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sky west

Old Alpha
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
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701
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Netherlands
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Queen Sky Genesis
Was thinking about this with the recent non decaying amp debacle. It's really short so read carefully.

Economy is largly based on trust. Trust is knowing that no one will cheat the system. Internet in general provides ppl with a higher sense of anonymity.

Put the two together and you get a system of trust put in an environment of anonymity.

:confused:
 
“You may be deceived if you trust too much, but you will live in torment if you do not trust enough”

~Frank Crane~
 
sky west said:
Economy is largly based on trust.
Click to expand...

And there is the 1st flaw in your logic. Economy is NOT based on trust. If it was, no one would keep records. Records allow business & customers to review the transactions properly in case a dispute occurs.

Proof: You don't make a receipt when you hand $5(or whatever your local currency is) to a friend, daughter, etc. They'll either pay you back, or you simply gave it to them without worry about anything of equal value in return. That's trust, and nothing to do with any Economy.

Economy is based on numbers & desires.

Rework your formula with that.



However, it is true that the temptation to cheat is highly regulated by two variables:

  1. Chances of getting caught
  2. Amount of negative impact (punishment)

If either or both are too low, cheating will increase.
 
Speaking of, doesn't this look peculiar to you too?

http://www.entropiatracker.com/player.asp?mode=viewPlayer&PlayerID=160606

48 globals starting last month, none in the two years before. Almost exclusively on proteron, high maturity Osseocollum and even high gen Warlock. (The soc name does ring a bell too).
Just using this as an example of the trust in others you speak of.
 
solO, to answer your question: The Great Pretenders (the mentioned soc) is known to house a serious cheater (bug exploiter, scammer, ... just check out PCF or pm me for screenshots, and since they house him still, i'm guessing they accept perhaps even share that kind of behaviour), so it would make sense that he/they made this new ava and let it use gear from his/their other avatar(s) to kill warlock / proteron without ever having killed any easier mobs (to try and get a hof for the 'accomplishment', basically repeating the old opalo an ara after trapping it in a new vu). Then again, can't proove it, and MindArk doesn't care (even though the logs should be clear enough).
 
i wouldnt agree that the internet turns folks into something they arent , i believe it just lets us come into more contact with people , honest folks would prolly 99% of teh time remain honest , even when finding a way to cheat or scam something , while dishonest are out looking for these ways.....imho
 
JohnCapital said:
And there is the 1st flaw in your logic. Economy is NOT based on trust. If it was, no one would keep records. Records allow business & customers to review the transactions properly in case a dispute occurs.
Click to expand...

Well, trust is needed to have a working economy. Currency is what it makes it all possible. The value of things and the trust we have in that value. Or in other words, the things you have to do for money and the things you can do with money.

Ofcourse you need to keep numbers and ofcourse economy is about alot more like: supply and demand, available resources, laborforce, governments and so on. But things like trust, security and stability play a big role on all of it.

edit:
*posting folks plz*
Please, don't turn this thread into a 'he did, she said'
I want no personal accusations in this thread
Go take it else where
 
Nebu said:
Speaking of, doesn't this look peculiar to you too?

http://www.entropiatracker.com/player.asp?mode=viewPlayer&PlayerID=160606

48 globals starting last month, none in the two years before. Almost exclusively on proteron, high maturity Osseocollum and even high gen Warlock. (The soc name does ring a bell too).
Just using this as an example of the trust in others you speak of.
Click to expand...

well there are 2 legit ways:
1) an old pre tracker player coming back hardcore
2) new player that chipped like hell to play at the highest level of play. there have been several high skill players retiring, coulda bought the whole skill set. just takes money
 
Please, please

A kind request to stop giving comments on trackerdata, and stop pointing fingers.

This is an adult discussion about the effects of the internet environment on the workings of the economy. And why ppl feel the need to cheat the system for personal gain.

So please no :argue: and don't go :offtopic:
 
sky west said:
Please, please

A kind request to stop giving comments on trackerdata, and stop pointing fingers.

This is an adult discussion about the effects of the internet environment on the workings of the economy. And why ppl feel the need to cheat the system for personal gain.

So please no :argue: and don't go :offtopic:
Click to expand...

Oh Im sorry, I thought this topic was exactly about that (cheating the system for personal gain), so I gave an example of how that is being done in EU. I'll stay away now.
 
sky west said:
Was thinking about this with the recent non decaying amp debacle. It's really short so read carefully.

Economy is largly based on trust. Trust is knowing that no one will cheat the system. Internet in general provides ppl with a higher sense of anonymity.

Put the two together and you get a system of trust put in an environment of anonymity.

:confused:
Click to expand...

Economy is based on the laws of supply and demand... Its in both Micro- and Macro- Economics.. any basic class from High school to college will teach you as much. The desire to cheat is the want for short term satisfaction at the expense of long term gain with the possibility of perma-ban and loss of trust.

JohnCapital said:
And there is the 1st flaw in your logic. Economy is NOT based on trust. If it was, no one would keep records. Records allow business & customers to review the transactions properly in case a dispute occurs.

Proof: You don't make a receipt when you hand $5(or whatever your local currency is) to a friend, daughter, etc. They'll either pay you back, or you simply gave it to them without worry about anything of equal value in return. That's trust, and nothing to do with any Economy.

Economy is based on numbers & desires.

Rework your formula with that.



However, it is true that the temptation to cheat is highly regulated by two variables:

  1. Chances of getting caught
  2. Amount of negative impact (punishment)

If either or both are too low, cheating will increase.
Click to expand...

Sadly... MA acts as all three the Judiciary, Executive, Legislature branches of the government; None of the citizens know the laws nor the punishments nor the reasoning.

How can you gauge one without proper information?
 
Telgard said:
Economy is based on the laws of supply and demand... Its in both Micro- and Macro- Economics.. any basic class from High school to college will teach you as much. The desire to cheat is the want for short term satisfaction at the expense of long term gain with the possibility of perma-ban and loss of trust.



Sadly... MA acts as all three the Judiciary, Executive, Legislature branches of the government; None of the citizens know the laws nor the punishments nor the reasoning.

How can you gauge one without proper information?
Click to expand...

i think you mean micro and MARCO economics......lol
 
People cheat in this game because they can. The only penalty is being banned from the game. Even if you are caught if you live in some other country what can they do to you? Nothing you think the US is going to extradite you for a few thousand dollars or Sweden will ask. So the worse that can happen is a ban then these people can find ways around that also and get back in.
 
diver said:
i think you mean micro and MARCO economics......lol
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you are joking.. but I hopes... oh god! the slippery slopes of unwritten prehistoric barter economics.

dale011 said:
People cheat in this game because they can. The only penalty is being banned from the game. Even if you are caught if you live in some other country what can they do to you? Nothing you think the US is going to extradite you for a few thousand dollars or Sweden will ask. So the worse that can happen is a ban then these people can find ways around that also and get back in.
Click to expand...

Nope. You can be warned. You can get temp banned. You can lose the trust of the people. All are valid forms of punishment and penalty within the game.

Forcing a Real ID system would make working around bans very difficult; It would also allow them to sue you in real life for theft if the bounty is large enough (Like making counterfeit ped).
 
Telgard said:
Sadly... MA acts as all three the Judiciary, Executive, Legislature branches of the government; None of the citizens know the laws nor the punishments nor the reasoning.

How can you gauge one without proper information?
Click to expand...

Dont think that's true. With Scams, basic civil law applies that anyone should know of. If you gain something against the will of someone, by tricking someone, by not sticking to the "contract" you made, you are scamming. So MA would actually only be the Executive and Judiciary here.

And for all other kind of things: I believe that if you are exploiting, Abusing, Cheating in any form, you will probably know that you are doing something not ordinary there. I didn't ever find a bug or exploit without knowing that this is something not to be used. Accordingly I knew I would be punished for using something like that. So I dont think you need special rules on each possibility out there, just play with a pure conscience.
 
The best word for this post is ASSUME:When you assume about something "like the economy and people in it" your likly to lose your MU and your faith in people when they take your shirt as well ! When you assume to know how someone is participating in the game your assumption is probably wrong and if the truth was known it would prove your an ass as well:yup:.
 
the world is based on assumption and speculation. hell i imagine 90% of what we do is for an assumed outcome that we think will happen. its what the stock market is based on also. assuming doesnt make an ass outta you contrary to popular belief. you may make an assholish comment because of an assumption. but the actual process of it is what makes us human , and gives us survival skills
 
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