Do you think loot is player based? well it is

YES, LOOT IS PLAYERBASED !

At least, I got some statistics that match with that theory in 100%; I'm following a couple of players since I came back in september because it was ever my guess that loot is playerbased - it's quite simple, there are players losing money at every hunting / mining / whatever trip and there are players making profit nearly every time.

Some friends helped me a lot with these statistics with supporting me their results of PED spent and Loot each time they went hunting, I'll continue these stats of course.

Just let me show you the biggest difference of these statistics I made until yet, Player A made (with highest single loot 1431 PED) ~9.500 PED profit out of spending totally ~ 3.800.000 ammo (mainly on Isis LR 41, LR 48 and Korss H 400; mainly hunting Atrax, Atrox, Armax, Aurli, Drones, Kreltin, Thorifoids), Player B (with a highest single loot of 628 PED) lost ~ 5.000 PED out of spending totally ~ 2.650.000 ammo (mainly on Isis LR32, Korss H 400; mainly hunting Ambulimax, Atrox, Drones, Ocolus, Sumima)
(markup of (L) weapons and decays in both cases included)

So as you can see on the few stats I have, the Range after around 2.500.000 - 5.000.000 ammo spent is around 14.500 PED in Loot (statistic goes over some months now, I don't think that MA can say that it's just bad luck if a player loses constantly money over such a long period and a other makes profit over such a long period - I didn't make graphs yet, but if you would see them, at player A the graph is constantly rising in profit (except of very few loss-hunts), at player B it's constantly falling (except of very few profit hunts)) !

So far from me supporting your theory mate; I'll publish complete results of all players I get until 1. February due the semester holidays; then there will also be exact percentages of mobs hunted, equipment used etc. but what I can tell you, both are quite economic, don't think that the "looser" in that case is beaten up by the "winner"

If you want me to help with the statistics (so, to get a "testing" person, just note for me your hunting trips (what mob, what gun(s), how many ammo spent, mow much decay, how much profit / loss and submit it to me))

MFG

It mainly proofs that Atrax, Atrox, Armax, Aurli, Drones, Kreltin, Thorifoids has a better ROI then Ambulimax, Atrox, Drones, Ocolus, Sumima in this situation. It doesnt proof a playerbased loot as you claim.

Ill say it again, when data supports a hypothesis, it doesnt mean the hypothesis must be true at all. It only mean the hypothesis might be true. You only may considder a hypothesis to be true when there is no other hypothesis that explains the experiment results. In this case there are plenty.
 
Well, mainly hunted in my statistic means > 5%

Both players have a Atrox rate of > 20% and a Drones rate of > 15%

The relation - I should have said to prevent this misunderstandment (well, whatever, I think you know what I mean) is close and the Aurli / Kreltin / Thorifoids vs. Ocolus / Sumima isn't the point, the point especially is between the drones and the atrox hunts which both players did most.

The complete results I'll give you due semesterholidays (casue then I have some days to work all of it out) will show you that it really has a strong tendence to be player-based.
 
It cant be player based. If it was, everyone with a shite looting ava would just keep creating new ones until they created a good loot ava. this would ripple through eu until everyone was running around with great looting avatars sucking the pot dry and making ma almost bankrupt within a very short period.

It cant be the avatar itself that decides loot, but rather what you do with the ava. skills in conjunction with tools/items & eco (i imagine) dictate what your average loot return is.

I havent got a clue as to why it seems the same people loot the big ones. Theres a reason, but i dont think it is down to your avatar having a 'good luck' code inserted into it at creation.
 
for example now I have theory that look goes from your gun economy, for example if you use korss 380+A103 which has nice eco you get less loot, and if you use delta+bect amp without skills you get more globals. That is only my opinion...

I believe that it's not the eco that matter, but the total decay: when I use korss400+a104 and/or Ghost armor while hunting argos I get more loot than when I use breer m2a+102 against the same maturities. Both setups are equally eco against middle argos (depending on skills ofc), but my decay is greater with the first one (in exchange for better protection and better fire speed) and loot is greater too.
 
well whats the point in using amps then if u cant even find anything? and yes i tried some ampless mining too but didnt see any difference in finding more deposits than with amp...

ask MA?;)

Whats the point for MA to let us use amps if it makes the find larger and we will hit as often as without?:)
 
Well, mainly hunted in my statistic means > 5%

Both players have a Atrox rate of > 20% and a Drones rate of > 15%

The relation - I should have said to prevent this misunderstandment (well, whatever, I think you know what I mean) is close and the Aurli / Kreltin / Thorifoids vs. Ocolus / Sumima isn't the point, the point especially is between the drones and the atrox hunts which both players did most.

The complete results I'll give you due semesterholidays (casue then I have some days to work all of it out) will show you that it really has a strong tendence to be player-based.

Ok good to see you rephrased to "it really has a strong tendence to be player-based" ;). I look forward to see this data. I hope the data also includes number of kills, as that would be a very relavant variable in this matter.
 
ask MA?;)

Whats the point for MA to let us use amps if it makes the find larger and we will hit as often as without?:)

do u find often with every bomb when u mine with no amp? i dont..
and what ive noticed the loss % is the same even when no amp.. and with like 104 amp... ofcourse in peds the 104amp run did more loss.. but its still the same % if u calc it..
 
yah life suck doisnt it?
couple hard words on my latest support case from my loot being peace of shit and so fuking dynamic i got my account locked :eek:

haha i havent had success in that yet :F
 
do u find often with every bomb when u mine with no amp? i dont..
and what ive noticed the loss % is the same even when no amp.. and with like 104 amp... ofcourse in peds the 104amp run did more loss.. but its still the same % if u calc it..

Maybe :p havnt calc it.

You hit often, if you mine the right places.... :eek:
 
Ok good to see you rephrased to "it really has a strong tendence to be player-based" ;). I look forward to see this data. I hope the data also includes number of kills, as that would be a very relavant variable in this matter.

Well, the data doesn't include the exact number of mobs killed, that would make everyone involved in making the statistics insame with counting, but in includes the percentage of ammo spent on specific mobs.

To give an Example (numers not relevant):
Atrox: 21%
--> Young - Old 56%
--> Provider - Dominant 31%
--> Alpha - Old Alpha 10%
--> Prowler - Stalker 3%

The percentages are rounded and it's about +/- 1% due mob and +/- 2,5% doe maturity; well it's the Ammo spent, so out of the ammo you can calculate out a number of possible kills

Atrax: 8%
[...]

[...]

The Armor is calculated due use against mob, the black number in these stats is if somebody is on a trox hunt (for example at ithaca) and kills a single drone out of 25.000 ammo cause it just crossed his way, the drone isn't in the statistics, but well, it also isn't relevant, it would only be reported / showed specific if the drone would have given a big loot (global ++).

All in all, these stats are pretty exactly and shouldn't have a miss over 2,5% totally (means for example: Complete results - Atrox - Maturity - Armor - total decay - loot)
In the end it's the same result, but if it's now 56% or 58% Young - Old and 31% or 29% Provider - Dominant cause they were mixed up more than usual with other maturities is a black number, but as I said, finally this isn't relevant cause the results of ammo spent vs. PED isn't affected by that.
 
:wise:

Whining about loot works :wise: So often I global right after one of my lootwhining rants :laugh:
Hmm, that hasn't worked for me... :)

Anyway, 5 years of hunting has given me plenty of evidence that there is *definitely* an avatar-based component to the "good loot" programming. As alluded to in some of the preceding posts, it's not just because someone is an uber hunter with uber gear, either. For whatever unknown reason, some avatars go through a VU or two with statistically impossible luck.

This VU, I've had the best luck in my entire 5 years of hunting, if you consider a crappy global per night "luck". By "crappy", I mean looting items that are unrepairable and have 10% or less condition, or just 1K of crap like exploding projectiles/bot parts/etc. I've had a very big loss each hunt, I think I'm probably down about 2000 to 3000 PED since a few weeks before Christmas.

Loot "luck" also doesn't have anything to do with being an economical hunter. In fact, the opposite seems to be true. I tend not to "tank" mobs, my preferred style of hunting is to tag it with Marber Bravo, switch to MK4 when within the inner green circle, and switch to amped M2875 if necessary...and I finish it off with MK2 or Outbacko, depending on how much health it has remaining. I'm about as efficient as possible, and try to avoid having my armor get dented, if possible (though I've been known to go on tanking rampages from time to time). I don't prefer the "stand toe-to-toe with mob and fire from point blank range" style of hunting, it seems you miss a lot of shots for no reason, which is odd considering it's point blank range...anyway, it seems the more economical I hunt, the worse my luck is. Funny, that...

I'm pretty sure that each avatar has a potential to trigger a global or a HOF, something in the avatar's programming increases or decreases that potential. At the moment an avatar clicks to loot a mob, that percentage chance happens. Mobs similarly have a potential to drop a big loot. As more and more of a mob gets hunted, the potential to drop a big loot increases, until it's almost ready to be "triggered" by some lucky bastard. Well, when a mob variety is close to dropping a good loot, those avatars with a better chance of TRIGGERING that loot, usually get the loot. It doesn't matter if I've shot almost 1300 atraxes, without so much as a 50-PED global; someone can wander through the area I'd been hunting for days, shooting 20 or so, and trigger the HOF I deserved. It's happened countless times to me over the past 5 years.

My theory also seems to explain how certain avatars can trigger globals and HOFs from a string of different mobs. You see the same guy getting globals from atrox every half hour, then he shoots a faucervix and gets another global, and so on. It also explains the more recent oddity of that avatar that looted a small global just before being disconnected, only to return and finding he didn't have the loot, he shot another mob, and got the exact same global he lost before he was disconnected. Hmm....interesting food for thought, no?
 
Loot is player based in the sense that some players can figure out better playing strategies than others. There are non-depositors who make good money in EU (hunting and mining, not trading). Usually they are silent at the forums. There are also heavy depositors who lose a lot. We hear them a lot at the forums.

Heh well i still have a feeling that if you're a non depositor you have more luck then a depositor. The non depositors i know have bigger hofs then the depositers i know. It's like a switch as soon as you deposite you get a mark "paying customer". :rolleyes:
 
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If luck in a certain profession or on a certain mob is not avatar related, how can it be that I get several ubers unamped in mining down on the planet while my biggest loot hunting is more than 2 years ago with a 951 ped Molisk while I hunt 75% of my Time?


Uber - HoF
Mining : 7124 Oil; 1515 Alicenies; 12xx Blaus;
Nearly Uber
Hunting: 951 Molisk
Mining : 730 Ped Growth; 7xx Ped Zinc; 584 Ped Blaus
513 Ped Magerian; 433 Ped Alicenies
last updated: Dez 07

BTW: Nearly Level 50 in Dmg and Hit on my main Weapon used more than Level 20 in all Mining related Professions.

PS: Next biggest loot was a 5xx ped Ambulimax in a Teamhunt
 
Heh well i still have a feeling that if you're a non depositor you have more luck then a depositor. The non depositors i know have bigger hofs then the depositers i know. It's like a switch as soon as you deposite you get a mark "paying costumer". :rolleyes:

LOL that would make sense :) Seriously, actually I think that non depositors just have to think more and know the game better. Another thing - the advice from MA support to try different professions - may sound like a standard reply, but it is very wise in fact.
 
If luck in a certain profession or on a certain mob is not avatar related, how can it be that I get several ubers unamped in mining down on the planet while my biggest loot hunting is more than 2 years ago with a 951 ped Molisk while I hunt 75% of my Time?


For example by chance, mobchoice, difference between loot and mining system, among a couple other possibilities.
 
If luck in a certain profession or on a certain mob is not avatar related, how can it be that I get several ubers unamped in mining down on the planet while my biggest loot hunting is more than 2 years ago with a 951 ped Molisk while I hunt 75% of my Time?

BTW: Nearly Level 50 in Dmg and Hit on my main Weapon used more than Level 20 in all Mining related Professions.

PS: Next biggest loot was a 5xx ped Ambulimax in a Teamhunt
Cry me a river, Raffaele! I hunt 95% of the time, I think my level is "Amazing" or something, I have 125 health points and none of it from fapping in a cloud of bees or in the boxing rings, all from pure hunting...(this isn't to brag, only to indicate how much I've hunted...when I hunt, I go on slaughterfests). I often leave the game for extended periods due to severe frustration at never getting what I deserve for all the PEDs I pay in ammo and repairs. My best loot since C.O.T.? 787 PEDs. Never had an uber, not a single one. Other players who began a few weeks before I did, and taught me how to hunt snables, have had several ubers. Maybe a dozen each, and a few ATH's. One looted 3 Adj. Heroes in one loot, a bunch of Eon parts, etc. The other looted Imp MK2. My point is that, no matter how hard I hunt, it's practically impossible for me to HOF. It takes me 10 times as long to get a HOF as a fellow player with similar skill level. That trend has been consistent for my avatar for as long as I've played.

It took me 3 times longer to get my first global than them (not based on time, but based on skill levels reached, which is a truer representation of "How Much" we hunted, comparably). By the time I had my first global, they had 3 or 4. By the time I had my second, they had a half dozen or more.

This isn't just the clueless observations of a noob hunter, I've hunted for years and the underlying sense I got was that I had to work 3 to 10 times as hard as "the next guy"--with similar level of skills--to get the same rewards. I've discussed this with many an old-timer veteran and every single one I met thinks my luck is practically impossible--in a bad way. The number of hunters who've reached my level of skill, and *never* had an uber loot, is very very few. I'm one of them, go me! :yay: Haha!

(Aside to those who hate my constant complaining: Walk in MY Mannell shoes for 5 years and we'll see who's complaining now, won't we?) ;)
 
yeah but i was talking about these ubers some ppl get all the time..
i see it very weird that i hunted 5 month pretty hardcore got from lvl0 to lvl39 HA and my highest single loot was 292ped and now this bait dude has got 5 ubers 10 hofs, and what jagge foots?... in 2 weeks... is it coz he uses better strategic to minimize his losses?

This "Bait dude" is at 19 place at the mayhem event, I'm pretty sure he's got a good fap and good weapon and is able to hunt like a terminator and not count his losses.
 
Bet some1 from MA's reading it as well and laughing his ass off hitting the keyboard with those magical "playerX=ATH" "playerY=/=ATH" buttons with his fists. oh, wait it could be me.......not.
 
Cry me a river, Raffaele! I hunt 95% of the time, I think my level is "Amazing" or something, I have 125 health points and none of it from fapping in a cloud of bees or in the boxing rings, all from pure hunting...(this isn't to brag, only to indicate how much I've hunted...when I hunt, I go on slaughterfests). I often leave the game for extended periods due to severe frustration at never getting what I deserve for all the PEDs I pay in ammo and repairs. My best loot since C.O.T.? 787 PEDs. Never had an uber, not a single one. Other players who began a few weeks before I did, and taught me how to hunt snables, have had several ubers. Maybe a dozen each, and a few ATH's. One looted 3 Adj. Heroes in one loot, a bunch of Eon parts, etc. The other looted Imp MK2. My point is that, no matter how hard I hunt, it's practically impossible for me to HOF. It takes me 10 times as long to get a HOF as a fellow player with similar skill level. That trend has been consistent for my avatar for as long as I've played.

It took me 3 times longer to get my first global than them (not based on time, but based on skill levels reached, which is a truer representation of "How Much" we hunted, comparably). By the time I had my first global, they had 3 or 4. By the time I had my second, they had a half dozen or more.

This isn't just the clueless observations of a noob hunter, I've hunted for years and the underlying sense I got was that I had to work 3 to 10 times as hard as "the next guy"--with similar level of skills--to get the same rewards. I've discussed this with many an old-timer veteran and every single one I met thinks my luck is practically impossible--in a bad way. The number of hunters who've reached my level of skill, and *never* had an uber loot, is very very few. I'm one of them, go me! :yay: Haha!

(Aside to those who hate my constant complaining: Walk in MY Mannell shoes for 5 years and we'll see who's complaining now, won't we?) ;)

Well im level 53 laser pistoleer and have the same so join the club mayeb we can make ranks out of it.

Atm im colonel and yr captain who will join us???
 
If you ask me it is player based! I never seen a complete noob get an uber hof. If you check the ATH's you see only mid/highlevel to ubers, no noobs. How do you become a mid/highlevel or uber, by depositing or trading a lot.

You have to burn (Peds) to earn (Peds). If you are able to burn alot of peds(due to depositing or good trading) the chance of getting higher loots is bigger. BUT you also burn more, so the end result is the same (we all loose). Except maybe the player who started with EU 8 years ago and have items that are worth many K's today.

Random loot wouldn't be logical.....as it will only push depositers away from EU, and this will be the end of the game.
 
(Aside to those who hate my constant complaining: Walk in MY Mannell shoes for 5 years and we'll see who's complaining now, won't we?) ;)

It would be a nice experiment if you switch with someone with a succesfull avatar for a while, and see if the avatar realy matters for success.

My prediction is that its the playstyle that causes all these differences I read in this topic. Where do you hunt, when do you switch location, what items do you use, etc etc. I have tried a lot of tactics. I experienced all the combinations I read so far. Big losses, big profit, break even, lotsa globals, little globals, etc etc. Needless to say I used the profitable playstyles a lot more, hence I didnt need to deposit for the past 2 years or something.
 
Well im level 53 laser pistoleer and have the same so join the club mayeb we can make ranks out of it.

Atm im colonel and yr captain who will join us???

Maybe you get better luck in mining like me..

Applying for rank :)
 
well true randomness means that if you keep shuffling a deck of cards, not only will you eventually gonna end up with all the cards correctly sorted numbers and colours but shuffling enought times you will also have it happen 10 times in a row
 
An interesting discussion. One point which occurred to me:

It was said above, that random loot is most likely, primarily because it's the simplest to implement.

It's a close run thing whether this is actually easier than tracking amount spent by player (ie removed from inventory or decayed off items - all of which are tracked from shot to shot, so you can see them - try hunting with inv open - your ammo goes down). If you track amount spent by each player, it's trivial to generate a cumulative sum of loot awarded less amount spent, and hence award loot based on whether the player is in credit or debit.

But leaving that aside, I think the biggest argument against random loot is monkeys with typewriters. ;)

Essentially, if loot is totally random, there is a chance that one month, because it's random, loots may total more than the entire amount of loot paid in total so far in EU. It's not very likely, but it could happen, if loots were random - that is what totally random means - there is a chance of any outcome. But MA would then be panicking. This is a real risk, and for a business, not a chance to take.

So if there is a random element, it is surely just that - an element. Other factors to limit the high and low loots must also exist. Limit high lots so that MA does not go bust. Limit low loots, so players do not leave.

Marketing psychology is one of the most sophisticated areas of business, and it does not take long (eg staff of 10 and 2 weeks) to come up with a clever algorithm which keeps people entertained and hooked just enough with rewards, so you maximise your profits. It's certainly a lot quicker to do that than create all the 3d graphics and eye-candy we see in EU.

MA are a business, and let's face it we want them to stay around, or EU would disappear. I am quite sure that while they may not get everything right, one thing they get totally right these days is watching their profit, and I'm glad of it.

So my guess is that the loot algorithm is very clever, perhaps one of the most complex parts of EU, and designed very carefully to keep players as happy as possible while not giving away the crown jewels.

This is an intelligent guess - it's what I would do, but I have no idea if it does work like this.

Personally, I am quite happy with the loot payout I get. If I wasn't I would change my playing tactic. If that didn't help, I would stop playing. I mean we play EU for fun right (apart from those who have invested to make a business out of it). If it's not fun, do it differently or stop doing it? Seems like a no-brainer surely? :scratch2:

Edit: and spot on Hally, you've said in 2 lines what it took me 2 pages :S
 
well true randomness means that if you keep shuffling a deck of cards, not only will you eventually gonna end up with all the cards correctly sorted numbers and colours but shuffling enought times you will also have it happen 10 times in a row

I dont believe you, please prove it :laugh:


(j/k)
 
Maybe :p havnt calc it.

You hit often, if you mine the right places.... :eek:

yeah maybe u hit often if u mine right places... but its too damn hard to find those right places...


And someone who said complainting about loot in chat works... well it works... for me atleast... when i truly open up in chat it always ends up me globaling or seomthing... its even my trademark or thats what soc mates say :F... but it never works if u just gonna use it to get profit.. it needs to be real emotional moment when it works
 
well,im level 59 laserdam and 56 ha and agility 83..and ive never had an real uber,hunted for 4 years str8,never chipped in,only out
if i had not chipped out completely 3 times i would have had around 7-8 ha i think..but still..highstes hof was 3k ish

but then again,i dont deposit,only withdraw and make good overall profit..i just never uber
 
The loot has nothing with luck to do its only 2 things...
1. You deposit huge and spent a lot and then you get a ATH who is 20% off that you spent.

2. you have been here sense 2003 when MA started and got all the good items easy in the loot or got it cheap.:wise:
 
Yes. seen enough 'proof' of that imo.
 
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