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Ban people from your shop

I agree something should be done if you do not wish to sell to person X who will ressell the products. That is why most of the large shops i know limit the amount of promotion items that a single person can buy, to avoid abuse. Of course, if someone wants to stock another shop to ressell those, he can bring more people to do the buy (if prices are that interesting). And they can always come back later on to ressuply, there's a low chance of being detected in large surface shops where you have 50-100 cash registers.
Same thing with concert tickets or football tickets. You can only buy a certain amount of tickets per person (per ID number). This is to avoid abuse by decrease the black market sell of tickets in the street or internet. Authorities are making if even harder now, by marking the tickets with your full name, ID number and other stuff :). So, it's not a discrimination, it is a good measure to avoid abuse.
However, in a savage and unregulated market such as EU, few choices are available, and unfortunately, youi may be forced to raise prices or go private.
 
I dont see any point in undercutting auction for more than the auction fees ?!

shouldnt solve that one the problem alone ?
 
Dollymaus said:
I dont see any point in undercutting auction for more than the auction fees ?!

shouldnt solve that one the problem alone ?
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just because u can, doesnt mean u have too :S.
and providing prices just bellow auction (read just minus fees) also isnt customers apealing shopwise.
if iam in the green on something, why would i want to raise a price.
who really want to just save up fee by comming in shop?
who wants to find one amp in shop only aswell ?
on otherside when something is hard, of course its better if u can raise it,but sometimes u just have to take loss, but not the point.
when i sell a product, price set is dependant of: cost to make the batch, current prices auction, current best prices, current in shop and how demand offer is, aswell as what provide competitor, its how u set a price.

and although there is few good crafters providing nice prices too, iam not the only one out there that sell most of times for better than fee saved on auction.
 
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xXSqUaLLXx said:
A problem about providing good prices is that, some resellers keep buying too much stuff for reselling purpose instead of customers wich push a price raise obviously and eat more goodprices than customers itself at times.
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Ye, I'm sure you really care about honorably providing good prices for the community instead of reducing looses of your own profit with this awesome idea...
 
lol :D nice advertisement for your shop, I have to visit some day ;)

Now that recurring story of resellers who buy in a shop to resell sounds like an urban legend (...)

Ah, someone bought most of the Korss H400 this late afternoon, so ok, that kind of jackass reselling is indeed possible - I am just wondering for what profit.

And yep, throwing dirt at the trade when you sell stuff yourself, it's pretty funny indeed.
i guess u can somehow call discrimination, asking to have right on who u sell items to in shop, i just know that in reality, if i dont want someone in my shop, i have right to decide to not sell and ask nicely the person to get out, at least in France, in my property private, perhaps different from here i dont know, but it is a problem.
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About France and the law, no, you have to sell unless of course the person is rocking your shop.
Here it is: http://sos-net.eu.org/conso/code/infodat1q.htm
 
Konve said:
Do you have a source for this? Because I don't think it's universally true, even if perhaps locally. I know you can't discriminate anyone, but as far as I know the definition of discrimination doesn't include "this dude has no use for my products other then reselling."
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You are not allowed (atleast in Holland) to refuse people in you're shop, if you want to "ban" people from you're shop you need to bring it to court. Another story is refusing certain ages, but this is set in law (adult, alcohol etc.)
 
Hubert Zymp said:
lol :D nice advertisement for your shop, I have to visit some day ;)

Now that recurring story of resellers who buy in a shop to resell sounds like an urban legend (...)

Ah, someone bought most of the Korss H400 this late afternoon, so ok, that kind of jackass reselling is indeed possible - I am just wondering for what profit.
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It's not an urban legend, it's something most shop owners have probably observed. I know i have. The profit of the reseller is irrelevant: the point is that they are cleaning out the shop for legitimate customers that the owner wants to provide a service for.

The real problems here are:
  • No invested identity. Alternate avatars have the same rights and privileges as originals. More game mechanics should be based on ID verification (which is presently achieved with a gold card).
  • MA providing too good of a service to support their own economy (auction). In trying to establish a virtual economy, the first rule of thumb should be to never provide for free services that players will do on their own. By bypassing shops and otherwise short-circuiting a normal retail process, MA has really shot themselves in the foot. This is one of the outcomes.

While i think the option to blacklist avatars should be there, this would just be treating a symptom of a much greater problem.
 
I don't see the big issue here. Your items are selling for the price you are asking for. Does it matter what they do with the item?

Like someone said earlier, if it's a reseller, then they will obviously be inflating the price on auction, making your shop more attractive to a buyer.

Only problem I see is being able to keep your shop stocked with goods. Sounds like you either need to craft larger batches at a time, or increase your prices.

Simple supply and demand at work here. If demand is high, but you want to keep the price the same, increase the supply. If demand is high, but you can't increase the supply, then you can increase the price. Those are really your only two options here...
 
It's a good idea... and nice to see someone favoring being a positive part of the community over short term profit. nothing against resellers, but it;s definitely better for the average gamer if it's cheaper to do things like hunt, mine, and craft.

not sure if it will ever really work because of all the loopholes, but a limit of items/customer or a "exclude list" isn't the worst thing.
 
Sorry to tell you but this isn't going to happen


1) It is pointless, resellers that do such things most likelly will create secondary family avatars to circunvent the system.





2) Have you look at the features offered currently to the "bank" owners
(if I had spent like them 50000USD I sure would force MA to give more code to such feature (and would gladly pay 5000 USD of computer coding time, to add many features to at least being able to call it a pawn shop, because they aren't even at such level)

3) Something that ought to be present from DAY ONE in a RCE wasn't available for 7 years
-> Search in auction


Anyway it doesn't cost too much to wish and ask for some obvious features




So why ban ?
pointless and troublesome

Why not allow shop onwers to create
special services to selected clients like in real shops

The client buys something and then is entitled to ask the owner to reach a special level of purchasing rights

Now that's more of my wish.
 
funny thing is i confirmed to squall that a shop can refuse sale or access to any person they see fit. the reason i said so is because i run a shop irl and i will bar YOU if u piss me off (ie steal, cause a ruckus, insult my staff or anything else i see fit). also i still notice drunk assholes getting barred from my local pub, i know card counters get barred from casinos (except in AC) and night clubs often have "dress codes" and therefore refuse entry. for example my local casino requires a dinner jacket and no sneakers for male clients. alot of night clubs also have the no sneaker policy yet it doesnt apply for girls (discrimination? :eek: )

Hubert Zymp said:
lol :D nice advertisement for your shop, I have to visit some day ;)

Now that recurring story of resellers who buy in a shop to resell sounds like an urban legend (...)

Ah, someone bought most of the Korss H400 this late afternoon, so ok, that kind of jackass reselling is indeed possible - I am just wondering for what profit.

And yep, throwing dirt at the trade when you sell stuff yourself, it's pretty funny indeed.
About France and the law, no, you have to sell unless of course the person is rocking your shop.
Here it is: http://sos-net.eu.org/conso/code/infodat1q.htm
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link says to refuse to sell to a person u must have a legitimate reason, it defines them as such:
De manière générale, le motif est considéré comme légitime en cas d'anormalité de la demande du consommateur (par exemple, demander 500 boites de petits pois ou quelques centilitres d'essence) ou de mauvaise foi de sa part (intention de nuire à l'activité du professionnel).
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rough translation: generally, the reason is considered legitimate if the consumer makes a abnormal demand (such as 500 cans of peas or a few cl. of petrol) or bad faith on his part (the intention to hinder the retailers activity).
(let me know if i made a mistake, just translated on the fly.)

the interesting part is where it says the intention to hinder the retailers activities. when a reseller buys all of his shit in his shop, to then sell on auction or somewhere else, he is hindering his ability to sell by (a) cleaning out the shop when he cannot restock it, (b) by providing competition on the auction which also competes with his shop, (c) virtually all retailers also use the auction, so they are providing a means for someone else to compete with themselves (which is retarded to say the least), and (d) the reseller is killing his concept (which seems to be cheap shit for ppl who use it).

it doesnt sound difficult to code in as everything is already in place, maybe just add a button with that function in the estate terminal.
 
If your products are getting sold, why are you worrying? Resellers will always be there, no matter what.
 
I dont see what the problem is from your perspective. Most serious miners probarbly get their amps from an avatar or a shop. If some resellers buys your amps, just make more?
I see the problem that your stock run out, but still, good situation for you.
 
Why should your amps always be the cheapest on the market? :silly2:

I have never bought an amp from you through principle... and wouldn't no matter how cheap you wanna sell it :cool:

Be happy with providing amps to those that want them and stop whinning about who YOU want to sell them too!

If you only want to sell to certain individuals then you should sell your shop and go back to street trading.

Regards
Scudd
 
StatikNode said:
If your products are getting sold, why are you worrying? Resellers will always be there, no matter what.
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Here's the problem. I sell itemA in auction at 50ped but in my shop I sell it at 40ped. Reseller comes along and buys itemA for 40ped from shop and lists it for 49ped in auction.

Now I and all other real crafters now have to drop price on auction to 49ped or the reseller just keeps takiing from my shop and selling on auction. Now auction price is 49ped the reseller takes from my shop at 40ped and lists for 48ped etc.

Eventualy auction price drops to a point where people coming to shop are only saving the auction fee, and there's not much incentive for players to visit my shop. The reseller, who has no vested interest in 1 specific item market, then just moves on to another item and screws up that market.

I'm sure many of u think it's great that the auction prices drop this way, but it really leaves no reason for shops. It is currently more difficult to buy from shops than it is to buy from auction, the only thing a shop owner can compete on is price.

MA need to look into the whole system, there are things that can be done to improve shops and give people an incentive to go shopping instead of just grabbing something from auction. While I like the recent auction improvements it just makes it harder for shops to compete, and something needs to be done about it fast.
 
May by a solution could be that if one buys an item from a shop or shopkeeper one can not put it on auction or private trade it for say a period of 14 days. Only the TT terminal can except them otherwise you would harm the real users.
That could be simple enough to implement.

Cheers
Siam
 
i always goes to shop and buy whatever its cheap and resell it, if u dont like that, why not pull it off the shelf and sell it yourself? :)
 
slither said:
Here's the problem. I sell itemA in auction at 50ped but in my shop I sell it at 40ped. Reseller comes along and buys itemA for 40ped from shop and lists it for 49ped in auction.

Now I and all other real crafters now have to drop price on auction to 49ped or the reseller just keeps takiing from my shop and selling on auction. Now auction price is 49ped the reseller takes from my shop at 40ped and lists for 48ped etc.

Eventualy auction price drops to a point where people coming to shop are only saving the auction fee, and there's not much incentive for players to visit my shop. The reseller, who has no vested interest in 1 specific item market, then just moves on to another item and screws up that market.

I'm sure many of u think it's great that the auction prices drop this way, but it really leaves no reason for shops. It is currently more difficult to buy from shops than it is to buy from auction, the only thing a shop owner can compete on is price.

MA need to look into the whole system, there are things that can be done to improve shops and give people an incentive to go shopping instead of just grabbing something from auction. While I like the recent auction improvements it just makes it harder for shops to compete, and something needs to be done about it fast.
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It's not like the auction prices are static - (some) people always undercut eachother.

On the other hand, trying to prevent it by ganging up and making the price fixed would be (at least IRL) illegal.

slither said:
Eventualy auction price drops to a point where people coming to shop are only saving the auction fee, and there's not much incentive for players to visit my shop. The reseller, who has no vested interest in 1 specific item market, then just moves on to another item and screws up that market.
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Wasn't this exactly the point of the shops? :scratch2: No one has forced shops on anyone, so if shopowners are to use them then it's their business to try and get people to visit them - if they can make more money on auction then logically they should scrap their shops, unless they're running a sharity. (Sorry for sounding harsh, it's not directed at anyone in particular - it's just the basic principle as I see it.)

Honestly this whole thread adds a very interesting discussion to the whole area of "real economy" - I bet Marco is reading it with a big smile on his face. :ahh:

Let's Mortal Combat - Round One!
Shopowners (Market) VS FPC (Government)
Go!
 
Konve said:
It's not like the auction prices are static - (some) people always undercut eachother.

On the other hand, trying to prevent it by ganging up and making the price fixed would be (at least IRL) illegal.
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On the other hand, IRL there isn't a magical auction available everywhere with instant delivery and low cost.

Wasn't this exactly the point of the shops? :scratch2: No one has forced shops on anyone, so if shopowners are to use them then it's their business to try and get people to visit them - if they can make more money on auction then logically they should scrap their shops, unless they're running a sharity. (Sorry for sounding harsh, it's not directed at anyone in particular - it's just the basic principle as I see it.)

Honestly this whole thread adds a very interesting discussion to the whole area of "real economy" - I bet Marco is reading it with a big smile on his face. :ahh:

Let's Mortal Combat - Round One!
Shopowners (Market) VS FPC (Government)
Go!
Click to expand...

When your government is also the god-creator of all rules, goods, and venues, it puts the market at a remarkable disadvantage. It's in everyone's best interest that retail endeavors succeed because every system that fails in EU is one more blemish on the neon sign calling new investors. If Marco is reading this, he really should have a sick feeling in his stomach and a determination to stop undermining the economy with unnatural meddling.

The current retail situation is basically this: MA buys a yacht and sells timeshares on it (shops/malls); MA shoots itself in the foot and holes the hull in the process (expansion and improvement in auction with no real improvement on shops since inception).
 
this is the must stupid thing i ever heard of:). Even in china or russian federation this is against all the rules of the market:). To ban a customer? ..in any way posible?..my god..:).IRL resselers and traders..are shops ,litle bussinesis, open traders, street traders etc, and alllllll these people buy from an 'wholesaling' guys..or first hand 'crafters' or factories..litle workshops..etc.etc. If you kill resselers or any other customers..you r dead:). Even in this case in EU. They make the economy go round . That is an old and known issue of the economy. If yhou ban a customer..you ban yourself.

Lets say you gone ban a resseler or a trader who sell his amp or gun bought from you. What that reseller will do?..first step ..will look for another crafter(is very easy to buy from the same crafter with a friend help soc member etc..but i will look for economical reason here), he will buy at the end from only one crafter who will craft more ..will sell more...and will take more hofs and ath at the end. So..in any case...only the smartest crafter and who respect unwritten law of every economy of this world..will win .

Anyway i advise people to not buy from pasqual aka xxxsquallxxx aka (bubu pq peach) (are the same person) .....anymore..becouse he have high prices all the time. Try auktuma or Leo who have two very good shops and prices..or alex neophyte if you find him..or vlad banokin..very good prices too.
Pasqual have in most time bigger prices even then auction. Only if nobady buy from him....every one two weeks..he put his prices under the auction.

So..who dont respect customers....normal ones or bigger ones...will be out anyway.
 
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I have had same problem and some time I was jealous too, but thinking about it in detail I came to peace with any visitor. To my view point any purchaser would like to have all rights on any item they purchased. To use, sell, donate, gift... Unless it will be player-to-player agreement on the purchase deal. So they should be able to do anything what they want.
Greatest problem in EU is problem about distribution - that's why we have so many traders. Not much we could do - help of trader is needed on distribution. And is normal when traders did service they cut their %. You have seen people working in your shop - simply wait until more people will get to it - after some competition they will offer fair service on distributing your items setting just low % above yours.
I'm in peace with people who were helping on distribution of items - they were buying items in my shop for cheaper and spreading within community while making a ped or two. And I'm still telling to any1 - shop is open for any visitor. Even if I post items there at TT and see repost in auction. Lucky people to hit the gift :D

If you would like more items to sell at good prices yourself simply ask friends (alike you do with bubu) to post it in auction for you (the way what "resellers" do).

Auction is great for distribution of goods - people like simplicity and speed. Really I'm waiting until another step on solving (I bet it will appear) - to buy/sell items at above trade terminal value at Trade Terminal. MA could offer that service for items what got stable or semistable market, i.e. for items what used in bulks daily, while making some % for risk of market instability.

/auk

Entering your shop and looking to items at display the visitor could have in mind: "wow, so cheap and not yet sold, very strange! I think I could help here :D". Banning for the wish of help is crazzy.
 
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ffs will people stop saying it's illegal to ban people from shops IRL. It's illegal to sell guns IRL and nobody is complaining.

Anyway, it's not illegal in UK to ban a customer from your shop.
 
slither said:
ffs will people stop saying it's illegal to ban people from shops IRL. It's illegal to sell guns IRL and nobody is complaining.

Anyway, it's not illegal in UK to ban a customer from your shop.
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Next they will tell us it's illegal to take out restraining orders on people in some country (sic)
 
Wait.. you are setting a price on an item in your shop... and somebody is buying it at that price? You should be thanking the resellers or raise your prices, not complaining.
 
Here's the problem. I sell itemA in auction at 50ped but in my shop I sell it at 40ped. Reseller comes along and buys itemA for 40ped from shop and lists it for 49ped in auction.

Now I and all other real crafters now have to drop price on auction to 49ped or the reseller just keeps takiing from my shop and selling on auction. Now auction price is 49ped the reseller takes from my shop at 40ped and lists for 48ped etc.

Eventualy auction price drops to a point where people coming to shop are only saving the auction fee, and there's not much incentive for players to visit my shop.
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The real problem, then, is that shops are not sufficiently easy to access compared to the auction. I think that is the problem which MA need to address. Shops need to be easier to find and access and their contents need to be advertised better.
How about this:
All items available for sale in a shop somewhere should be visible in auction (but not biddable of course). That way, when people sort in the auction, the ywill see which shop has cheaper prices than auction. They can then decide to go there and buy the item or pay a higher price in auction. WOuld this work?
 
Even if it was possible not to let certain ppl into your store, they'd keep making new accounts and keep comming back. You want to know why?

Is it because in Squall's shop you can find nice prices???

Is it because Squall's shop has almost always full stock???

Is it because Squall is one of most known EU legends???

Is it because Squall is a very nice guy and ppl like to buy from friendly shop owners???

No, no, no and ONCE AGAIN NO!!!



It's because Squall's shop is a best "Sex shop" on Callypso :laugh:

And here's the proof:

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]





PS. A little bit off topic, but I just coudnt resist ;)
 
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