Discuss claims that this game is a scam.

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http://virtualecon.blogspot.com/2007/12/project-entropia-scam.html

Project Entropia: scam?
I've been looking at some of the Second Life-type MMOG's lately and one big name is Project Entropia. One thing I noticed in many of the comments people make in response to press released concerning Entropia is that, similar to Second Life, the difficulty is not in making money within the virtual world but rather being able to cash out, once you've made it.

Here are a few of the enlightening responses from my research about Project Entropia and their more significant in-game auctions:

1. The game is a big scam , already targeted by the USA authorities for criminal activities. Also Mindark , the game company , is sued in an European Court for corruption and fraudulent relationships with some Entropia ” participants ” . Mindark’s basic investors are some shady ” businessmen ” located in Belize and Cayman islands , wich already are under investigations by FBI and CIA for money laundering and terrorists fundings. MasterCard already ceased to do business with Mindark and any serious Bank is now very carefull when about Mindark and Entropia. They are under the suspicions of ID theft as well. Just take care and beware.
Comment by Morinit — 1/6/2007 @ 3:29 pm

2. I used to play project entropia….

Years ago….since the times of beta and all the good rubberband effects of the time… A dupe bug did exist once upon a time, I remmember it still to this day (items duplicating all over the ground… in the thousands), I aquired thousands of peds worth in 1 trade, all Duped Gear then TTed… I have never deposited and never will, because i know this game is a scam, its true that mindark only gives the HOFs to swedish, or people who are their mates. It is possible to make a profit, that being said, you have to be careful, not to make too much of a profit so you stand out to them - they will shut you down, and you have to be really smart about how you talk to people and what you do, they do have allies in the game (their HOF mates) that will report you if you are doing something thats giving you an edge… I met a person in the game who had discovered a way to profit by a large margin, and he explained his system to me, afterwards I was making a large profit, and so was he.. eventually we both got permanently banned because we were hofing too much… I dont want to go into too much detail, but beware… If you are going to play PE, watch what you do, what you say, and how much you try to withdraw… And if you find something that is making you a decent profit… dont get greedy… they record everything you say.. Just keep quiet about any success you have, it could be your undoing, Good Luck
Comment by Mystery Man — 12/10/2006 @ 4:20 am

Here's my favorite one, posted back in 2006 as well. It's a great post and it explains the reasons why something like Project Entropis is unwelcoming to new comers and ought to be considered a money sink rather than a money maker. You can view all the comments/responses to the original article/blog post here:

3. After playing entropia for 8 months, the latest VU (version update) has really kiled the game …. allow me to explain. The first thing a player does in Entropia is collect sweat from animals and sell it to other players and indeed is how I started the game. The latest VU has taken the cap off this activity - resulting in nobody buying the players sweat. I have seen new players trying to sell for 3-4 hours, logging off and never returning. Result new players leaving very quickly and the starting town “Port Atlantis” looking like a ghost town.
Secondly the new VU has made everything — harder— crafting,hunting,mining— resulting in older players leaving daily. The ones who are stll playing have raised their prices on tools, weapons, etc, that are bought by players of lower lvl coming into the game, to keep their costs covered. The result is that prices are becoming untennable - MA hve priced them out the market.
The other reasons people are leaving (including myself), are the following….

a) - Over the last 6 months prices for raw materials have increased on average 10%-15%.
b)- With increased raw material costs and lower crafting success rates, this has resulted in items within the game increasing to incredulous prices.
c)- Auction rigging, reseller madness, and scamming are becoming common place now- as unseeing players try to cope with the increasing costs within the game.

Currently no new players are staying around, prices are constantly going up, older players are leaving daily. The main increase I noticed was for space flights to the asteroid. at first the price was 16 PED(1.60US one way), then 20 PED, and now advertised at 25 PED…. all witin 6 months.

RIP Entropia — The Gamers Lost- Beggerman ;-(

So yeah, if you were thinking about making money with Entropia, you should probably recast your question in terms of how much money you're willing to lose before ever seeing a dime. If you want to sell virtual currencies, you're probably going to have to trade legality for support: WoW gold is a much more profitable venture, unfortunately its a breach of the user agreement; Entropia is fully supported but is more of a sink than an earner. Ironic, isn't it?

Kind of a downer to see these things, especially after a bad night's hunt. People's accounts are randomly getting locked as well. I did also have some experience with my parent's credit card company refusing to let us make any payment to them. Maybe things would feel better if MA had some public relations going on, or at least just listened to what we said.

So what do you think... do these accusations have some merit or are these people just mad at the game?

Comments?
 
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The blog is nearly 2 years old , so imho it is not worth to discuss it nowadays.
The base mechanics are still valid but there has changed alot , especially the size of the playerbase.
just my 2pecs.
 
I would say, the time is speaking for itself - entropia still exists.

Some points in the (very old) posts are true, others completly bullshit.

Try to search for more actual comments.
 
That is 2 years old now..

If it was such a scam and MA were crooks and terroists under investigation by the CIA and FBI then I think they would have acted already.

Everywhere you look there are people that spent more than they could afford to lose, played badly and lost it all then blamed MA and called scam.

Even now people are too quick to point fingers and accuse MA of being greedy scammers.

I'm no fanboi and I dislike a lot of things MA have done but I wouldn't say they are scammers, ID thieves or terroists...

:laugh:
 
I'm not promoting them, and I don't wish to really discuss these comments in particular, I just want to debate the idea that this game is a "scam".

I personally think that its just people who misunderstand the concept of the game and come here looking to quit their full time job and ultimately walk away disappointed.
 
I'll go through the posts and answer as honestly as i can (based upon my memory and opinion).

Post 1
1. The game is a big scam , already targeted by the USA authorities for criminal activities. Also Mindark , the game company , is sued in an European Court for corruption and fraudulent relationships with some Entropia ” participants ” . Mindark’s basic investors are some shady ” businessmen ” located in Belize and Cayman islands , wich already are under investigations by FBI and CIA for money laundering and terrorists fundings. MasterCard already ceased to do business with Mindark and any serious Bank is now very carefull when about Mindark and Entropia. They are under the suspicions of ID theft as well. Just take care and beware.
Comment by Morinit — 1/6/2007 @ 3:29 pm


I think this is mostly bullcrap tbh, but there were some high profile players banned for using auto-hunting-bots before my time. Their accounts were locked and maybe this is the european court thing, but nothing afaik has ever reached court.

Post 2
2. I used to play project entropia….

Years ago….since the times of beta and all the good rubberband effects of the time… A dupe bug did exist once upon a time, I remmember it still to this day (items duplicating all over the ground… in the thousands), I aquired thousands of peds worth in 1 trade, all Duped Gear then TTed… I have never deposited and never will, because i know this game is a scam, its true that mindark only gives the HOFs to swedish, or people who are their mates. It is possible to make a profit, that being said, you have to be careful, not to make too much of a profit so you stand out to them - they will shut you down, and you have to be really smart about how you talk to people and what you do, they do have allies in the game (their HOF mates) that will report you if you are doing something thats giving you an edge… I met a person in the game who had discovered a way to profit by a large margin, and he explained his system to me, afterwards I was making a large profit, and so was he.. eventually we both got permanently banned because we were hofing too much… I dont want to go into too much detail, but beware… If you are going to play PE, watch what you do, what you say, and how much you try to withdraw… And if you find something that is making you a decent profit… dont get greedy… they record everything you say.. Just keep quiet about any success you have, it could be your undoing, Good Luck
Comment by Mystery Man — 12/10/2006 @ 4:20 am


Hmm the dupe bug i have heard told about but before my time, as for the profiting comments not sure about really. There are some players who profit afaik, but how many i wouldn't like to estimate.

Post 3
2. I used to play project entropia….

Years ago….since the times of beta and all the good rubberband effects of the time… A dupe bug did exist once upon a time, I remmember it still to this day (items duplicating all over the ground… in the thousands), I aquired thousands of peds worth in 1 trade, all Duped Gear then TTed… I have never deposited and never will, because i know this game is a scam, its true that mindark only gives the HOFs to swedish, or people who are their mates. It is possible to make a profit, that being said, you have to be careful, not to make too much of a profit so you stand out to them - they will shut you down, and you have to be really smart about how you talk to people and what you do, they do have allies in the game (their HOF mates) that will report you if you are doing something thats giving you an edge… I met a person in the game who had discovered a way to profit by a large margin, and he explained his system to me, afterwards I was making a large profit, and so was he.. eventually we both got permanently banned because we were hofing too much… I dont want to go into too much detail, but beware… If you are going to play PE, watch what you do, what you say, and how much you try to withdraw… And if you find something that is making you a decent profit… dont get greedy… they record everything you say.. Just keep quiet about any success you have, it could be your undoing, Good Luck
Comment by Mystery Man — 12/10/2006 @ 4:20 am

Here's my favorite one, posted back in 2006 as well. It's a great post and it explains the reasons why something like Project Entropis is unwelcoming to new comers and ought to be considered a money sink rather than a money maker. You can view all the comments/responses to the original article/blog post here:

3. After playing entropia for 8 months, the latest VU (version update) has really kiled the game …. allow me to explain. The first thing a player does in Entropia is collect sweat from animals and sell it to other players and indeed is how I started the game. The latest VU has taken the cap off this activity - resulting in nobody buying the players sweat. I have seen new players trying to sell for 3-4 hours, logging off and never returning. Result new players leaving very quickly and the starting town “Port Atlantis” looking like a ghost town.
Secondly the new VU has made everything — harder— crafting,hunting,mining— resulting in older players leaving daily. The ones who are stll playing have raised their prices on tools, weapons, etc, that are bought by players of lower lvl coming into the game, to keep their costs covered. The result is that prices are becoming untennable - MA hve priced them out the market.
The other reasons people are leaving (including myself), are the following….

a) - Over the last 6 months prices for raw materials have increased on average 10%-15%.
b)- With increased raw material costs and lower crafting success rates, this has resulted in items within the game increasing to incredulous prices.
c)- Auction rigging, reseller madness, and scamming are becoming common place now- as unseeing players try to cope with the increasing costs within the game.

Currently no new players are staying around, prices are constantly going up, older players are leaving daily. The main increase I noticed was for space flights to the asteroid. at first the price was 16 PED(1.60US one way), then 20 PED, and now advertised at 25 PED…. all witin 6 months.

RIP Entropia — The Gamers Lost- Beggerman ;-(


As far as I remember 2006 brought about many changes to EU, this was i think when the amp nerf was introduced which was quite unpopular (At the start of which there were no (L) weaps). So many who had hunted with Opalo and A104-A106 amps were kinda stuffed. Also the roll out of (L) started to roll out that year i think so many had bad feelings towards MA/EU.
Inflation was kinda crazy around that time after the CND boom bringing in new players, but at the same time A101-A103 were tt food. :D

End post

So yeah, if you were thinking about making money with Entropia, you should probably recast your question in terms of how much money you're willing to lose before ever seeing a dime. If you want to sell virtual currencies, you're probably going to have to trade legality for support: WoW gold is a much more profitable venture, unfortunately its a breach of the user agreement; Entropia is fully supported but is more of a sink than an earner. Ironic, isn't it?

Posted by David Price at 12:32 PM


Depends how you play really, some trade to make play ped, others look at mark up mobs/mining area's, crafting bp's to make a profit. But of course not all can win, for every winner there is a loser somewhere in EU. As for gold farming i understand that this can be quite profitable, but as far as EU goes i just try to play as smart as i can and make any deposit last.

All the posts seem to be 2006-7 during the big change over, also i think the physicsX update came around that time (it was bad- Alphageek is all i will say :D).
 
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The blog is nearly 2 years old , so imho it is not worth to discuss it nowadays.
The base mechanics are still valid but there has changed alot , especially the size of the playerbase.
just my 2pecs.

Exactly... 2 years old article
 
it's not a scam, and anyone who still believes any of that shit is just :handjob:
 
The post is really very old. Too old, but as the underlying economics remains largely the same some points can be made. I'll try a bit.

the difficulty is not in making money within the virtual world but rather being able to cash out, once you've made it
I have tried.. I can put in money with credit card in 1 minute, but had to wait withdrawal to happen for over a month :silly: Anyway, eventually exactly requested amount (minus fees ofc) appeared to my bank account.

Mindark’s basic investors are some shady ” businessmen ” located in Belize and Cayman islands , wich already are under investigations by FBI and CIA for money laundering and terrorists fundings.
Apparently FBI and CIA are extremely slow to confirm the validity of these claims, as the game is still here. :rolleyes:

its true that mindark only gives the HOFs to swedish, or people who are their mates
I am from Finland, and I have got many many HOFs. My Finnish friends have got many, many HOFs. I have even got a 8000+ PED überHOF. That is what I know of that.

I met a person in the game who had discovered a way to profit by a large margin, and he explained his system to me, afterwards I was making a large profit, and so was he.. eventually we both got permanently banned because we were hofing too much…
There has been cases of acting against EULA. Like at one time there was chance to melee without powerfists/axes breaking down (quickly fixed). Autoclicking has always been prohibited. Things like these could be reason for ban. But about 'a way to profit by large margin' .. after these 5 years I am still to find a person either ingame or these forums willing to explain 'system' like that to me.. If such existed, which I seriously doubt, no one would explain it to anyone he/she does not know intimately.

The latest VU has taken the cap off this activity - resulting in nobody buying the players sweat. I have seen new players trying to sell for 3-4 hours, logging off and never returning.
Thats people who expect to get free money playing EU. This is still part of the sad aftermath of some rather misleading advertisement that has been around EU, and former Project Entropia. MindArk can be blaimed for this. Removal of sweat cap was a sad event for many sweaters, who from now on could not live as easily by sweating. But it stopped ppl making more and more fake avatars just for sweating.

Result new players leaving very quickly and the starting town “Port Atlantis” looking like a ghost town.
In late VU9 It still did not look like a ghost town. Well, its wasn't as crowded as it used to be, but that is because sweaters had mostly moved to north to 'sweat camp', or to Amethera near Nea's post, as far as I know. Now in VU10.x the geographics are of course completely different.

resulting in older players leaving daily
They have always left. Or having a break. Who knows? New people do come, apparently, as the game is still around.

prices are becoming untennable
Yes, they are unbelievably high, at least the oldschool unlimited items. I guess my official opinion on this would be, that something should be done to this. Even though it is still possible to hunt (my main profession and prime example in many ways, as its matter of weapons, attachments, and armor) with limited edition, one-time-use tools any size of pray.

Auction rigging, reseller madness, and scamming are becoming common place now
The phenomenons I believe are common in every game there exists trade. Just so common in said wow to empty auction of some item, then resell it back later at higher prices. Scamming is tried everywhere. Its not EUs fault.
 
Just to confirm but wasn't 2006-2007 Amp changes and PhysicsX period?

Just making sure my memory is ok.:laugh:
 
The blog is nearly 2 years old , so imho it is not worth to discuss it nowadays.
The base mechanics are still valid but there has changed alot , especially the size of the playerbase.
just my 2pecs.

Two years old, but still relevant. After all, the claims of HoFs only going to buddies of MA keep popping up.
 
1) I hate to agree with Kimmi. You coming or going? lol
2) Neat articles.
3) I withdraw monthly and it works everytime.

Did it ever occur to anyone that other games probably send out asshats to bash EU on the forum in hopes that EU will die? Between them and people who poorly invested their money or got really unlucky in EU and now hate it, I'm sure 711 has his hands full.
 
Just another thought, 4 people out of all the registered accounts is kinda not bad.

4/800k?
 
Hi,

i know many players who withdraw big amount pf peds
All receive money very fast in a period of 1-2 week.

Few years ago Mindark announced a debit/cash card,
I started deposiet in the game because MindArk announced this cash card.
After Ma cancelled the card but you can wihdraw with normal way.

Its finish the time of swedish Ath, now its warants :) joke


Its easy to create a post with serious charges, it's just words.
It's not because i write " nono have a big...." that's is true :)
must be argued or show serious articles made by a journalist

Like for the "big ....." i can show a picture made with a lens "wide angle"
or a "microscop".

hehehe
Ok i log off
it's time :)
 
I have withdrawn way more than I put in and still have over 100k peds worth of stuff left in game,

If it is a scam its not a very good one.
 
Well, the antagonist gives himself away by throwing around words like 'terrorist funding' - that's a phrase used to catch public opinion, since it works no matter if it's true or not.
 
Well, the antagonist gives himself away by throwing around words like 'terrorist funding' - that's a phrase used to catch public opinion, since it works no matter if it's true or not.

did bush wrote that comment ? lool
 
I have seen many such comments, and many of them come from disgruntled players that spent too much money expecting to get rich quick and were dissapointed when they lost it all in a few days or weeks.

Many of those comments are just plain wrong, while others might have a hint of truth in them. The problem is that it is easy to make accusations like those without following them up with proof.

If I remember correctly MA was involved in some court cases, but it was many years ago and do not remember what they were about. Maybe some of the EU dinosaurs can remember. :)

Cheers :beerchug:

After a quick Google:
From 2005: http://www.gamershell.com/companies/mindark/220681.html
 
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That article is a juicy collection of bs. Looks like players who stayed around for 1-2 months and who killed in their wildest moment a combibo or, the real hardcore ones, a cornundos.
 
i have not read the replies, but what *i think* is this.


you will NEVER 'profit' in eu as a casual player.

there is no 'if you get lucky', there is no BS. This is NOT a casino!



You are playing a game, bottom line.


MA is NOT stupid.

Are you an expert in what you do, IRL?

I am.

MA is too.


*******

There are people here who have put over 10,000 hours into *playing* this game, and some have spent 10s of thousands of dollars. I tell you now, a vast majority are not in profit. Do you think you will be, if you try hard enough? You are wrong.

There are a very small amount of ways to profit here, and none of them have anything to do with *playing the game*. This, i think, is one of MA's biggest mistakes in its advertising scheme. Players *think* that they can profit here by regular play, when they join, when in reality it is impossible unless you are a big investor(aka land owner, ND, extremely devoted, etc).



this is probably the 500th thread I've read about this same subject, and I've only been here for 2 months...... I'm not trying to point anyone out or start drama or anything, and this isn't necessarily directed at this thread, or this threads OP, I'm just trying to say how it is, how i see it, personally, and completely unbiased. I feel that what i say here needs to be known to the general public, sorry if I'm stepping on any ones shoes.... I'm sorry, but there is just too much anger and misunderstandings here to sit quiet :)


cheers....


-3J
 
i have not read the replies, but what *i think* is this.

I have not read this post, but what *i think* is this.

It's probably the same as has been said already by someone, somewhere.

:)
 
well i hope so ;)
 
That article is a juicy collection of bs. Looks like players who stayed around for 1-2 months and who killed in their wildest moment a combibo or, the real hardcore ones, a cornundos.

Indeed. Several of such claims on various forums come from people that didn`t get past sweating or hunting a combibo. Haven`t had the chance to really get into the system and figure it out.
 
How to harm an internet business

Rule 1: Describe a random internet business in some short sentences, throw in the word Cayman Islands (Belize works too) and its down to its knees before you have to state any details or facts.

Facts? -maybe MA/FPC can comment?

Rule 2: State that a bug or cheat exists that completely bypasses/undermines the system but not how it works. The harm you cause wit these kinds of statements is infinite.

In 3 years of hardcore gaming EU and knowing many people around i have never even heard of such a bug and i have seen too many ubahs cursing to believe something like this exists.

Facts?

Rule 3: Keeping general about the internet business by showing it from a very distinct position, example:

If you are going to play PE, watch what you do, what you say, and how much you try to withdraw… dont get greedy… they record everything you say.. Just keep quiet about any success you have, it could be your undoing, Good Luck

If you are going to play PE, watch what you do -of course!
- ...what you say -yes indeed!
- ...and how much you try to withdraw… -a valid point in a competition!

And if you find something that is making you a decent profit…
- ...dont get greedy! -yes you will regret it in 99% of the cases

from a distinct position you can show everything in the light you want. I could have said the same words to a disciple after explaining the steerings. watch what ou do and what you say -sure!

and watch how much you try to withdraw - do you play it for fun or for the bucks?

dont get greedy is one of the basic rules of the game, he is right, why does his post invoke such a suspicious fact by that? because of:

2. I used to play project entropia….

Years ago….since the times of beta and all the good rubberband effects of the time… A dupe bug did exist once upon a time, I remmember it still to this day (items duplicating all over the ground… in the thousands), I aquired thousands of peds worth in 1 trade, all Duped Gear then TTed… I have never deposited and never will, because i know this game is a scam, its true that mindark only gives the HOFs to swedish, or people who are their mates. It is possible to make a profit, that being said, you have to be careful, not to make too much of a profit so you stand out to them - they will shut you down, and you have to be really smart about how you talk to people and what you do, they do have allies in the game (their HOF mates) that will report you if you are doing something thats giving you an edge… I met a person in the game who had discovered a way to profit by a large margin, and he explained his system to me, afterwards I was making a large profit, and so was he.. eventually we both got permanently banned because we were hofing too much… I dont want to go into too much detail, but beware…

Rule 4: Lie!

I used to play project entropia….

no, you tried to fuck the system and got banned for it!

---

so much to the rules, well here comes some more:

After playing entropia for 8 months, the latest VU (version update) has really kiled the game …. allow me to explain. The first thing a player does in Entropia is collect sweat from animals and sell it to other players and indeed is how I started the game. The latest VU has taken the cap off this activity - resulting in nobody buying the players sweat.

... and it fell down .35! Well it should be back to 1.4 today a price i have never seen before in 3 years of EU. -its dynamic!

---

Another rule 3 example:

a) - Over the last 6 months prices for raw materials have increased on average 10%-15%.
b)- With increased raw material costs and lower crafting success rates, this has resulted in items within the game increasing to incredulous prices.
c)- Auction rigging, reseller madness, and scamming are becoming common place now- as unseeing players try to cope with the increasing costs within the game.

Currently no new players are staying around, prices are constantly going up, older players are leaving daily. The main increase I noticed was for space flights to the asteroid. at first the price was 16 PED(1.60US one way), then 20 PED, and now advertised at 25 PED…. all witin 6 months.

Sounds prety much like a golden age to me!...i could go on and on!

In my opinion EU is the hardest computer game in the world and thats why i love it. The effort you need to spend in it is immense and whatever you do, you must be useful in the bigger plan to be succesful.
 
....and yet another thread made for earning EFD's :handjob:..... or maybe I just misunderstood the intentions :hammer: ;)
 
Yesterday you wanted a mentor and today you wanna talk about if Entropia is a scam....

Do you want to cry or play? :rolleyes:

Oh noes. I had to +rep Kimmi. :eek: I hate giving him +rep. :ahh:

What Kimmi said. :thumbup:
 
So what do you think... do these accusations have some merit or are these people just mad at the game??

I think these "accusations" are the result of frustrated players who act out on their own short-comings by trying to convince the world "it's not me, it's you".
 
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