED

Average Ammo Cost Per Mob Pre VU: 0.4307 PED
Average Ammo Cost Per Mob Post VU: 0.4357 PED

Average Decay Cost Per Mob Pre VU: 0.1722 PED
Average Decay Cost Per Mob Post VU: 0.1707 PED

Average TT Value per Corn Mature Pre VU: 1.0636 PED
Average TT Value per Corn Mature Post VU: 0.8587 PED

Average TT Value per Mob excl. Globals pre VU: 0.5650 PED
Average TT Value per Mob excl. Globals post VU: 0.8587 PED

Average Profit/Loss Per Mob pre VU: +0.4607 PED
Average Profit/Loss Per Mob post VU: +0.2523 PED

Average Profit/Loss excl. Globals Per Mob pre VU: -0.0393 PED
Average Profit/Loss excl. Globals Per Mob post VU: +0.2523 PED

No Loots Pre VU: 50.5% (434/860)
No Loots Post VU: 49.3% (69/140)
Longest Loot Streak Pre VU: 7
Longest Loot Streak Post VU: 9
Longest No Loot Streak Pre VU: 10
Longest No Loot Streak Post VU: 7

 

[RazorFire]

Thanks to Doer and Borr I am now able to include some excel graphs showing other aspects of the hunting.

I intend to run further 1000 kill batches using identical setup and seeing how things go, reporting the results in this thread. I expect to make a loss but hopefully it will not be a significant one. Data to date suggests with efficient setup you should at least regularly manage 80-90% on these small 20-30 mob hunts.
It is currently not possible to draw solid conclusions about the post VU data as i haven't collected enough data yet. At the end of the next 1000 kills we should have a much better idea. I have updated the first post to answer Boor's question. Pre VU without the globals a very small loss was made.

In order to obtain the first graph, I took the average percentage return for each of the 10 hunts up to and including the current hunt, starting from the 10th hunt, averaged them and plotted them on this graph. What it shows is that over a 10 hunt period at 20 kills per hunt, the average tt return seems to be steadily in at least the 90% region, with greater returns when minis and globals occur. The lowest 10 hunt average was 67.9, a little above the 65% thats often quoted for average return. The data starts taking into account VU 8.9 results from point 31 onwards.

The next graph shows my overall profit/loss at the end of each hunt. As can be seen, the very first hunt i started counting i achieved a 16 PED and 14 PED loot in 20 Corn Kills. Therefore, in this 1000 batch I never at any point slipped into the red. The main gains can be seen from the hunts with globals, and in between times he general trend would appear to be a very slow decline in funds. Things may have changed since VU 8.9 in this respect as the last few datapoints show a steady increase. This may however just be me in the good part of the loot cycle. This will soon be ascertained as the next 1000 kills begin.

The next graph shows more clearly the cyclical nature of looting. In order to produce the graph the following was performed:

1)All 1000 loots were listed in a column
2)Staring with the 25th loot, the average of the previous 25 loots including the current loot was calculated, and divided by the average cost per kill (0.60 PED) to get a percentage return.
3)Every 5th average return was recorded and plotted on the graph. From these 5th returns a 20 point moving average was produced, giving a more rounded view of whats going on, essentially covering the average of the last 100 loots, every 5 loots.
4)A cutoff of 500% return was included to cover uberloots. If a value is greater than 500% it gets normalised to 500%, otherwise messes up graph scaling

The ups and downs of a loot cycle are clearly displayed here. My worst 25 kill return being about 25% and my best being in excess of 500%

The above data involved the collation of all 1000 loots and categorisation into loot size. These were categorised as follows:

<1: less than the expected average loot of a Corn Mature (0.765 pec, taken as the halfway point between 0.7 and 0.83 pec, the most frequently occurring loot, 5 times the minimum loot band)
1: the expected average loot
2: up to 2 times the expected average loot
4: up to 4 times the expected average loot
etc

the 300 band represents the current likely uberloot ceiling that has been achieved so far. The minimum uberloot value may be 250 times the expected value, but i need a lot more data.

Since I have had no loots in the 50-100 PED bracket yet, there is no category for this currently. The approximate bracket for these will be 65-150 times the average loot. There is no evidence yet of loots occurring between 35 times and 65 times the average expected loot.

The cumulative frequency results for these data were plotted, and between the two it gives an initial idea of the likelihood of how much you will receive in any given nonloot.

 

[AkiranBlade]

Thank you for posting your results, however, whenever I hit Corns these days;

a) They rip me to pieces, despite having unlocked and gained 3k Avoidance.
b) I never get good returns, it's always a loss.

This is a very subjective piece of research. You would need to do this again and again and again, to get a good spectrum of data.

Again, thanks for posting an in depth report

 

[Doer]

Impact of VU 8.9
Average TT Value per Corn Mature Pre VU: 1.0636 PED
Average TT Value per Corn Mature Post VU: 0.8587 PED

Well that bit is not unexpected. There's the change in "typical" return (the extra 20 pecs/mob needed to make the average return the same went into the new noober mob uberhofs). I notice that you still pulled in a staggering profit on this hunt. It will be interesting to see if you can maintain that over the next series.

Thanks for the work and sharing the data!

 

[Borr]

Hi Razor, nice work. I know you have been working on this for quite some time!
I PM-ed you how to get your excel graphs in here.


If I read your results correctly you had your two (nice) globals pre-VU. Do you have the average TT return per corn excluding the globals for pre- and post-vu as well?

Average TT Value per Corn Mature Pre VU: 1.0636 PED
Average TT Value per Corn Mature Post VU: 0.8587 PED

Because without the globals I think there will hardly be a difference pre- and post-VU.

 

[Borr]

Hmm, those are some interesting graphs! Especially the first one...

You've got a nice period of good returns in there!

 

[Jacxz]

thx for sharing, i feel this apply much after hunting corns for 2months straight a year ago. will be interesting to see how the loot will change as you update your stats.

think i might be back at them after this Feff event

 

[Grounder]

Hello,

I must agree with AkiranBlade here - your stat's are just that your stat's and do not show another ava anything that would apply to them.

Please don't get the wrong idea - I applaud the time and effort you have put into this test but we can only take it as a very rough guide.

For example - your maximum no loot streak in this test is 10. I have personaly experience no loot streaks in the same area, hunting the same mobs in excess of 20. Once I even had 32 no loots in a row there.

Other stats you show are similar to my own experience. e.g.
- approximate .5 Ped to kill one Mat Corn
- average loot (of those that do loot) in the low 70 pec range

As a side note I too use opallo/a101/Goblin (no FAP required) and still our stats are different.

Another point to consider is that each VU (even mini's) and you must start your experiment over again as the baseline has been altered.

Still +rep for a valiant effort.

Grounder

 

[JohnCapital]

Thank you for posting your results, however, whenever I hit Corns these days;

a) They rip me to pieces, despite having unlocked and gained 3k Avoidance.
b) I never get good returns, it's always a loss.

Perhaps you didn't notice he was talking about the beach by Fort Argus, not the one on TI. Your Goblin/Opalo setup might work better up there.




Yes I'm kidding, AB.

 

[steffel]

nice post, +rep for the work.

also,maybe add goblin/kobold/103/bigwig/nemesis ratio

 

[RazorFire]

lol not counted the goblin, but theres been quite a bit. Had 2 kobold items; gloves an mask, and a lot of bigwig boards, maybe 40+ but didnt count. No 103 or neme yet

Thanks for all the comments I'm planning to start my next run of 1000 soon but I'm still analyzing the current data and hoping to present another couple of graphs in the next day or two.

 

[jane]

Thank you for posting your results, however, whenever I hit Corns these days;

a) They rip me to pieces, despite having unlocked and gained 3k Avoidance.
b) I never get good returns, it's always a loss.

This is a very subjective piece of research. You would need to do this again and again and again, to get a good spectrum of data.

Again, thanks for posting an in depth report

=)
- don't forget he only hunted/counted the matures
- plus: he was so free to share his figures

Razorfire, this either was a result of my previous post about "unverified numbers" or not, but dude I want to join the graph hunting!!

 

[AkiranBlade]

=)
- don't forget he only hunted/counted the matures
- plus: he was so free to share his figures

Razorfire, this either was a result of my previous post about "unverified numbers" or not, but dude I want to join the graph hunting!!

I was also talking about the ones at Argus beach. Argus was my home for so long, I go back there sometimes to reminisce while testing new n00bie weapons for the good of the people.

Somehow, I feel like the people of Argus are my children....

OK, I wake up now :/


In all seriousness, yes the ones on Argus beach do in fact rip me to piece. Considering my Defence skills and my Agility level, this perplexes me somewhat!

Also, 1000PED turnover is definately not a definitive way to see your results, however, 3 or 4 1000PED runs, is

Good luck Razor

 

[Commodore]

I'm too quite fustrated by mob hit frequency/power. Although I've not unlocked avoidence (due to low dodge) my evade used to allow me to take atrox to adult, argnaught to guardian, corn to dominant with no armour and using a Det. This was a few Vu's ago, recently it's been very obvious that the effect of evade has erroded for me. Hell I think its a requirement to chip skills as well as playing to gain skills, just to keep up with the nerfing.

 

[Doer]

I'm too quite fustrated by mob hit frequency/power. Although I've not unlocked avoidence (due to low dodge) .

Just to avoid confusing others, i want to point out that dodge is not required for avoidance. Sorry to go off topic but i like to nip these misunderstandings in the bud: Avoidance requires evade or dodge, not both. More info.

Now back to the show.

 

[jcfuller]

I'm not sure if this is relevant or not but last time I checked not all Corn Matures are really Matures: Stamina 18. Some are really Youngs Stamina: 15; MA just renamed the Youngs when they stopped the Axe 1x0 drops.

James

 

[Borr]

I'm not sure if this is relevant or not but last time I checked not all Corn Matures are really Matures: Stamina 18. Some are really Youngs Stamina: 15; MA just renamed the Youngs when they stopped the Axe 1x0 drops.

Interesting. There must also be some Olds in between pretending to be some years younger (while hitting you according to their real age)

 

[Huskie]

No, old are olds. Only youngs have been renamed to mature. And matures are still the same, as well.

 

[Commodore]

Just to avoid confusing others, i want to point out that dodge is not required for avoidance. Sorry to go off topic but i like to nip these misunderstandings in the bud: Avoidance requires evade or dodge, not both. More info.

Now back to the show.

Ahh thx, wondering why it was taking a while, evade over 4k, not long to go.

 

[Konve]

Other Info: the total tt value of every loot was calculated after each kill, in this way at the end of each hunt it was possible to determine the exact amount of ammo spent in the hunt.

This can also be done by checking the decay of your amp (to see how many shots were fire, and thereby see how much ammo the gun would have used). The M2100 does complicate it, though. Still I don't think you need a finisher when your main weapon only does 11 dmg and then mob has above 100 HP.
(You could use a TT powerfist to finish with as well, and they don't use ammo.)

Ahh thx, wondering why it was taking a while, evade over 4k, not long to go.

Check your pro. standing. Should be 25.

 

[Commodore]

It's ok Konve, I read Doer's linked thread on Defense skills. I've got a healthy green bar racing towards 25

 

[Tamn]

Exellent!!!
I love all the info you included, especially the graph.
Its great!!
+rep

 

[RazorFire]

Thanks for the comments and encouragement Its taken a while to produce the next graph, which i have included in the second post. This new post very clearly demonstrates the cyclical nature of loots for any person/mob.

The final graph I hope to produce shortly will be a pie or column chart showing the distribution of loot sizes across the 1000 kills.

Once this is done, I intend to take up my breer M2a(L) and A102 amp, backed up by an unamped opalo as finisher, and kill another 1000 corn matures. This time I will probably go for longer hunts, maybe 40 or 50 kills per hunt. At the end of the 1000 if the results are worse I may switch to 20 again. I am hoping the maxed breer/opalo combination will bring my cost/corn below 60 pec, as that is what the weapon tools suggest. However, when lag misses are taken into consideration, it will be interesting to compare the true efficiencies of the 2 maxed weapons

 

[RazorFire]

Added the final set of results from the initial thousand runs. These relate to frequency of loot sizes and break the loots down into different categories. It gives a betterfeel for what sizes of loot to expect and how often. Will be interesting to see if things have changed significantly with the arrival of VU 8.9 once i have completed the next thousand kills.

The next 1000 is in the early stages of being underway. I have adjusted my setup to have a main weapon as a breer M2a(L) +A102 as it is now maxed with an unamped opalo as finisher. After 2 hunts and 40 kills I have enjoyed an increased efficiency in hunting. The new setup still with full goblin is achieving a cost of approximately 56 pec per corn mature killed, with only about a 0.6 pec armour decay per mob achieved. My new results will be described relative to this new cost value, which will undoubtedly change a little before the 1000 kills are finished. Currently after 2 hunts I have enjoyed a 99.2% hunt efficiency, which wouldve been less against the old cost per corn value, at around 92.7%. Nonetheless an encouraging start

 

[Doer]

Cool beans.

One suggestion: pixie+1A plates. You'll get one point more protection and slightly less decay. Maybe for the next round...

 

[RazorFire]

After a break from data collection to play with my various new hunting toys I have decided to continue the data collection but with a twist. I will go to argus beach and kill 10 batches of 100 corns with my IMK2, using breer+a102, and opalo/a101 as finishers, unarmoured and fapless.

My prediction based on an HA of 4.7, CH of 6.9, and min dmg of 36.4% with the IMK2 is that the cost to kill will have incresed to somewhere in the region of 62-68 pecs per mob. Although this is less economical, i should finish a set of 1000 many times faster than previously. Following that, I will put on my sights and scope and do another 1000 and compare killcosts as well as the looting information.

I did a preliminary test this morning without counting and found i should get through the thousand kills fairly quickly. Most of them die before they reach me

 

[RazorFire]

Data collection has started for the new set of ten 100 kill runs. Here are preliminary results of the first two 100 kill hunts.

Data to date:

Equipment used:
IMK2 - Main weapon
Breer M2a(L), Sollomate Opalo - Finishers
Armour - None
FAP - None
Attachments - None

Hunts: 7
Corn Matures Killed: 700
Total Ammo Cost: 408.24
Total Weapon Decay Cost: 8.88

Average Cost Per Mob: 59.59 pec.

Total Loot: 339.99 PED
Average Noloots: 52.4%

Average Return Per Mob: 48.57 pec.
Average Percentage Return: 81.5%

Hunt 1 Return: 53.1%
Hunt 1 Noloots: 59.0%

Hunt 2 Return: 123.8%
Hunt 2 Noloots: 46.0%

Hunt 3 Return: 78.7%
Hunt 3 Noloots: 55.0%

Hunt 4 Return: 46.9%
Hunt 4 Noloots: 51.0%

Hunt 5 Return: 70.5%
Hunt 5 Noloots: 47.0%

Hunt 6 Return: 87.6%
Hunt 6 Noloots: 51.0%

Hunt 7 Return: 110.9%
Hunt 7 Noloots: 58.0%

Total Profit/(Loss): (77.13 PED)

The use of the IMK2 at 4.7 HA and 36.4% min damage (now 4.8 and 36.7) I felt would cause a notable increase in cost to kill compared to opalo+A101 data shown previously. However, in spite of one kill involving 6 missed shots, overall the cost has stayed around 59-60 pec per kill across the seven hunts (57.39-61.55), far better than expected. This clearly indicates how quickly a high eco non SIB weapon can become the equal and then better of a maxed SIB L weapon, even with relatively low HA and dmg%

 

[mczimi]

Nice test. I have a question u use imp MKII?
and i wait the final result (i see hard work there).

 

[RazorFire]

Yeah I'm using the Imp MkII to see how the economy compares to my old tests using amped opalo/breer etc. I hope to do another 100-200 kill hunts today and have the 1000 finished within a week

 

[RazorFire]

The post 3 posts above this one has been updated to reflect 7 hunts completed using this setup. The economy of the IMK2 is already far better than I ever expected. Loots are generally down since the loot distribution change: most mobs seem to loot about HP/6, with 1-2 in 100 looting 15-25 ped and a similar number looting 4-8 PED, generally taking the loot back to about 70-80% for 100 kill run with only a single larger loot, and 100% plus if there are two.