Confused, most economical?

[Dhorm]

Ok I'm fairly new to the game even though I gave it a try a year or two ago, but my computer couldn't handle it.
Back then I skilled rifle with a Jester-D1 but I know that Opalo is better now.

Anyways, my question is. Isn't it more economical to use RepEdge2x0 than Opalo even with those a101 amps? (Lets pretend I got enough skills to use them to their full potential)

I'll never have those superrifles and I'm ok with it so I'll probably always stay with whats most economical without me having to pay tens of thousand PEDs even if it means killing Daikibas forever ^^

Is it possible to calculate Opalos Dmg/pec with an a101, if so: how?

 

[Naifas Anaconda]

www.entropiatools.com
www.entropiawiki.com

have fun

 

[Jimmy B]

Some good tools you can use to judge that, as Naifas points out above.

The key thing to be aware of is the two types of weapon. There are old weapons (described as non-SIB) which take a long long time to master, but are often more efficient once they are mastered than new weapons. But until you've logged thousands of hours skilling, or bought a lot of skills, they are very inefficient due to high misses and bad damage range (your worst attacks will only deal around 25% of the maximum possible). The Rep02 axe is an old non-SIB weapon.

The new SIB weapons can be mastered much earlier. You may find you already have maxed stats on the Opalo (HA=10, worst attack 50% of maximum possible).

So almost certainly Opalo will be better for you.

(The L Weapon Guide link in my sig may be useful if you want to get down into the equations)

 

[Dhorm]

Ok thanks but,

I didnt get the calculators to work because if I put in that I maxed out the weapons I still got like 3 dmg/pec on the RepEdge2x0 which must be wrong?
And the Opalo with the amp was on 2.8? And this was when I put in that I maxed out with the highest minimum and maximum dmg, hit and so on.


And about the Learning weapons, Can't I train with an Castorian EnBlade-A which also got SIB? Because the axes use the same as that, right?

 

[Phil Surtees]

The ax does not have sib at all. What it does have is 8.5 decay, which means you spend a LOT of money in repairs. Stay with the opalo, or if you want to skill melee start with the TT sword, then move through the Loughlin Cutter series as you max each one.

 

[Cron]

I will most likely be many years before you max your axe.

 

[Coop_]

I didnt get the calculators to work because if I put in that I maxed out the weapons I still got like 3 dmg/pec on the RepEdge2x0 which must be wrong?
And the Opalo with the amp was on 2.8? And this was when I put in that I maxed out with the highest minimum and maximum dmg, hit and so on.


And about the Learning weapons, Can't I train with an Castorian EnBlade-A which also got SIB? Because the axes use the same as that, right?

The figures you see on the weapon compare tool are _average_ damage per pec (accounting for misses and the entire range of possible damage amounts), so 3 is a very higher number, while 2.84 is ok.

You can train with swords that have SIB, and if you continue for years and years (10 years maybe?), you might reach enough skills that you can use the axe 2x0 somewhere close to its potential economy. But all along the way you will be using weapons that have lower economy and slower damage than you could get with ranged weapons if you had skilled them.

For some people, hunting with blades is just plain more fun, so great. But discussing melee in a thread with "economical" in the title doesn't really fit.

 

[Alice]

The ax does not have sib at all. What it does have is 8.5 decay, which means you spend a LOT of money in repairs.

that is nonsense if you look at it with cost of guns too per shot

it has indeed 8.2 pec decay, but also 36 max damage

the opalo needs 2 ammo per shot, max dam 8

where is the difference in getting 4.5*8=36 with the opalo for 4.5*2=9 pec decay
or by using an axe 2x0 for 36 damage 8.2?

i could as well say, stay away from opalo, it has A LOT of ammo cost


generally the repair cost of melee are around the same as the ammo+decay on ranged
so you can't argue with repair cost, except you get your gun to shoot without ammo ^.-



either way, the axe 2x0 is indeed worse than the opalo, but not due to repair costs itself

the problem will be your low hit ability especially
you have likely around or below 1/10 hit ability on the axe, means many strikes will miss but cause decay (besides, melee does indeed cause decay on miss when a target is there)

while your opalo gonna have 10/10 hit ability soon, which will lead to more hits, so less wasted pecs (ammo+decay)


means effectively

you gonna hit more often, thus spending less pecs to kill a mob, thus having better chance to break even


also, the damage of the opalo will max earlier than the one on the axe, adding more weight to that as well


if you want to go melee, use the stuff from the tt first, although i generally advice away from melee
the decay becomes indeed a problem, but basically for L stuff, which isn't the topic yet (it is one of my favourite areas though )


edit, i might add

i am rather skilled in longblades and don't dare to use the axe 2x0 yet ^^

and Coop is correct, if you want dam/sec and eco, rather go ranged, you find it easier there, if it isn't the only place to find it, but in melee you gonna have a tough time

 

[Dhorm]

hmm ok

so, forget about the 2x0! With a a106 I'm on the same eco! Though they're probably both hard to find and expensive as hell :$

Why is a102 cheaper than a101? Because Opalo cant use a a102?
Can I use A201-A204 on an Opalo? They seem to give better dmg/pec than a101.

 

[Cerberus]

either way, the axe 2x0 is indeed worse than the opalo, but not due to repair costs itself

That statement is so misleading that I just had to post.

The 2x0 is worse than the Opalo, even if you only judge it by repair costs. A maxed Opalo is 27-28% cheaper than using a 2x0, solely based on the decay costs.

Why is a102 cheaper than a101? Because Opalo cant use a a102?
Can I use A201-A204 on an Opalo? They seem to give better dmg/pec than a101.

No, you can only an amp that effectively that is doing a max of half the damage of the gun. For instance, anything over 4 on an opalo will just make your economy worse - guaranteed.

If you want to AMP your Opalo (which actually decreases the eco unless you can find bargain AMPs) then go with the xr40. The a101 is just terrible imho.

 

[davidgr1200]

If you doubt the calculations just try a hunt with the axe. Repair it to full tt and go and hunt with it. See how much you hit on average. By seeing how much the tt has decreased during the hunt you can work out for yourself how much damage-per-pec you do.
Then try the same thing with the Opalo +A101 - there you have to take into account:
- ammo used
- decay of Opalo
- decay of A101

Then compare the results. You will presumably see that the Opalo combination is more economical. Don't sell you axe though, it comes in useful when you run out of ammo, or when you need to hit a bit harder in an ermergency

 

[Alice]

The 2x0 is worse than the Opalo, even if you only judge it by repair costs. A maxed Opalo is 27-28% cheaper than using a 2x0, solely based on the decay costs.

just looking at decay cost you compare 8.2 with 0.02 per attack ^.-

thats not 28%


i guess you took eco into considering as well as i did, means the actual damage and hit ability etc

it would actually be useful not to look at max dam eco but min dam eco, that already gives a good idea of whats better and what isnt

 

[Cerberus]

If you want to be nitpicking, be my guest:

just looking at decay cost you compare 8.2 with 0.02 per attack ^.-

I wrote decay instead of writing exactly what I meant, because it was less words. Didn't actually expect someone to use that lazyness against me.
One opalo shot, 2.02 PEC
One axe swing, 8.2 PEC

thats not 28%

Fine, it's 27,7%.

i guess you took eco into considering as well as i did, means the actual damage and hit ability etc

Read my initial post again, as I clearly stated that I based it solely on damage done.

it would actually be useful not to look at max dam eco but min dam eco, that already gives a good idea of whats better and what isnt

Cant really follow you there.

 

[Alice]

The 2x0 is worse than the Opalo, even if you only judge it by repair costs. A maxed Opalo is 27-28% cheaper than using a 2x0, solely based on the decay costs.

No, you can only an amp that effectively that is doing a max of half the damage of the gun. For instance, anything over 4 on an opalo will just make your economy worse - guaranteed.

If you want to AMP your Opalo (which actually decreases the eco unless you can find bargain AMPs) then go with the xr40. The a101 is just terrible imho.

If you want to be nitpicking, be my guest:

I wrote decay instead of writing exactly what I meant, because it was less words. Didn't actually expect someone to use that lazyness against me.
One opalo shot, 2.02 PEC
One axe swing, 8.2 PEC

Fine, it's 27,7%.



Read my initial post again, as I clearly stated that I based it solely on damage done.

Cant really follow you there.

i read it again, and it sais decay cost

the only time "damage" is written in your post isnt where you quoted me

my last comment wasn't directed towards you and i didn't mean to nitpick you ^.-

but saying i mislead ppl and then doing the same because that are less words is funny too ^.-

 

[Dhorm]

So whats the most economical for me?
Opalo + A101 or Opalo + xr40?

(Doesnt the xr40 break? it has an (L) behind it..)

 

[mastermesh]

take it from someone that knows...

take it from someone that actually skilled up to 2.5 k in longblade with 2x0s early on - 2x0s suck. I've gone back to using tt enblades for now til I can afford an unlimited sib weapon like embra c1. opalo + a101 is also what I use... with unamped opalo or tt pistol as finisher so you get less overkill in a101 decay, etc.

TT longblade has very slow reload, which is why most hate it... but it maxes out quick on ha... Embra c1 or rustic slos are nice because they max out on ha quick and are almost as fast as 2x0 with about same amount of damage / second... but both Embra and Rustic are L unless you got tons of peds and can afford the non-L ones that still have the sib... even then better be rich I hear, since I hear that non-L can never go below 50% where L goes down to 3% like other weapons... so you'll get stuck with high TT on your non-L weapon and have no clue when it'll give out on you when you are out and about down to 55% or so since you'll hit 50% before you know it, just when you are surrounded by a bunch of atrox.

 

[Phil Surtees]

So whats the most economical for me?
Opalo + A101 or Opalo + xr40?

(Doesnt the xr40 break? it has an (L) behind it..)

Yes, it breaks, go for the A101, but it's worth checking prices on the boom ccc, sometimes they are a good deal.

 

[Witte]

If you want to be nitpicking, be my guest:

I wrote decay instead of writing exactly what I meant, because it was less words. Didn't actually expect someone to use that lazyness against me.
One opalo shot, 2.02 PEC
One axe swing, 8.2 PEC

Fine, it's 27,7%.



Read my initial post again, as I clearly stated that I based it solely on damage done.

Cant really follow you there.

I think you mean to say is that the Opalo is cheaper to use per click. (not ~28% but more like ~75%). However, that does not mean the axe is worse. It depends on dmg/pec, which in turn depends on your skills.

 

[Cerberus]

Yes, it breaks, go for the A101, but it's worth checking prices on the boom ccc, sometimes they are a good deal.

As previously said, the XR40 is cheaper than the A101 in terms of money used for damage. The A101 is less of a worry to find one though.

I think you mean to say is that the Opalo is cheaper to use per click. (not ~28% but more like ~75%). However, that does not mean the axe is worse. It depends on dmg/pec, which in turn depends on your skills.

No, dealing damage with an 2x0 is roughly 28% more expensive (as in 1.28) than just using an Opalo instead. This is if you completely disregard the hit modifiers Alice was referring to.

 

[Naifas Anaconda]

That statement is so misleading that I just had to post.

The 2x0 is worse than the Opalo, even if you only judge it by repair costs. A maxed Opalo is 27-28% cheaper than using a 2x0, solely based on the decay costs..

Pardon me? If you don't take into account the damage done, how can you make such comparison? you know there are some weapons that are way more eco than opalo, yet they deal much more damage and have much more decay.

If you want to AMP your Opalo (which actually decreases the eco unless you can find bargain AMPs) then go with the xr40. The a101 is just terrible imho.

uh?
average dmg/ pec:
opalo + a101: 2.841
opalo + xr40 (no markup): 2.706

and with the a101, u even deal more damage.

(ok, i admit i answered before reading the second page)

 

[Cerberus]

Pardon me? If you don't take into account the damage done, how can you make such comparison? you know there are some weapons that are way more eco than opalo, yet they deal much more damage and have much more decay.

Yea, I didn't make myself clear enough. Sorry, I was ill at the time I wrote it and thought the english would still let people understand.
Anyhow, what I was saying is that in terms of damage per pec, the Opalo wins over the 2x0 (when the Opalo is close to being maxed at least, but the 2x0 is so horrible I suppose it's even better at initial levels).

average dmg/ pec:
opalo + a101: 2.841
opalo + xr40 (no markup): 2.706

and with the a101, u even deal more damage.

The markup for an a101 is huge. If you're going to just use it on an Opalo, you're better off with something else.

Edit: Shit, I'm stupid. Forgot that it's unlimited and can be resold at the same price.
Fuck it, just buy an opalo with a101 then

 

[Naifas Anaconda]

Take care of that flew or cold mate. It can be the shit, i had a terrible week in christams because of it .

 

[Zacariaz]

maxed opalo avg dmg/pec
((4+8)/2)/(2+0.02) = 2.97

maxed opalo+a101 avg dmg/pec
((5.5+11)/2)/(2+0.02+0.652) = 3.09

maxed axe 2x0 avg dmg/pec
((18+36)/2)/8.2 = 3.29


Just to make clear tha a maved 2x0 on average is more economical than a maxed opalo, even with a101 amp.

How bad the eco is un an unmaxed axe 2x0, I have no idea about, though I would like to know as 0.20 dmg/pec is a big difference between opalo+a101 and and 2x0. I mean first of all, even if the eco on the axe should be worse than the opalo, it still does twice the damage per second, or something simular, which in turn means killing whatever you're killing faster which mean less armor/fap decay and it also mean less damage done, because of the regeneration, thus you save money there too.

This might not be the best example, but I think that poeple underestimate the value of a high dmg/sec, even on relative low level mobs, and by that I don't mean ginibs mind you

 

[WoenK]

maxed opalo avg dmg/pec
((4+8)/2)/(2+0.02) = 2.97

maxed opalo+a101 avg dmg/pec
((5.5+11)/2)/(2+0.02+0.652) = 3.09

maxed axe 2x0 avg dmg/pec
((18+36)/2)/8.2 = 3.29


Just to make clear tha a maved 2x0 on average is more economical than a maxed opalo, even with a101 amp.

How bad the eco is un an unmaxed axe 2x0, I have no idea about, though I would like to know as 0.20 dmg/pec is a big difference between opalo+a101 and and 2x0. I mean first of all, even if the eco on the axe should be worse than the opalo, it still does twice the damage per second, or something simular, which in turn means killing whatever you're killing faster which mean less armor/fap decay and it also mean less damage done, because of the regeneration, thus you save money there too.

This might not be the best example, but I think that poeple underestimate the value of a high dmg/sec, even on relative low level mobs, and by that I don't mean ginibs mind you

I get 2.30 dmg/PEC with the axe 2x0 (14Sw. DMG/10 Sw. Hit).
2.75 DMG/PEC unamped Opalo (Lvl 34.75 Laser Sniper/40.14 Ranged Laser)
2.86 amped with A101

always good to scan the skills and upload to entropedia, without the skills the figures are way off from reality.

 

[Dhorm]

Okay !

So I've settled back with rifles =) Actually more fun to play with the opalo so I'm happy

My new question is however, how do you set like, fire opalo hotkey 1 and my other opalo with amp on hotkey 2? (And fap on 3 for example)

Do I earn more skills if I fire on stronger mobs?

How much is full Rascal (M) worth?


Sorry if some questions seem somewhat stupid


Edit: Oh and, I saw a guy useing some sort of rocket launcher with big explosions and everything, I asked him if the gun hurts several monsters at the same time and he said it did. Is this really true?


Edit2: When I open "Professional Standing" it sais like "Beginner, 2" which means Rank and level right? But underneath it sais: "Green, 2" aswell? Same level but different rank? Can someone explain this to me?

 

[Coop_]

maxed opalo avg dmg/pec
((4+8)/2)/(2+0.02) = 2.97

maxed opalo+a101 avg dmg/pec
((5.5+11)/2)/(2+0.02+0.652) = 3.09

maxed axe 2x0 avg dmg/pec
((18+36)/2)/8.2 = 3.29


Just to make clear tha a maved 2x0 on average is more economical than a maxed opalo, even with a101 amp.

How bad the eco is un an unmaxed axe 2x0, I have no idea about, though I would like to know as 0.20 dmg/pec is a big difference between opalo+a101 and and 2x0. I mean first of all, even if the eco on the axe should be worse than the opalo, it still does twice the damage per second, or something simular, which in turn means killing whatever you're killing faster which mean less armor/fap decay and it also mean less damage done, because of the regeneration, thus you save money there too.

This might not be the best example, but I think that poeple underestimate the value of a high dmg/sec, even on relative low level mobs, and by that I don't mean ginibs mind you

I wondered about the value of higher dam/sec on lower mobs, so I ran some "simulated" battles with different dam/sec weapons. Most low mobs regenerate so slowly that the amount of regen even for opalo falls within the usual "overkill" amount.

Ofc if the mob is big enough to kill you, that's a different story.

 

[Coop_]

So I've settled back with rifles =) Actually more fun to play with the opalo so I'm happy

My new question is however, how do you set like, fire opalo hotkey 1 and my other opalo with amp on hotkey 2? (And fap on 3 for example)

Do I earn more skills if I fire on stronger mobs?

How much is full Rascal (M) worth?


Sorry if some questions seem somewhat stupid


Edit: Oh and, I saw a guy useing some sort of rocket launcher with big explosions and everything, I asked him if the gun hurts several monsters at the same time and he said it did. Is this really true?

See Alice's guide for how to hotkey your items, and plenty of other helpful info and advice. http://rp.apachenet.de/downloads/Entropia_Guide.pdf

You probably noticed that you often get "bonus skills" when you kill a mob. The more mobs you kill, the more bonus skills, so smaller mobs are generally better for cheaper skilling.

Not sure on the markup for full Rascal (M), but since you don't have it yet, I might suggest getting as many L Rascal parts as you can find. As long as you can buy the parts for less than 120% you will save some peds in decay, plus have armor that won't protect you less and less as a hunt continues.

And yes, rockets and grenades do "splash damage," so they divide their potential damage among creatures or avas within an area.

 

[Deleted member 23278]

A forum moderator has answered your question... no need to say any more.

 

[Dhorm]

Wow

Nice guide Alice did there Got it working

I do have Rascal actually ! Used to be my goal when I first played so first thing I did when I came back was buying it on auction

So smaller mobs = more skills? Great

Why do people use these rocket launchers? For PvP? Probably hard to escape a rocket I suppose


New question: Should I use Vivo T5 now when I maxed out the T1?

 

[Jimmy B]

A forum moderator has answered your question... no need to say any more.

lol, forum moderators can be wrong!

Although I think not on this occasion