Question: Are you paying too much for CLDS? Suggestions / Discussion

[Samuel Robet]

I have noticed something the last few days. Many traders are buying clds on auction then selling them immediately on the forums and auction.

Traders with Huge bank rolls are buying up the 5 stacks+, (and even bidding up on the smaller stacks).

What does this mean to us cld holders? This causes the cld price to go up! But is that bad or good?

.. I for one think its bad... I think this time is a good opportunity for people to buy more clds, but it doesn't help that people who just want 1 or 2, or 3 are being forced to pay 1230+ for a cld. When they could buy them for cheaper if they only had more peds for the big stacks...

So here is my suggestions for those that are buying from traders on this very form for 1230+.

1) Pool together your peds with friends, and bid on a stack together. You will be able to outbid those traders and get a better price

2) Don't buy from the traders!! You are literally causing the price of clds to go up and up. If you buy for 1235 on the forums, that trader can buy for 1230 tomorrow and still turn 5 peds. That is exactly what they will do, which causes the price of the cld to go up so fast. Lets enjoy the low cld price

3) Talk to some other players who are buying clds, but not trading them for a quick profit. Maybe you can make a deal with them, like you can pay 1225 for each one from them, and they could use the peds to buy a bigger stack next time, and split it with you. Kinda like using a cld as collateral.. Some honor system would be there like suggestion 1, but at least this one involves collateral.


Anyways just a thought ... what do you guys think? I have been asking in my society if anyone wants to pool peds together, but they are not really into the whole cld thing. Has anyone else tried this with their friends / society?

Do you think that immediate inflation of the cld is good?

Is anyone purposely avoiding traders in order to get clds later at a lower price?

All comments welcomed, even if you think I suck and hate my opinion

 

[Harmony.]

Nice idea, but in the end when i have enough peds for one, i don't want to spend a lot of time searching for one.
So i look at auction and get one with the lowest buyout.

 

[Mikass]

I think these traders will get burned very soon. Just stick around for MA's announcement.

Overdrive is selling at a rate of 140clds/day. This means he will keep on selling throughout the month of January and February, which will push prices lower and there will be plenty of interesting news from MA in the meantime. Best buying opportunity is yet to come.

 

[Divinity]

I think these traders will get burned very soon. Just stick around for MA's announcement.

Overdrive is selling at a rate of 140clds/day. This means he will keep on selling throughout the month of January and February, which will push prices lower and there will be plenty of interesting news from MA in the meantime. Best buying opportunity is yet to come.

That is assuming MA comes up with something which pays better then CLD's @1200 peds but one should also look at the other side of that coin.

If that does not happen then

a. More buyers will plunge into the remaining CLD market.
b. The seller can stop selling as the MA sale was what he was planning to invest in.

The way i see it both scenario's are quite possible.

Regards,

Divinity

 

[Samuel Robet]

I think these traders will get burned very soon. Just stick around for MA's announcement.

Overdrive is selling at a rate of 140clds/day. This means he will keep on selling throughout the month of January and February, which will push prices lower and there will be plenty of interesting news from MA in the meantime. Best buying opportunity is yet to come.

well.. do we want traders to be burned? Just some devil advocate here.. I most certainly don't.

Traders are very much essential for our economy. But they serve more like pawn shop owners in eu. They just trade / sell small for the most part. Its hard to sell that old gold ring without a pawn shop though

There are def some good opportunities to buy big .. i am just making suggestions that if people want to get a good price perhaps they can figure out a way to buy big without using that trader medium. I think we need all the help we can get to keep that cld price stay down, and inflation will take over as soon as overdrive's deeds are sold out. Just suxs its happening during the sale as well.

I also think that the deed price will not go down, but could be wrong. 5,000 is not a lot of deeds... I wanted +15 more... only need 333 avatars with the same goals as me to keep that deed price at 1220+ during this overdrive sale. Im sure there are more then 333 avatars with a similar goal or higher goal.

 

[Mikass]

5,000 is not a lot of deeds

It's enough to warrant a one month and a half of sales at 140CLDs/day. Also, Overdrive won't be the only one selling. I suspect quite a few will want want to embrace new opportunities on top of the regular sellers.

Say other deeds come in the market between now and February, maybe a new kind of deed. Don't you think that can push prices lower?! There's only so much CLDs people can buy you know.

Even if there won't be some new type of deed coming, many will gather and poll money to bid in this upcoming sale, but for that cash will need to be raised(some by selling CLDs). Out with the old and boring and in with the new as they say. Medusa investment group paved the way for that last year and I bet quite a few will follow their example.

 

[Mikass]

That is assuming MA comes up with something which pays better then CLD's @1200 peds but one should also look at the other side of that coin.

If that does not happen then

a. More buyers will plunge into the remaining CLD market.
b. The seller can stop selling as the MA sale was what he was planning to invest in.

The way i see it both scenario's are quite possible.

Regards,

Divinity

I think we can expect MA to wanna make few headlines so in order to achieve that and to raise lots of cash, the offering will have to be attractive.

Point b. is invalid because between now and Jan 30 MA will release more info on the sale and on Jan 30, the official announcement will be made. At the rate at which Overdrive is selling(140/day), he will keep on selling through the month of February, after MA's announcement.

 

[Vedder]

...
Traders are very much essential for our economy. But they serve more like pawn shop owners in eu. They just trade / sell small for the most part. Its hard to sell that old gold ring without a pawn shop though
...

Hmm.. I don't agree with that first part, about traders being essential for our economy.

They are convenient yes. But essential no.
And the traders who doesn't even play, just make money, they take out a lot of peds from the system, making the cost for the rest of us higher. I don't see any benefit in that for us, except as I said some convenience.

 

[mastermesh]

yep... the markup a little high is annoying, but at the same time, rate of payback, in theory, will make up for it eventually. It might take another year or two, but if you are long term investor that plans to hold on to the cld for 20+ years, that should not matter much?

I still think MA ought to limit the clds to one stack being able to be sold at a time. That would massively slow down those wanting to resell, and would slow down buyers bidding too much per cld on accident, etc.

 

[Uvas]

This inflated price you speak of is actually a lower price than the open market price.

Before this big sale, prices were holding steady at slightly above 1300 a deed.

 

[Luckycharm]

Well even if you do manage to find others willing to do a big-stack-buy together with you it may still be hard.

The resellers will still overbid you on the big stacks and if you refuse to overbid all of them they will put them back up for more every single day.

I know coz I've placed bids on big stacks as well trying to obtain some. And finally managed today for the first time actually. Probably also because one of the major ones accidentally bid 12k on a single deed that it was finally possible.

Would be great if it works in a few days though but as long as it's profitable for those guys they will keep doing it. You cannot stop the ppl buying from them.

We are talking like 9 ped profit only even sometimes for 2 deeds after the fee each time, whereas when those guys wouldn't be around you could probably obtain them @1200 and not at @1230+.

 

[Mikass]

Well even if you do manage to find others willing to do a big-stack-buy together with you it may still be hard.

The resellers will still overbid you on the big stacks and if you refuse to overbid all of them they will put them back up for more every single day.

I know coz I've placed bids on big stacks as well trying to obtain some. And finally managed today for the first time actually. Probably also because one of the major ones accidentally bid 12k on a single deed that it was finally possible.

Would be great if it works in a few days though but as long as it's profitable for those guys they will keep doing it. You cannot stop the ppl buying from them.

We are talking like 9 ped profit only even sometimes for 2 deeds after the fee each time, whereas when those guys wouldn't be around you could probably obtain them @1200 and not at @1230+.

It still means that there have to be willing buyers out there, buying daily for sustained periods of time. Between now and February, Overdrive won't be only one selling and by looks of things he's been having some competition for 2 days now. Someone else is putting larger amounts at 1200 SB and no buyout.

Also worth noting, Merry Mayhem prize goodies will hit the market this month. There's a big juicy collection of unique and rare DNA, uber unL guns and faps, mayhem armor and even few CLDs to tempt both resellers and regular players. Oh and did I mention Medusa shares are up for sale?

Resellers may get them cheaper, but they must have someone to pass them to, otherwise they'll be stuck with 'em and no more cash to buy more, to rinse and repeat the process.

 

[Vlooe]

If you are impatient then buy at 1230+, its your choice.

But if you are patient you can get them below 1220.
I got some for 1218 on sunday and some for 1211 today.

I am sure i can get some more for such a low price.

 

[ermik]

Someone asked for our thoughts, my thoughts are that 1200 is too high.

but hey, thats me.

When MA announce a new "Medusa" style LA, with a deed system making purchase easy,secure and nothing like the Medusa Investment group trust thingie ( nothing against em, havent tried it ) CLD´s will have competition.

Then RT releases their revenue stream sharing model.... i mean ppl dont have UL ped cards.

Risk versus reward ladies and gentlemen, risk versus reward.

1200 per deed is too high.

 

[Vedder]

...
1200 per deed is too high.

Disagree.
25% annual return is extremely high, compared to RL investments. Even the risky ones.

 

[Mikass]

Disagree.
25% annual return is extremely high, compared to RL investments. Even the risky ones.

He means it's too high given the circumstances, meaning similar investments around the corner, ready to flood the market at any point in near future.

That annual return doesn't account for any stock depreciation. That's only the dividend payment but you can lose a lot on stock depreciation, much more than you can make in dividends. Also, the average % has been going down. Dividend is slowly moving down. I agree return is high % wise but there are many factors that can drag price down.

Also, in Entropia you're not taking only the CLD risk but also the 3d party risk of Entropia as platform and its survival as such. In RL brokerage accounts are insured by either state or private insurance companies. Not the case here.

 

[ermik]

Disagree.
25% annual return is extremely high, compared to RL investments. Even the risky ones.

When you invest in something IRL, you often get your investment backed up to some extent by Laws, agreements, etc. When you buy a CLD, you enable a virtual stream of revenue to be added to your avatars ped card. You dont own anything. The risk involved in CLD makes irl stock options look like index funds when it comes to comparing risk.

Now people could claim that same goes for all items in Entropia and while that is correct, i know plenty of people who invested far more in CLD than they ever would have dared to invest in other Entropia items if CLD wouldnt have existed.

 

[Samuel Robet]

When you invest in something IRL, you often get your investment backed up to some extent by Laws, agreements, etc. When you buy a CLD, you enable a virtual stream of revenue to be added to your avatars ped card. You dont own anything. The risk involved in CLD makes irl stock options look like index funds when it comes to comparing risk.

Now people could claim that same goes for all items in Entropia and while that is correct, i know plenty of people who invested far more in CLD than they ever would have dared to invest in other Entropia items if CLD wouldnt have existed.

yah i def got to agree with ermik.

Its a huge risk. A risk I am willing to roll the dice on. I have recieved over 24% of my initial investment already... so far so good. But there is not much I can do if mindark goes belly up.

Oh and the largest thing i ever owned in EU was an adj fap for 27k ped.

I own over triple that in clds... so the man has a point

 

[Farmer Smurf]

I went from non depositing, to buying a CLD every month. Now have more "invested" in this game, than I have in my savings account. Indeed the man has a point.

 

[Vedder]

I think we all agree that CLDs are high risk.

...
That annual return doesn't account for any stock depreciation. That's only the dividend payment but you can lose a lot on stock depreciation, much more than you can make in dividends. Also, the average % has been going down. Dividend is slowly moving down. I agree return is high % wise but there are many factors that can drag price down.

Also, in Entropia you're not taking only the CLD risk but also the 3d party risk of Entropia as platform and its survival as such. In RL brokerage accounts are insured by either state or private insurance companies. Not the case here.

True, but stock lose value too very often.
I'm not saying CLDs is low-risk. Far from that.

But compare with the type of RL stock that will give you same % revenue, and the risk IRL is extreme too. Often it's start-up tech companies, and those usually have far higher risk that CLDs. (Imo)

When you invest in something IRL, you often get your investment backed up to some extent by Laws, agreements, etc. When you buy a CLD, you enable a virtual stream of revenue to be added to your avatars ped card. You dont own anything. The risk involved in CLD makes irl stock options look like index funds when it comes to comparing risk.

Now people could claim that same goes for all items in Entropia and while that is correct, i know plenty of people who invested far more in CLD than they ever would have dared to invest in other Entropia items if CLD wouldnt have existed.

Yeah, CLDs are high risk, and maybe people invest too much blindly, without think about that.

And I agree that protective laws and agreements exists IRL... But they don't help you, if the company goes belly-up. Nor would they if MA does.

It's all just about risk and ROI in the end.
And it doesn't change the fact that 25% annual ROI is very high.

yah i def got to agree with ermik.

Its a huge risk. A risk I am willing to roll the dice on. I have recieved over 24% of my initial investment already... so far so good. But there is not much I can do if mindark goes belly up.

Oh and the largest thing i ever owned in EU was an adj fap for 27k ped.

I own over triple that in clds... so the man has a point

Yup... You take a great risk, to get a high profit. If you can't afford to lose it all, you should spread your investments, to things outside EU. Just like putting all your savings in a new bio-tech company would be a bad idea, if you can't afford to lose your money.

I went from non depositing, to buying a CLD every month. Now have more "invested" in this game, than I have in my savings account. Indeed the man has a point.

Ouch... Sure you wanna do that?
Same reply as to Samuel applies to you.

 

[Profit]

only need 333 avatars with the same goals as me to keep that deed price at 1220+ during this overdrive sale.

There's 333 avatars? lol.

 

[Farmer Smurf]

Ouch... Sure you wanna do that?
Same reply as to Samuel applies to you.

Before doing, that a $100 deposit, would cycle away to nothing before the next month. now at least I feel I have something to show for my deposits, and can play on the returns.

of course I now make more frequent deposits...but yeah I am sure I want to do that. I understand its a game and I could lose it...or I could eventually acquire enough CLD's, to be able to afford to play this game

That seems funny, but I seem to get a lot more play out of a steady weekly payout than I did from random deposits. Perhaps in part because I have a goal of acquiring more clds.

 

[Konve]

Simple fact is that CLDs are dirt cheap compared to any real investment.

Then you have to factor in the whole "this is a game"-thing.

Too expensive? Not in my opinion.


Right now the prices are low because Overdrive is flooding the market. Just as you accuse traders of trying to keep the price high, you say you're buying and want to buy cheaper then you can atm. Any CLD owner will disagree with you that the price is too high. They'd rather see it go even higher of course. (I don't see how it's any worse to own CLDs and trying to sell them for a lot, that wanting to buy CLDs and wanting to pay as little as possible for them.) So really, all you get from a thread like this are highly biased opinions.

 

[Samuel Robet]

I think these traders will get burned very soon. Just stick around for MA's announcement.

Overdrive is selling at a rate of 140clds/day. This means he will keep on selling throughout the month of January and February, which will push prices lower and there will be plenty of interesting news from MA in the meantime. Best buying opportunity is yet to come.

looks like you were def right.. 1215 per cld is the price you can get from the traders... I almost won a small stack for 1210 per cld today...

Ill just be patient and try to get it at 1210 this week Must be hard moving all those clds as a trader, since its a lot of ped tied up.

@ vedder ..

yah I know the risks.. and I am ok with it. I never put a dollar in this game I can't afford to loose. Ive spent a lot more then 10 grand in the last 3 years chasing women then playing eu anways lol. Least eu has something other then memories and pregnancy scares.

 

[Profit]

Saw advertisers in Twin yesterday... 1205 and 1210.
The EU market place is funny, I often wonder if this is a direct result of having a marketplace full of resellers?
I don't care, I just wonder.

 

[Mikass]

Saw advertisers in Twin yesterday... 1205 and 1210.
The EU market place is funny, I often wonder if this is a direct result of having a marketplace full of resellers?
I don't care, I just wonder.

1200 will be an interesting threshold and resistance point. However, after the big announcement or after new info between now and jan30, many will be tempted to sell asap before others do. The 1200 threshold could be pushed considerably lower, as players start to undercut Overdrive in an attempt to defect first. When the market`s crashing, he who defects first defects best, as saying goes. Even Overdrive will be forced to sell for less if he wants to raise the cash he talked about.

I really think Overdrive is more afraid of a price crash following MA's announcement than being interested in alternative investment or perhaps a combination of both(looking to exit while ahead *as he bought at 1000/cld + trying to get a slice of a fresh new investment).

 

[ermik]

1200 will be an interesting threshold and resistance point. However, after the big announcement or after new info between now and jan30, many will be tempted to sell asap before others do. The 1200 threshold could be pushed considerably lower, as players start to undercut Overdrive in an attempt to defect first. When the market`s crashing, he who defects first defects best, as saying goes. Even Overdrive will be forced to sell for less if he wants to raise the cash he talked about.

I really think Overdrive is more afraid of a price crash following MA's announcement than being interested in alternative investment or perhaps a combination of both(looking to exit while ahead *as he bought at 1000/cld + trying to get a slice of a fresh new investment).

but some guy in twin said cld will never go below 1300 ped, it cant be true!

 

[Samuel Robet]

but some guy in twin said cld will never go below 1300 ped, it cant be true!

yah i won some for 1210 yesterday. Def a nice price as it goes down . I must admit i was worried they would not go below 1200.

I personally don't care if they go down at all... Im not selling the ones I bought nor do I plan too in the immediate future. I am "certain" they will go back up eventually as they have in the past. Plus my "average price" I have paid for them is quite low as I have bought them for as cheap as 1k and as expensive as 1315 in the last year and some change.

Ill save my peds for the last ones i can afford before I have nothign left to sell to buy clds lol.

 

[ermik]

yah i won some for 1210 yesterday. Def a nice price as it goes down . I must admit i was worried they would not go below 1200.

I personally don't care if they go down at all... Im not selling the ones I bought nor do I plan too in the immediate future. I am "certain" they will go back up eventually as they have in the past. Plus my "average price" I have paid for them is quite low as I have bought them for as cheap as 1k and as expensive as 1315 in the last year and some change.

Ill save my peds for the last ones i can afford before I have nothign left to sell to buy clds lol.

my issues with cld ( besides the obvious risks ) is that if i buy enough cld to actually generate some decent profit it would take 1 full year to recover if cld went from 1300 to 1000. , its not worth making me less able to play by tieing up funds that i could use for gameplay.

 

[Samuel Robet]

my issues with cld ( besides the obvious risks ) is that if i buy enough cld to actually generate some decent profit it would take 1 full year to recover if cld went from 1300 to 1000. , its not worth making me less able to play by tieing up funds that i could use for gameplay.

yah i hear u ...

Im taking a 3 year break for school ... I dont plan on "playing" so for a hibernating bastard like me it makes sense. Its either that or I would have withdrawn my character and most likely not return. Heck least this way i still keep my peds in the game, and Mindark doesnt have to pay me a couple thousand dollars... im sure that would hurt the ingame economy more