Does m.a fiddle the market ? As well as the loots ?

[Ice Viper]

angel

+rep, very nicely said

 

[KuhlKatz]

Sorry to disagree with u Kin Tama, but EU has an economy that works EXACTLY the same as the economy in your home country..

All prices are determined around a supply chain and the demand for those supplies. Prices usually stabilize around the portion of the demand that can be met, item for item. Simple...

Lets say u are hooked on a specific beer. The Brewer supplies all he can and you get it for an acceptable price. Suddenly the Brewery burns to the ground, halting fresh supply for a while. As supplies starts dwindling, prices will go up. Trust me, for that last couple of drops of your favourite beer, you'll be willing to sell your soul. You see, prices go up as there is a strong demand for the limited resources that remain.

While the beer is still available, would resellers buy from the supplier that gives them the best price, or would they look for the supplier that will rip them off, simply because they can sell it on for a higher price still ?
Nope, you can bet your ass they'll get it as cheap as possible and resell as high as possible so they can make the best margin. Same rules apply in EU...

Prices are always determined by supply and demand and that will never change.

Let's look at EU.. Simple crafting BP - Basic Filters. This was tt fodder, as any ass could buy it at a Technician. Low price, because it's commonly available.
Suddenly the tt does not carry it any more - prices suddenly skyrocket for this item, as every startup crafter wants one.

Same with the Axxx series Amps. I bought mine before they stopped dropping, at a small markup. Look at the prices of these babies now... Astronomic markup.

Do u see some sort of pattern here ?

MA might stop dropping some items, or make them available by another means, but they do not determine the prices for current and future sales. They do not directly benefit from the resell, unless it is sold in auction.


What u are talking about introducing is nothing short of an Economic Depression.

 

[Brass]

-rep for directly insulting people who took the time to discuss your thoughts.

 

[Kin Tama]

ok not bothered to reply to each statement directly but just as an example look at 3rd world countries compared to countries like the uk.
The uk has more money flowing through the market so basic commodities like electricity and water are dirt cheap to afford and people can afford things like a new plasma tv car and mobile ever few months, more money flow through the system, whereas a country like ethiopia has only money to afford basic needs like electricity and water.
We are playing a game where essential needs such as bullets is all we can afford when breaking even on hunts and thus are ethiopians.

in reply to the 300% jackup on iron and on the item the real cost of the game at the end is repairs and bullets thus in ratio the game is cheaper to play i dont know anyone who would deposit straight away and start off with a breer m4a crafted whereas the opalo and bullets they would buy would be offset by the higher value of the loots that are being sold.
Anyhow it seems no one has actually understood there is 2 markets one run by us and the tt by entropia we need to offset what we pump into tt as seeming so much by injecting more into our flow of cash system and thus increasing the value oh and about crafters getting more damage when they fail its offset by the price they get for their items.
once again guys think one step further. the percentages of fail remain the same, all the values of the market move up exponentially whilst the tt market which is necessities stays the same.
if you guys cant understand the point im trying to make it goes to show why so many ppl spend 1000 of euros per month in the game and no one has made a profit equal to something you can live off and why the whole credit card thing mindark issues was akin to a large scale scam that ppl couldnt withdraw from as well as the bank wire takes 3 months almost .
oh and angel d you just proved my point i am talking you just repeated my model but failed to understand that the repair costs are RELATIVELY lower and the bullet costs and bomb costs are RELATIVELY lower.

kuhklatz what your saying makes sense in the real world to a point, beyond this its not only supply and demand its also desirability factor like paying 1000 peds for a pair of pants in eu that dont have an impact on the game, again you are talking about some specific items not the market TREND which could go upwards in general obviously something like angel armour is a different matter but the average things traded are not directly influenced by things like drop rate.

As for your beer model think of it as buying a shirt in uk for 10 pounds and buying a shirt in ethopia for 3 walnuts and 2 crocodile teeth the equivalent of 3 pence, obviously if you told an ethiopian that what we are trying to do is inflate prices but wages at th esame time and soon you will be paying 10 pounds for a shirt they would pretty much think its impossible just like everyone here does.

My closing statement and not bothering to post again oh no all the neg rep i got will haunt me is this.
every single time you play entropia imagine that you are buying and selling trading and doing whatever with a single extra nought on the end of the price, with the exception of all tt things such as bullets tt guns tt repairs.
As you will see nothing changes in the game but basic tt things are cheaper and make hunting mining etc a lot easier more fun and not running out of cash and struggling.
Thanks for listening dont bother replying i wont log on to read BUT its a shame you jumped on me and let your egos get in the way otherwise you would understand what im on about plus you would have a game with a strengthened economy to make playing worthwhile

 

[Lighterthief]

every single time you play entropia imagine that you are buying and selling trading and doing whatever with a single extra nought on the end of the price, with the exception of all tt things such as bullets tt guns tt repairs.
As you will see nothing changes in the game but basic tt things are cheaper and make hunting mining etc a lot easier more fun and not running out of cash and struggling.

imagine every time u need to buy somethiong it has a extra 0 on it
or every time someone needs to depo theres a extra nought on the end......
i dont see how ppl having to increse thier deposits by a factor of 10 can make it easier to have fun cheaper

how does a miner break even when all his tools go up in price, but his finds stay the same?
how does a hunter break even when the price of weapons gets hiked up and thus his eco goes down the drain?

sure as a reseller it doent change a thing, except numericaly, but as a "player" it does

just as a idea what ur model proposes

jaguar armor 100k
boar armor 80k
imk2 1.2 million peds
mm - 1.2 million peds
10 ped esi 1k peds

ok so lets not look at item prices, lets look at decay

a hunt where i spent 100 peds repair would now cost me 1000 peds repair oO

u really think that will attract new players and help the game to expand?
i personally think this is economic suicide

 

[Witte]

The simple problem with the idea, is that a hunter doesnt need anyting from a crafter. When the crafter asks too much for weapons, a hunter will simply turn to his trusty old UL gear. In the meanwhile he would still be able to sell all looted stuff to a crafter, who in his turn cant sell anything, as no hunter is buying his overpriced stuff. Result is that the crafter isnt going to pay much for the stuff a hunter loots, exactly the situation we are in now.

It is very simple logic.

 

[Angel D]

The uk has more money flowing through the market so basic commodities like electricity and water are dirt cheap to afford and people can afford things like a new plasma tv car and mobile ever few months, more money flow through the system, whereas a country like ethiopia has only money to afford basic needs like electricity and water.
We are playing a game where essential needs such as bullets is all we can afford when breaking even on hunts and thus are ethiopians.


if you guys cant understand the point im trying to make it goes to show why so many ppl spend 1000 of euros per month in the game and no one has made a profit equal to something you can live off and why the whole credit card thing mindark issues was akin to a large scale scam that ppl couldnt withdraw from as well as the bank wire takes 3 months almost .
oh and angel d you just proved my point i am talking you just repeated my model but failed to understand that the repair costs are RELATIVELY lower and the bullet costs and bomb costs are RELATIVELY lower.

I think you are missing an important factor - L equipment. Sure the relative cost of all tt items will be lower, but all other items will have higher prices. It will cost more for someone starting in the game, it will cost more to upgrade equipment. L items will cost more, and there is no relative repair savings. If L items cost more, people will stop using them, crafters will stop making them, and hunters and miners will not have anyone to sell their items to at a high markup.

I think you don't understand the supply demand system. Using your exampe: If you gave everyone in ethiopia $5000, all this would do is cause all prices to rise. If they have some commodities that are government controlled prices, possible water, electricity etc, then these items would be relatively cheaper. But, prices on all other items would raise equivalent to the amount of money in the system.

Rich and poor are relative, if I have $1,000,000, but the average income in a country is $5,000,000, then I am poor.

All your idea would do is make the TT items the most efficient in the game, if this were to happen then no one would use anything else. No one would buy anything from crafters and prices would drop.

You seem to be trying to find a way where everyone can profit - there is no such thing. There is X amount of money in the game and it comes from the depositers, for someone to profit, someone else must lose. There is no other way. Increasing prices will not change this, nothing can change this. Your idea doesn't change this.

 

[steffel]

@op:

trade ep21's they seem to keep rising and rising

 

[Bird]

I don't know wether this thread is serious or a joke.

What you suggest is like a government saying they will print lots of money and give it out to the population, making everyone rich. All that will happen is that the prices will go up, lowering the value of the money and no real changes will take place. Or in other words you cant make real changes using monetary means.

Now in EU there is no money printing, but player deposits instead. So basically you are asking people to deposit much more. Like Sirhc pointed out quite accurately all that will happen is that the game will be even more expensive to play.

Does MA pay markup on your items? No. Only other avatars do, and no matter how you twist it the money will be coming from other players. Maybe a few will benefit from it but it will not make playing cheaper or improve the return from activities.

That's just what I wanted to post, very well said.

What has been asked for in the first post would cause a hyperinflation. The winner of this would be MA, as items would have an extremely high markup, lots of money would be in EU, money that is basically owned by MindArk the moment you deposit it. So also as a reseller a hyperinflation wouldn't get you more money.

Besides that, Kin Tama claims that MA is controlling the market too much. But that's the point, MA CAN and WILL control the market.

 

[gordonmartin]

Hi There, my hapeenys worth

And here is me thinking it was made of HULA HOOPS I think this whole thread just CANNOT be serious

if you would poke around here a little more, you would notice that your statement is as far from the truth as it can be, and inflammatory to boot ... -rep



no, it's actually made of barbeque spare ribs

 

[Naverith]

O.K., I just read this BS thread and my conclusions are this:

The original poster is just another of those "DAMMIT U OWE ME A LIVING" kinda Socialist creature who thinks using criminal tactics to illegally raise prices can be justified 'cause he desearves a profit?

Or is he another 13 year old brat, using the "ethics and personal integrity are superflous" concept to try and rip people off?

Or is he an illiterate bafoon, having no grasp of grammer, trying to gain sympathy from his equally moronic compadres?

Either choice: his mind-set is typical of the far-too-many criminal minds populating EU. In fact, his attitude and actions have been diagnosed as a serious disease:

Reselleritis

 

[JungleStalker]

Funny thread. Lol it actually scares me to post stuff on Ef sometimes =P

Then again I would not start thread's like this one lol

 

[Frigid]

Yeah the original poster was a bit clueless. He thought we were dumb because he thought we didn't understand what he was trying to do.

We did.

What he failed to understand is that while you can make the price of something *seem* higher( which is a frowned-upon practice) somebody has to buy it and people are smarter than he gives them credit for. He didn't understand that what he was suggesting has been tried time and time again, and is always un-successful.

 

[plummer]

Gratz for a great plan. I have had this idea for a long time just never spent the time to properly right it out and push it. The economics is sound. Ma isn't hurt per say, rather people who deposited in past have an advantage as their items get inflated now. And people who use tt items to hunt, mine , etc. will have a big advantage as higher end crafted items will go through the roof. But so what the ubers can afford it and will continue to make a profit if they try hard enough to. It will change the economics for the lower end players, and non-depositors. The game will become a lot more fun for a lot more people as they will have an easier time turning a profit with discipline and work, and that will leave more time and peds for fun.
+rep

 

[plummer]

how does a miner break even when all his tools go up in price, but his finds stay the same?
how does a hunter break even when the price of weapons gets hiked up and thus his eco goes down the drain?

sure as a reseller it doent change a thing, except numericaly, but as a "player" it does

just as a idea what ur model proposes

jaguar armor 100k
boar armor 80k
imk2 1.2 million peds
mm - 1.2 million peds
10 ped esi 1k peds

ok so lets not look at item prices, lets look at decay

a hunt where i spent 100 peds repair would now cost me 1000 peds repair oO

u really think that will attract new players and help the game to expand?
i personally think this is economic suicide

Actually not, the repair stays the same as that is through the ma tt/repair terminal economy. Also, all tt tools are still cheap, and they become economical as prices for resources rise. Same thing with tt weapons. I think it really would increase fun for more people

 

[Skippie]

A kinda basic rule when posting stuff like this, carefully READ over what you write and try to make it easy to follow. ATM the post is to me...alot of whining, and alot of talk without any consistency. Its like shouting " WFTWSJHSJ hWUWYSH SHIFT!!! " to the cashier when you had to pay for 2 cans of soda when you only bought one, instead of explaining what you actually mean.

rants are usually like this, tho.

+rep for a great rant. +rep for mice for a great reply to a rant. i enjoyed reading them both. kept me from feeling the need to rant, atm, myself.

thx to both.

 

[NastyCenturion]

Actually not, the repair stays the same as that is through the ma tt/repair terminal economy. Also, all tt tools are still cheap, and they become economical as prices for resources rise. Same thing with tt weapons. I think it really would increase fun for more people

hahahhhahahahhahahahahahaha, man some ppl just make me

 

[plummer]

hahahhhahahahhahahahahahaha, man some ppl just make me

Glad to provide laughs for you NastyCenturion. I do think game would be better if more people that tried it stayed. That will only happen if people who aren't comfortable to deposit right away have what to enjoy. As sweating is not rewarding anymore (for .65 or so), and harder to do ( it seems to me) lately, that's not happening. The only way a newb is going to stay long enough to get hooked and start depositing is if it becomes easier to make a profit by playing at a lower level, i.e. with tt weapons, mining tools, faps, etc.. The ubers and heavy depositors are hooked and will pay what it costs to continue having their fun, and in the long run the game will be more economical for them also due to the lower relative cost of bombps/ probes, ammo. The ubers need more people in game to increase their fun, to provide sweat, and to hopefully get hooked and become next generation of customers for their crafted items.
Only area that is harmed is limited area. I don't consider this a great loss, as this is MA's biggest scam. They got people used to considering weapons/ tools as disposable. Much more logical to pay a markup on something one time and then to just repair it at tt value than to pay markup over and over each tiome you use it up. So in conclusion, I think most people would benefit from the changes proposed by the thread starter.

 

[Congadawg]

That's kind of selfish. so the hunter should be the only person in the game who can play affordably. I'm primarily a hunter and I dont agree with that at all. I've always had a philosophy of "let the community decide" when it comes to prices. It's why 99 percent of the time I start my auction bids at 100 pecent with no buyout. your items are that percentage because that's what they're worth. there's millions of hides and such flowing around... why would I pay a ton for something I could just go get myself in a small hunt. thinking before posting can sometimes keep you from looking like the fool.

 

[NastyCenturion]

Glad to provide laughs for you NastyCenturion. I do think game would be better if more people that tried it stayed. That will only happen if people who aren't comfortable to deposit right away have what to enjoy. As sweating is not rewarding anymore (for .65 or so), and harder to do ( it seems to me) lately, that's not happening. The only way a newb is going to stay long enough to get hooked and start depositing is if it becomes easier to make a profit by playing at a lower level, i.e. with tt weapons, mining tools, faps, etc.. The ubers and heavy depositors are hooked and will pay what it costs to continue having their fun, and in the long run the game will be more economical for them also due to the lower relative cost of bombps/ probes, ammo. The ubers need more people in game to increase their fun, to provide sweat, and to hopefully get hooked and become next generation of customers for their crafted items.
Only area that is harmed is limited area. I don't consider this a great loss, as this is MA's biggest scam. They got people used to considering weapons/ tools as disposable. Much more logical to pay a markup on something one time and then to just repair it at tt value than to pay markup over and over each tiome you use it up. So in conclusion, I think most people would benefit from the changes proposed by the thread starter.

The thread starter only wants others to deposit for him not more. Consider this if all crafters stop manufacturing all L wepons wich beginers use for skilling then after the opalo u can buy a mk 2 or 21 defender or whatever non - L weapon and u will habe 1 HA u know what that is ? MA profit because u miss allot u dont have max damage but the decat is the same as using it full. U have no ideea how the economy works

 

[Bird]

Only area that is harmed is limited area. I don't consider this a great loss, as this is MA's biggest scam.

It seems that you have never taken a look on the L items or on the skill system itself.

In fact I am using L items now, because they are better for skilling and more economical than non L items depending on how skilled you are.

 

[Molly]

ok not bothered to reply to each statement directly but just as an example look at 3rd world countries compared to countries like the uk.
The uk has more money flowing through the market so basic commodities like electricity and water are dirt cheap to afford and people can afford things like a new plasma tv car and mobile ever few months, more money flow through the system, whereas a country like ethiopia has only money to afford basic needs like electricity and water.
We are playing a game where essential needs such as bullets is all we can afford when breaking even on hunts and thus are ethiopians.

There is a fundamental problem in your arguments and that is that the EU economy is not like the real world economy in one important respect.

Professions in real life are wealth-generating. The act of doing useful work creates a product or some state of the world that is 'better' than it was before, and which has some intrinsic value that someone would pay for. E.g. grain farmers start with bags of seeds and a year later they have lots more seeds, or a car manufacturer starts with a load of raw materials and turns it into a car, which has much more use.

In Entropia, professions are wealth-destroying. Hunting, mining and crafting remove wealth from the world because on average, less TT value is returned than is spent. Wealth generation can never happen in Entropia.

In the real world, having more money flowing around causes people to do more work or work more efficiently to earn that money. Because more work is done, more wealth is generated so we can all afford TVs and all that. Advances in efficiency over time require less human work to be done to reduce all the essentials, so they get cheaper, and more people are available to do non-essential work. They don't just appear cheaper because other stuff is more expensive.

 

[Nell]

Well the OP can corner the sweat market by paying me 20 ped for 1k lol

 

[mastermesh]

People should do more like Atkuma and Miners Mafia

If you have a shop - sell your stuff at below auction prices. You sales will increase. Since I've found awesome deals at both of those shops, those are just about the only places I regularly shop nowadays... (if Miners are reading this, please restock your shop's belkar, and blausarium, and if you feel up to it, adding alcines at a good price would be a good idea - I bought you out on b&b over the weekend and have needs for alcines in the future...as do lots of other people. These are some of the main ingredients in some of the compenents that go in to the new (L) melee weapons... please keep prices low if you can - us crafters are getting hosed on the prices of basic target assessment units in auction)...

As far as jacking up of prices go... on autions, people buy what the need when they need it. If your sale is on page 6 and someone's selling cheaper than you or just a bit above your price, their sale on page 1 will sell and your's won't get a bid... unless it's way cheaper. Also, more people should put on a buyout price... and make it descently low... some people do buy you out, which will give you money faster. At times, on some rarer items, I actually have only gone after buyout auctions because the bidding war is too dang hard to keep up with - even if you bid with less than 10 minutes left, you will be overbid.

 

[HvSW]

WOOT ???

BTW: that is the reaction on the original Kin Tama's Post, not mastermesh's - that one makes much more sense