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Question: Do you think the mining loot system...

Encicra

Encicra

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Dustin "Encicra" Parker
In effort to be dynamic and also under the belief that the loot system does in fact try to pay you back to some degree --

Do you think the mining loot system bases the values of your finds partially on the auctions current mark up or the ores in the areas you are mining?
 
I'm not sure, but the thought has hit me many times in the past that it seemed like the system is trying to make me break even (not profit) or loose just a few PED using markup.
 
I think there are few things that influence your return rate. And I believe in some point that EU is paying back what you spend.... but this is long topic. Anyway, what I believe is important for return rate of mining:

*market need for certain resource (if there was big ATH on let's say narcanisium and it first parts of it got to market the drop rate is smaller)
* holding of resources (if there is such ATH and miner keeps it before selling - for example tower is on CND and miner waits to get all before going down to sell there is no influence, the influence appears when resource gets to the market)
* if you are in the area where you can find copper and ignisium and there was a big hof on copper you are more likely to get ignisium (unless you have low skills and bad seekers), if there was a hof on ignisium you will mainly get copper in this place
* there are areas where some resource can be mined but is rare, if there is a lack of such resource on market it will be mined there, if this resource is in the market in enough quantity it is less likely to find it in place it is rare as it will pop out in major spots for it
 
I had (still have) a similar thought:

° It would be logical that a certain ore would drop more (in frequency and or in size) when the market has a lot of orders for that specific kind of ore...

would balance things out.
 
Encicra said:
Do you think the mining loot system bases the values of your finds partially on the auctions current mark up or the ores in the areas you are mining?
Click to expand...

No, I belive MA has this balenced so most crafters can craft things 110%-120%
 
i think yes, the current price is considered when mining, and also i woudnt wonder if drop rate was balanced according to current % in auction-so that
MA chosen price is kept +- 2-4%
 
Nope.

This is the second thread on this in a month why not post there? :p

I found dunkel twice in 48 hours. I also found a crap load of typo gas - far above alice and melchi that is in the same area, easily accessible etc...
 
The main post doesnt refer to the amount of deposits of certain ore types but rather the value of an ore deposit against the auction markup, when the system trys to return your peds.
 
Since I unlocked CGA (over a year ago) and the introduction of mining amps around the same time, mining for me has been so bad that I have all but given up.
All but?
Mining equipment is in storage, so I guess I have actually given up mining.
Might get them out again some time, but it won't be any time soon.
I have even been toying with the idea of selling my mining skills & equipment, and using the peds raised to buy skills in other areas.
Then I might get TT finders, and give it another go.

Mining used to be OK for me, returns as mentioned, then it went into a pants stage, and never came out of it.
 
The moment I hit CGA I chipped it up 1k and 5 lvls prospecting later I come close to profit every run.
 
I don't use amps and have 3-4 spots I constantly mine to try to get the same finds as I did before.

When I kept a log for 100 mining runs, my avg tt return was around 80-90%. This is including returns of only 40-50% up to globals/HoFs of 450 peds (only 3 large finds over 250 out of 100 runs).

It's seems to me that the calculated 10-20% goes to MA for their profit. Miners would get their profits from other players buying ores/enmatter with the markups.
 
Ivanna Ana said:
I don't use amps and have 3-4 spots I constantly mine to try to get the same finds as I did before.

When I kept a log for 100 mining runs, my avg tt return was around 80-90%. This is including returns of only 40-50% up to globals/HoFs of 450 peds (only 3 large finds over 250 out of 100 runs).

It's seems to me that the calculated 10-20% goes to MA for their profit. Miners would get their profits from other players buying ores/enmatter with the markups.
Click to expand...

I think I agree with this. I don't use amps either and get the same results, I usually mine ore with 30% markup or so and often at end of the run I have 70% tt of the bombs I started with.

To me it seems that amps are a form of gambling. Though the return is higher then ampless but I still think there is more on the line.
 
Encicra said:
In effort to be dynamic and also under the belief that the loot system does in fact try to pay you back to some degree --

Do you think the mining loot system bases the values of your finds partially on the auctions current mark up or the ores in the areas you are mining?
Click to expand...


The mining loot system bases the values of your finds on your skills, equiptment, location (ie. CND), and the amount of money in the pool.
 
yeah, ores/enmatter comes and go in cycle for sure
 
Mr Trayles said:
The mining loot system bases the values of your finds on your skills, equiptment, location (ie. CND), and the amount of money in the pool.
Click to expand...

As far as I see it -

Equipment: is merely a service that we pay for, it only lets us have wider and deeper search results.

Location: Is merely used for role play. In the case of CND the run speed and search distance is all divided by two, in role play of different gravity though the ore claims are also divided in half but the claims sizes are x2 what they would normally be on the planet.

Skills: Allow you to use equipment more efficiently costing you less to use them or in the case of prospecting - you get to find new ores (not higher valued claims) and with mining you can extract ores quicker (you can notice this by looking at lyst when extracting).

Extraction however I theorize that being a sub branch of mining actually could diminish the chance of you finding a Tiny (II) with a high enough lvl but that's only theory.
 
Encicra said:
As far as I see it -

Equipment: is merely a service that we pay for, it only lets us have wider and deeper search results.

Location: Is merely used for role play. In the case of CND the run speed and search distance is all divided by two, in role play of different gravity though the ore claims are also divided in half but the claims sizes are x2 what they would normally be on the planet.

Skills: Allow you to use equipment more efficiently costing you less to use them or in the case of prospecting - you get to find new ores (not higher valued claims) and with mining you can extract ores quicker (you can notice this by looking at lyst when extracting).

Extraction however I theorize that being a sub branch of mining actually could diminish the chance of you finding a Tiny (II) with a high enough lvl but that's only theory.
Click to expand...

... Nah ... Found several II lately ..even with TK120 :D
 
BruteForce said:
... Nah ... Found several II lately ..even with TK120 :D
Click to expand...

Thats equipment though, I mean the Extraction Skill itself. In the "mining" description it talks about taking as much out of the ground with as little waste of the ore as possible, so if thats a hint I think it refers more to extraction skill which might actually effect claim size (On an incredibly small scale) while mining increases the size of chunks we take out with the extractor.
 
As a more general response I believe that new resources are only spawned once the old ones that were extracted have benn consumed/used in the manufacturing process.

The amount as to which would be circulating in the game to begin with would obviously be up to MA, most likely based on a set of variables based around the trends as to their usage beforehand. So if a lot of people were crafting OA-101's for example there would be an influx of Gazzurdite and Caldorite within the areas that they were marked to spawn in. Likewise the reversed effects would take place if not many people were crafting them.

Putting a few thoughts onto paper as to say,
~Tracer
 
I dont believe ore markup influences what you get at all.

Nor do i think tool markup affects what you get at all. If i buy a finder for 1000% markup or 100% markup im getting the same ore.

Rarity might influence TT value of claim, Seems like some of the rare ores like to drop in smaller quantities. However this might also be due solely to rounding since the rare ores are usually large value/stone. This does not hold true for things like gold for instance, its a rare with the middepth finders, but the tt values you find with deep finders are normal tt ranges. I simply have not found enough on the other rares to make a decision either way. Kanerium tho which is 2.5 ped/stone seems to have a smaller average claim size for sure, i think its just rounding tho, large amps might push it up to normal sizes(its lower with 103s tho).

What you get MAY be influenced by the number of resources on hand. IE there can only be 1000 pieces of dunkel and no more will drop until they are used. I do not think this is true at all of common ores, but it may or may not be true of the rares, no real way to know.

Is total supply capped? Or does ore rarity just fluctuate over time? Or is it just your luck causing you to see a fluctuation? Its hard to say what it is, maybe its all 3 and more.

-------------

Ore prices are mostly supply/demand economics tho.

Prices drive willingness to sell and willingness to mine. High prices will make people sell off stockpiles, and make people mine the resource more, causing supply to increase and prices to fall. Low prices will cause people to stockpile a resource, or not mine a resource, causing supply to fall and prices rise.

New sources of demand can cause the prices for one type of ore to rise, and another fall(if the demand replaces a previous demand, like a new gun bp that is a far superior gun to an old one that takes a different resource)

Etc Etc.
 
Encicra said:
As far as I see it -

Equipment: is merely a service that we pay for, it only lets us have wider and deeper search results.

Location: Is merely used for role play. In the case of CND the run speed and search distance is all divided by two, in role play of different gravity though the ore claims are also divided in half but the claims sizes are x2 what they would normally be on the planet.

Skills: Allow you to use equipment more efficiently costing you less to use them or in the case of prospecting - you get to find new ores (not higher valued claims) and with mining you can extract ores quicker (you can notice this by looking at lyst when extracting).

Extraction however I theorize that being a sub branch of mining actually could diminish the chance of you finding a Tiny (II) with a high enough lvl but that's only theory.
Click to expand...

Equipment: Ore amps increase the size of the find.

Location: CND gives larger loot sizes, although, less of them.

Skill: Indeed a theory, but I tend to believe that it helps.
 
Encicra said:
Extraction however I theorize that being a sub branch of mining actually could diminish the chance of you finding a Tiny (II) with a high enough lvl but that's only theory.
Click to expand...

And probably your theory is correct.

And I think that market demand decides what resources will be found in bigger total amount (more and bigger claims). It's most likely not the only factor, but probably quite important one.
 
Encicra said:
In effort to be dynamic and also under the belief that the loot system does in fact try to pay you back to some degree --

Do you think the mining loot system bases the values of your finds partially on the auctions current mark up or the ores in the areas you are mining?
Click to expand...

Ok...I wasn't going to post this because I am probably completely way off on this theory but this is what I think is sort of happening.

We will use Belkar is this example because I like to say Belkar.

Miners find the Belkar and the Belkar is consumed by crafters. There is a normal daily balance of what is found and what is consumed. When this balance gets out of whack, (more consumed than found) there must be more released back into pool and in larger quantities(Globals/HOFS) to bring balance back to the amount available to be consumed.

What I am not sure of is how the system determines who and where this larger deposit is going to be found. I partially believe it is avatar based because at the end of my last 2 trips to CND I got HOFs that made up what I had lost to that point. Payback or did I just happend to be in the right dome mining the right materials that were released into pool at that time. Perhaps both.

I notice Belkar prices are starting to rise and there is only a couple of pages available in auction so I go to dome 11 and start mining for Belkar. First thing that needs to happen is the spawn of the daily allowance of ores/enmats in that dome otherwise it is NRF city. I start dropping bombs. I find a claim. This is where I think there is a very quick calculation that takes place during the "searching" phase of our finders. I notice on CND more than planet side that there is a slight lag before I find a claim. Like it needed an extra milisecond to calculate how much I was going to get and get that calculation transfered to the finder so it will display correctly. Sometimes I also notice this same lag on NRFs like there was supposed to be a claim found at that spot and time but I did not meet all the criteria to get it.

So I find a claim, what it think it is calculating is whether or not there is a larger than normal size claim available and if my avatar has the skills, finder, amp, and donated enough to the lootpool to trigger this larger than normal claim. Amps will obviously skew the amounts to an extent but I think the larger amounts are released into the pool and lined up in a queue waiting to be triggered from a claim that is already there waiting to be found. An amped find will trickle down the line of queued larger Belkar finds and either decreased or erase them as to not release too much back into the system.

Like I said, this theory may be way off but when I notice no Belk globals/HOFs for hours then all of a sudden there are 3 or 4 within minutes it leads me to believe they were all released at the same time and were not just sitting in the ground waiting to be found.
 
No.

Too short...
 
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