Suggestion: BP and cleanup revamp (Craft 2.0)

Msturlese

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i reached about level 40 in craft so far from the top clickers but i noticed several severe errors in the procedures
1. there are "DEAD ENDS", all geotrek BP are not craftable anymore
2. mechanomatrix were abandoned in v15 but still are part of the "adjustment" formula in ithaca
3. we loot "cause upgrade (L)" BP that produce a garbace item that is useless in game
4. there are too many ores, and too many enmatters

we need a "tier system" in crafting (it formally exists)
if we sort the BPs by LEVEL in the terminal we see "level" of them
i have access to level 12 BPs that are about 50 skill to use

my idea:
1. each "tier" or "level" of BP uses a specific enmatter, a specific ore... that would reduce "universe" items to 12 different resources per kind.
2. we have caly (monria, cp, foma included) cyrene arkadia NI toulan, RT.... 6 planet... 18 resource shared one specific, can be the ones already in the welding wire
3. remove all the bullshit cocktails in RT and put universe wide enmatter thene, remove all "music stones" from rt and put useable minerals too
4. ofc remove the stupid barrier of space (can just add a universal auction
5. remove the stupid wave system, change to fixed percentage of chance to loot each resource, are 12, decrease for higher level ones to make higher more desiderable items scarce... make a simple puyramif of chance, ranging from 20% of lysterium (used for level 1 items) to 2% of redulite (used for level 12 items). that means that rising ability and gaining access to better mining lead to more MU naturally, base it on mining skill so that they have some impact, like actual looter works.
6. components aswell use same resources for same "level".

benefits
1. huge increase in economy, less garbage in storage, easyer access to items
2. growing craft lead to use better resources to manufacture better items
3. better items at higher level have some sense... i mean enhancers use same pyrite for all 10 level.. it is really silly.. enhancers level 1 should use lysterium level 10 should use redulite, no imbalance, higher level items require harder resource,... yes, enh tier 1.2.3 woudl cost less.. and become cheap for (L) item users (rarely an armatrix goes over tier 4)... but the chepaer level 1...3 for UL users would face a 500% for enh10... so POWER would have a cost, and overall it is same as actual for T10 users

less garbage in storage (rhyme)
more chances to sink items
cleanup of non-clickable bps (revamp formula and make geotrek craftable again or remove)
new market for robot cubes being again craftable the (L) items to adjust in ithaca
RT would become interesting again with good items craftable with simpler materials


most of all rationalize a psycho system and create sinking items chances

CRAFT is the real engine of the game, having a better craft will lead to useable (L) items and a use for the huge amount of loot

(i woudl add
multicraft for components (ranging from 2 to 5 craft per success click based on crafting skill for the chance to obtain a multicraft)

and chances to get a "better quality" item, like a adj, imp, mod, aug, perf armatrix in the craft, each one with better stats
this would lead also UL users to consider to use them... in my idea a higher quality craft should have apart a better bullet composition (normal armatrix has 7.5% impact on bullet, like 6% for adj, 4.5% for imp, 3% for mod. 2% for aug, 1% for perfected) making them last much more, also 1 level of power more each tier, adj LR40 is like a lr45 normal, and so on, with a perfected leading to 25 level more, so that a ler40 is like a lr65... also add 7.5% more eff each level with a "perfect craft" 35 eff more than nromal (around 95%).

this would make armatrix great again, create a "craft 2.0" is easy... keep success chances like they are now, 42% for done craft, asss to each level of crafting ability a 0.1% chance for better quality of items with a 10% better chance at craft level 100 (there are FEW level 100 crafters in armatrix and components :)

this would lead for sure to revamp the profession create demand, create MU.
(the fixed percent chance in mining table would also remove wave effect, the more you drop the more you loot, remove server limitation on resource, just bomb and you are sure to average to forecast percentage of each items in say 10k bombs)

let the flame burn, kill the idea with adverse effects i dont see
 
Interesting
 
No.

All that needs to be done is drop BPs in loot and in vendors instead of items directly.

Nothing else needs to change.

Everything should be gated behind a Blueprint.

Also add more players to game.

That is all.
 
No.

All that needs to be done is drop BPs in loot and in vendors instead of items directly.
man, maybe you did not notiucve.. but vendor has level 1 5 dps items...
anything over initial items is crafted or looted already
cant be fully crafted due to the fact that we need some "premade items" (all ISIS , MF chips, ozpyin, herman, chikara, and similar small items ... well there are 7700 and seiresx also in drop so the weapons are not too common but cover the need in loot.
crafting all would make some players life hard to restock a (L) weapon for a hunt run.
more craft yes, all craft is posing too many barriers but generally speaking it is loot sink so OK
 
i reached about level 40 in craft so far from the top clickers but i noticed several severe errors in the procedures
1. there are "DEAD ENDS", all geotrek BP are not craftable anymore
2. mechanomatrix were abandoned in v15 but still are part of the "adjustment" formula in ithaca
3. we loot "cause upgrade (L)" BP that produce a garbace item that is useless in game
4. there are too many ores, and too many enmatters

I think you mean geotrek "weapon" BPs. Some of them can still be crafted, but most not. 1, 2 and 3 above are really all the same thing; it's commonly referred to as "broken loot", meaning things that don't drop anymore or things that drop but can no longer be used as intended when first released. This problem plagues all professions to a greater or lesser extent, one famous example of broken loot in hunting is the Smuggler armor on Arkadia that was supposed to drop in the warehouses but never did for many many years, except for maybe a few parts. But Broken Loot is for sure a bigger issue in the crafting profession now because it has never really been cleaned up before. So yes, there is a major clean up of the Crafting profession that is way overdue.

4 is something that the community was complaining a lot about like 10-12 years ago and MA's solution was to "re-use" many resources and looted items as part of the materials of newly released BPs. For example, all of the "new" ArMatrix BPs that were released in 2017 and 2018 all use existing mats, no new resources or loots were introduced to the game for making these, that's 20 levels times 4 (guns), 9 levels times 2 (melee), plus all the amps, so 145 new BPs, all using existing resources and looted items. MA deserves a kudos for doing that imo. Not to mention the Gizmos which use a ton of looted Animal Oils to even get those BPs.


we need a "tier system" in crafting (it formally exists)
if we sort the BPs by LEVEL in the terminal we see "level" of them
i have access to level 12 BPs that are about 50 skill to use

my idea:
1. each "tier" or "level" of BP uses a specific enmatter, a specific ore... that would reduce "universe" items to 12 different resources per kind.
2. we have caly (monria, cp, foma included) cyrene arkadia NI toulan, RT.... 6 planet... 18 resource shared one specific, can be the ones already in the welding wire
3. remove all the bullshit cocktails in RT and put universe wide enmatter thene, remove all "music stones" from rt and put useable minerals too
4. ofc remove the stupid barrier of space (can just add a universal auction
5. remove the stupid wave system, change to fixed percentage of chance to loot each resource, are 12, decrease for higher level ones to make higher more desiderable items scarce... make a simple puyramif of chance, ranging from 20% of lysterium (used for level 1 items) to 2% of redulite (used for level 12 items). that means that rising ability and gaining access to better mining lead to more MU naturally, base it on mining skill so that they have some impact, like actual looter works.
6. components aswell use same resources for same "level".

1, 2, 3 and 6 would just make the game more generic, which is something the community started complaining about around 2018-2019 where every vu just seemed to make the professions more and more generic and therefore less interesting. I think the long-term solution to the issue of having too many different resources is to just gradually make them relevant again, as MA has been doing for the last decade as seen in the robot armor upgrades at ithaca (released ~12 years ago now) where each upgrade uses a crafted component and a crafted armor, which already existed. But they have to continue this. They haven't done this with the Spina mobs, those new BPs use almost exclusively Spina Carapaces, but hopefully they will continue to make old resources and loots relevant again with new uses for them, maybe some upgrade missions, new BPs, new uses like for example the trade-in of Triphased wires at RDI secret labs, etc...

4 is something that needs to happen for sure, but that's a different story, not related to crafting or resources, it's more of a auction/trading issue. MA promised us courier contracts when they launched Motherships and Privateers, like there are in EVE Online, but that has never happened. They say they still intend to fulfill their promise (see first AMA), but we are still waiting. For now, there are ways you can have mats shipped from other planets using the auction and pay only 2 PED to get in 12 hours. And you can use the auction to ship your own mats, but you need to know how to do that and MA hasn't made it very easy or intuitive but it can be done.

5 is interesting. There is definitely some work that needs to be done on Enhancer balancing for example, the use of Dianthus for all other weapon enhancers except damage is really lazy and stupid, these enhancers, skill mod, range, accuracy, economy need to use up different mats, the popularity of Accuracy or Economy all of a sudden just kills the opportunities that normally would exist with range or skill mod, so dumb...

benefits
1. huge increase in economy, less garbage in storage, easyer access to items
2. growing craft lead to use better resources to manufacture better items
3. better items at higher level have some sense... i mean enhancers use same pyrite for all 10 level.. it is really silly.. enhancers level 1 should use lysterium level 10 should use redulite, no imbalance, higher level items require harder resource,... yes, enh tier 1.2.3 woudl cost less.. and become cheap for (L) item users (rarely an armatrix goes over tier 4)... but the chepaer level 1...3 for UL users would face a 500% for enh10... so POWER would have a cost, and overall it is same as actual for T10 users

I also agree that using the exact same mined resources for 1-10 is a bit weird, but, since these Blueprints are UL and require a lot of work to raise the Success Rate, and they use a different Socket Component, which itself can and will have different markups over time, I'm ok with the way they are now. But it probably would be better if lets say 1-4 used Pyrite, and 5-7 used something else like maybe Light Liquid, and 8-10 used Antimagnetic Oil or some such rare resource associated with higher-level tiering.

less garbage in storage (rhyme)
more chances to sink items
cleanup of non-clickable bps (revamp formula and make geotrek craftable again or remove)
new market for robot cubes being again craftable the (L) items to adjust in ithaca
RT would become interesting again with good items craftable with simpler materials


most of all rationalize a psycho system and create sinking items chances

CRAFT is the real engine of the game, having a better craft will lead to useable (L) items and a use for the huge amount of loot

I feel similarly to you, I feel crafting is an important part of the game and that it has a lot of potential but I think MA looks at crafting differently. Probably because it pins avatars in one place and it's not very immersive overall, they don't really think it's an area of the game that they should expand or work on and instead choose to focus on Hunting because that is what >80% of players do and enjoy doing. I did a whole Poll here on PCF to try to make some suggestions which I think could help to address this issue, which you can see here:

What Changes & Improvements to ₡₹₳₣₸⟊₦₲ would you like most?


(i woudl add
multicraft for components (ranging from 2 to 5 craft per success click based on crafting skill for the chance to obtain a multicraft)

and chances to get a "better quality" item, like a adj, imp, mod, aug, perf armatrix in the craft, each one with better stats
this would lead also UL users to consider to use them... in my idea a higher quality craft should have apart a better bullet composition (normal armatrix has 7.5% impact on bullet, like 6% for adj, 4.5% for imp, 3% for mod. 2% for aug, 1% for perfected) making them last much more, also 1 level of power more each tier, adj LR40 is like a lr45 normal, and so on, with a perfected leading to 25 level more, so that a ler40 is like a lr65... also add 7.5% more eff each level with a "perfect craft" 35 eff more than nromal (around 95%).

this would make armatrix great again, create a "craft 2.0" is easy... keep success chances like they are now, 42% for done craft, asss to each level of crafting ability a 0.1% chance for better quality of items with a 10% better chance at craft level 100 (there are FEW level 100 crafters in armatrix and components :)

I think what you are trying to solve here is how to make Crafting Skills relevant again, which is a valid point because once a BP is maxed, skills lose their relevance completely. But again this is an issue that exists in all professions. Level 500 Hunters cannot leverage those skills in any way, there are no level 500 weapons yet. Level 100 miners are also left in the cold, with no tools at their level or end-game content. The situation is a bit less of an issue in hunting since MA has added a lot of higher-level content in the last few years, but it's still an issue. Sure God Save the Queen will keep them ubers busy for a bit but then what; MA needs to catch up.

But as far as given crafters more valuable ArMatrix weapons, we already have that in the form of high TIR number weapons.

And as far as making higher-level Crafting skills more relevant, I think MA needs to introduce some better tools, think loot 2.0 weapons but for crafters. This thread I posted is based on the concept of making the Crafting profession more interesting and giving professional crafters some end-game tools and items to strive for, which could solve many of the issues at once (crafting profession too boring, not immerssive enough, avatar stuck in one place, high skills not relevant, profession not dynamic, etc...)

this would lead for sure to revamp the profession create demand, create MU.
(the fixed percent chance in mining table would also remove wave effect, the more you drop the more you loot, remove server limitation on resource, just bomb and you are sure to average to forecast percentage of each items in say 10k bombs)

let the flame burn, kill the idea with adverse effects i dont see

There are a couple elephants that should be mentionned though:

1. Lately, MA seems to see the Crafting profession as just some side thing that hunters can access to add opportunities to their hunting endeavours. Several things point to this; the fact that they are now handing exceptional BPs to hunters directly, adding Gizmos to make skilling easier than ever, boosted BPs, etc... So if this is really the case, then I think any suggestions/requests to develop Crafting into a more robust and dynamic profession with end-game content and more relevance for high skills, is likely to fall on deaf ears and be futile.

2. With the number of Unlimited items that has been released in the last few years, crafted limited gear is becoming less and less relevant these days, and fast. If MA continues to release UL armor and weapons the way they have, and doesn't do anything about it, I fear that crafting of limited items is something that's just going to die eventually because no one will have any need for the items.
 
LOL, do you really imagine how much enhancers would cost if they use redulite?
And with current redulite supply, what would be it's mu?
And how much it would cost to level up BP if they use redulite?
It just end up noone using these enhancers, which use materials like redulite.
 
yes vut the fist levels would cost 110% so a total cost for the full strip is not different.
it is just an idea, i know very well my excel models
 
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yes vut the fist levels would cost 110% so a total cost for the full strip is not different.
it is just an idea, i know very well my excel models
Do you really know how enhancer crafting work if you say that?
110% is not possible at all with the way enhancer crafting work.
Even if average input price per click would be like 105%, enhancer price would be about 150%+ to break even.
 
Do you really know how enhancer crafting work if you say that?
110% is not possible at all with the way enhancer crafting work.
Even if average input price per click would be like 105%, enhancer price would be about 150%+ to break even.
allow me not to discuss crafting formula,
i just take note of your numbers.
Legends caught better my message and my idea.
i will stick to
"a cleanup is desirable"
peace
 
Enhancer "% product" vs "TT in" is very low (compared to other items), cannot be "cheated" with res, and has to bear "TT loss" + "MU in" weight in it.
Also it feels weird to have an item, with same effect and strength effect, at a different cost.
It would make sense if there would be an increase of strength effect with each tier:
Lowest and cheapest one would give 6%, and highest and most expensive one would give 15%.
This would also incentivize people to keep tiering (also, i think, would feel more rewarding). Hard to balance tho.
But, aside of ore/enmater diversification, it probably wouldnt do much. Pyrite cost would go down what others would go up.

"Make Armatrix great again" sounds awesome.
Efficiency improvement is a core of L vs UL problem that should be solved.

Adj/imp/mod/etc items been chance on drop will create MU, but:
1. It will be unreliable. And we already have it via "high TIR" and BP drops.
2. It will create pretty small added loot consumption (basically at the level of % drop for the rares).
3. Lack of special BP for it, will keep the BP pool with less useful staff. Unless it is cleared from the dead weights (as OP suggests).

Dont like the idea of skill tied to % proc chance.
1. Sets new crafters so much behind that is impossible to join the prof without been instantly doomed (exactly whats happening in hunting rn).
2. Been able to craft "everything" is a well balanced and strong edge that receives way too little credit for what it is.
3. Will not add any MU to the item. New costs of production will be calculated, according to a new system (and high level crafter as a base). Margins will be adjusted to the old levels.

Not a fan of oversimplified formulas. It kills all the "magic" of the craft and makes it dull. It would become more storage efficient, but that would destroy the need for all that extra loot you have to buy now while accounting for higher variance.
 
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i agree on some points. there are too many dead ends in crafting. and RT crafting needs a BIG overhaul to bring it up to snuff. i don't have a huge problem with the current ore/enmatter situation except in so far as some are absolutely essential while some others are cube food.
 
also there are some issues with BP's simply not being available. I.E. there were perhaps less than a dozen copies of a BP ever dropped, and it's a critical portion of something. again, I discovered last night that there are RT instances that have as a ticket/key to get in, something that is constructed using a BP of which there are (it is said) only two known copies. this sort of thing happens on other planets too. i have run into guns on ark that require components from VERY rare bp's, where i eventually just had to give up and buy a copy from one of the few people who owned them. but some BP's simply do not drop anymore. creates an issue that gets worse over time. people quit playing or even pass away and then everything gets harder to manage.
 
I discovered last night that there are RT instances that have as a ticket/key to get in, something that is constructed using a BP of which there are (it is said) only two known copies
A lot of that on ROCKtropia, but then we do have player-owned instances. If the instance is player-owned, then only the owner of the instance will ever get the blueprint for the key and the BP is unique. For all others though, that are not player-owned, I fully agree the BPs should drop.... they can be rare, but having more keys available would only mean more dungeon runs from more people... which would be pretty cool ;D
 
the concept of player-owned instances i have heard of but don't really understand.
So shop owners on RT have (or at least had when they had a dev team...) the opportunity to buy a dungeon.

Devs would create the dungeon according to whatever specifications and you`d pay PED to own the key BP for that dungeon. Only the player who bought the dungeon can craft the keys for it.

AFAIK most of those instances are located inside shops, but some older RT players could give you more details on them

Then its the dungeon owner's responsability to craft keys, sell them and advertise the dungeon. Some dungeons have incentives, see Camp Crunk Cloth Crate instance for example, only Theunicate has the BP and you will find keys at his stall at the Camp Crunk TP. He setup a website where you can find events and objectives. https://shield-corp.weebly.com/camp-crunk-cloth-crate.html Whatever you pay for keys, it goes to him as he is the dungeon owner so only he has the keys for it
 
man i wish there were a website that consolidated all this info lol. thanks
 
man i wish there were a website that consolidated all this info lol. thanks
i believe it was all on ROCKtropia's main website before they kind of went another direction with the crypto crap and changed all links... it wouldn't surprise me if it was still somewhere hidden on that website.

You will find all available key BPs here:

You will find available dungeon chest loot here:


And on the main website page, if you scroll down to "Our virtual world destinations" you will find all theme parks within ROCKtropia with a brief description. ROCKtropia's website is actually pretty decent if only we could get rid of all the fluff and BS related to AmeVRica and all that cr*p ;-)

You will notice the ambition was bigger then than it is today for the planet haha :ROFLMAO:
 
I see some points very much in the vicinity of legitimate concerns here, but many appear to be framed in light of a misguided philosophy which doesn't mesh well with Entropia's. It would be excellent, for example, if MindArk took less extreme measures when balancing drop rates, modifying proportions but never yanking anything out of the pool completely, such that all materials needed to click blueprints were guaranteed to remain attainable.

However, when we jump to the proposal of removing blueprints from the game (or revamping ingredient lists, which is functionally equivalent to removing blueprints from the game and creating new ones), we acutely risk overfitting the game design trajectory to one or a few unmarked user stories at the expense of a wide array of ex post marked use cases, both actual and potential. An Entropian might choose to own a blueprint because of an immediate desire to click it. However, an Entropian might also choose to own a blueprint to increase their available options years into the future when the blueprint may be more expensive, to hedge against market risks in other activities they engage in (i.e., a miner who targets Garcen Greece might want a specific blueprint which is good to click while the Market Value of Garcen Greece is low, because the attractiveness of clicking it is inversely correlated with their main activity), as a collector to occupy their books, as a property owner to display as decoration, for a wide array of case-specific sentimental reasons, as an investment, for data collection, and/or for many other a purpose.

It is not properly the role of developers to act on value judgments or cultivate markedness over some subset of the opportunity sets afforded to Entropians, by narrowly-tailoring game design decisions to optimize for one or a few dominant use cases. Rather, it is to make Entropia's strategy spaces open-ended, rich, and exploration-incentivizing, in order to expand those opportunity set as far as possible, and leave the roles of optimizing, synergizing, and constructing meaning from those opportunities to the Entropian. All this talk of removing, streamlining, simplifying, not even attempting to improve the wave system or replace it with a better timing mechanic and just throwing up our hands to an agency-nihilistic RNG-fest, labeling items as useless garbage because we haven't yet imagined their uses, and axing space on the ground of "of course" all feel like appeals to radically shrink the number, cardinality, and structural composability of Entropians' opportunity sets, with the hope of making things a bit more pleasant for a few of the most common user experiences Entropians tend to create (or, in the worst case, are borderline-coerced into by incentive misalignments in the current Planet Partner paradigm). This is a very un-Entropian trade-off, which should be made rarely and with great caution, when the cost-benefit ratio is extreme. Otherwise, the worry is that these types of proposals are band-aid workarounds (albeit to legitimate concerns) which might also accelerate broader problems in Entropia's high-level game design trajectory.
 
Those BPs, we are talking about here, are dead and bear 0 weight of what you are implying.
Eather its because mats dont drop for them at all (were removed from the drop tables / removed mobs that drop them).
Or because items are impossible to sell, which makes it gambling (aka clicking), and not crafting.
 
Those BPs, we are talking about here, are dead and bear 0 weight of what you are implying.
Eather its because mats dont drop for them at all (were removed from the drop tables / removed mobs that drop them).
Or because items are impossible to sell, which makes it gambling (aka clicking), and not crafting.
they are not dead and do bear weight, as they also give access to some resources that are in turn used by some more BPs...

Marie brought a very interesting take on the topic with which I have to say I very much agree with :D it might be easy to say they are "dead" and bear "0 weight" but do they really? what data do we have to show for it?
 
they are not dead and do bear weight, as they also give access to some resources that are in turn used by some more BPs...

Marie brought a very interesting take on the topic with which I have to say I very much agree with :D it might be easy to say they are "dead" and bear "0 weight" but do they really? what data do we have to show for it?
Right click on the item.
Market value.
 
How many items do you craft and sell?
p2p is quite behind AH sells for nearly everything, except for amps and enhancers.
yesterday i sold zombie eye to someone actively seeking it in RT trade chat for 110%

market value shows only 100.5% for the year or decade, nothing else.

does it mean it never happened?
 
yesterday i sold zombie eye to someone actively seeking it in RT trade chat for 110%

market value shows only 100.5% for the year or decade, nothing else.

does it mean it never happened?
Its because its used on the item that actually sells.
I do buy items, from other planets, with no yearly sells.
Its different from what we are talking about here.
 
Its because its used on the item that actually sells.
I do buy items, from other planets, with no yearly sells.
Its different from what we are talking about here.
exactly my point, this is exactly why we cant just get rid of something because there is nothing in market data... you just said it yourself people do look after things even if market data doesn't always reflect that fact
 
exactly my point, this is exactly why we cant just get rid of something because there is nothing in market data... you just said it yourself people do look after things even if market data doesn't always reflect that fact
There is no point. BPs we are talking about here, again, dont use any items at all for the reasons described above.
There is nothing wrong with been niche and rare crafts. But there are hundreds of BPs that are not that.
 
There is no point. BPs we are talking about here, again, dont use any items at all for the reasons described above.
There is nothing wrong with been niche and rare crafts. But there are hundreds of BPs that are not that.
for now... but they are still in the game. maybe they belong. maybe they dont.thing is we dont know whats coming in a month, a year, 5 years...
 
for now... but they are still in the game. maybe they belong. maybe they dont.thing is we dont know whats coming in a month, a year, 5 years...
So you feel the need to keep hundreds of useless BPs in the pool instead of releasing 1-2 in the same patch that new item does. Do you think its reasonable?
EL doesnt work and i cant see how much you craft. Just trying to understand if you actually have to deal with this, or its all based on some theories.
 
So you feel the need to keep hundreds of useless BPs in the pool instead of releasing 1-2 in the same patch that new item does. Do you think its reasonable?
EL doesnt work and i cant see how much you craft. Just trying to understand if you actually have to deal with this, or its all based on some theories.
i do not craft, only theories. maybe they should be gone. but theres a chance that maybe they dont. its just not something that can be decided on a whim
 
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