Confused By E-AMP/A-100/Boom Series

[stuffystuffy]

According to entropedia, dmg/pec for the opalo 3.96 dmg /1 pec for the Breer m1a(L) is 4.09 dmg/1 pec(It costs less to use the m1a per point of damage than the opalo). This would suggest that it is always better to use the m1a as long you have maxed it, and the mob has more more than 14 hp. Yet people suggest hunting with opalo is most eco?

Secondly if you add the Boom CCC (L) amp eco increases by.01 dmg/pec on the m1a. E-AMP 11 dmg/pec stays the same. A101 dmg/pec increases by .09 dmg/pec and A102 dmg/pec increases by .15 dmg/pec.

This suggests a few things. If you spent 1000 pec(10 ped) on ammo you would do 4100 dmg with the Boom CCC Breer m1a as compared the the 4090 dmg of unamped m1a. You would then save 2.445 pecs on this hunt. On a maxed Boom CCC which is unrepairable you should spend no more than 15.06 pec markup.

The numbers on the A101 series are ~10 times better than the Boom CCC(made even better because the A100 series is repairable). On a 1000pec(10 ped) hunt you do 4180 dmg with a101 vs unamped m1a 4090 dmg. Which saves you 22 pecs for this hunt. With a markup of ~ 90 peds you would have to spend 4090 ped !!!! hunting to pay for the a101 on the m1a.

The a102 is 15 times better than the Boom CCC. On a 1000pec(10 ped) hunt you do 4240 dmg vs unamped m1a 4090. This saves you 36.67 pecs for this hunt. Even with a markup only ~ 80 peds you would have to spend 2180 peds hunting to pay for the a102.

Finally the E-AMP 11 makes no difference on the eco of a m1a hunt, (accept in the sense that you need not to use it when the mob has below 21 health, for it to be equally eco.) Since the E-AMP 11 also will increase skill gains because they are based on damage. The trade off of the E-AMP is simply the markup you pay 1-5 peds, in exchange for faster skills gains.

Conclusions: Boom CCC: You shouldn't pay more than 15.06 pecs for it
A101/A102: Ridiculously overpriced unless you intend to spends THOUSANDS of peds hunting.
E-AMP 11:Contrary to customary wisdom is surprisingly good, it will allow you to skill faster at minimal cost.

 

[Miles]

Missing One Thing

Conclusions: Boom CCC: You shouldn't pay more than 15.06 pecs for it
A101/A102: Ridiculously overpriced unless you intend to spends THOUSANDS of peds hunting.
E-AMP 11:Contrary to customary wisdom is surprisingly good, it will allow you to skill faster at minimal cost.

You are missing one thing regarding the markup on the A101 and A102 - and any repairable item for that matter. You can sell the A-amps and recover the markup, more or less, depending on the market. While you are tying some peds when you purchase them, the markup is not lost like it is for an L amp.



Miles

 

[Immortal]

You are missing one thing regarding the markup on the A101 and A102 - and any repairable item for that matter. You can sell the A-amps and recover the markup, more or less, depending on the market. While you are tying some peds when you purchase them, the markup is not lost like it is for an L amp.



Miles

Seriously, who sells these amps? I think this kind of justification is utterly ridiculous. "You can sell it later"

When exactly?

Next year?

When you quit the game?

That does very little in recovering costs in the immediate future, which is the point of such an anlaysis.

 

[FaustPL]

Conclusions: Boom CCC: You shouldn't pay more than 15.06 pecs for it
A101/A102: Ridiculously overpriced unless you intend to spends THOUSANDS of peds hunting.
E-AMP 11:Contrary to customary wisdom is surprisingly good, it will allow you to skill faster at minimal cost.

I was looking for e11 myself but couldn't find one on auction that is not ridiculously overpriced and E amps have worse durabality then A amps as well.

If u buy 10 or more (L) amps its same like buying 1 A amp...depending which one o/c.

 

[stuffystuffy]

You are missing one thing regarding the markup on the A101 and A102 - and any repairable item for that matter. You can sell the A-amps and recover the markup, more or less, depending on the market. While you are tying some peds when you purchase them, the markup is not lost like it is for an L amp.

That is certainly true. However, this does not make a101/a102 correctly priced or a good value People use a101 to improve the eco of their hunting, and as the above article stated, they do not actually improve the eco of ones hunting by a significant amount, and you lose the 90 ped markup until you resell, which could be spent on ammo.

The ultimate purpose of one's hunting should of course be taken into account. If I am hunting to skill the E-AMP 11 is my best choice for the m1a, because of its small markup. I spend the ~90 peds on ammo and skill up much faster.

If I am hunting to make money then I want to be as eco as possible, which would suggest buying the a101/a102/Boom because they boost the dmg/pec. However, you will not significantly benefit from the eco of the a101/102 for a long time, which suggests they are not correctly priced for their value.

Note:This is a cost benefit analysis not a supply demand analysis.

I was looking for e11 myself but couldn't find one on auction that is not ridiculously overpriced and E amps have worse durabality then A amps as well.

E-AMP 11 have a max tt of 29 ped and get 3962 total uses. I too have not seen any on auction But the other's sell for almost no markup. Maybe some crafter should supply some

 

[Miles]

Seriously, who sells these amps? I think this kind of justification is utterly ridiculous. "You can sell it later"

When exactly?

Next year?

When you quit the game?

That does very little in recovering costs in the immediate future, which is the point of such an anlaysis.

The point is simple - they can in fact be sold. When is not the point. Sell when you move on to using bigger weapons, sell it when you need cash, sell when the price seems high, sell it whenever you want. Unless you buy high and sell low, no markup is lost.

I know I don't sell any of my A-amps because I use them every time I hunt. And it doesn't really take all that long to pump 4k peds through a M1a (or M2a or M3a) with A102, I'm know I have already. I did a project camping Snarksnots, 40x200ped runs, that alone would have covered the cost based on Stuffy's analysis, and that is just a fraction of the use my A102 has had.

I very clearly stated that peds would be tied up in the amp, but to compare that to the markup on an (L) amp is just stupid. The markup on the (L) amp is spent if you use the amp, period. The markup on the A-amps is preserved (more or less) regardless of how much you use it.

I disagree that the A-amps are overpriced. Expensive? Yes. Overpriced? No, not if you plan on being a hunter.



Miles

 

[Oleg]

I havent checked your figures but lets assume you are correct that you will recoup the cost of an A101 by spending approximately 4k PED ammo.

Many people spend 4k PED ammo in a month. That's not a long time.

OK, maybe Opalo users don't spend 4k in a month, but more skilled players turn over that much ammo quite quickly. Some people do that in a day.

Whoever told you Opalo is the most eco weapon is wrong, by the way. It's got quite poor eco compared to the Breer range (though you have to remember to consider markup as well).

 

[stuffystuffy]

Many people spend 4k PED ammo in a month. That's not a long time.

OK, maybe Opalo users don't spend 4k in a month, but more skilled players turn over that much ammo quite quickly. Some people do that in a day.

If you're spending 4k PED a month on ammo why are you using a Breer m1a with an a101?

If you are hunting to make a profit then you would use the most eco weapon possible. Which are not any of the breer series. I'm not saying that there aren't some cases where using the a101/102 doesn't make sense(you have a lot of peds), but I don't think that most low level hunters or even mid levels hunters should be using them.(Of course depends on how you define mid/low level hunters

I challenge you to find a situation which I haven't already stated where they would in fact be a good idea to buy

 

[Oleg]

If you're spending 4k PED a month on ammo why are you using a Breer m1a with an a101?

If you are hunting to make a profit then you would use the most eco weapon possible. Which are not any of the breer series. I'm not saying that there aren't some cases where using the a101/102 doesn't make sense(you have a lot of peds), but I don't think that most low level hunters or even mid levels hunters should be using them.(Of course depends on how you define mid/low level hunters

It's not so much about how you define mid/low level hunters, it's more about the difference between complete noobs and low level hunters.

The difference is that complete noobs think that 100 PED is a lot

You're gonna have to stop thinking about that "hunting to make a profit" thing too, or you'll last about 5 minutes round here.

 

[Oleg]

I challenge you to find a situation which I haven't already stated where they would in fact be a good idea to buy

You caught me with a sneaky edit.

Challenge accepted.

It would be a good idea to buy an A101 amp if you ever intend to do any hunting, ever. Simple.

 

[FaustPL]

E-AMP 11 have a max tt of 29 ped and get 3962 total uses. I too have not seen any on auction But the other's sell for almost no markup. Maybe some crafter should supply some

''If I am hunting to make money '' - NOT possible When I went for hunt today i had 15 first mobs no loot!! After few more with crappy loot, i just logged out(saving money)

Generally E amps are more powerfull then A amps but decay is bigger so less eco. But on the other hand the E series is much cheaper. Its up to u to decide if u want to spend more $ straight away or later in aprox 3x bigger decay.

As usuall some ''trader'' is hordaing e11's probaly waiting for who knows what?

 

[stuffystuffy]

I don't actually believe that you can make a profit hunting, but what I am representing are the two view points of hunters that would be interested in this thread.

Hunters that want to be ubers and therefore want to skill as fast as possible.

Hunters that want to spend as little money(be most efficient) as possible on this game.

There is of course the third type of hunter who doesn't care about either eco or uberness and he would have no interest in this thread.

I think I've made it clear that the cheapest and then fastest way to skill after you max the opalo is to get an m1a with an E-AMP 11.(Please point out areas which you think aren't clear)

This thread isn't about what you would do if you had 40k ped, but what you would do if you had were no longer so nooby as to use the opalo and were deciding what to do next. Or if you decided you were going to hunt some lower level mobs using a breer m1a for no apparent reason.

Challenge accepted.

It would be a good idea to buy an A101 amp if you ever intend to do any hunting, ever. Simple.

I would give this to you but Miles and I already covered this and I certainly concede that if you want to spend/cycle over 40k ped a101 is the way to go

 

[Oleg]

Hunters that want to be ubers and therefore want to skill as fast as possible.

These people eat chips.

Hunters that want to spend as little money(be most efficient) as possible on this game.

You're missing the point completely. Eco isn't just about hunting at low cost, it's also about skilling at low cost.

There is of course the third type of hunter who doesn't care about either eco or uberness and he would have no interest in this thread.

Except that they are the same people who use E-Amps.

I think I've made it clear that the cheapest and then fastest way to skill after you max the opalo is to get an m1a with an E-AMP 11.(Please point out areas which you think aren't clear)

OK. You are wrong. Using M1a with A102 would be much better.

This thread isn't about what you would do if you had 40k ped, but what you would do if you had were no longer so nooby as to use the opalo and were deciding what to do next. Or if you decided you were going to hunt some lower level mobs using a breer m1a for no apparent reason.

If I was hunting with M1a I would always use A102, every time. It would be stupid not to.

Bottom line is: E-Amps will cost you money, A amps will save you money.

There is a reason why they cost more.

 

[stuffystuffy]

Bottom line is: E-Amps will cost you money, A amps will save you money.

There is a reason why they cost more.

Yes I've heard this before, but the specific E-AMP 11 attached to the m1a does not add any dmg/pec cost to hunting. A amps will save you money I agree, however they take a long time to save you significant amount of money. So I suggest if you want to skill faster to get to a more eco gun such as the breer m2a (which coincidentally adds half as much eco as adding an a101 amp!) you should use the E-AMP 11

It's a question of getting to the most eco gun possible and then adding your amps.

 

[Xzion]

I dont have much time to answer now befor i go to work; but are you trying to say that by giving a friend who just began playing a opalo+a101 was not the best of choise?
I mean. for a lot of people there is more to it, why they shuld not get L things then just that "Normal" non L things are overpriced.
The fact that my friend isnt very high tech on computers, new to the game and so on makes up a very good resone to stay away from L weapons, where you need to switch offen to avoid getting scammed, insted, this person got 2 trustable and repairable pices of equipment and dont need to mind the auction or the tradeing which at this point is more then she really can handle/understand.

For me who played silly ammount of years, i suppose L can be a better choise unless im maxed and chose not to pump some money into my gear.

L = Better for not new people who knows how the market works and what everything is worth that wont easily get scammed.
UL = Better for newcommers who still got to learn about the game, or that cant play enugh to learn about the game that just plays it for fun once a week.

Thats just what i think.
Off to work. been here for to long anyways now.

 

[Miles]

I don't actually believe that you can make a profit hunting, but what I am representing are the two view points of hunters that would be interested in this thread.

Hunters that want to be ubers and therefore want to skill as fast as possible.

Hunters that want to spend as little money(be most efficient) as possible on this game.

There is of course the third type of hunter who doesn't care about either eco or uberness and he would have no interest in this thread.

I think I've made it clear that the cheapest and then fastest way to skill after you max the opalo is to get an m1a with an E-AMP 11.(Please point out areas which you think aren't clear)

This thread isn't about what you would do if you had 40k ped, but what you would do if you had were no longer so nooby as to use the opalo and were deciding what to do next. Or if you decided you were going to hunt some lower level mobs using a breer m1a for no apparent reason.

You can profit, or at least break-even, hunting if you do it wisely. I have nowhere near 40k peds, but I can cycle 1k peds over and over breaking even while gaining skills essentially for free.

To break even, in a nutshell, hunt mobs that you can kill very quickly and efficiently. An A-amp is helpful in this regard. Most people are hunting above their level, even if they don't think so. That is all well and good, but not profitable. The farther above your level, the more costly it is.

The fact of the matter is, there is no right or wrong way to hunt, but there are more and less expensive ways.

Anyway, time to go shoot things.



Miles

 

[FaustPL]

I think I've made it clear that the cheapest and then fastest way to skill after you max the opalo is to get an m1a with an E-AMP 11.(Please point out areas which you think aren't clear)

Hmm.
Actually I prefer to hunt with opalo/a101. Ok less dmg but higher fire rate and no markup and less ammo burnt. 2 opalo/101 4 m1a/e11.
So maybe m1a is faster(????) but 100% its not cheaper for longer run.

M8, it was already proven that the most eco(cheapest) way is A series amps. Price on those says this clearly right? Consider it as an investement.

 

[stuffystuffy]

Hmm.
Actually I prefer to hunt with opalo/a101. Ok less dmg but higher fire rate and no markup and less ammo burnt. 2 opalo/101 4 m1a/e11.
So maybe m1a is faster(????) but 100% its not cheaper for longer run.

M8, it was already proven that the most eco(cheapest) way is A series amps. Price on those says this clearly right? Consider it as an investement.

Gah, lol. Yes I state at the very beginning of the article that hunting with the a101 is more eco!!! You save like 20pecs per 10 peds using the a101. However, what I'm saying is that buying an a101 as soon as you get an opalo/m1a is expensive(duh right? )

So I point out that why spend that ~90 ped markup on the a101? Get the E-AMP 11 instead E-AMP 11 does not decrease the dmg/pec of your m1a
Spend those 90 peds you saved on ammo. You will skill faster (E-AMP does more damage.), and have 90 peds more of ammo that you otherwise would not have.

After you have maxed the m1a get the m2a rinse and repeat, then get the m3a. The m3a is more eco than m1a you've almost gotten to an a101 without having to pay those 90 peds!! And you've done it faster without any extra cost (You may point out here that there is a markup for m1a/m2a/m3a but these are actually very small markups)

Now at this point you have a lot of options. I will analyze what to do there when I get there

 

[Quickening]

Oleg wins, the end

 

[FaustPL]

Gah, lol. Yes I state at the very beginning of the article that hunting with the a101 is more eco!!! You save like 20pecs per 10 peds using the a101. However, what I'm saying is that buying an a101 as soon as you get an opalo/m1a is expensive(duh right? )

So I point out that why spend that ~90 ped markup on the a101? Get the E-AMP 11 instead E-AMP 11 does not decrease the dmg/pec of your m1a
Spend those 90 peds you saved on ammo. You will skill faster (E-AMP does more damage.), and have 90 peds more of ammo that you otherwise would not have.

After you have maxed the m1a get the m2a rinse and repeat, then get the m3a. The m3a is more eco than m1a you've almost gotten to an a101 without having to pay those 90 peds!! And you've done it faster without any extra cost (You may point out here that there is a markup for m1a/m2a/m3a but these are actually very small markups)

Now at this point you have a lot of options. I will analyze what to do there when I get there

Ehhh my mind is boiling. To much eco/uneco thinking for me, Oleg rulez#
BUT i understand your point m8.

ps. I was changing my answer 4 times i think and none seemed to make sense.. so this is final, sry

ps2. stuffy.. lets go for TH? Ill be on in 2h..

 

[Oleg]

Let's go back to your thread title.

If you'd listen to advice given by people who know what they're talking about instead of spending your time trying to defend your own flawed logic, maybe you wouldn't be confused.

Goodnight.

 

[stuffystuffy]

Let's go back to your thread title.

If you'd listen to advice given by people who know what they're talking about instead of spending your time trying to defend your own flawed logic, maybe you wouldn't be confused.

Goodnight.

Wow very rude.

You stated that E-AMP 11 detracts from your eco in hunting with a m1a, this is wrong, my numbers are grounded in mathematics and logic and are backed up on the entropdia page you can check them if you like and if you can prove me wrong about this then go ahead. This thread has the potential to help hunters and If you aren't going to contribute that's fine, but I'd prefer if you don't flame in this thread.

I've already agreed with you that a101 adds eco in hunting and this point is addressed in my original article, and then clarified in my conversation with Miles, which you seem to have forgotten. The point which anyone can understand is that you can, spend the money you spent on an amp on other things, that would give you a greater benefit.

When did I ever say I was confused about how E-AMPS/A-Amps/Boom series work. This thread is meant to clarify the confusion that a lot of people have.

 

[FaustPL]

http://www.entropiatools.com/avgdmgpec.php

Good tool to compare all this dmg/pec etc.

M8, Oleg is 100% right, your point is only about saving few peds on very short run. And I think this is b/c you are non-depositor. Am I right?

 

[Oleg]

Wow very rude.

You stated that E-AMP 11 detracts from your eco in hunting with a m1a, this is wrong, my numbers are grounded in mathematics and logic and are backed up on the entropia directory page you can check them if you like and if you can prove me wrong about this then go ahead. This thread has the potential to help hunters and If you aren't going to contribute that's fine, but I'd prefer if you don't flame in this thread.

I've already agreed with you that a101 adds eco in hunting and this point is addressed in my original article, and then clarified in my conversation with Miles, which you seem to have forgotten. The point which anyone can understand is that you can, spend the money you spent on an amp on other things, that would give you a greater benefit.

When did I ever say I was confused about how E-AMPS/A-Amps/Boom series work. This thread is meant to clarify the confusion that a lot of people have.

OK, I was giving up but I'll try to make it simple for you.

If you're really bothered about the massive expense of up to 100 PEDs for an A101, try this.

1. Buy A101
2. Max Opalo
3. Sell A101

But frankly if you think 100 PEDs is a lot to spend on an item, you might as well forget about EU now.

 

[FaustPL]

OK, I was giving up but I'll try to make it simple for you.

If you're really bothered about the massive expense of up to 100 PEDs for an A101, try this.

1. Buy A101
2. Max Opalo
3. Sell A101

But frankly if you think 100 PEDs is a lot to spend on an item, you might as well forget about EU now.

Just to clarify... Oleg are u sure that skill gain will be same or faster with 101 comparing to e11?

 

[Oleg]

Just to clarify... Oleg are u sure that skill gain will be same or faster with 101 comparing to e11?

No, I never said it would be faster. I said it would be cheaper.

But if you run out of PEDs from using E-Amps all the time then that slows you down too

 

[stuffystuffy]

Yes you are right Faust, great tool Btw according to e-tools the E-AMP 11 does add a very slight eco to the m1a, so there is even less of a reason not to use it besides not being able to find one Or already having an a101.

It isn't just about saving peds in the short run, it's about the most efficient way to skill.

Oleg you don't seem to understand that I am agreeing with you. For the fourth time a101 boosts eco, it makes it cheaper to hunt. End of story.(We agree on this) That is not the point I am making.

The point is there are two purposes to use the a101 skill faster or be more eco.

You gain a skill benefit from not using it because you have 90 peds worth of extra ammo that you didnt have, which you can now hunt with. And there is no extra cost to do this.

The eco side of it is you can reach more efficient guns quicker because you are skilling faster. These guns have a much lower markup than the a-amps, so their benefits can be achieved much more quickly.

If you have a lot of peds you it's easy to be wasteful or use them incorrectly, but that doesn't mean you should be wasteful.

Finally if the value of your a101 ever goes down then you are in trouble. Unless you intend to do all the hunting to break even with the markup.

 

[Witte]

In the beginning you don't really need amps. You basically want to shoot as many times for as little PED as possible. When you progress, and become more serious about hunting, then amps become more important. And from that moment you will also spend enough to justify the markup. But before that moment, it all doest really matter. Have fun and do what you like.

 

[Dash NightShade]

Oleg is right in what he states, and as for 100 ped, well that woulden't even cover the cost of my ammo on 1 hunt...

 

[jenny ferr]

In the beginning you don't really need amps. You basically want to shoot as many times for as little PED as possible. When you progress, and become more serious about hunting, then amps become more important. And from that moment you will also spend enough to justify the markup. But before that moment, it all doest really matter. Have fun and do what you like.

totally agree with this, why use amps on those low lvl guns when you dont have them maxed, or have I missed that you get more skills when using amps?