Can we help?

Menace

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Rob Menace Klok
Is there ANYTHING that the community can do to help out with VU's? And I'm not talking "Please be patient" because that's always the scenario... I mean REALLY help! Does MA need a financial boost? Maybe we can all throw an extra $10 into the game x1000's of players that would really cover some overtime? Maybe a few of the experienced players can help with some coding? Or "proof read" (lack of better term) MA's coding before a VU (obviously not loot system stuff) and offer suggestions?

C'mon guys/gals... there's got to be something... some way..... we can work together so EVERY MAJOR VU doesn't end up a train wreck. Obviously MindArk has some problems somewhere because it's always the same scenario. How about being straight up with the community. Maybe we can help?

Menace
 
You know, if you really believed a financial boost would solve the problems you are seeing, I think you would have been depositing maybe, an extra $10 a month since that vu 12.10 nerf in your sig.

All I see here is hypocrisy and an opportunity to complain taken full advantage of.
 
You know, if you really believed a financial boost would solve the problems you are seeing, I think you would have been depositing maybe, an extra $10 a month since that vu 12.10 nerf in your sig.

All I see here is hypocrisy and an opportunity to complain taken full advantage of.

Wouldn't expect anything less from you Magyar....

Point I'm trying to make is this.... instead of keeping the root of the problems "hush hush".... man up and be transparent about things.... maybe then the community could help in some manner. I'll throw money into the game right now if the company wasn't running such a gong show.

Players STOP depositing because of 2 reasons...

1.) they START profiting
2.) they finally have "had enough" of the bullshit and decide to do what ever it takes to break even and play for free.

Menace
 
Wouldn't expect anything less from you Magyar....

Point I'm trying to make is this.... instead of keeping the root of the problems "hush hush".... man up and be transparent about things.... maybe then the community could help in some manner. I'll throw money into the game right now if the company wasn't running such a gong show.

Players STOP depositing because of 2 reasons...

1.) they START profiting
2.) they finally have "had enough" of the bullshit and decide to do what ever it takes to break even and play for free.

Menace

Fact: You say they need money.

Fact: You stopped depositing.

Solution: Start depositing.

It's really that simple. I mean, you can justify your mentality any way you want, but if youre going around saying an effort that you have a problem with is failing because of a lack of finance, and you are in the same breath unwilling to finance it yourself, for whatever reason, guess what that makes you.

As for not expecting any less of me, I'm glad I could help you sort out this minor logical problem.
 
You know, if you really believed a financial boost would solve the problems you are seeing, I think you would have been depositing maybe, an extra $10 a month since that vu 12.10 nerf in your sig.

All I see here is hypocrisy and an opportunity to complain taken full advantage of.
Couldn't of said this any better myself, props magyar.
 
Fact: Hunting is terrible atm.
Fact: Crafting is impossible atm.
Fact: Economy is shots to bits.
Fact: Loss, after loss, after loss....

The only help I recommend is an arrest warrant and/or a hostile takeover. :mad:
 
Crafting is not a loss, works fine for me....
there is a difference between crafting and gambling... if you slide the bar to condition, for a chance at a BIG score 3% of the time, your a gambler...
as for the economy, there are always good deals, and high MU on items... fads come and go... things do change
 
Is there ANYTHING that the community can do to help out with VU's?

You could reduce the amount of game-bashing on the forums. It would greatly increase the number of new players in game, increase MA's income and allow them to improve their programming and testing. It would do a lot more than any $10 depo.
 
Fact: You say they need money.

Fact: You stopped depositing.

Solution: Start depositing.

It's really that simple. I mean, you can justify your mentality any way you want, but if youre going around saying an effort that you have a problem with is failing because of a lack of finance, and you are in the same breath unwilling to finance it yourself, for whatever reason, guess what that makes you.

As for not expecting any less of me, I'm glad I could help you sort out this minor logical problem.

*Applauds the irrefutable logic of Magyars post*
 
I know that I can't play well for the next few days, and maybe cos of that some L items I use often seem to have dropped in price.

I deposited about 150 usd in the pass couple of days to buy a bunch of stuff and a CLD. I will probably deposit more if I see other stuff I want at a cheaper rate.

But activitieswise, which generate decay and stuff? Not going to happen till I know I can stay online for at least 2 hours without a server crash or a DC.

When servers are stable, I will finally start hunting and going on other activities which generate decay.

Anyway there are enough techies here that we can probably advice MA on various issues if they just ask for suggestions and ideas on problems they are facing or things they have little knowledge of.
 
Is there ANYTHING that the community can do to help out with VU's? And I'm not talking "Please be patient" because that's always the scenario... I mean REALLY help! Does MA need a financial boost? Maybe we can all throw an extra $10 into the game x1000's of players that would really cover some overtime? Maybe a few of the experienced players can help with some coding? Or "proof read" (lack of better term) MA's coding before a VU (obviously not loot system stuff) and offer suggestions?

C'mon guys/gals... there's got to be something... some way..... we can work together so EVERY MAJOR VU doesn't end up a train wreck. Obviously MindArk has some problems somewhere because it's always the same scenario. How about being straight up with the community. Maybe we can help?

Menace

The answer to these questions is to have an open-beta 2-3 weeks prior to the release date. Let the players do what they do best: find things that are wrong. They ultimately will do it for free and you won't have downtime. You would have been able to load test your new VM servers and all these bugs would have been raised.

VUs will never be stable until you do the above.
 
Göteborgare is perfect... so the problem have to be connected to a non Göteborgare employee...probably an Stockholmare.

solution: fire the Stockholmare.
 
If you are a hunter, take the cheapest possible gear you can find and hunt
as much as possible, and when a bug or similar occur, try to write down
all info about what happen (= the way you experienced it) in a support case,
that is short, simple but yet as detailed as possible. :)

Try to play the game as you should play it in a normal day, but keep it as
cheap as possible, so if you lose some peds, it shouldn't matter.
 
im making my contribution I know that
 
Fact: You say they need money.

Fact: You stopped depositingtheSolution: Start depositing.

It's really that simple. I mean, you can justify your mentality any way you want, but if youre going around saying an effort that you have a problem with is failing because of a lack of finance, and you are in the same breath unwilling to finance it yourself, for whatever reason, guess what that makes you.

As for not expecting any less of me, I'm glad I could help you sort out this minor logical problem.

I'm not saying anything is failing due to lack of finance. I'm saying... "If it is, be honest and ya might be surprised at how the community steps up."

By the way oh great intelligent one..... Why quote my post yet not read it? I never stated i refuse to deposit. I simply havent had a reason to deposit. And for all i know... MA's problems may not be financial at all.... Might be management issues.

Next time dont jump the gun and get so excited about putting the elusive Menace in his place on the forum until youre sure youve read, understood, and re-read my posts. This will prevent your posts from coming across like MA's VU's.

Menace
 
Next time dont jump the gun and get so excited about putting the elusive Menace in his place on the forum until youre sure youve read, understood, and re-read my posts. This will prevent your posts from coming across like MA's VU's.

Hey man, I'm just pointing out a flaw. I dont really care if its Menace who wrote the post or not. I understood perfectly well what you wrote, and I thought it was silly.

Why is it OK for you to think what someone does is silly, but not OK for someone to think what you do is? You dont seem to have any problem criticising others.

Shut up and take your own medicine. :girl: All in good fun. Nothing personal intended. I dont usually even look at names when I make a reply. Could be a friend. Could be a foe. Doesnt really matter to me.
 
Point I'm trying to make is this.... instead of keeping the root of the problems "hush hush".... man up and be transparent about things.... maybe then the community could help in some manner.

Apart from the silly word banter about what's in someone's siggy and whether he should depo or not, the above point is well made. Transparency leads to more trust. Right now the empire is crumbling.. check out mondays cld payout for the latest all time low. Problems are stacking up. The message that the crafting system is working as intended does not help, because we all know it isn't. Promising more stability and doing the opposite does not help.
there should be a beta server for all future major vu's. And Mindark should tell us their coding difficulties eg:

'we would like to inform the community that our major programmer has found a job elsewhere. We are trying to maintain the same level of professionalism, but to be honest it is a big gap to fill'
 
You could reduce the amount of game-bashing on the forums. It would greatly increase the number of new players in game, increase MA's income and allow them to improve their programming and testing. It would do a lot more than any $10 depo.

Translation:

Give up our right to an "opinion" about the product that MindArk delivers to us because it's considered by some to be whining, or complaining, or "game bashing" and MindArk doesn't deserve to have legitimate feedback or suggestions on how to make their product potentially better.

Post more positive content and don't bring up the issues, because then potential new players will think we have a good thing going and they'll deposit and give MindArk more income and an opportunity to figure out what they need to do to improve our universe.

Really
?

Before the MS9 bashers come out of the virtual closet (and they normally do), I'll say first that I have written a LOT of positive things about this universe, and about the good things that I have experienced across many EU-related websites, in EU magazines, and at my own EU media website for 8-1/2 years, so ...

I feel that I have made my contributions in very positive and genuine ways, beginning at this very site when it was originally the first Entropia Forum, and I have a lot of experience in our universe and what many of us have been through during its growing pains, and it hasn't been all bad, however ...

I also feel there's an obligation to tell the truth about our experiences and not give a false impression. There used to be a lot more of us in this universe, and throughout the years we have given suggestions and ideas ad nauseum about what would make our game-play better, and while some have been implemented, MA seems to continue making poor management decisions that have both short-term and long-term negative effects - the evidence is clearly out there.

You would think that after 10 years, they would have learned not to repeat mistakes, but they do, and while we understand there will always be bugs, I think it's safe to say that we shouldn't expect old (supposedly fixed) bugs to come back, nor the level of bugs that we're experiencing most of the time.

This community has always asked what we can do to help, and I applaud Menace for putting it out there again and presenting it with truth, instead of sugar-coating the obvious. MA has issues, and we have some brilliant people in our community who have reached out in one way or another to offer assistance without MA having to give away the big secrets, but they give the impression that they know what's best, yet that's not the result we get - or is it - meaning, their best.

I really don't understand why some choose to think we're whining or game bashing when we're telling the truth. I'll be the first to say there's definitely good about the game, but I'll also be vocal when I feel the need to be. This recent VU is yet another perfect example (maybe more so) of just how much quality control is NOT in place.

My suggestion to MindArk ... prioritize ... one of these days there will be an RCE competitor, and it'll be too late - you also won't be feeling so secure anymore, and more people will be leaving who want not only more bang for their buck, but demand game stability in order for you to get their business.

There's a social psychology to game play ... it's time to wake up.


To Neil
... nothing personal at all, because you're a good guy, but sometimes I think you (as well as others) either have blinders on, or consciously choose to look the other way, and I'm not sure why that is.
 
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Is there ANYTHING that the community can do to help out with VU's?

I don't have much money (I guess the withdrawers over time has been lucky about that), but I could spend some hours trying to find the bugs during evenings and weekends (weekends if planned).

As for money, I'd like to support the game (bought two CLDs for that reason, for instance). Again, sponsor the game, as I'm not rich I can't afford to sponsor the monthly withdrawers. And the recent deals (like Monria) is way outside my budget.
 
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If you are a hunter, take the cheapest possible gear you can find and hunt
as much as possible, and when a bug or similar occur, try to write down
all info about what happen (= the way you experienced it) in a support case,
that is short, simple but yet as detailed as possible. :)

True that. Better bug reports could help a lot.

It's however also true that many people who don't make software in their everyday lives simply do not know how to write a proper bug report ("what 'steps to reproduce'? are we going to dance?"). MA could help them to learn by putting up a structured bug report form and some instructions as to what matters and what doesn't.
 
A few years ago, I signed up with one of those internet market research companies, which make you do surveys for points, which can then be swapped for... something.

Today, I -for the first time- logged into this site to check the rewards, and I made a "withdrawal" to paypal of my earnings. That money will go into a deposit as soon as things get stable.
 
The community is elping since day one, telling what needs to be fixed and what is missing. Mind Ark has proven not to be the best listener and setting their own sails. As rare means winning the lotery irl, soon means years.

Also the whole system is pretty out dated, it should be in the cloud, one system to work on, so not 100's of different system setups and software incompatiballities, just one.
It would also mean that the avarage Joe without a master game machine would have acces to play entropia.
 
I also feel there's an obligation to tell the truth about our experiences and not give a false impression.

I completely agree. However, I would also say that focusing on the negative "feedback", which many (including you) have been doing lately, is not telling the whole truth about the game.

If players gave balanced feedback I'd be happy and our prospective players would get a better picture of the game. However, it doesn't work that way... a positive feature/bug fix, if even mentioned on the forum, gets one or two posts and is forgotten after about 5 minutes. Every negative feature/bug gets rehashed over and over in increasing vehemence on the forums. All people read about now is the horrible VU and how MA's QA is going down the tubes. Nobody mentions that the past couple years have seen great strides in bug fixes and improvements of all kinds. Entropia delivers an amazing product. Over the past few years we've gone three steps forward and one step backward but nobody remembers the steps forward.

The truth is that most of those players posting flaming rage posts on the forums ironically enjoy the game (or they wouldn't keep playing). Yet prospective players read these posts and run for their lives.

It's a battle against human nature... we naturally tend to focus on the negative much more than the positive... after all, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I, too, focus on the negative too much.

So when I am encouraging people to balance their criticism, it's a call to tell the whole truth rather than an attempt at censorship.
 
True that. Better bug reports could help a lot.

It's however also true that many people who don't make software in their everyday lives simply do not know how to write a proper bug report ("what 'steps to reproduce'? are we going to dance?").

For a normal player to try to iron the server crashes/disconnects, I guess you pretty much would need a server area by yourself, equipped with all facilities (auction, crafting machines, mobs, mining areas etc). If you're on the same server area as 500 else, you have no clue what happened really unless you did something just before the crash, and it happened more than once so you can reproduce it.

One way to figure this out would be to strip selected facilities from server areas, for instance:
- No auction at port atlantis [bummer for crafters in PA mall but I guess not much to do :/ This server really crashes too much]
- No crafting at cape Corinth
- No mining at Ithaca
etc.
 
For a normal player to try to iron the server crashes/disconnects, I guess you pretty much would need a server area by yourself, equipped with all facilities (auction, crafting machines, mobs, mining areas etc).

One thing that can be done to help newbies until the server issues get fixed is to help them get out of PA server. Get a crew together and fly helicopters of newbies to other areas with smallish mobs that they can sweat etc. PA crashes constantly while several other servers are stable.
 
One thing people can do is help people (newbies) get out of PA server. Get a crew together and fly helicopters of newbies to other areas with smallish mobs that they can sweat etc.

One thing is that there is a nice spawn of Shinkiba near Cape Corinth... On the other hand, that server crashes to 5 minutes after people from PA server has arrived there :/

If the mobs at Gateway/Thule drops bones, then I think gateway area is the best for the moment. Risk with any other area is that if you get enough people to it it will start to go jojo to.

Problem with the PA area, at least as it was yesterday, is that you can't fly out of it if it crashes within 5 minutes...

Was there puny mobs added to some other area (outside PA server)?
 
One thing is that there is a nice spawn of Shinkiba near Cape Corinth... On the other hand, that server crashes to 5 minutes after people from PA server has arrived there :/

If the mobs at Gateway/Thule drops bones, then I think gateway area is the best for the moment. Risk with any other area is that if you get enough people to it it will start to go jojo to.

Problem with the PA area, at least as it was yesterday, is that you can't fly out of it if it crashes within 5 minutes...

Was there puny mobs added to some other area (outside PA server)?

There are punies in the swamp near Fort Isis (that's already another server, not PA/Icarus one). The mob mix is quite weird there, however, and includes high agro mobs (snarksnots).

The best noob-friendly alternative to PA and Corinth is probably Fort Argus with its snable herds. (if you don't go wrong way running into argos)

There is also a big spawn of small snables and shinkibas SE of Fort Medusa, but it's almost a kilometer from TP.
 
For a normal player to try to iron the server crashes/disconnects, I guess you pretty much would need a server area by yourself, equipped with all facilities (auction, crafting machines, mobs, mining areas etc). If you're on the same server area as 500 else, you have no clue what happened really unless you did something just before the crash, and it happened more than once so you can reproduce it.

One way to figure this out would be to strip selected facilities from server areas, for instance:
- No auction at port atlantis [bummer for crafters in PA mall but I guess not much to do :/ This server really crashes too much]
- No crafting at cape Corinth
- No mining at Ithaca
etc.

Even small simple hints can help sometimes when trying to figure things out,
so a support case template could help them to get one step closer to a solution. :)
 
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