Do you hate non-depositers?

[Nebu]

I think I need to add some of my thoughts to this thread too. So here we go:
I am a non-depositor. You can hate me now. But let me tell you some things.
First, I joined this game because of the fact it was free. Not that I dont have any money IRL, I could probably get enough together to buy a set of Angel and a nice gun but why should I? I would go hunt bigger mobs, and loose more then when I hunt small mobs. I dont need armor when hunting for skills or economic hunts.
So, I dont need the best guns, of course it would be nice to get some good equipment, but the lower-level is fine as well.
Second, I dont plan to withdraw. Not now, not in the future, not when I quit. I will probably split all my stuff and peds between my best friends, those who have helped me get to where I am now.
Third, I dont resell. I trade occasionaly, but not a lot as its no fun. For some people might be fun and a nice source of income, but not for me. I dont think I am having any effect on the economy.
Fourth, can you think of the effect if no new non-depositors came? The price of sweat would probably rise a lot, as there would be not many new sweaters. Sure, there would be new players who can sweat, but do you think they will when they deposit? Oh, and btw, I have not reached the sweat cap yet after nearly 7 months of playing.
Fifth, I challenge everyone, who doesnt like non-depositors, to go make a new account (well its forbidden, so no chance ) and try to live as a non-depositor yourself. You will see its hard to get some peds to buy a bit ammo, and then it flies away faster then you expect it.
Enuff said, flame me now, I dont care
Nebu

 

[Von]

First of all the word "hate" shouldnt be used, no one should hate anyone here.

Now having said that, lets get another thing straight about some of the wrong words being used here, and thats the word "free".

Nothing in this world is free, everything has a cost and a benefit associated. Anyone that claims something is "free", which inludeds businesses, are ignorant or liars. I have a habit when I see a business advertise something for free, not to do business with, for they are liars and why would I want to do business with anyone that lies right up front.

Its no different in this game called a Virtual Universe. Just because its a free download doesnt mean there is no cost associated with it. MA spends considerable sums of money for us to connect to them. There is equipment cost, employment costs and most of all bandwith costs, to bring this Virtual Universe to you.

So lets cut to the chase...anyone who doesnt deposit, or has never deposited, removes money form the players that deposit. There is no other way of looking at it. I think its one of the bigges drawbacks in this game, MA should let people download and look around, but they should have never enabled anyone to earn anything, unless they are willing to put some money in the pot.

My opinion.....

Von

 

[gekkegerrit]

time is money therefore money is time

fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to the darkside

most millionaires on this planet started out as poor people.. go figure


edit...

got the yoda words mixed up on the second line, im still not sure if its the right order, now i'll have to watch episode 5 again

 

[Fade]

Saying that non-depositors hurt the economy is to presume that if there was more money going around, that MA would take a smaller percentage for themselves.

However, a good business will always try to optimize its profits. They may lose some depositors, but it has not been enough to make MA change how they operate....so if there was more money in play, I would just expect them to take a bigger cut....why shouldn't they? If they get investors, don't you think investors want higher returns?...they don't care that a game is affordable, fair, or anything for that matter... just profitable. Now, if the mechanics of the game start to tick off players to such an extent that they leave and revenues go down.... you will see a quick change.

I have a feeling that the odds are exactly where MA wants them to be....in spite of how easy it is to lose peds right now...we all keep depositing....and in doing so, we say we support and enjoy the product.

I hope you non-depositors don't feel too much dislike... I think most of us don't mind you one bit...even respect you for having the patience we don't have.

Nobody should vent against the NonDeps personally... they are playing the game that was advertised to them as 'free', and the traders are the only ones that consistently do what is advertised as 'make real money while playing a game'.

So, it is ok to discuss whether MA should change, but don't be a player hater... .live an let live.. as long as it is within the rules. (i.e. personally, I think ubers ruin the game, and with MA would get rid of them ).... ok... jk.

The question is: Will MA ever change its stance on NonDepers?... I seriously doubt it.... they need to keep giving free samples so they can catch that 1% that gets hooked. Or perhaps you want MA to eliminate trade in the game (and therfor the economy), or you want to allow them to seriously infringe on your avatars freedom of commerce.... sorry, but I don't think that will happen.

We will just have to live with those in the family that are smarter and more patient than we are, who somehow find it entertaining to sit at the auction or sweat snables all day. Personally... I don't have what it takes.

 

[valiant]

So lets cut to the chase...anyone who doesnt deposit, or has never deposited, removes money form the players that deposit.

Von

Hmmmm......but are non-depositers the only ones who remove money from the other players? I met a miner once who built up some skills over time (both game 'skills' and just ordinary experience of playing). He now knows the best places to mine and he regularly tells me that he's making a profit from mining. If I believe him, isn't he effectively removing money from other players by making this profit?..........albeit as a result of the fact that he knows how to take advantage of the mining system. If you met him, would you suggest that he has a moral responsibility to spend all his profits on ammo and fire into the air until it's all used up? I should introduce you sometime. I think you might get on.

I've never deposited and am probably worth 15k ped (after months and months of HARD work reselling). How much of that's yours Von? Or maybe you owe me some money?


Valiant

 

[Fade]

We are so biased.

I don't know a lot of the names around here, but my guess is that if you look at how people voted, you will see

that the NonDepers see themselves as a help to the economy.

Most mid-level players (who have no fantasies about mod faps or mercs) are not bothered by them...

Now, look at who does not like them... a lot of (what I think) are well known players... players on the edge of uberdom (I could be wrong, but it is my impression). These players may be in the market for a mod merc/fap, or started playing a long time ago, before the big inflation. They may have friends that have the cool gear that they don't have yet.... but they can't afford it now, because of the market prices. - At that point, we get frustrated enough to want to wax the NonDepers

just my impression... anyone esle think this? or otherwise?

 

[jonboy]

just my impression... anyone esle think this? or otherwise?

I agree! I still havent hear a legitamate reason to hate them! Saying they take money out of PE is just ridiculous. I'm sure some do but not as many as depositors. I'd be very very surprised if the total percentage taken out PE was split between depositors and non depositors showed that the "freeloaders" took out the majority of the money.

 

[F1r3]

I've never deposited and am probably worth 15k ped (after months and months of HARD work reselling). How much of that's yours Von? Or maybe you owe me some money?

thats too bad, u would have got that in 1 month working irl

u have nothing better to do?:f

 

[Tantrum]

Hate is a bit of a strong word...

I voted hated them... but I don't really hate them.

I just don't think they are doing the game ANY good at all.

For every PED (or PED value) that a non-depositer quits the game with, is a PED removed from the economy. That is my only dislike with non-depositers. As long as they continue to play, it's fine with me. But the moment they quit and have PEDS or items with TT value on their avitar, is when they do a disservice to the economy.

There is also the negative impact on MindArks books for supporting people that don't contribute to the continuing effort of Project Entropia. Like bandwidth and other support issues.

Personally, I think that if there were no sweating available to low mindforce players, then the general economy would be much greater than it is now. And isn't it the economy of PE's loot returns the thing most people are bitching about these days? The only thing non-depositers should be able to do is socialize. This would force most of those that want to play this game seriously to deposit. Sweating should only be able to be done by the experienced players in mindforce as an additional reward for skilling up.

I'm sure I'll get a lot more negative rep on these thoughts, but I don't care. I'm gonna post what I think instead.

 

[Von]

Hmmmm......but are non-depositers the only ones who remove money from the other players? I met a miner once who built up some skills over time (both game 'skills' and just ordinary experience of playing). He now knows the best places to mine and he regularly tells me that he's making a profit from mining. If I believe him, isn't he effectively removing money from other players by making this profit?..........albeit as a result of the fact that he knows how to take advantage of the mining system. If you met him, would you suggest that he has a moral responsibility to spend all his profits on ammo and fire into the air until it's all used up? I should introduce you sometime. I think you might get on.

I've never deposited and am probably worth 15k ped (after months and months of HARD work reselling). How much of that's yours Von? Or maybe you owe me some money?





Valiant

Since MA has allowed players to play this game without an entry fee, and made it possible due to sweathing and other activitys, to accumulate money within the game, I have to accept the fact that its so. I was fully aware that it was so, before I deposited any money. But thats not what this post was all about. The question was whether there should be negative feelings towards players that have never deposited. I hope that I made it clear in my post that I have no animosity towards any player that does so.

I only reminded players that nothing is free and that there are real costs involved for them to participate in this online universe. Is there a moral responsibillity to deposit?...no. But then again when MA started this virtual universe, and if all the starting players would have just participated in free activitys, this game wouldnt exist. Which means that all the depositing players support the ones that dont, thats a fact and cant be denied. But I do notice that the non-depositers seem a bit edgy and defensive about this subject, which leads me to believe that they are fully aware of that...lol. Mr. Valiant may have accumulated 15k without depositing, but one bad deal can changed that, as I know he's fully aware of that..lol

As for taking money from this game, that would only hold true if one cashes out. All money that is held by players is still in game, and realy doesnt effect the overall availability to share such money with each other.

Just to make it clear, Valiant is talking about a miner he knows, thats me<grin>. Since playing here for about 16 months, and having asked my wife how much I've put in here, 1,650 usd, that means I have contributed a 100 usd per month so far. And yes I do ok with mining, have I made more then I've spend?...no. Will I ever exeed my deposits, I dont know, I may, I may not. The sixteen months in here have educated me on what is economical to do, I have contributed to the game and accumulated bonus points(skill), and I'm now reaping what I have sowed.


Von

 

[Hieronyme]

Never deposited , never will , and i like everyone
can't estimate hiero ,but something like 100k $

i hate me

 

[Thug Life]

Never deposited , never will , and i like everyone
can't estimate hiero ,but something like 100k $

i hate me

lol, and i hate you now j/k well it's amazing, playing since beta ?

 

[Hieronyme]

nah march 2k3
before oilrig,tailoring,formidons... came

 

[Von]

Never say never....................lol


Von

 

[Mirand]

Plain and simple, some depositors seem to think the non depositors are stealing there money. how dumb can you get?
It's all in MA's hands. Nowhere does it say you have to deposit, so if depositors want to deposit because they are so easily bored and are used to getting everything they want fast and easy, dont take it out as hate for the non depositors.
The haters seem to think MA just gives their money to the non depositors,
again a serious misconception. Why was it again you deposited ?
If the depositors have to hate someone let it be themselfs for being dumb and losing all their money (to MA , not non-depositors. in the end we all lost.)
I wonder how they think about people that have to work in RL (sweating) to get money from people that buy the product (depositors) they make.

Double standards never worked.

Greetings

 

[e-lite]

Never deposited , never will , and i like everyone
can't estimate hiero ,but something like 100k $

i hate me

ehmn... right.. so what's on that avatar that makes it worth $100 USD ? I dont think so.

 

[Pe-nerd]

We all know how MA changed this game to on online casino, mostly only the new players find that out because they get comfronted with the high cost's of skilling up. Any uber who has been playing for some time doesnt know that because enviroment where they skilled up was far more friendly then nowadays. Now there skills and equip make sure they can play for free.

It is indeed MA who made that possible so no blaiming the uber's other then they dont realise completely how hard skilling up has become nowadays.

 

[The Nightbird]

Never deposited , never will , and i like everyone
can't estimate hiero ,but something like 100k $

i hate me

How many iMk2s have you looted from longus? Out of curiosity

 

[Kerham]

I don't "hate".

But I don't generally like non-depositers for a trivial reason: pure not gained, not deserved, not meritory, not nothing luck. Like you gain some peds from sweating and you go hunting. The depositer would spend them all, in time, without any major improvement, just skills, no nice item, no nothing. Absolute random lucky non-depositer will meet a molisk and its angel arms. That's one type of non-depositers I don't like. There is nothing to respect in luck.

The other type of non-depositers which I don't like: avatars A borrows from avatar B mod-fap, goes skilling dodge, sells dodge skills, and again, etc. Again, nothing to respect, imo being helped with uber items is exactly like depositing.

The only non-depositers I REALLY like and respect are the traders (not resellers). Trading is the actvity which really requires intelligence and dedication.

 

[Donald]

I don't think I really hate anyone, but I do have an intense dislike for scammers..... we need a poll about those guys!

Donald

 

[ZippO]

Don't be a hater! People that have not deposited have definately put a crapload of time and effort into the game ;P Most of those that say they have made insane amounts are telling lies, or they got lucky.

 

[Bird]

I have nothing but respect for the non-depositers.

Nicely said!

I think it's easier to deposit money as to sweat, be patient and watch your expenses.

So non-depositers don't choose the easy way, and they also add their part to the loot pool. And I am sure that MA is watching the balance regarding economy.

I deposited myself, I am not that patient.

 

[G12]

I think the issue of how non-depositors effect the economy is a lot more complicated that folks realize. To understand it, you have to know how non-dpesoitors spend their PED and how the game would work if you got rid of that option. If they go buy a gun and hunt, then the PED from sweat and fruit gets put right back into the loot pool so the net effect is small. If they all cash out then some money leaves the game. I suspect that very few do this and that the money invovled is trivial compared to the amount that Mind Ark needs to take out.

Non-depositors have a huge incentive to sweat until they hit the cap. If you remove that where would sweat come from? Would you buy it at the TT like ammo? This would probably not change the eocnomy at all, just change where you get your sweat and turn Camp Phoenix into another empty town. If sweat still came from players, the price would skyrocket as depositors would have other options than sweating and would need more reward to do it. As a result ME and all mindforce activites would drop.

And so on. If you don't know what the new rules would be, it is hard to determine the effect of removing the option of non-depositng.

 

[Hurrikane]

I started Entropia with the noble intention of building my avatar from scratch, using only money and skills earned in-game. This seemed the most realistic method of playing given the "plot"....wiring money from home seemed to be almost cheating. Soon friends joined, we formed the GloryHounds, and as they bought armour and guns etc I felt left behind, and deposited to catch up. 8 months and around 7k ped later, I have a pretty rounded avatar with some useful stats and a load of equipment and weapons that'll kill 75% of what I meet. My girlfriend just got herself a new, first avatar and has decided to try it the "noble" way too, but I know she sees all frivolous spending (like money spent on any game at all LOL) as inherently evil, and so will not cave in to peer presssure as I did. I'm looking forward to seeing how she (slowly) develops, and will always have a pang of regret about "paying ahead".

There will always be enough rich kids out there chucking $100 a day at the game to subsidise a bit of natural progression. They are the ones causing the problem. If everyone made modest deposits and played within their skills, Tango's wouldn't cost 25k

Also most players doing it without RL money are not affecting the game much at all, in 2 bits of looted gnome and 4 ped on the card... it takes years to build from scratch. To moan at a non-depositer getting a lucky HoF is moaning at a remarkable acheivement by a player with integrity and dedication most of the time. Paying is the easy route.

 

[Nicole]

I don’t see why people are upset with non depositors except for the fact of pure jealousy or maybe thinking that since they don’t pay to play the depositor has to pay for their play time ?

Right now non depositors don’t trouble me, and I hope they never do.


I do have respect for people like Igor, Zed and Pham to name just an few that don’t deposit!

 

[Zalthor]

I too am nearly a non-depositor. This is actually not my fault - or perhaps it is...

I don't happen to have a credit card of any sort so therefore getting deposits into EU means I must rely on my bank transferring cash. This works well but takes 10 days from inception to conclusion.

Besides, as a noobie - I'm not yet sure just how much I'm going to love or hate this on-line experience. Why then should I allow judgemental fat cats rule the way my cautious approach to money and internet transactions be governed?

In two words - I don't.

All power to the less wealthy among us

 

[Nea]

i have said this earlier, i wish all would depo, at least a lil bit.
see i controlled my nerves now haha

 

[Nebu]

i have said this earlier, i wish all would depo, at least a lil bit.
see i controlled my nerves now haha

I cant deposit money, so I will put some love, kindness and wisdom into this our Universe.

 

[Ginger16]

well i don't think it is bad if you can make it without putting money into the game then by all means carry on

 

[The Nightbird]

If everyone has to deposit to play, and no one can play for free or withdraw, then that means 100% of deposits goes to MA. Is that a pleasant thought?