FYI: Captain Profession

Well MindArk told me in their support reponse to discuss it on the forum, so YOU ARE WRONG. And with any luck you'll be wrong about everything else too.

<removed>

You are wrong :lolup:
It is foolish to create threads and contact the support for the rollback for thousands players, because several players are unhappy, but you can ask support to stop events with free skilling.
 
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People who made something out of event, skills, ped, or just fun will say all is ok.

People who lost skill advantage, value of skills, or couldn't hunt at event will say things should be changed/rolled back.

Usually same when a bug hits PE and now EU, when bug is advantage to player they don't report, when someone affected by it finds out they report. The thing is now though after seeing nothing done time and time again people just abuse bugs until they are closed, the past has made it that those who lost out before not taking advantage, now do due to past. Colouring, melee, pvp space and planet, etc etc etc etc...... always has been left and people abusing left with gains, difference this time is that many many people used and not the "lucky" few.

The bugs that i reported and could have taken massive advantage in past (such as carrying storage in lootable pvp - no risk), got no thanks from MA and was one who lost out. I reported map speed bug and case was closed with support just saying can't comment..... have got to point that may as well join and use bugs, no thanks for reporting, lose out for not abusing. I guess many have come to same conclusions.

Don't blame the players blame the game.
 
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back on topic :)

Following last weekend's Hogglo event that resulted in many people gaining skills related to the Captain profession at an increased rate, and thus laying to waste all the time and effort I and others had put into Captain over the last couple of years (for instance, actually piloting in space to add to Spacecraft Pilot skill which in turn influences Captain) I sent a support case in search of clarifications.

I hadn't planned to post about this support case on the forum, however MindArk's response has pretty much told me to do so:

Dear MindArk Support,

It has been brought to my attention that a recent hunting event on Calypso on Hogglo Diablos has been giving out free skills to participants who had used vehicles to hover a certain height above the event zone. These skills were related to the Captain profession - a profession that I have spent many hours over the last few years trying to develop.

The people who have gained these skills at this event are at a huge advantage in the Captain profession compared to those who were not. I feel that this is a smack in the face to those of us who have tried to develop Captain through piloting in space.

This situation is all the more galling when people are crowing on the forums about going from (for example) level 10 to level 22 in Captain over the weekend. My level is 19 and has taken a long time to achieve, even with the help of chipping so perhaps you can appreciate my annoyance.

I wish to ask:
Was this an intentional feature, or was it a bug?

If this Captain-related skills "giveaway" was intentional then what does MindArk plan to do to compensate those of us who have taken the time to acquire these skills over several years only to be overtaken by people who saw an opportunity to gain free skills at a ridiculously easy rate compared to the likes of me and other space pilots?

If this was a bug that was not intended to happen like it did regarding these skills then will the abuser's skills be rolled back and accounts be suspended?

I eagarly await your response to my questions.

Regards,

Dusk.


And their response:

Hi Dusk,

Thank you for your support case.

We at support are currently not discussing this, we have a lot of support cases to get to and we cannot sit and give out information that everyone should have to each individual when they inquiry to support, you must understand what a massive increase in cases that would be.

Please direct these questions via the forums, we are sorry that we cannot give you the reply you wish but that we simply cannot do that from support at this time.

Kind regards,
Ulf | Entropia Universe Support


The first part I've emboldened, information that everyone should have. Really? That's why they've been silent again, as usual, when this sort of shit goes down.

As for the second bit that I've emboldened, well here we are. Let's start the conjecture because MindArk aren't giving anything away for the moment.:mad:
 
The situation covers far more areas of concern than simply any one oversight (or not an oversight).
It is about a whole chain of how things 'play out'.
Anybody who specialises in one area and invests a lot of resources into it should care about fairness, but then again, so should those who don't specialise because it is about the game environment in this RCE.

My current estimate is that something like 6 months to one year of pilot gains for a reasonably dedicated pilot on a skilling ship with a large rotating crew were grabbable in just one weekend (without skillpills even).

Early on in the development of space I asked MA support about having ships being continuously being beaten up in order to be repaired. Over the course of several replies I was basically told that intentionally taking damage to a vehicle on a planet was not considered ok, but that things in space were treated differently.

I realised that with the growing complexity of EU there were going to quite a few imbalances over time, so fairness becomes related more to what is known and what is not. As for this event, I saw it start on the Friday even and had a hunch that the skills were independent of the hit damage, so that repeated mobs of a nice high level might see people getting massive gains (even without possibly not even losing tt on their ships).

Do I think people were exploiting? Mostly no. It was not a hush-hush secret - it was many people taking advantage of a massive imbalance put in by MA, and taken to extremes (maybe intentionally) by minds at Calypso.

What is worse is the silence from MA so far. Even though I know how MA often doesn't react, I knew they already knew about event extremes from the less valuable, but still very useful, evade skilling from events. If things go to plan then there are big changes coming to space soon and the launch of compets. Of the two, the latter is the far bigger and more important one overall. How long will it be before we see an imbalancing catastrophe from a newly added pet type, or pet skill or or or? I want to have at least some faith that MA can make corrections after they make mistakes (we all know that they can make mistakes!).

Support says we should talk about it on the forums - here we are! Keep counting for those of you who feel the need.....

Edited for clarity...
 
What benefit does "Captain" profession endow one with?

Not the skills, the profession...

-kitch
 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?pli=1&key=0Aj1CPJcQncDndHF4X2I4aDB3blhFVWNpY2E3a1FUSWc#gid=0

9th February CLD payout was the highest at 4.27 since 10th November 2014.

And judging from:



There was a LOT of decay going on. So whilst I understand a couple of dozen players being upset about a number of people getting Spacecraft pilot skills for pretty much the first time, CLD owners, Mindark and most players benefited last weekend.

Also I note some of the posters who are unhappy in this thread were actually adding to their spacecraft pilot skill last weekend. Explain that one to me. :scratch2:
 
Also I note some of the posters who are unhappy in this thread were actually adding to their spacecraft pilot skill last weekend. Explain that one to me. :scratch2:

Because your damned if you do, and damned if you don't unfortunately. :(
 
/mod note/
Please keep your personal remarks about each other (and your ultimatums) to yourselves.
:topic:
 
Because your damned if you do, and damned if you don't unfortunately. :(

Aye it was a 'forced' skilling event due to the immense gains given out for next to nothing - had planned other stuff for the weekend and had to completely reschedule to keep up with everyone else.
But its not about us higher level players its about those in the early and mid levels which got completely screwed over by this event and if i would have to give up 400$ worth of skills i would do so to keep things right.

But its not about screwing those who spent their time on that event either, its about mindark finding a solution that this doesnt happen again or if it does that they can react to stop it way faster then they did in the past - if they cant afford own staff to monitor an event maybe they should offer arkadia some money to rent out one of their offical avatars to keep things right on calypso ;)

They got to come up with something to clearly value time and money spent of 'everyone' involved and make sure that certain avatar achievments still count something tomorrow.
 
I don't like what happened, but in the end I thought I'd be at so much of a disadvantage in space, I felt I had no other option but to click up a few skills too at the hogs.

So I added about 400 points to space pilot and space systems. Not much points but it almost wiped out my Quad even taking 1.0 damage. So there certainly was a cost involved for just a few hours at it.

Now here's a counter argument. I wasn't long ago I remember mother ship crews giving it large how they unlocked "avoidance" with not much space skilling, that as hunter took me "years" to acquire.

Then there's the crafters that spent years unlocking BPC, which is almost "free" with a bit of welding wire and a healing tool. Not to mention the engineering skill gains doing repairs.

I get somewhat slightly annoyed at arson chip owners with big tiers that were able to have access to such a chip at low levels, and unlock nearly all the MF unlocks in next to no time. Such skill takes years using normal attack chip routes.

I can literally list loads of examples how changes effect other peoples professions. Although with a lot of support skill most hunters will have a good 15+ captain levels anyway (maybe even more), it would only be noobs that saw huge changes.

What the space crews maybe should've done (and maybe they did, some anyhow), was see it as an opportunity to add to their own captain levels. that way nothing would've changed and you would've held onto your advantage.

But the point is, something new in game will f**k something else. That is EU.

Let's look at pet fighting coming up, I bet that will effect something on a huge scale. Maybe the hours I've spent skilling pets, will be wiped out in a few days of pet fights.

Get over it, move on.

Rick
 
I can literally list loads of examples how changes effect other peoples professions. Although with a lot of support skill most hunters will have a good 15+ captain levels anyway (maybe even more), it would only be noobs that saw huge changes.

What the space crews maybe should've done (and maybe they did, some anyhow), was see it as an opportunity to add to their own captain levels. that way nothing would've changed and you would've held onto your advantage.

But the point is, something new in game will f**k something else. That is EU.

Get over it, move on.

Rick
That's all well and good, except this was a short event that created this situation. Now as things turned out I wasn't available to be in game last weekend. As it was, I was alerted to the situation at around 7pm local time last Sunday evening. And even if I had been available, I would have ummed and ermed about joining in because I would have been concerned about exploiting and the consequences that can come with that.

The mention of BPC is a valid one. I will say this - I do a crafting run perhaps once every three months so that attribute has minimal interest for me. I find it odd that it is unlockable with repairing anyway.

Avoidance, as I understand it, is unlocked at level 25 Captain - a level that is (or rather was before last weekend) a high level to achieve (believe me, I've spent plenty of time in the pilot seat only to not get there yet).

Either way, the BPC and Avoidance are available to all still. The Captain skill increase appears to have been for a weekend only. Perhaps it will be repeated, perhaps not? We don't know because MindArk still haven't bothered to enlighten its playerbase.
 
As it was, I was alerted to the situation at around 7pm local time last Sunday evening. And even if I had been available, I would have ummed and ermed about joining in because I would have been concerned about exploiting and the consequences that can come with that.

That's how I felt "ummed and erred" all weekend, then I saw the whole universe was at it including many of the biggest and respected names in EU. So in the end I tried it out for a few points. What it did do is wipe out a ton of quads and slieps so it wasn't free by any standard.

Another interesting point (already made), was MA had a PVP hog spawn (where the ATH dropped). So they were aware that vehicles could be an issue.

Quiet honestly you won't see any rollback. Too much money was made on the back of that event. Including MA's tongue in cheek joke "if you don't buy the red quads, we'll get paid via Ferrari hogs instead"....lol. Which made me laugh I must say.

It's not worth getting upset over, on the plus side if you see ESI prices crash then hey...top up before prices rise in a year or so. If that's your thing

Laters

Rick
 
Quiet honestly you won't see an rollback. Too much money was made on the back of that event. Including MA's tongue in cheek joke "if you don't buy the red quads, we'll get paid via Ferrari hogs instead"....lol. Which made me laugh I must say.

It's not worth getting upset over, on the plus sider if you see ESI prices crash then hey...top end before prices rise in a year or so. If that's your thing

Laters

Rick
Maybe there won't be a roll back, but maybe there will be some form of compensation (I asked if both scenarios were a possibility on my support case).

We'll have to agree to disagree on whether its worth getting upset about. Like I said previously, alot of effort on my part and by others has been laid to waste by this event. That's a hard hit to just accept.
 
But its not about screwing those who spent their time on that event either, its about mindark finding a solution that this doesnt happen again or if it does that they can react to stop it way faster then they did in the past - if they cant afford own staff to monitor an event maybe they should offer arkadia some money to rent out one of their offical avatars to keep things right on calypso ;)

They got to come up with something to clearly value time and money spent of 'everyone' involved and make sure that certain avatar achievments still count something tomorrow.

ok, sry i have to comment again...
don't get me wrong i really understand that it sucks that your and others effort got devalued...
i know the feeling but i learned to live with it and accept how EU works...
ask all the beauty ppl how they felt when all got free new ava creations...ask the tamers which skilled for years of no use (and not much use today too)...ask the ppl which unlocked bpc with normal crafting...ask the weapon crafters which invetsed in bps and skills...
those ppl suffered way more than you suffered from this easy skilling bug (or feature)...


as i said before, it was your choice to skill this skill, 2 months ago no one knew about cargo missions so it solely was for space evade, hp and speculation...
ppl skilling had a hp advantage to all others...
and if you managed to get ppl skill with rk-5 and shoot space mobs you also could do that for free..
and if you didn't skill on hogglo you just missed your chance..
like the ppl who didn't mine at rt(or ni?) when you coud find sweat claims mining...
like the ppl who didn't hunt when rt dropped insane amount of scanners...
like the ppl who didn't do rt instances when tehy dropped mentor stuff and lots of baringers..
like the ppl who didn't mine foma when every hit was huge multiplier..
etcetcetc
it sucks that MA fucks up stuff so often but pilots really don't suffer that much...if this was a bug and will not happen again all will be back to normal in 6 months..
if this is the new way you have to adjust...in this case you can still skill while others can't and additionaly while evts like this..



and yea, investements aren't that safe here..
but you never ever had the promise from MA that those captain skills are exclusive to ppl with the big space vessels and it is pretty clear to me that they were never intended to let ppl just go out with the only purpose to skill captain...so it was pure speculation...
and yea sure it sucks that it propably was a bug or at least bad planned system...
BUT all space skillers still had advantage long time plus the real purpose of your spaceships didn't get devalued which is warp capable transportation and the possibility to hunt space with unl devices...
(+ cargo missions soon)
 
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calm_down.jpg
 
ok, sry i have to comment again...
don't get me wrong i really understand that it sucks that your and others effort got devalued...
i know the feeling but i learned to live with it and accept how EU works...
ask all the beauty ppl how they felt when all got free new ava creations...ask the tamers which skilled for years of no use (and not much use today too)...ask the ppl which unlocked bpc with normal crafting...ask the weapon crafters which invetsed in bps and skills...
those ppl suffered way more than you suffered from this easy skilling bug (or feature)...


as i said before, it was your choice to skill this skill, 2 months ago no one knew about cargo missions so it solely was for space evade, hp and speculation...
ppl skilling had a hp advantage to all others...
and if you managed to get ppl skill with rk-5 and shoot space mobs you also could do that for free..
and if you didn't skill on hogglo you just missed your chance..
like the ppl who didn't mine at rt(or ni?) when you coud find sweat claims mining...
like the ppl who didn't hunt when rt dropped insane amount of scanners...
like the ppl who didn't do rt instances when tehy dropped mentor stuff and lots of baringers..
like the ppl who didn't mine foma when every hit was huge multiplier..
etcetcetc

and yea, investements aren't that safe here..
but you never ever had the promise from MA that those captain skills are exclusive to ppl with the big space vessels and it is pretty clear to me that they were never intended to let ppl just go out with the only purpose to skill captain...so it was pure speculation...
and yea sure it sucks that it propably was a bug or at least bad planned system...
BUT all space skillers still had advantage long time plus the real purpose of your spaceships didn't get devalued which is warp capable transportation and the possibility to hunt space with unl devices...

I was a tamer with several pets before it got removed, i was a crafter with bpc unlocked before motherships got sold, i know how things run ingame and were i have to be when its time but this does not mean that im keeping quiet when i see my crews and other spacecrews efforts diminished because someone didnt give an event design the attention it should have had or miscalculated the possible gains from it and forgot to monitor and doesnt give a public statement either.
The person in charge for that event needs to be aware what went wrong and avoid it in the future !
 
Maybe there won't be a roll back, but maybe there will be some form of compensation (I asked if both scenarios were a possibility on my support case).

Compensated for what personal loss? You're looking to get compensated for other peoples gain.
As much as I feel for you, how would that work?

MA doesn't pay compensation for such things. What they do is provide you "time" to gain an advantage with the asset and item you own. Then you get that limited time to maximise your opportunity until the next big thing comes along.

I wont even list the examples, but that is how the modern EU rolls.

but you never ever had the promise from MA that those captain skills are exclusive to ppl with the big space vessels and it is pretty clear to me that they were never intended to let ppl just go out with the only purpose to skill captain...so it was pure speculation...
.

I would have to agree, and I'll tell you why. When the next "big" space update happens, we will get ships that will make motherships look old school. Highly likely big mining vessels and destroyers. They won't be called motherships so you won't be able to use the exclusivity argument.

It will happen, your special "time" will run out soon. Then move on to the next thing. You will have an advantage of course changing ships with your skills, but that's all.

Good luck out there

Rick
 
You forgot colouring profession btw.

Oh and before my time, but some used to skill in "healing pools". How far back do we want to go with this?
 
I would have to agree, and I'll tell you why. When the next "big" space update happens, we will get ships that will make motherships look old school. Highly likely big mining vessels and destroyers. They won't be called motherships so you won't be able to use the exclusivity argument.

It will happen, your special "time" will run out soon. Then move on to the next thing. You will have an advantage of course changing ships with your skills, but that's all.

yea...

because it has to go that way...
what would be the point to play EU if you knew:
all the best is out there already, there is no chance i will win sth better or equal in event or anywhere..
there are some oldschool items like terminator which still hold some monopol..but believe me it will fall...with nerfs or some event rule nerfs..
you saw the rage in recent MM?
most other oldschool stuff already lost lots of value because of nearly equal options came up over time..

ppl want better and better...and thats where not only MA but every game is going...

additionaly i want to remind that all MU and effort is build upon current usage and future speculation...
one example when this turns wrong was the egg...so what should MA do when someone pays way more than they ever had in mind?..
a little like todays situation, what if MA did never plan ppl skilled the shit out of their ships and rk-5s?
why should they protect value and effort they never planned that way?
speculation too but who knows....
 
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Look, the fact is its happened, it was a one off episode, peoples gains are exaggerated in your sc anyway. Just get over it and move on, what difference does it really make to your game play? Your just sore but it doesn't effect anything, and there is no way MA will roll anything back or bump up your skills or do anything it's just one of those things.

As I said, sucks but just get over it, move on

-kitch
 
You forgot colouring profession btw.

Oh and before my time, but some used to skill in "healing pools". How far back do we want to go with this?

No decay free melee skilling on auctioneers was a good one :laugh:

Stuff like this bound to happen in game based on RCE, happens in other games also but ofc in EU has bigger impact. Give it few months pilot skills will be back where they were.
 
Just a little tip for all except Space invaders :rolleyes: (they know)
There is a very simple, though less cheap possibility to get all these skills. You can take a Sleipnir (С,L), just arrive in the Training Ground and doing nothing, waiting for the mobs (like Cosmic Horrors), they will shoot at you. This will be the growth of the same skills, fully passive, due to the decay of the ship and spent fuel. You do not need Motherships for doing this. However, skills will grow slower, and decay will be higher, but in addition, you will receive a repair skills when you use RK-5 on your destroyed Sleipnir. Anyone can do it. Without the help of Mothership owners, and I'm sure that if those who did not use possibility of the Hogglo event, will gain skills there (with no carried loot of course), and after 2-3 weeks, all old and advanced players will have at least 15-20 level of the Captain profession.

I have tested this method a few times today. it works. Decay of Equus after each destroying was 1 PED.

PS Do not attach any weapon to your Ship - it will decay too.
 
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Just a little tip for all except Space invaders :rolleyes: (they know)
There is a very simple, though less cheap possibility to get all these skills. You can take a Sleipnir (С,L), just arrive in the Training Ground and doing nothing, waiting for the mobs (like Cosmic Horrors), they will shoot at you. This will be the growth of the same skills, fully passive, due to the decay of the ship and spent fuel. You do not need Motherships for doing this. However, skills will grow slower, and decay will be higher, but in addition, you will receive a repair skills when you use RK-5 on your destroyed Sleipnir. Anyone can do it. Without the help of Mothership owners, and I'm sure that if those who did not use possibility of the Hogglo event, will gain skills there (with no carried loot of course), and after 2-3 weeks, all old and advanced players will have at least 15-20 level of the Captain profession.

I have tested this method a few times today. it works. Decay of Equus after each destroying was 1 PED.

PS Do not attach any weapon to your Ship - it will decay too.

Hopeing to sell more sleipnirs i guess :p
Weapons should always be attached as they spread out the decay making the sleip last longer and the weapons do have less markup then the sleip so it gets more eco overall.
However just joining one of close to hundred spacecrafts out there, doing some repairs and maybe shooting some mobs inbetween or piloting some of them for that matter will get you more captain level increase then the method described above for far less peds and alot of less time spent overall.

Btw gewitter in your calculation of time needed with that method you are off by factor 1000 - but nice try.
Maybe do a log and showcase the TT skillgain with a sleip out there to boost your bussiness ;)


PS: But nevertheless i great suggestion to all those who think the difference with the hogglo event wasnt so much and want to see for themself, go check it out ;)
 
There is a very worrying and recurring theme on this thread.

That because this sort of dire circumstance has happened before, that we should not only accept it, but expect it.

When did the player base of Entropia become so brow beaten, that this all became ok?

Its quite saddening really to think that as customers, we have all but accepted that this is the norm, to the point of those speaking out against it are told to pipe down by their peers. What happened here? How did a company not only manage to have its players forgive its flaws, but also defend them.

Surely we are all of sound enough mind to know when something just isn't right, regardless of how often it happened before. As customers, and as a community, it should be us who seizes the moment, says enough is enough and stands together to demand answers, regardless of whom or how many were effected.

This was never about space vs planet, but about the fundamental trust in a company and a game that stabilises all around us, without that, and without us asking for at least an explanation, we have resigned ourselves to be faced with this situation over and over again in the future. Is that what you really want?

We all want the same thing, for the game we love and cherish to remain fruitful and fun, for that, we have to now and again take a stand, and just ask... to make things right.
 
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Hopeing to sell more sleipnirs i guess :p

John Black Knight,

No, I do not hope to sell more Sleipnirs (this means also, that you are troll, not me, because YOU start offtopic), because I do not sell them at auction, and the price for them has already fallen.
In addition, given my skills and given the fact that I bought 2 SI with SP skill, my skill level is slightly less than 2000 points, and I will not be able to track the progress from zero.
But I don't think that here is factor 1000. Maybe 10 or so, but skills worth more. For skilled players the increase SP skill for 100 points is equal 2-3 levels in Captain profession.

Your levels are unattainable, but the level 20 in a few days - I am sure that yes (not for noobs)

Added: Several Sleipnirs = 1 HP, not bad? Also ingame exist several UL Sleipnirs and Red Quads :)
And for all others - this way is not an exploit
 
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There is a very worrying and recurring theme on this thread.

That because this sort of dire circumstance has happened before, that we should not only accept it, but expect it.

When did the player base of Entropia become so brow beaten, that this all became ok?

Its quite saddening really to think that as customers, we have all but excepted that this is the norm, to the point of those speaking out against it are told to pipe down by their peers. What happened here? How did a company not only manage to have its players forgive its flaws, but also defend them.

Surely we are all of sound enough mind to know when something just isn't right, regardless of how often it happened before. As customers, and as a community, it should be us who seizes the moment, says enough is enough and stands together to demand answers, regardless of whom or how many were effected.

This was never about space vs planet, but about the fundamental trust in a company and a game that stabilises all around us, without that, and without us asking for at least an explanation, we have resigned ourselves to be faced with this situation over and over again in the future. Is that what you really want?

We all want the same thing, for the game we love and cherish to remain fruitful and fun, for that, we have to now and again take a stand, and just ask... to make things right.

This !
In Reallife if anyone of you bought a product and later on found out that the same company sells that product to your neighbours for 5% of what you paid im sure you would try to get your money back and get a better deal yet in here people pad each others backs for how they can keep up with shit thrown at them without complaining and find it proper to tell others who complain how many shovels of shit they themself already took.
In real you would be ashamed of telling anyone that you let yourself be slapped in the face for more then once...
 
For space citizens: You forgot about motto: EU is dynamic. No one promised you endless income.

On the topic: if someone will try the method described above, please, publish the logs with skilling progress, if you do not mind.
 
For space citizens: You forgot about motto: EU is dynamic. No one promised you endless income.

On the topic: if someone will try the method described above, please, publish the logs with skilling progress, if you do not mind.

I hunted quite a bit in my quad, and the gains are unfortunately really bad. Took forever to get to 100 points in SP :(
 
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