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Do Sweater make MA money?

Lexxy

Lexxy

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Nadia Lexxy Chey
After reading yet another post on EF, basically stating that player who sweat for ped do not make money for ma, and thus are less important than those who deposit, I decided to take a closer look at the phenomena.

While it is true that the only investment made when sweating is time, the sweat itself has no real value. Until that is you sell it to another player.

Now regardless of where this player may have obtained there ped, at some point it had to have been deposited into the game.

Since the only thing sweat is good for is ME, and this is consumed by players using there mind force chips, which decay along with the implant, the implanter that was used to implant... you get the picture, then in reality sweaters are most surely making money for MA.

Without them we would not be able to use MF.

In fact since it consts on average a lot more to use MF than anything else in the game, sweaters are some of the largest money makes for MA there are.

So lets give these brave people a break and accept that the only people in EU that do not make MA money are those who do not participate at all beyond chatting.

JMHO
Lexxy
 
I like your train of thought on this subject. I have recently taken a break from depositing (Mainly because i cannot play as much atm) and so while away the time i do have sweating whilst chatting to Soc mates and others running around in a Halo of green.

Of course some where along the line MA will make money from sweaters as even making the ME MA will get money from Miners getting the Nexus. (probes and decay on equipment, ammo and weapon decay from protecting yourself)

Then the auction fees for the nexus (yes you could do private sales)

The decay on the refiner for mixing nexus and sweat

and finally the decay on the MF Chips and implants used (Oh and auction fees again selling ME on Auction)

So in a round about way with out sweaters MA would lose some PED income from all the ppl that use MF

+Rep
 
You logic makes sense, though I would argue against the statement that "sweaters are some of the largest money makes for MA there are" .

The revenue generation that may play a more important role in your question is related to advertising revenue. We have all seen the ad screens for real world items, hamburgers, movies, etc.

I imagine that MA has to supply to these advertisers numbers of concurrent users, or average number of users online at certain time frames when these ads are run.

Sweaters are definately important to make these numbers higher, which would theoretically allow MA to sell the ads for more money than if they were not present.

All a guess of course, but seems logical to me ..
 
Had not even thought of the adds in game... In that case Sweaters are even more important, they add to the number of active accounts, which allow ma to sell more adds... ;)
 
MA makes money from people doing activities that cost money. So things like tping, shooting, crafting, using space craft, suing auction etc. Everything you pay (tt wise, and only when you actually use it, so when you shoot, not when you buy ammo) goes in to the (or a) lootpool, minus a % for MA.
So MA earns money from people who use tools etc. The more u spend on this, the more MA makes. So when a uber hunts for 1500 ped a day, MA makes say 1% of 1500 = 15 ped. Even if the uber profits 2000 ped a day (mostly markup)

I don't know which costs a sweat has, but I think most have zero costs. They dont use a tp chip, no auction, no fap, no armor and no gun. So MA makes nothing. It's only a way to say you can truly play for free.

Ok you you say, people are finishing off the dry mobs and fapping noobs. MA is making money on that, but i don't think those people wouldn't have fapped or shot if there were no sweaters. They are just skilin FA, or hunting which they would have done otherwise.

SO i think MA doesn;t make money of sweaters directly. They make money because some of those sweaters going to hunt etc later on.
 
There are also the people who camp out at the sweating spots, skilling up first-aid by healing the sweaters when they revive, or skilling their MF by healing/focusing.
They also contribute to MA, even thought they are not sweaters.

So yes, I get your point, Sweaters do make a contribution, thought it's perhaps made 3rd hand.
 
I'd tend to agree with the original poster.

NOT only because the sweat they sell is used, but also (or better: more so) because the buyer now spends his time doing more expensive stuff, bringing money to MA.
 
chielsen said:
I don't know which costs a sweat has, but I think most have zero costs. They dont use a tp chip, no auction, no fap, no armor and no gun. So MA makes nothing. It's only a way to say you can truly play for free.
Click to expand...
well, you miss the focus chips here

even if the sweater himself doesnt use it, at swamp camp are many focussers

and if there is ANYTHING more useless than a focus charge, except to MF users, especially to name sweating, you can spend the cash, i havent seen it yet i guess
maybe notes, ok ;)

and for sure sweaters make MA money, i mean, ME is sold at 220% ?
who buys that?
just the whole chain from the actual MF users, with terrible eco chips (hunting with NB, ugh, i borrowed a FS chip once as well, thats ped draining³)
so those ppl waste a lot of cash

and now to "they don't use things"
really?

even if you take the whole stuff away around that, like fappers, focussers, healers, whatever

they sweat to get cash (well, most), to buy their equipment
this sweat (or ME in the end) was paid by a depositer overall

now if he starts to sell the lyst he found while mining, the pixie etc while mining with markup, that was paid by a depositer
that one hasn't maybe deposited if he hadn't needed the ME to TP around...

ah, TP chips
thats a useless thing as well
you spend cash to get faster from A-B ;)
pretty much cash even

what amount of money that can generate you can see easily
simply ask around who has a car
what do you do with a car?
drive around and fuel up?
exactly

and for that service, to get faster from A-B, ppl are willing to pay(deposit) for the ME needed for that

even if the sweater itself doesn't deposit (which is money for MA), a lot of ppl around him will
 
chielsen said:
I don't know which costs a sweat has, but I think most have zero costs. They dont use a tp chip, no auction, no fap, no armor and no gun. So MA makes nothing. It's only a way to say you can truly play for free.

Ok you you say, people are finishing off the dry mobs and fapping noobs. MA is making money on that, but i don't think those people wouldn't have fapped or shot if there were no sweaters. They are just skilin FA, or hunting which they would have done otherwise.

SO i think MA doesn;t make money of sweaters directly. They make money because some of those sweaters going to hunt etc later on.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I think the logic is slightly flawed to say that sweaters make money for MA, except (as mentioned above) as active accounts to boost ad revenue, in a 3rd hand way or when they actually buy/use ammo etc with the peds from selling sweat.
 
100k sweat sucks ~500 peds from depositing players.
It costs MA 1 PED to give to the sweaters (in tt value)
It costs MA 100 PED in server strain, lag issues, sweat related developer resources, balancing issues and other running costs

It maybe generates 10 PED decay for MA... But it's not really the sweat that do that... It's the person USING the ME, not the sweater.
The sweater is just leaching money from the paying players.


Now don't get me wrong... I don't mind sweaters at all.
But their real justification, is that sweating sucks in new players who start off playing for free, and then get hooked and starts paying. ;)

(Ok... Numbers are probably way off, but not important... Just making a point here)
 
Vedder said:
100k sweat sucks ~500 peds from depositing players.
It costs MA 1 PED to give to the sweaters (in tt value)
It costs MA 100 PED in server strain, lag issues, sweat related developer resources, balancing issues and other running costs

It maybe generates 10 PED decay for MA... But it's not really the sweat that do that... It's the person USING the ME, not the sweater.
The sweater is just leaching money from the paying players.


Now don't get me wrong... I don't mind sweaters at all.
But their real justification, is that sweating sucks in new players who start off playing for free, and then get hooked and starts paying. ;)

(Ok... Numbers are probably way off, but not important... Just making a point here)
Click to expand...

I almost agree with you, although I'm not sure where you get the 100 peds in server, balancing, etc (probably there is some thread on that that I ignore or maybe you are just giving a general number to illustrate). But otherwise the leaching point is valid. If there was no sweat then MA would be around 150% (i believe nexus is 140% or so, so a little over that). Basically MA "bleeds" money out of the people who use teleport chips (a luxury used to get quicker to places) to the poor people in game. Its almost beautiful from a socialist point of view....

And also, I don't mind sweaters at all, I was a sweater for months and I still enjoy seeing them room about getting killed.... EU wouldn't be the same place without them!!
 
I have ...

... one more view point to possibly contribute here as well...

The amount of contribution your "sweater" offers to MA's bottom line is not always limited to "the time he spends sweating". While I suppose there are some sweaters out there who are likely sweating just so they can stockpile their cash and then move on to trying to corner the Force Nexus market for instance, many other sweaters are sweating just so they can pay for their weapon to be repaired... or to buy more ammo.

Which they then faithfully take out to go hunting, and spend in an effort to advance their hunting (or mining, I guess) skills, so that they can eventually Qualify, etc.

At which point, the amount of decay they offer MA becomes a whole lot more than just the support-services spent on helping them sweat.

Just a thought.
 
Sweat sales draw in ped to the economy, and yes indirectly they create decay from ME usage. Most I think recycle the ped they get into the system, ammo repairs or whatever. One thing i don't see though is sweaters being "leeches", they are providing a service which any of us could do ourselves but choose not to if we buy.
 
the service is a quite good point

again my car example

you could all use your own feet to get to work, or whatever
that takes time?
so get a car (tp chip) and fuel (ME)?

might be not the best example, but still, i see it quite fitting

although i have a minor heal, sweat for my ME myself, and get the nexus myself with mining, i use it very very rarely

if you don't, and tp around like mad, i doubt you are in the right position to get on the nerves of sweaters ;)
 
Sweators do make MA money, maybe not directly or at first. But they do make MA money...

Small amounts do add up...

- Nightwolf
 
Sweaters are somewhat like services in the real economy. Important but difficult to measure in terms of impact.

The impact they have certainly extends beyond the PED they get from depositors and how they spend it - even beyond the decay on MF items from users.

Consider my case. Play a fair amount, mine mostly and so I like to be able to hop around a lot - my MF use is limited to my TP chip which is small bucks for MA BUT - I don't like to waste the time I do have sweating myself.

I guess to meet my needs I'd need to put in a couple of hours a week sweating - which would be a couple of hours when I was contributing very little to the economy in ammo spend or decay.

Instead I buy my sweat and those couple of hours see me spending a couple of hundred PED in bombs, ammo and decay etc. Thats what's really interesting for MA and the economy.

Sweaters up the time the rest of us spend contributing to MA's profit :laugh:
 
Aw please... Come on. :rolleyes:

SWEATERS COST MA MONEY
Sorry to burst your nice bubble here... But sweaters are not performing some great service for MA or for the community.
Sweaters leach on the economy. Live with it.
MA could just make sweat available in the TT and be done with it. There's no real need for sweaters.


But why is sweating here then?
Because if just 1 of 1000 sweaters get 'hooked' on EU and start depositing, it's a very good investment for MA.
Brilliant move by MA to introduce sweating. But don't kid yourself into thinking it's a terribly important service the sweaters perform.
It's here to get people hooked. Period.
 
I agree with author of this thread!

We should be more kind for the sweaters...a specially uber's who are mostly everytime rude to them and kill each "sweating" post with bad words :(

I know that it's difference to deposit and to not. But remember, sweating is not easy job...you cannot plug in autoclick on it (alomost impossible) - but we know that plenty pf crafters do that doing components. So you have to spend a lot of time to do that boring thing to earn some cash.

Like I said in few post in past, it's not obviuously for everybody, that for part of players 10 USD depo is not small amount. Not everybody live on the high economical country, and earn more than 10 $ per hour...

And dont tell me that if somebody have Internet connection and computer to play is able to do that...sometimes not.

However sweaters keep economy in hads as well, and its obviosly.

At the end...try to do seating for yourself needs, i think that you will be very nervous with that after 1k of sweat :)

So let to do their job and be happy that is somebody who can do that.

RESPECT FOR SWEATERS;)
 
MA makes money of depositing players, not sweaters. its as simple as that.
 
Dunn said:
MA makes money of depositing players, not sweaters. its as simple as that.
Click to expand...

Nope, it isn't that simple.
I think the many posts above yours illustrate that point.
 
People who sweat make MA money.

Ok they take up bandwidth and they basically get sweat from mobs for their time. That sweat is used to make ME(refiner decay makes MA money) which is sold and used. The ME that is used generates decay from the items(MF chips) that use it which makes MA money. Auction fees for selling ME go into the loot system.

Now if there was not an army of sweat gatherers then I would spend a fair amount of my time sweating instead of hunting and when I hunt it generates a fair amount of decay now compound that across the board for anyone that hunts or mines for the majority of their time plus most use TP chips these days to get around which adds to the ME churn. Nexus would also not have a markup or a % associated with it if people did not buy it to make ME again auction fees go back into the system and MA gets decay from finders and drillers.

Ok now a good amount of participants who sweat will probably recycle their peds made from sweating back into the loot system if they try hunting(decay), mining(decay), or crafting(some sort of decay like system).

Sweat gatherers do play for free in a sense but they do add value to community. Those who sign on hop around or chit chat actually take up bandwidth without any contribution.

Now I know people are going to say they just sweat farm and take the peds out and yeah I am sure there are those who do this but we have some jerky resellers out there constantly jacking prices for no good reason leaching more money and adding less value to the system (other than high prices).

So while sweat gatherers are getting a freebie. I see it as time is money and they spend great amounts of time gathering sweat so I don't have to. If it gives them a "toe hold" in EU thats fine because eventually some will deposit while others may continue to sweat and churn that ME. If MF gains huge popularity when and if MA does the update the freebie sweat gather will become and even more revelant cog in the EU machine. I started out sweat gathering as many who deposit/deposited did and play daily churning decay and the loot system. I am sure there are many who sweat gather who will aspire to move on and make MA even more cash.

We are all cogs in the EU machine some give more than they take others take more than they give. Its just like rl in that aspect.
 
Vedder said:
100k sweat sucks ~500 peds from depositing players.
It costs MA 1 PED to give to the sweaters (in tt value)
It costs MA 100 PED in server strain, lag issues, sweat related developer resources, balancing issues and other running costs

It maybe generates 10 PED decay for MA... But it's not really the sweat that do that... It's the person USING the ME, not the sweater.
The sweater is just leaching money from the paying players.


Now don't get me wrong... I don't mind sweaters at all.
But their real justification, is that sweating sucks in new players who start off playing for free, and then get hooked and starts paying. ;)

(Ok... Numbers are probably way off, but not important... Just making a point here)
Click to expand...

haha, I agree neither your view nor the original post ...why ?

In my view, it 's the existance of sweat & it's relationship the Focus nexus / mindforce skills that actually make money for MA.

Players buy sweat from sweaters because want to , MF skill /chip usage is optional. If you collected all your own sweat you would not be using ped that had been deposited ..correct? However, to use that sweat it will still cost you some ped ...as everyone has suggested in decay on refiners.chips implants etc, FN purchase /mining.

The action of sweating is free...after it can start to cost ped but that is players choice
 
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To me it really is simple.. If all players in EU only sweated and didn't deposit then there would be no money for MA.
ergo: sweaters do not give money to MA.

btw, i would like to say that i think sweaters are a useful and valid part of EU and i actually pay higher than market price for the sweat i buy.
 
wow... talking about flawed logic. If all animals were fish, all animals would swim... not all animals are fish, therefore, no animal can swim....

If all people in EU would only sweat, nobody would be buying sweat, and there wouldn't be a reason to sweat for people.

Those who think sweaters contribute nothing are using a to narrow scope on things. It is not about the individual, it is about the contribution of the individual to the whole.

Let me try an example:
we got 2 people who deposit

1 person who burns 500 PED an hour
1 person who burns 5 ped an hour

and we got one sweater.

the person burning 5 ped an hour, plays for an hour, and spends... 5 PED.
the person burning 500 ped an hour, plays for an hour, buys the sweat he needs from our sweaty-friend, and burns 500 PED.

Now, let's take out the sweaty friend.

the person burning 5 ped an hour, plays for another hour, and spends.. 5 PED
the person burning 500 ped an hour, can't do what he likes to do ,so spends half an hour sweating, and this sweat, he uses to play for the remaining half hour. Burning only 250 PED.

Total burn of PED:
with sweaty friend: 505
without sweaty friend: 255.

And you still think the sweater doesn't make a difference to MA...?

Sweaters contribute, it is really THAT non-simple.

Confused?
Try reading up on system dynamics, or even some Adam Smith might help.
 
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Wollongong said:
the person burning 5 ped an hour, plays for another hour, and spends.. 5 PED
the person burning 500 ped an hour, can't do what he likes to do ,so spends half an hour sweating, and this sweat, he uses to play for the remaining half hour. Burning only 250 PED.

Total burn of PED:
with sweaty friend: 505
without sweaty friend: 255.
Click to expand...

This is your logic :scratch2:

If MA was concerned about losing revenue this way they could simply make sweat available at the tt or as another enmatter element.

As is posted above, MA can profit from sweaters by increased advertising revenue from a larger base of active players or by people that start the game sweating and later decide to deposit.


I also stated above that i do believe sweaters to be a valid part of EU and even support them by paying over market value for the sweat i buy.
If i am mining or hunting and i see a sweater i will often run over and focus them.

So to keep it really simple for you.

Do i think sweaters generate peds for MA ? No

Do i think sweaters contribute to the EU community ? Yes

And thank you for your suggested reading material :rolleyes:
 
Vedder said:
Once it was common belief that the earth was flat...
15 wrong posts, doesn't change reality. :wise:


;)
Click to expand...

Let's see if I can put this in terms you may accept.

When I ran my shop, I sponsored pledge drives for the local public radio station. If a listener of the station pledged a certain amount to the station, they could choose as their "gift" a coupon to my store entitling them to a store credit.

My hope was to acquire customers in a cost effective way.

"The leeches" as you put it would come in, use their store credit, leave & I would never see them again. Cost to me: Wholesale of the the product they selected plus labor.

Benefits - The radio station:

The were able to keep the full value of the pledge while offering a "premium".

The customer/pledger:

Offset some of the cost of their pledge. They were out the full value of their cash contribution minus a tax deduction, if applicable.

To me: I got lots of mentions for my shop on the air. Much more effective than regular advertising. I got some very loyal customers. The dj's would recommend my shop if people called them looking for music. The "leeches" were loss leaders. It happened. Still, even with the leeches, it was probably my most effective advertising.

Mall owners don't hire Britney Spears for an appearance hoping to get her as a customer. They do so to bring in customers. The cost of her appearance is apparently worth it as mall appearances by celebs has remained popular for decades.

MA certainly might have some sweaters who sell and withdraw but I find that as unlikely. You need at least $100.00 USD for a withdrawal. More likely, they may sell sweat, hunt for a while, get bored and quit. The sweat would still be used by MF users.

Do you really think MA would be better off having proven depositors running around for hours gathering sweat while they would usually engaged in some activity which costs them money? I think not.

I'm sure MA just sees non-depositor sweaters as a loss leader, but worth it overall. They did remove the sweat limit last year. There must be some benefit to MA or they would have left the sweat limit in place or barred non-depositors. Instead, they lifted the sweat cap.
 
I already answered this, but ok... One more time, then I'll leave you all to your delusions, that getting free money is really helping MA and the community.

Strangelove said:
...
Do you really think MA would be better off having proven depositors running around for hours gathering sweat while they would usually engaged in some activity which costs them money? I think not.
...
Click to expand...
Nope... But like I said, it'd be simpler and cheaper for MA and the community to make sweat available in the TT, or simply allow Nexus to be refined directly into ME.
But there's a reason why it's not like that...

Strangelove said:
...
I'm sure MA just sees non-depositor sweaters as a loss leader, but worth it overall. They did remove the sweat limit last year. There must be some benefit to MA or they would have left the sweat limit in place or barred non-depositors. Instead, they lifted the sweat cap.
Click to expand...
I already told you why sweating is in EU...
It draws in a lot of people and allow them to play for free, while they find friends and get used to the virtual universe.
The cost for MA is very low, so if only a few of the sweaters starts depositing (and they do), then it's a fantastic investment for MA.


Ok, I'll stop stating the obvious now... If you still wanna believe otherwise, go ahead. ;)

And btw... I don't mind sweaters at all.
I used to gather sweat for quite a long time myself (Now I wish I had deposited earlier, while gear were cheaper and skilling faster).

But that doesn't change the fact that sweating costs money for MA, and only reason sweating is here, is to get people hooked.
 
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