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CozMoDan

Elite
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Posts
4,767
Location
Arizona
Avatar Name
Herco Coz Mann
I was very disappointed when I did my first Cave run after the VU. I must say that "The Cave" has been fairly good to me with several globals and one small HOF but I don't really think that I am even as far as costs. To give you an idea of how many runs I have done I have over 700 tokens now and have sold a couple of hundred in the past, so over 180 runs. I usual lose between 30 and 40 ped per run but I enjoy the cave nowever I can't continue with the losses for 2 tokens. I guess I really can't even with 5 tokens but I would probably continue. I just wonder the thinking of MA when making the decision to cut the Cave reward by 60%. Just doesn't seem to make any sense to me.
I have not done a run since.
 
Cost of market-value inflation is what caused them to cut the token rewards in the feffoid cave. Coincidently, skills have been nerfed in the same way due to market-value inflation. In the past MindArk did not consider market-value inflation when it came to handling rewards, but today it seems that it plays a big factor in handling rewards and prize instances.

~Danimal
 
Nighthawk said:
I seriously doubt that, or you are doing something critically wrong.



The cost (not loss) to finish that cave is around 35-40PED average, even when using MindForce before the rebalance that made it much more eco.

Source: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?227535-Feffoid-Cave-please-post-your-costs
Click to expand...

Thanks for telling me that all the notes I take are wrong. Are you stupid or what????? Do you really think I can't add and subtract? My run costs in decay and ammo around 55-60 ped depending on the number of outcasts in the cave. I have had loot in the low twentys but average around 30-35 ped. As I said I have had fairly good luck with the globals but I don't really think they make up for all the losses. Just so you know I buy 51 ped ammo and decay is usually 8-10 ped so, if you are able, you do the math. Just an FYI I don't really care what others say about their costs as I keep my own notes. And one other thing the return includes the ammo that I didn't use as I sell it back when done.
 
CozMoDan said:
Thanks for telling me that all the notes I take are wrong. Are you stupid or what????? Do you really think I can't add and subtract? My run costs in decay and ammo around 55-60 ped depending on the number of outcasts in the cave. I have had loot in the low twentys but average around 30-35 ped. As I said I have had fairly good luck with the globals but I don't really think they make up for all the losses. Just so you know I buy 51 ped ammo and decay is usually 8-10 ped so, if you are able, you do the math. Just an FYI I don't really care what others say about their costs as I keep my own notes.
Click to expand...

55 (decay+ammo) - 30 (loot return) = 25 (total return after hunt)
60 (decay+ammo) - 35 (loot return) =25 (total return after hunt)
30/55 = 55%
35/60 = 58%

55+58=113
113/2=56.5% average return

:scratch2: average of 56.5% return? What is your current setup and professional levels if I may ask?

~Danimal
 
You can reduce your costs a bit if you want (and if prices on guns go down a bit), 40 ped ammo with p5a/a104 suffices if you don't die or maybe once.

I'd like to see the 5 mission tokens back too but i doubt MindArk will ... see if they care ...

(I was trying to save up to change it for something nice .. but it takes enormous amounts for a nice reward so it takes years to collect - which is understandable since it's extra, mission reward, not loot - reducing it to 2 however means it would take years and years EXTRA of running that mission each day to get there and who knows what will have happened by then, so what's the point of collecting tokens then? hence i put them in auction).
 
Well... I started that cave thread and indeed I was probably the guy with the lowest skill from all the posters to try it.

Cost was - as posted - around 44 ped for me, but people got as low as 30 ped (fast kill - less regen on mobs). I got several times 20 ped loot (50%), I wonder why your costs are so high, outcasts or not (you can do them naked btw if enough health, then heal for extra skill if needed - not being :wise:, hate this icon). Lots of misses? or no looters?

The token nerf is just insane - seeing how many are needed to buy some obscure items, I guess their price will go up. Or not (people will give up hoarding them).
 
I really have no idea what have to be done to make the cost greater than 50 peds. I did the cave with dozens of different setups both ranged and melee, just for fun, from Opalo sga to Archon to Mod LR53 and it never did cost more that 45 peds in worst cases. An average cost is 38-40 peds with all repairs and ammo.

But I have to agree that it was barely worth it even with the 5 tokens reward.
 
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I never thought 5 tokens were a good reward for the cave considering the lousy results I usually got there.

Now at 2 token reward won't bother to visit it again.
 
I agree that the reward should be moved back to 5 tokens. The cost of Mission Tokens was very high already, such that some of the reward items are no where near worthwhile (like the CDF vehicles). Changing the required number of tokens to trade is of course possible, but that's not really something that should be tampered with if anyone has already made such a trade.
 
I am sorry but this discussion is not about how much is lost or won. It is about the loss of tokens and regardless of all else 2 tokens is just too little reward for the cost even if the tokens would sell for 1 ped. A full set of Angel(L) cost 1400 tokens which equates to 700 runs, almost 2 years. Five tokens was bad enough but 2 is just ridiculous.
Just a side note, which will be the last thing I say on the subject of losses, my lvl is 65 laser pistol and 63 laser damage.
 
Nighthawk said:
I seriously doubt that, or you are doing something critically wrong.
Click to expand...

I think his strategy is to shoot at the ceiling waiting for it to collapse on the poor unsuspecting feffoids :eyecrazy:

More on topic: I used to do the feffoid cave every time when i was on calypso, because in the long run with 5 tokens it was a guaranteed profit. And it was by far the easiest way to obtain tokens, ofc it sucks that they reduced the number of tokens to two, but it does make sense if you look at the token system.
 
Harmony. said:
it sucks that they reduced the number of tokens to two, but it does make sense if you look at the token system.
Click to expand...

Which part of the token system am I supposed to look at? From my perspective, tokens were grossly overpriced as it was, compared to most of the appealing rewards for which they could be exchanged.
 
TheOneOmega said:
Which part of the token system am I supposed to look at? From my perspective, tokens were grossly overpriced as it was, compared to most of the appealing rewards for which they could be exchanged.
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If you compare it to the other daily missions. Killing treaskeron or thor(i/a/o)foid is a lot harder and time consuming then killing 15 feffoid. Same goes for the daily mining missions.

I don't know if they are overpriced, people buy them at 80 pec per token, buy some angel armor with them and resell it for a profit. I don't think that angel (l) should end up being a 110% armor, (well i would like it for myself, but it would just make people take on mobs they can't handle which is never a good idea).
 
the other daily missions didnt give 5tokens either so i told them they should.
of course MA does the exact opposite by cutting the cave tokens while in the same notes they say loot is improved.
if someone replies rewards are not part of loot then please give me all your mission rewards for free :)

i haven't sold one token they were always overpriced, for me its about being able to finally get something that i never looted.
i go for angel parts and i did get a full L set, now that parts are nearly breaking i want to replace them with new ones but with 2tokens a day its impossible to keep up with breaking parts.

also the thorifoid daily mission and rextelum sabakuma aetherex daily mission is done by no one on a daily basis as the feffoid cave is, and thats exactly because of the reward being as low as it is.
now that feffoid cave is cut i bet a lot of folks won't even bother anymore.

when the feffoid cave had 5tokens as a reward i knew a lot of people who already didn't bother as they are focused on iron missions and saw the cave as a waste of time.
its just a low blow MA hands to low lvl players!



i suggested the following to MA:

2012-01-19 22:14 You wrote:

so we have the daily feffoid crystal mission 15kills=5tokens

and we have the thorifoid/thorio daily which says to score 2500points=3tokens

now this mission completes when i reach near 1000/2500
why is it not set at 1000points? seems to be plenty for a daily challenge.

its also strange that its less tokens on this much much harder mssion, would it be possible to increase this amount for this mission?

they closed this one after saying its sent to design team bla bla

So then they changed the thorifoid to 2.5kpoints for 3tokens (opposite of what was suggested)





had to make a new case to spell it out for them:

2012-04-20 13:36 You wrote:

So i had contacted u to clear up things about daily missions,

Why did u do exactly the opposite of what was asked?

to make it clear:

-Feffoid cave =5tokens = 15feff bandit = +-25peds =
6min/day

-thorifoid daily=3token = 125thorio L19-27=+-500ped =2h30/day

-poacher daily=5token=30saba 30aetherex 30rex=+-500ped =3hrs+/day

!! 6min vs 2h30 = 5 vs 3tokens = 25ped vs 500ped !!

Do U see the inconsistency here?
(and i do mean u, the guy who will close this case after he has 'supposedly' send it to some other department)

i would love to see it back to 1000points thorifoid daily with a better reward like 5tokens.

the daily poacher i believe can be split up in 3, kill 30sabakuma/day= 1token
30aetherex/day=3tokens
30rextelum/day=5tokens

please do not close this case as i will try explain differently if this isnt showing the inconsistency.

greetings,
grower




I'm sorry guys i feel its my fault they reduced it...
no more tokens for me since vu..
 
Grower said:
I'm sorry guys i feel its my fault they reduced it...
Click to expand...

Yes it probably is. If it wasn't for you everyone would be walking around in angel armor all the time, i hope you learned your lesson though and will no longer make silly support cases.
 
Harmony. said:
If you compare it to the other daily missions. Killing treaskeron or thor(i/a/o)foid is a lot harder and time consuming then killing 15 feffoid. Same goes for the daily mining missions.

I don't know if they are overpriced, people buy them at 80 pec per token, buy some angel armor with them and resell it for a profit. I don't think that angel (l) should end up being a 110% armor, (well i would like it for myself, but it would just make people take on mobs they can't handle which is never a good idea).
Click to expand...

I did not know that any of the Traesk missions were repeatable. I would love to start doing them alongside the wave events. There are quite a few Mission Token Traesk missions on Entropedia; which ones may be repeated?
 
None of those on entropedia are repeatable (have done them all except for 60k). If there is a daily traesk mission, it isn't there.

edit: BUT there is one NPC in the Camp Poseidon who never talk to me. Maybe he'll start giving out the daily mission after finishing the 60k.
 
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ohh sorry was confused with the rexteleum/aetherax/sabakuma mission.
 
CozMoDan said:
Thanks for telling me that all the notes I take are wrong. Are you stupid or what????? Do you really think I can't add and subtract? My run costs in decay and ammo around 55-60 ped depending on the number of outcasts in the cave. I have had loot in the low twentys but average around 30-35 ped. As I said I have had fairly good luck with the globals but I don't really think they make up for all the losses. Just so you know I buy 51 ped ammo and decay is usually 8-10 ped so, if you are able, you do the math. Just an FYI I don't really care what others say about their costs as I keep my own notes. And one other thing the return includes the ammo that I didn't use as I sell it back when done.
Click to expand...

Wel if you have those cost, you oviusly not equipt or skilled properly for feffoids

(30-35 ped for the enitre cave run is a normal average)
 
Coul you please send me a link where I can see what am I able to purchase with mission tokens?
 
I don't play the cave anymore, as long we only get 2 tokens there! 5 token was ok, but 2 is very bad. No more cave for me ! :mad:
 
skunkjunk said:
Wel if you have those cost, you oviusly not equipt or skilled properly for feffoids

(30-35 ped for the enitre cave run is a normal average)
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{removed} I said my costs is 55 to 60 ped, depending on the decay. I said I buy 51 ped ammo and the decay is 5-9 ped depending on what weapon I use. I also said that I usually get 30-35 ped back from the TT, so that means the net cost are 25 to 30 ped, actually less than yours. Sometimes I get more loot and have more ammo left over and sometimes less ( I TT everything include un-used ammo) net cost still averages 30-35 ped.
Sorry I said last time I wouldn't mention cost again but all of you stupidy casused me to respond.
 
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After a few days of constant losses in the cave, I have written down the peds I had before and after the run of today. After the run, killing only 15 feffoid, I'm down 19,68 ped. That is a substantal loss for only 15 feffs...
 
BlueEyes said:
After a few days of constant losses in the cave, I have written down the peds I had before and after the run of today. After the run, killing only 15 feffoid, I'm down 19,68 ped. That is a substantal loss for only 15 feffs...
Click to expand...

The results can be unbelievably bad several times in row. or you get a global.
 
The Feff cave mission was part of my daily routine in EU...

BUT, since they nerfed the token reward down from 5 to 2 tokens I just don't bother with it anymore...

Sigh... Will MA ever learn how to keep paying customers happy? :eyecrazy::scratch2:
 
FYI: You can make it for the angel set (as an example ofc) in allot less time, if you do more than one daily mission...
IMO thats what they want from us? to do all/multiple of those missions each day?
 
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