Bone samples- what should I pay?

[Rumsponge]

Since they are still kind of new, it's hard to get a good price history.

I haven't checked lately, but I think my current agility is in the 70 range. Following some suggestions, I've been offering 1 PEC each or 1.10 PEDs per hundred.

Is that reasonable? Am I screwing the noobies? Am I screwing myself? Any thoughts?

 

[SnowLeopard]

I might have called this thread "1 Agility point", since in essence, the introduction of these trade-able bone samples allows the market to determine the value of 1 Agility point.

So at 1 pec per bone sample, your are pricing Agility at 100 ped per point.

Unfortunately, I have no clue if this is too little or too much... but I am anxious to see the first post in the Achievements section for 200 Agility!!

 

[w d roberts]

Is that reasonable? Am I screwing the noobies? Am I screwing myself? Any thoughts?

I see a couple ways of looking at this.

First what is it worth to the buyer? That could vary a lot. If you have 10 agility, you probably wouldn't buy these bones at any price 'cause it is so easy to get another agility point. If you have 99 agility, 100 ped get to 100 might be a no brainer. At 70ish? Well, you'll have to answer that for yourself.

A different way to look at is the cost of gathering the bones. To figure this you'd need to know the drop rate, the efficiency of a gun a noob might be using, the rate of return for hunting these mobs etc. If you want noobies to keep hunting 'till you (and everyone else who wants agility) get your 10K bones, you'll probably need to pay enough so they can break even on the hunt.

Of course, like everything else, supply and demand will determine the actual price.

That said, I'd pay twice what you are offering

... but I am anxious to see the first post in the Achievements section for 200 Agility!!

Is this mission repeatable? If not people will only be able to get one additional point. (If it is repeatable, hello 200 )

 

[Svarog]

Hm, and people actually sell for 1.1 ped per 100? I mean, newbies of course have no idea about values and it's all subjective, but shouldn't the demand exceed the offer by far now and drive the prices up? Because even at 2... hell, at 5 ped per 100 it makes what, 500 ped per 1 agility point? Wow. Aren't people spending dozens if not hundreds times more on iron missions for the same reward.

but I am anxious to see the first post in the Achievements section for 200 Agility!!

Isn't the mission a one-timer?

 

[w d roberts]

... hell, at 5 ped per 100 it makes what, 500 ped per 1 agility point? Wow. Aren't people spending dozens if not hundreds times more on iron missions for the same reward.

I'm guessing it's going to go even higher than 5 ped per 100, at least for a while 'till people with high agility (and care about attributes) have gotten theirs.

 

[Sub-Zero]

in before 100+ avatars with 100+ agility. Now all that's left is stamina token tradeable for a stackable - I need 300 health asap.

 

[Rumsponge]

Hm, and people actually sell for 1.1 ped per 100? I mean, newbies of course have no idea about values and it's all subjective, but shouldn't the demand exceed the offer by far now and drive the prices up? Because even at 2... hell, at 5 ped per 100 it makes what, 500 ped per 1 agility point? Wow. Aren't people spending dozens if not hundreds times more on iron missions for the same reward.

Isn't the mission a one-timer?

People were buying them for 1 PED per hundred when I first showed up. I figured I was doing the new players a favor by giving a 10% premium over that.


People are spending a lot of money grinding Iron Missions for loot, skills, fun, and (in some cases) an agility bonus. You don't get any less loot from those mobs if you have an active mission (I hope).

Yes, AFAIK, the mission can only be completed once per player.

 

[Rumsponge]

First what is it worth to the buyer? That could vary a lot. If you have 10 agility, you probably wouldn't buy these bones at any price 'cause it is so easy to get another agility point. If you have 99 agility, 100 ped get to 100 might be a no brainer. At 70ish? Well, you'll have to answer that for yourself.

Well, that's just it. To me, Agility isn't terribly important.
- Its contribution to Evader profession is someplace between Avoidance and Quickness.
- It gives 1 health point per 40, so not really worth talking about.
- I get by playing just as I get any other skill, and as a mission reward in some cases.

On the other hand,
- It's not chipable, so you can't just buy it on auction.

A different way to look at is the cost of gathering the bones. To figure this you'd need to know the drop rate, the efficiency of a gun a noob might be using, the rate of return for hunting these mobs etc. If you want noobies to keep hunting 'till you (and everyone else who wants agility) get your 10K bones, you'll probably need to pay enough so they can break even on the hunt.

But here's the thing-
- They get the bones as part of their hunting loot anyway. It's not like sweat gathering which is boring and sucks.
- I have to hope that since they have virtually no TT value, it doesn't decrease their normal loot.
- I'm not really hiring or encouraging them to go gather bones. I'm just offering to buy something that has no value otherwise.
- I will need to spend a lot of my time standing around, spamming chat when I'd really rather be out killing stuff.
- There is essentially an unlimited supply of bones and there will always be more new players hunting Puny mobs.

That said, I'd pay twice what you are offering

Maybe that's what I should be paying, I don't know. I guess that's why I started this thread. I don't care a lot about the agility point and really don't see the need to pay 500 PEDs for one point. On the other hand, I don't want to screw anybody over. I'm really just trying to help out some new players without having to buy sweat and without going broke.






Is this mission repeatable? If not people will only be able to get one additional point. (If it is repeatable, hello 200 )[/QUOTE]

 

[Doer]

I'll say this: Rumsponge showed up and offered 10% more than anyone else has offered at Camp Icarus when i've been there. On the forum players keep assuming a huge demand and high prices, but in reality nobody is buying bones (yet anyway).

I think 1 pec each is a very reasonable price, and 1.1 ped per 100 is 10% more. Think about it: the drop rate is around 1/9 punies in my experience now, or 1 per 90/2.8=32 pecs output. That means that at 1 pec apiece they represent a constant 3% back on their expenses for the newbies, without actually representing any meaningful tt of the loot. That's not too shabby. I know i'm not going to pay more than a pec apiece for them, at least not anytime soon. And i guess that's the thing: this is for agility tokens, and many/most players interested in attributes are also taking the long view and saving tokens until they have hit the wall on gains. They're in no hurry to cash in the bones, anyway...

 

[Dennis blighter]

what drops these? and is this a mission or what?

 

[arkon409]

what drops these? and is this a mission or what?

The mission is found at the small camp se of the volcano and only puny mobs drop them. Ie puny chompers, or berys.

 

[Rumsponge]

I was at Icarus this afternoon and someone was buying them for 1 pec each again. Next time I'm there and no one else is buying, I'll see if I can get an idea of what the players want to sell for.

I could go a little more w/o feeling too bad about it. But at that level, I suspect that most would rather have a quick turn over than to wait for the max dollar.

 

[w d roberts]

Well, that's just it. To me, Agility isn't terribly important. ...
On the other hand... It's not chipable...

... bones as part of their hunting loot anyway....

Maybe that's what I should be paying, I don't know...

Well thought out response, and I don't disagree with any of it. I'm interested what supply and demand ends up saying.

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

I love the fact that they drop from Puny, newbies have now a very decent way to gather PED at very low cost and profit from it (probably) very slow, but still profit.

The thing is, Bones drop only one by one and 1 in 10 or so kills. They really have a use and require a big ammount of them. And I can't see anyone grinding their own bones.

I would say they will be worth more than 1pec a piece, just because we see people grinding the atribute missions everyday, losing thousands of PED in the process.

 

[johan roadkill]

I love the fact that they drop from Puny, newbies have now a very decent way to gather PED at very low cost and profit from it (probably) very slow, but still profit.

The thing is, Bones drop only one by one and 1 in 10 or so kills. They really have a use and require a big ammount of them. And I can't see anyone grinding their own bones.

I would say they will be worth more than 1pec a piece, just because we see people grinding the atribute missions everyday, losing thousands of PED in the process.

how does it work?

10K bones = 1 agi?

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

how does it work?

10K bones = 1 agi?

Yep, it's a mission.

Don't know if it is repeatable or not.

 

[Falagor]

Quick calculation:

• puny mob has 10hp
• lets say the drop rate is 1bone / 10kills (Doer said 1/9 but i heard about 1/10 on avg - seems this is pretty much reasonable to assume here and easier to count ).
• lets say that you can effectively hunt punies with effective eco of 2.8 dmg/pec (including overkill, thats why its little lower than 2.9).
• 10k bones = 100k mobs killed = 1mil hp dealt
• this means 3571.42ped cycled on punies to get 10k bones (expected on average)
• considering the 90% TT return loot theory very satisfying price would be around 300peds per 10k bones (probably in big stack of 10k would be worth little more as "ready to take").

of course hunting punies results not in all TT food loot and also there is a lot of skills gained involved in the process...
...hovewer...
...cycling 3.5k peds on punies is very time consuimng. I know it from practice - i have cycled a lot of peds skilling on caraboks (over 12k peds cycled for sure and probably much more not tracked down - including cycling over 4k peds in one month when skilling cryogenics intensively). Most you can cycle without going crazy is about 200peds / day so cycling 3.5k peds will take at least around 20 days of mindless grinding puny mobs. I really doubt any uber will have this much patience .

Also considering that puny mobs on Calypso give 3-4 times less skill gains and attribute gains than Caraboks punies - i think i would still end up with more agi gain (and much more skillgain) killing those 100k caraboks instead of 100k punies with getting +1 agi for myself (at least now when i am still 70 agi, person with +130 agi most likely will want +1). So carabok win over Caly punies on whole line.

If the quest is not repetable i would say the price should be arond 100-400peds per +1 agi.
If it is repetable then it should be more due to higher demand. I would guess around 200-600ped.

Falagor

 

[johan roadkill]

Yep, it's a mission.

Don't know if it is repeatable or not.

ah thought you could acctually collect as much as you wanted

oh well atleast 1-3 people or so guessing 1 active only will get 200 agi now ^^

or maybe Dan allready has 200? bluefire had 199 atleast years ago

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

ah thought you could acctually collect as much as you wanted

oh well atleast 1-3 people or so guessing 1 active only will get 200 agi now ^^

or maybe Dan allready has 200? bluefire had 199 atleast years ago

No, I mean, you can collect as many bones as you wish. But the trigger to get the +1 Agility is through a mission.

 

[Vedder]

...
puny mob has 10hp
10k bones = 100k mobs killed = 100mil hp dealt
...

100k mobs with 10 HP each is 1M hp. Not 100M.

 

[w d roberts]

...
The thing is, Bones drop only one by one and 1 in 10 or so kills. ..

I don't know the rate but in another thread the rate seems to be higher:

confirmed phasm pup.
confirmed highland exarosaur.
confirmed highland allophyl.
confirmed highland mourner.
confirmed hiryuu fledgeling
drop rate for the above 5 is near 100% (not including noloot/fragloot)

confirmed freshwater calypsocod (2/2 -- too small sample to guage droprate)
confirmed highland longtooth (again small sample)
confirmed fouling

droprate on pygmy chomper is around 25%

droprate on daikiba cub is either less that 2%, or actually 0% (no drops after 70 kills)

Quick calculation:

• puny mob has 10hp
• lets say the drop rate is 1bone / 10kills ...

ok, but looks like it could be 1 bone in 2 kills. I guess I need to shoot some to find out

 

[Kerham]

I had same dilemma. Since is a very new item and I'm buying in blind (without knowing state of the market in 1-3-6 months from now on), I simply went with how much I'd pay for myself, and that's 100-200 peds. Hence, I went to the lowest point (in my interest, doh), which is 1 pec/piece.

The funny aspects:

- cost of acquiring bones: I'd guess the newbs' cost to acquire bones (if all other loot is considered tt food) is about 5 pec a piece. (my personal cost was 3-3.5)

- cost in time hunting: well, hunting I've raised close to 500 pieces in 2 days of hunting (where that means say 6-7 hours, for what I can play in my evenings)

- cost in time buying: way worse, maybe 70% speed compared to hunting (I strongly believe most newbs TT them)

I'd say that droprate atm is way too low to generate a market yet. And I'd wildly guess that increasing the droprate would actually increase the price ("ready-made" mechanism quoted above would actually be possible).

So it's still an open matter. Until there's not enough pressure from both ends (agility "buyers" and aware newbies), we won't have an image.

ok, but looks like it could be 1 bone in 2 kills. I guess I need to shoot some to find out

At least until last night when I logged out, hell no, it;s 1 bone/9-10 kills, subject to your own eco.

I love the fact that they drop from Puny, newbies have now a very decent way to gather PED at very low cost and profit from it (probably) very slow, but still profit.

Only if they sweat every mob. Most of them lose their arses off, bone or no bone. (no pun intended ffs)(no puny either)(ok I'll stop)

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

Only if they sweat every mob. Most of them lose their arses off, bone or no bone. (no pun intended ffs)(no puny either)(ok I'll stop)

I sweat I read "boner" the first time.... you are a very puny guy.

 

[Doer]

Pretty confident about my ~1/9 figure from ordinary Camp Icarus punies (bery and caud). I've looted over 700 myself at approximately that rate... I'll give a final stat when i finish the puny mission.

Of course they may come in waves, so you may end up with more or less over a given period. (It could be this is what happened during the Thule sample.) I may end up with 1/10 in the end. But ~6k kills isn't too shabby of a sample size.

And i stick by my valuation of ~1 pec, at least on the intermediate term. I keep thinking there's going to be a short term spike but again most players interested in agi are also not in any hurry to actually apply the tokens.

 

[XeroX2]

Well I think it all depends on whether or not the mission is repeatable.... if it is repeatable I could imagine some wannabe uber pushing the price quite high to get the highest agi in game. However if it's not repeatable the 1pec or 1.1 sounds reasonable.

 

[Tepes]

At over 3k+ from 10k puny mission now. Do not envy puny hunters, returns are horrible, bones or no bones - lots of no looters and evaded shots. Saw people offering 2pec/bone with no particular success, I kept mine for now.

Also the 2 puny spawns are awful, the one in PA finally lost the robots but gained a snable infestation, the Icarus one is over hunted. Most of the time I spend running after mobs.

 

[Falagor]

100k mobs with 10 HP each is 1M hp. Not 100M.

Sorry for mistake . Well calculations are still good (and mistake was only typo) and cost to get 10k bones is about 3.5k peds if they drop 1/10.

Pretty confident about my ~1/9 figure from ordinary Camp Icarus punies (bery and caud). I've looted over 700 myself at approximately that rate... I'll give a final stat when i finish the puny mission.
(...)

I you are right about 1/9 then the cost to get 10k bones is aout 3.2k - still quite much .

Well I think it all depends on whether or not the mission is repeatable.... if it is repeatable I could imagine some wannabe uber pushing the price quite high to get the highest agi in game. However if it's not repeatable the 1pec or 1.1 sounds reasonable.

Exactly this one.

I am really torn about this:

• if it is repetable - cool, many newbies will have the option to get some markup loot and the price would stabilese soon. But... it seems that there would be absolulty no agi cap at all. Also any player that got their agi by intense skilling/grinding iron mission and choosing agi may feel bad now if this is possible.
• if its not repetable - well then its nice way to bump your agi +1 but there will not be much demand for the bones after all and after a while noone will need them.

Falagor

 

[Audrey Cheerful]

I tried buying Caly Bone Samples for 2 PECs a piece for a while at Camp Icarus. Only two people sold some to me, one 15 pieces and one 85 pieces. In the end I gave them about 3 PECs a piece. At this point buying the samples doesn't seem to be a viable option.

 

[Rumsponge]

So, now we have people paying 1 PEC and one guy paying 5 PEC. For me, I just don't care enough to pay 500 PED for one point of agility. I got myself an Opallo and a Falx sword, both with good tiering rates, and I've been having fun looting my own. Every once in a while, I'll help out a new player and buy theirs for the 5 PECs, but it's usually a dozen or so here and there. Now that I have things figured out, I can snag a couple hundred a night. We'll see whether I get my 10000 first, or if I hit tier 10 on the Falx first.

At least it breaks up the monotony.

 

[Tepes]

I got myself an Opallo and a Falx sword, both with good tiering rates, and I've been having fun looting my own. [..] We'll see whether I get my 10000 first, or if I hit tier 10 on the Falx first.

Heh forgot about my 2 falx swords with nice tiers. At 2.92 pec decay, and with a good chance of killing the puny in one swing (or finishing it with a scorpion/rubio) it might be quite nice.