Deeds - your opinion

[Matho]

Hi,
Im just curios what is your opinion about selling land deeds?

Do you think MA will meet their expectations and will sell all deeds for 1k per paper?
What about money? How much do you think will be deposited and how much will be recovered from storages?
If you personally buy deeds you do it via depo or you just save peds ingame(selling out stuff from stor, selling items, playing less)?

And most important question - what do you think about the future?
After 1/4 of revenue(or what is it) will go back to players, doesnt it mean players will deposit approx 25% less in the future?
Wont be system missing that money?

 

[Bemo]

Well personally I don't trust that MA will have the system ready by 2013 or when ever it is. That is alot of peds tied up for a long period of time to just be waiting to see what the new Deed system will be. I was all about buying the deed to put a house up (didn't really care bout what % return would be) until I read you have to have 9 all in a 3x3 plot.

I don't think the return will be very much either unless you have a shitload of the deeds but still then you have put out ALOT of peds to get them and will take a long time to get it back.

I don't think there are enough active players to sell the 60k either but all this is just my jumbled unsure opinions atm. Nothing more nothing less I could be wrong about the whole system.

-Bemo-

Edit: I don't think the return % will have any (or too little to notice) effect on what people depo each month.

 

[Mega]

Hi,
Im just curios what is your opinion about selling land deeds?

Do you think MA will meet their expectations and will sell all deeds for 1k per paper?

Yes, I think they will. Everything else they have sold whether it be islands, banks, malls etc has always sold.

 

[Few Scars]

I don't think there are enough active players to sell the 60k either but all this is just my jumbled unsure opinions atm. Nothing more nothing less I could be wrong about the whole system.

-Bemo-

I do also wonder if there are enough active players, I suspect there are only about 3-4000 active accounts out of the 850000 suggested accounts. It is a high level, top super top big secret as to how many accounts are actually in use. Saying that, if they are offering 60000 deeds, they must expect to sell them.

I guess on one note, them not telling us how many players there are is a good thing. If we found out that there were say only 3000 active players we would see some interesting movements in the economy. Better we stay in the fantasy that there are 850000 of us

 

[remontoire]

The deeds will probably sell. MA has made no promises on when systems tied to deeds will be finished, only when development will start.

 

[mastermesh]

yes, all will sell, but many will likely be resold or relisted on auction for a very, very, very long time.

 

[millstreet2]

I do also wonder if there are enough active players, I suspect there are only about 3-4000 active accounts out of the 850000 suggested accounts. It is a high level, top super top big secret as to how many accounts are actually in use. Saying that, if they are offering 60000 deeds, they must expect to sell them.

I guess on one note, them not telling us how many players there are is a good thing. If we found out that there were say only 3000 active players we would see some interesting movements in the economy. Better we stay in the fantasy that there are 850000 of us

yeah, I suspect active players are a very small % of active accounts

Maybe getting some old time players back will unlock more value on caly.... As most older accounts are calypso residents... (hopeful thinking)

 

[Yquem]

yes, all will sell, but many will likely be resold or relisted on auction for a very, very, very long time.

So you do think that all will be sold. Well for sure not to the existing player base.

Lets try a small calculation on how many unique players we are.

- 4510 are mentors
- 2589 solo hunters on all planets (in one month)
- xxxx just here for trading
- xxxx just here for chatting
- xxxx just here for mining
- xxxx just here for crafting
- xxxx that has reached the mentor level yet
- xxxx is none depositers

and some of those is a bit of everything.

I would say that in a month there will be around 4k active players (some is active a lot some is only keeping acount alive) - but to have some easy numbers then lets say we are 6k active accounts here. Then we all in average have to buy 10 !!!!!! land deads each in average including average joe that has never deposit and almost never is doing anything. Each of us will have to use 10k peds !!!!! on those deeds. I dont think ppl like to invest 10k ped as dead money.

So if MA should be able to sell all deeds they need some outgame investor that want to invest money in a that bad and unsecure stuff as a Land Deed that you have no controle over at all.

I dont think MA can sell them all.

 

[valivill]

all deeds will be sold.
I agree it will take some time.
About the ROI im sure it will drop because less ppl hunt because of the deeds.
Will probably go up again after all get sold.

Dont think its worth depositing until you know about the revenue we get weekly.(overview of a few weeks or longer)

 

[Infinity01]

I agree with Ykuem that there are about 6k active players.

I don't think all the deeds will be sold.

Heavy buyers (9 or more) are likely to do it through deposits and the numbers i dont' think very high.

I bought 2 deeds after depoing (probably a mistake).. will buy up to 9 at least...... but want to see.....

Personally, I think MA is catering the game towards investors and not to the average players out there in the world...which I think is a big mistake...and that's why I've a negative sentiment.

But regardless of my opinion, I hope MA gets a good cash infusion.. and use it wisely for marketing and development.

About the ROI im sure it will drop because less ppl hunt because of the deeds.

It's already apparent in auction data.

 

[Daniel Steps]

And most important question - what do you think about the future?
After 1/4 of revenue(or what is it) will go back to players, doesnt it mean players will deposit approx 25% less in the future?

No, ppl will probably just use those peds, so they might be happier gamers, since they loose a little less, stretch the deposits a little longer ... however, 6M being taken out of the system i don't think that will bring good loot or happy gamers ... and the main problem perhaps: 6M for advertising? that's just throwing away your money, it's never gonna bring in enough depositors imo.

 

[millstreet2]

No, ppl will probably just use those peds, so they might be happier gamers, since they loose a little less, stretch the deposits a little longer ... however, 6M being taken out of the system i don't think that will bring good loot or happy gamers ... and the main problem perhaps: 6M for advertising? that's just throwing away your money, it's never gonna bring in enough depositors imo.

It depends how they spend that money,

If they use a marketting firm, or have a clue how to spend the money properly they will stretch that out.

It doesn't take the CASH to determine how sucessfull you are. Throwing x amount of dollars at something blindly won't help. Its the marketting team we have or are going to obtain, and how they allocate the funds which is important.

Hopefully they implement, or pay a marketting firm who will be sucessful.

 

[Infinity01]

The following additional information has been added to the Calypso Land Lot Deeds Announcement.

FAQ


Q. How is the Planet Partner Gross Revenue calculated?
A. Planet Partner Gross Revenue is calculated and paid by MindArk to the Planet Partner, and includes avatar activity on Planet Calypso, along with the activity of Calypso avatars in Space and on other Entropia Universe planets. Avatar activity includes deterioration of items, as well as various other fees and avatar activities.

So, based on the above definition of gross revenue calculation, and the source being only avatar activities...I think deed holders will not receive any money from the sale of any future lands, shops, or any other assets developped by Calypso PP.

 

[remontoire]

So you do think that all will be sold. Well for sure not to the existing player base.

Hmm... remember the time and discussions around the Medusa sale? Or the various bids for CP?

Sure, motherships took out a portion of freely floating and easily available peds.

 

[millstreet2]

So, based on the above definition of gross revenue calculation, and the source being only avatar activities...I think deed holders will not receive any money from the sale of any future lands, shops, or any other assets developped by Calypso PP.

They said they will spend the cash we don't recieve on dev team and advertising.

Its in there interest to have calypso do well too!

They aren't selling a dieing asset, they are trying to bring it to the next level!

Not to mention calypso content is most likely going to improve ROI within the game, benifitting all.

 

[Infinity01]

They said they will spend the cash we don't recieve on dev team and advertising.

Its in there interest to have calypso do well too!

They aren't selling a dieing asset, they are trying to bring it to the next level!

what i'm saying is.. if in the future calypso PP develops properties like medusa bazar, TI, cp, forma or something like that... the deed holders won't get anything from the sale of those kinds of assets! Im not talking about activities of players on those assets.

 

[MysterLV]

What i personally think its MA and FPC attempt to finish this year in annual report at very positive state. Each sold deed can be stated as profit (i.e. refined ped out of system, injected almost zero TT, took out a $6m), maybe not all till the end of 2011 but still.

Acitvity of game economics is tiny somo general ore, weapon and other item sale graps (in-game ofc) and all recession started after SGA, when a lot of medium playerbase just left game, and medium paleys are who deposit (who wanna skill, advance, gain gear, etc), ubers profit from they proffesions, no need for deposit ....

Btw i left also soon after SGA, now in 2011 september came back, i see a lot new cool features but still no taming, no beacons ....also makeup is just now back ... oh yes vesicles are cool, quests etc ... all good, but still to slow ... i think old systems had to be back first.

Nothing new and crative made ... oh just now some mission tokens to gain items instead of blazzar and other crap, true 10k chain gave some skills ...

That says me they have still same thinking. With this deeds they kinda sell opportunity to kinda earn, im sure deed will pay pack in 5 years or more if not game dies 1st lol.

MA made new island, new mob, ppl hunted it for few days, whinned about lagging .. now i dont see this mob globing/hofing ... sand king scam broken trust of looting something ... the Rextellum in end didnt droped any new item (or i missed it) what ppl expected to hit in loot ... and came back to regular mobs they hunt. Just same mob, different look at different location.

There are zillions of ways how to make game exciting, mysterious and discoverable all the time with little of development ... a lot ideas are posted here on forum, but MA just take in mind few suggestions at development when she ask - to kinda have communication. It took so much time for ma to make mission system that ppl were tired ask.
As for example: some mobs drop certain item part and you need collect all parts from different mob to combine it together. The recipe is unknown same as mob DNA to make. When someone makes and item it could bring such a discussions, wanting to find parts ... ties you in hunting ... some extra markup, improved activity of game. Items that combines dont need to be unL, like Ancient Isis LR53(L) of TT of sum of combined parts TT used ... with some improved stats ... unique items u cant get regularly ... something you need to find out your self etc etc ... sent this to MA (in bit advanced way using all profession in game mining, hunting, crafting) like 3 years ago i think. This might not be best idea ofc, there are plenty of them and better of this.

Gold, Adomasite, Valurite and other ores are cheaper then lyst ... epic ... MA make ore rare but with no use, what that is for balance ... there are plenty of wrong things in-game now.

Mentoring is back just now ............. it had to be 1st thing to remake after VU10 to keep steady income of new players, and look its nothing super cool made now, mentor register and rating and different algorithm to check graduation cant take that much time.

MA need steady, regular growth of new players injected into game all time as someone of existing leave, they basing business of existing players and dont think how to get more new in ...........

I could write and write and write ... but why .....

 

[millstreet2]

what i'm saying is.. if in the future calypso PP develops properties like medusa bazar, TI, cp, forma or something like that... the deed holders won't get anything from the sale of those kinds of assets! Im not talking about activities of players on those assets.

I know what you mean. But now, in my opinion the citizens who own calypso have a certain incentive for the planet to do well.

If they use the cash for paying out the CEO, we will find that out in the audited numbers they will provide every 6 months.

If they use that cash for advertising and development team than we are getting our money worth, As content will be king of entropia going forward.

MA will be promoting the whole game and its newest attractions. Calypso will not be the focus of every PR, and vise versa, we will get traffic from players starting on the other planets, which will be forced to come to calypso and spend time / money on the planet, thus improving ROI's

 

[Infinity01]

I know what you mean. But now, in my opinion the citizens who own calypso have a certain incentive for the planet to do well.

If they use the cash for paying out the CEO, we will find that out in the audited numbers they will provide every 6 months.

If they use that cash for advertising and development team than we are getting our money worth, As content will be king of entropia going forward.

MA will be promoting the whole game and its newest attractions. Calypso will not be the focus of every PR, and vise versa, we will get traffic from players starting on the other planets, which will be forced to come to calypso and spend time / money on the planet, thus improving ROI's

I understand... that.

But it doesn't answer my inquiry:
Will calypso assest sale be counted as part of revenue to be given to the deed holders?
I think they won't...

The implication... The whole calypso can be sold to someone after getting US$6 million... and the buyer may declare bankruptcy...

In that scenerario we, the deed holders, get nothing.....and an excellent way for MA to sell out of a game in the red

 

[ermik]

Will calypso assest sale be counted as part of revenue to be given to the deed holders?
I think they won't...

ofcourse they wont, it clearly states that its 25% of the gross revenue generated by decay and other fee´s connected to avatar activities ingame.

why do people assume this is some stock or company share? , its a paper that gives you a small stream of expected 5 peds / week and share.

if they make a new continent and sell it for 50000000 million than deed holders still get nothing.

cheers

ermik

 

[millstreet2]

ofcourse they wont, it clearly states that its 25% of the gross revenue generated by decay and other fee´s connected to avatar activities ingame.

why do people assume this is some stock or company share? , its a paper that gives you a small stream of expected 5 peds / week and share.

if they make a new continent and sell it for 50000000 million than deed holders still get nothing.

cheers

ermik

yup, I agree with this.

The benifit we get from a active dev team making good content in line with MA guidelines is more content for people to decay on ect.

So directly we get no ped from 1 time sales, but we will get the revenue stream for the years to come from such assets.

The cash will go to calypso bottom line. The devs will have a static cost no matter. The amount we are able to raise OVER COSTS, will likely translate to money spend on advertising.

Its stated that the 50% calypso keeps is for dev team and advertising.

We all benifit from the success of calypso, Investors, players, everyone has something to gain from this system.

Find cheap items, buy deeds, do what you feel will increase your gameplay the most. Don't worry about what the others do and progress your avatar, enjoy your time like you have before.

 

[Zacariaz]

I have to wonder...
Will i ever happen that MA/FPC/* come op with a concept and people just go: wow! That's totaly it!

I think not.

As for the shares, or what you wanna call them, I've already bought one and if I had the money, chances are that I would have bought a whole lot more.

 

[Infinity01]

yup, I agree with this.

The benifit we get from a active dev team making good content in line with MA guidelines is more content for people to decay on ect.

So directly we get no ped from 1 time sales, but we will get the revenue stream for the years to come from such assets.

The cash will go to calypso bottom line. The devs will have a static cost no matter. The amount we are able to raise OVER COSTS, will likely translate to money spend on advertising.

Its stated that the 50% calypso keeps is for dev team and advertising.

We all benifit from the success of calypso, Investors, players, everyone has something to gain from this system.

Find cheap items, buy deeds, do what you feel will increase your gameplay the most. Don't worry about what the others do and progress your avatar, enjoy your time like you have before.

So MA being in the red.... and if MA or Calypso PP fails to bring in new players... and go bankrupt... then $ 6 million players are now giving to MA... means nothing.. no legal binding whatso ever!

This is what I understood.... just wanted to make sure Im not missing something!

 

[XeroX2]

So MA being in the red.... and if MA or Calypso PP fails to bring in new players... and go bankrupt... then $ 6 million players are now giving to MA... means nothing.. no legal binding whatso ever!

This is what I understood.... just wanted to make sure Im not missing something!

As is the same for every single item out there with a Markup. I am sure there is "slightly" more markup in the game than 6m. xD So really I don't get why everyone is suddenly so worried about a risk that existed since day one and was probably worse when the company was still young.

 

[Greznik]

Hi,
Im just curios what is your opinion about selling land deeds?

Do you think MA will meet their expectations and will sell all deeds for 1k per paper?
What about money? How much do you think will be deposited and how much will be recovered from storages?
If you personally buy deeds you do it via depo or you just save peds ingame(selling out stuff from stor, selling items, playing less)?

And most important question - what do you think about the future?
After 1/4 of revenue(or what is it) will go back to players, doesnt it mean players will deposit approx 25% less in the future?
Wont be system missing that money?

I think they will eventually sell them all, but no idea how long it might take. I think this will create a lot of deposits over time, but will also take a lot of ped out of game, which will likely increase depos down the road.

As for 25% less in the future, this would be true if only a small number of people bought all the deeds. Most are buying 1-10 or so. If you do the math, say you buy one deed. IF you get 30% return on that over the course of a year, you will get approx 300 ped. Split this up on a weekly basis, you will get about 5.7 ped/week. This means a lot of the peds will remain in game, either be saved up for an eventual withdrawal a few years later, or spent in game. So unless you buy a lot of deeds, people won't be withdrawing these peds anytime soon.

 

[millstreet2]

So MA being in the red.... and if MA or Calypso PP fails to bring in new players... and go bankrupt... then $ 6 million players are now giving to MA... means nothing.. no legal binding whatso ever!

This is what I understood.... just wanted to make sure Im not missing something!

KIM stated a month or 2 ago, that for the prior few months they where in the green...

So the beggining of year, yes things did look bad, Failed medusa sale. + lot of people withdrawing due to NEVERDIE SCANNERGATE... That and then the withdraw time had to be extended because there was a short term liquidity crunch. That further eroded confidence in the system.

I myself withdrew and quit when that happened. But then Arkadia was released and I gave the game a second chance, and I've been as addicted as ever. I won't be the only one who will come back. I think MA really nailed it with this system.

I was born on calypso, so every activity I do in game has that share go back to caly reguardless of my location! Many other players will come back to check out the 2 upcomming planets to be released within 1Q and 2Q's from now!

Since then a NEW president has been appointed and the game has taken a drastic turn, (implementing things the players once suggested, better face to face time with MA officials.) They are taking us to the next stage of Micro transaction games by incorperating into the model a revenue split between its partner platforms, and players. Thus giving the universe more positive tone I feel that will be set from within our community.

You can see the amount of personal flaming has remained tame even discussing hot topic issues such as a 6mil dollar sale. Its in more peoples best interest than ever to see this game succeed, and with all the players involvement sure to pick up, it will be a grassroots way to promote the game for NO cost to MA.

Furthermore, If other PP's continue to hold events and have content that draws in calypso players that is better than a calypso player staying on calypso not decaying. (in terms of both PP's profits) If this system succeeds as a whole, your going to see a lot of happy people who got in when MA first offered the system.

 

[Norbert]

I really like the idea of the deeds and yes have bought a couple and as time go's on will hopefully buy more (good loots, extra ped standing etc, Dibblers xmas/birthday present). I personally love the idea of players having a stake financially in the game, it hopefully will give people the sense of involvement - being a part of calypso.

Yes i think they will all sell, but may take more time.

The only short term worry i have is about possible liquid ped in the system being temporarily diinished as people buy deeds from spare ped, but i guess if they were held ped they were not being cycled/used anyway.


Anyway overall i really like the concept

 

[Fanan]

It should take a bit but I think MA will sell all the deeds. And with this MA will be able to reduce a lot the value of PED circulating in the game. I remember to read somewhere that if many players do a withdrawal probably MA wont have money to pay all. So this deed thing is a brilliant action from MA!

Of course some players will deposit to be able to buy the deeds but guess those will be a small percentage. As we can see already with some hunting loot, everything is almost 101% now because players are trying to free PED.

How this will affect the game economy? Well for the next weeks I guess all markups will continue to fall, I m even thinking in make some vacations from the game, not funny to hunt with such low mu's on some loots. But maybe by the x-mas the economy start to go up again because of merry mayhem. And just hope that 2012 will be a great year!



edit: of course that I plan to buy one deed on next month but it's almost by charity.

 

[GoNi]

Inho all will be sold, befor 2013

Already secured more than 10 for myself, and definately want to increase that number.

 

[Yquem]

Inho all will be sold, befor 2013

Already secured more than 10 for myself, and definately want to increase that number.

At a time it will be possible to get them below 1k ped - MA cant sell all of them and when ppl that did buy some need to sell - they have to go below MA's price.