FYI: Avatar Regeneration

[jdegre]

Nice graph jdegre. That's all very nicely linear - did you remove a few spurious points from the old data (there were a few data points where increasing HP seemed to decrease regen time)?

EDIT: ah no sorry, that is New data, and Old 5% data. Maybe stick on the original data from the thread too?

yes, it is data from this post:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/1454015-post196.html
including only the entries tagged with "recent figure", in red. i only removed oleg's data because there was another entry from John Teacher with similar HP, they differed in 20 secs, and one of them fitted perfectly while the other was totally out, so i assumed that it was the 20-sec difference after the HP bar is apparently full, but it is not.

the old 5% regen rate, i only added it for comparison.

 

[Oleg]

yes, it is data from this post:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/1454015-post196.html
including only the entries tagged with "recent figure", in red. i only removed oleg's data because there was another entry from John Teacher with similar HP, they differed in 20 secs, and one of them fitted perfectly while the other was totally out, so i assumed that it was the 20-sec difference after the HP bar is apparently full, but it is not.

the old 5% regen rate, i only added it for comparison.

I noticed that difference between my new figure and John's. He did his test directly after mine in the same location (Fort Argus) so I think that helps to remove any suspicion that lag or server conditions are the cause of the difference. I don't think anyone suggested that anyway, but it's good to know.

 

[JohnCapital]

i only removed oleg's data because there was another entry from John Teacher with similar HP, they differed in 20 secs, and one of them fitted perfectly while the other was totally out, so i assumed that it was the 20-sec difference after the HP bar is apparently full, but it is not.

I noticed that difference between my new figure and John's. He did his test directly after mine in the same location (Fort Argus) so I think that helps to remove any suspicion that lag or server conditions are the cause of the difference. I don't think anyone suggested that anyway, but it's good to know.

A point of clarification: When I did my regen test the 564 included an extra 20 seconds, due to incomplete healing.

As many have said, even when the bar seems complete, a fap can occur. When I did my test, when it looked to be full, I fapped, proving I was not 100%

Since this was the case, I added an extra 20 seconds to my time to compensate. My actual time was 544, but not fully healed.

When Oleg did his, I was also tracking him, since I had his bar in the team setting. His time and mine were essentially equal, and we verified our health was the same.

My apologies for not mentioning this. I forgot when I posted my time.

 

[jdegre]

Tested at the same time as JC, I'm now 9:07 = 547 seconds at approx 134.9 HP.

That's from whiteout to a visibly full bar, which is exactly how I timed it before. On this occasion I did need a little top-up after the bar looked full, so the actual figure should be a little higher.

A point of clarification: When I did my regen test the 564 included an extra 20 seconds, due to incomplete healing.

yeah, that's how i interpreted oleg's original post too (quoted here). that's why i removed his entry, because it was quite clear that it was exactly 20 secs off, due to what you have explained.

 

[Henceforth]

b'cause MA does not take money from the loot pool directly. May seem bogus to many people, but I surely believe they don't. It's much more easier to take decay money from MA's point of view.

Ok so if MA takes all the decay from the armors, tools and weapons, what happens to the melee decay? The ammo shot will go to the lootpool, but the melee is only decay. So melee users will not contribute to the lootpool but will loot from the lootpool regarding the cost for the damage they do.

 

[Xen]

i've made a plot of the ava HP versus the heal rate (HP/sec.), and the new measures collected by mega are almost perfectly aligned, so that must mean something, eh?

it would be good to get more new measures and see if they fit into this line.
(i have not plotted the old measures, since i think they were much more inaccurate than the new ones).

So, is it still a set % every 20 sec? And if so, is it possible to calculate the new %?

 

[CozMoDan]

Seems to be the case that now yes, they regenerate at the same rate (so the 300 hp guy takes 3 times as long to fully heal after revive).

Admittedly we didn't have a huge range of HPs (something like 125 to 156) so we couldn't check it accurately, but it did seem pretty conclusive that the more hp you had the longer it took to fully regenerate.

Tbh I don't think it makes a huge amount of difference - we regenerate too slowly for it to make much difference in a fight, and I doubt many non-noob people wait for the health to regenerate naturally all that often.

Anyway, probably would be good to get another confirmation of it just in case, if anyone else does a beacon after they've read this. (or in the case of two avatars with significantly different health, just time it manually from revive)

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy I am not sure if any one else caught this, I am too tired to read all the posts, if they did please excuse me.


100 at 5% (5% = 5 heal) takes 20 units of time to heal to 100, 5 X 20 = 100

300 at 5% (5% = 15 heal)takes 20 units of time to heal to 300, 15 X 20 = 300

So it takes the same time for both to heal. If it is not a percent X time anymore then all bets are off. I do remember reading the 5% in a certain time as the heal rate and I think it is on the EU site.
Anyway I hope they haven't nerfed the heal thing.

 

[Henceforth]

I did see a difference in the regen, but it was not synced while after a few regenerations it cached up. I had at the time 150 HP and a friend 120, it seemed he regenerated quicker but after 2 regens I got a bigger one so we where even again.

me:
1-1-1-2-1-1-2-1-1-1-2
he:
1-2-1-1-2-1-1-1-2-1-1


Maybe a bad diagram but you get the drift.

All that matters, in the end we where full at the same time. Maybe the regeneration starts after logging in, and not after the first damage.

 

[Oleg]

yeah, that's how i interpreted oleg's original post too (quoted here). that's why i removed his entry, because it was quite clear that it was exactly 20 secs off, due to what you have explained.

Yes, that's right. Same as JC, I wasn't completely healed at the point the bar was full, because I could fap myself. But I didn't add the 20 seconds, like he did, so yes, we are essentially equal.

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy I am not sure if any one else caught this, I am too tired to read all the posts, if they did please excuse me.


100 at 5% (5% = 5 heal) takes 20 units of time to heal to 100, 5 X 20 = 100

300 at 5% (5% = 15 heal)takes 20 units of time to heal to 300, 15 X 20 = 300

So it takes the same time for both to heal. If it is not a percent X time anymore then all bets are off. I do remember reading the 5% in a certain time as the heal rate and I think it is on the EU site.
Anyway I hope they haven't nerfed the heal thing.

The whole point of the thread is that the 5% rule isn't correct any more. If you are too tired to read all the posts, you could at least read the first one

 

[Jimmy B]

So, is it still a set % every 20 sec? And if so, is it possible to calculate the new %?

No its not a fixed percentage of total health any more.

For it to be a fixed percent, jdegre's formula needs to be y=number*x (like the first one which is the old 5%). The new formula appears to be y=number*x+constant. The constant means there's a fixed rate of heal on top of the percentage based heal. That means avatars with less health will heal more percentage of their health per sec than avatars with more health (the constant term is proportionally bigger compared with their lower total health).

In other words it is fixed percentage of health (apparently now about 1.6% compared with the old 5%) plus a constant heal (regardless of health). For new avatars that additional constant heal makes it still close to the old 5% figure, but for high HP avatars it is much less than the old 5% figure.

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy I am not sure if any one else caught this, I am too tired to read all the posts, if they did please excuse me.


100 at 5% (5% = 5 heal) takes 20 units of time to heal to 100, 5 X 20 = 100

300 at 5% (5% = 15 heal)takes 20 units of time to heal to 300, 15 X 20 = 300

So it takes the same time for both to heal. If it is not a percent X time anymore then all bets are off. I do remember reading the 5% in a certain time as the heal rate and I think it is on the EU site.
Anyway I hope they haven't nerfed the heal thing.

As Oleg says, you've missed the point a bit.

 

[jdegre]

So, is it still a set % every 20 sec? And if so, is it possible to calculate the new %?

No its not a fixed percentage of total health any more.

what jimmy said

assuming the linear rate in the previous graphic is correct, i've plotted the new regen rate (in %/sec). i've used the same graphic as before, but obviously the vertical axis is different (one is HP/sec and the other is %/sec), but you get the idea...

 

[Xen]

Thanks JimmyB and jdegre, I understand now.

I suspect MA wanted to cut down on the amount of "free" health higher hp avatars received.

Contrary to some opinions earlier in this thread, for someone who averages 6-8 hours of hunting per day, and 90%+ of the time not at full health (so almost constantly regenerating), this adds up.

 

[CozMoDan]

No its not a fixed percentage of total health any more.

For it to be a fixed percent, jdegre's formula needs to be y=number*x (like the first one which is the old 5%). The new formula appears to be y=number*x+constant. The constant means there's a fixed rate of heal on top of the percentage based heal. That means avatars with less health will heal more percentage of their health per sec than avatars with more health (the constant term is proportionally bigger compared with their lower total health).

In other words it is fixed percentage of health (apparently now about 1.6% compared with the old 5%) plus a constant heal (regardless of health). For new avatars that additional constant heal makes it still close to the old 5% figure, but for high HP avatars it is much less than the old 5% figure.



As Oleg says, you've missed the point a bit.

I really am tired I thought that it was a question not a fact. My Bad. I did see a couple of others missed it also so I don't feel too bad.

 

[Jimmy B]

Contrary to some opinions earlier in this thread, for someone who averages 6-8 hours of hunting per day, and 90%+ of the time not at full health (so almost constantly regenerating), this adds up.

Xen, yeah it adds up a bit, but its not that huge.

Let's take an example of a 160 HP avatar who spends 6 hours a day without full health. In 5% days, he would heal 160*5%=8 health per 20 sec. So 24 health in a minute. So 24*60=1440 health per hour. So 1440*6=8640 health per day.

According to jdegre's formula he now heals 5.244 health per 20 sec. So his heal rate is 65.55% of what it used to be. So now he heals 8640*65.55%=5664 health per day.

He's lost 2976 health per day. If he's concerned by this we can assume he's eco-conscious and faps up between mobs with fap-5 (if he doesn't this effect is insignificant compared to his eco-waste). So he has to do 2976/10=298 extra fap-5 faps per day. That's 298 pec or about 3 PED per day and about 1000 PED per year.

OK its not completely insignificant. But most people could comfortably save a lot more per day by just doing something a tiny bit more eco.

And it could plausibly be setting the scene ready for stamina to start working which would be cool, hypothetically.

 

[Xen]

Xen, yeah it adds up a bit, but its not that huge.

Let's take an example of a 160 HP avatar who spends 6 hours a day without full health. In 5% days, he would heal 160*5%=8 health per 20 sec. So 24 health in a minute. So 24*60=1440 health per hour. So 1440*6=8640 health per day.

According to jdegre's formula he now heals 5.244 health per 20 sec. So his heal rate is 65.55% of what it used to be. So now he heals 8640*65.55%=5664 health per day.

He's lost 2976 health per day. If he's concerned by this we can assume he's eco-conscious and faps up between mobs with fap-5 (if he doesn't this effect is insignificant compared to his eco-waste). So he has to do 2976/10=298 extra fap-5 faps per day. That's 298 pec or about 3 PED per day and about 1000 PED per year.

OK its not completely insignificant. But most people could comfortably save a lot more per day by just doing something a tiny bit more eco.

And it could plausibly be setting the scene ready for stamina to start working which would be cool, hypothetically.

Thanks for the calculations. I was going to ask but figured it was something I should do myself.

But, when healing between mobs, I use the same fap as during combat. If I didn't, I would either have to spend more time per day to get the same amount of skills, or spend the same time and get less skilling in. It's a time/money situation. So with my hunting/fapping style, I lose about 2300 ped per year. $230 is $230. It's certainly a lot more significant than the clothing/armor equip fees.

What's truly significant is multiplying by however many hours per day everyone is hunting, and how much more income this is for MA.

If they implement stamina and that increases health regen that would be cool, although I have my doubts...

 

[Immortal]

So with my hunting/fapping style, I lose about 2300 ped per year. $230 is $230. It's certainly a lot more significant than the clothing/armor equip fees.

Only if you assume that fap decay doesn't contribute to your personal lootpool.

 

[Phil Surtees]

So, if I understand this thread, the fact is, health definitely regenerates at a slower rate than it used to.
To me, the consequence of this is more fap usage, meaning more decay, meaning more of the money put into the game stays with MA. Is that correct?

Just wondering, as I over-fap for skilling, so I contribute lots of decay.

And I guess the increased regen of some mobs can be considered the other side of this coin, as you not only expend more ammo, but more decay.

 

[Xen]

Only if you assume that fap decay doesn't contribute to your personal lootpool.

Actually, I think it might, but forgot to include that in my calcs. So depending on how much of fap decay is returned, it may not be much at all. But that's undetermined.

 

[Immortal]

Actually, I think it might, but forgot to include that in my calcs. So depending on how much of fap decay is returned, it may not be much at all. But that's undetermined.

Check out the fap skills thread. I made a comment in there about it.
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/skills/114929-sib-healing-tools-experiment-8.html
ur-125 only need 36% TT return on the fap to break even in the long run. (if skill markups and fap-prices remained constant)

 

[Xen]

Check out the fap skills thread. I made a comment in there about it.
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/skills/114929-sib-healing-tools-experiment-8.html
ur-125 only need 36% TT return on the fap to break even in the long run. (if skill markups and fap-prices remained constant)

My brain is not working very well atm due to lack of sleep, so if you'd care to run some calcs, maybe you could do a comparison between a ur-125 and say a 2600, if 80% of tt spent is returned in loot. Include figures for if you sell (or count the value of) skills gained, and if you don't. If you want to.

Sorry for a little OT... maybe post results in the thread you linked.

 

[rhogenbe]

Ok so if MA takes all the decay from the armors, tools and weapons, what happens to the melee decay? The ammo shot will go to the lootpool, but the melee is only decay. So melee users will not contribute to the lootpool but will loot from the lootpool regarding the cost for the damage they do.

It is a bit off topic in this thread.
But since we are lately getting a message like that your ammo stack is in need of repair soon i would tend to say that MA looks on ammo usage as decay so this would make all weapons equal.

Cheers
Siam

 

[Jimmy B]

Thanks for the calculations. I was going to ask but figured it was something I should do myself.

But, when healing between mobs, I use the same fap as during combat. If I didn't, I would either have to spend more time per day to get the same amount of skills, or spend the same time and get less skilling in. It's a time/money situation. So with my hunting/fapping style, I lose about 2300 ped per year. $230 is $230. It's certainly a lot more significant than the clothing/armor equip fees.

What's truly significant is multiplying by however many hours per day everyone is hunting, and how much more income this is for MA.

If they implement stamina and that increases health regen that would be cool, although I have my doubts...

Whilst I don't disagree with anything you say exactly, some comments:

(i) The fapping up uneconomy is partly of your choosing. I do the same often, out of lazyness. But whilst there is a time issue, you can undoubtably sometimes use fap-5 instead without losing time (e.g. run to next mob, pause, fap, continue running, costs you very little time).
(ii) As per the on-going discussion, you may well get some of the decay returned later.
(iii) As you say, part of your reasoning is skill gain, so this should be taken into account too.

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

I did also a Test today,
I got revived at 16:57 and was at full health 27:25 I have 159,4 HP's.
The health increas was allways at xx:05, xx:25, xx:45 so I assume that I needed 10 minutes and 20 seconds or 620 seconds from 0 to full 159,4 HP's.

After last nerfe, rate reduced from 5% to 4 1/6% every 20 seconds, it took me exactly 8 minutes or 480 seconds from 0 to 150 HP's.

PS: I have to admit that healthbar was at full health 27:05 but I could Fap me then so I added 20 seconds to the end time to compensate for that.

PPS: 140 seconds more for 9 HP's more... 100% sure MA nerfed it again in not even 1 year second time they reduced this while they upped the regen rate for some Mobs to 5 seconds...

 

[Immortal]

PPS: 140 seconds more for 9 HP's more... 100% sure MA nerfed it again in not even 1 year second time they reduced this while they upped the regen rate for some Mobs to 5 seconds...

Why do you call something you get for free a nerf?

 

[Mega]

Why do you call something you get for free a nerf?

You got a free nose. If I removed it - it'd be a nerf (and most likely jail too)

 

[Immortal]

You got a free nose. If I removed it - it'd be a nerf (and most likely jail too)

The citizens of Earth nerfed my ambient air oxygen % who do I complain to.

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

The citizens of Earth nerfed my ambient air oxygen % who do I complain to.

Maybe you have to start with you, your car if you have one, your air condition if you have one, your governement etc. etc. A lot of places where you could start to do something to get better ambient air.

Or if your governement ups taxes they did nerfe it, btw the service they do to you is payed with it same as MA's service is payed by the decay they get from usage of equipment and they provide some free service with that now they reduce the amount of service they give out at least the second time in not ewven one year without telling anything to their paying customers. What would you do if your governement reduces the services they do without any notice you would cheer them up to do it again and again or think that they may do something wrong with their silent adjustments?

PS: one thing is the nerfe the other thing is the unwillingnes of MA to tell us about it and that even support cases about it they answer false, either because the support people do not know anything about it or they just blatantly lie to us.

 

[Quint]

Forgot to report this observation made yesterday after a beacon trip.

Beacon finished as usual and we all died simultaneously. We noticed afterwards our health bars were filling up at different rates, and eventually determined that the people with higher HP were taking longer to return to full health than the people with lower HP. So it appears that avatars regenerate at a constant rate, regardless of HP.

I always used to understand that it regenerated at a rate based on a constant percentage of your HP, and someone else on the beacon says he's sure in the past people's health bars used to refill at the same rate, so presumably that's been changed perhaps with the VU.

Guess it makes little difference one way or the other really, just thought it was interesting at the time.

We also did a beacon last week with our soc, and when the ship exploded I asked my socmates not to fap, so we could check this phenomenon again. And to my surprise we all regenerated at the same pace, even though our HP levels were different (ranging from about 95 to 145 I think).

So would MA have changed it back again ? Or is the difference in our HP levels too small to draw conclusions ?

 

[Jimmy B]

Interesting. No, the difference between 95 and 145 HP would have been visible previously.

Any confirm from other beaconeers?

 

[Mega]

I tested right after VU 9.3.4 (5th Sep) to see if there had been any change.

126.2 HP 546 seconds.

So there was no change from

124.5 HP 538 seconds back in July.