EU sure has bad rep....

[Sparhawke]

I am actually getting into the "service" now, having found my operating level I guess and this is the whole problem...people are told to find their niche and all that does is make people waste many many peds uselessly on a completely incomprehensible lootpool system, decay system, critical hit and accuracy system as well as a completely confusing situation where people dont know if the item they are holding from one day to the next will still be available or if it will become limited/obselete.

Mindarks whole problem as I have said extensively is their absolute refusal to bring out any documentation, even after 10 years there is absolutely nothing to educate players before they sign-up with everything instead in user-based forum which you must admit, is a fairly haphazard way to run a business.

Couple this for their propensity for misleading players who step off the ship and you have a disaster waiting to happen and those people simply walking away NEVER to deposit or telling people what a load of liars and scammers Mindark are:

I dont care what anyone says, advertising that you can get a cashcard today that you can use at any bank or restaurant to withdraw money is wrong pure and simple when it does not exist and is likely never to and I challenge anyone to be able to come up with reasons why it isn't.

Another thing that is wrong is telling new players that they can get free oil at the rig, WTF are Mindark thinking??! The only players experienced enough to get free oil there are the ubers and similarly VERY experienced players who haven't just stepped off the ship...even getting there will take weeks of exploration.

Mindarks whole advertising strategy is to tell people they can make money off this game yet it is next to impossible with all the deposit fees, bank or agent fees, decay ingame, natural expenditure and then withdrawal and then agent fees again...maybe a tiny proportion are lucky to have hit it bigtime but even so, you need to deposit a hell of a lot of money into the system to even stand a chance unless you got lucky once and happened to be around when ModFaps were cheap.

What Mindark really need to do is come clean with new users and tell it like it is, yes.,..it is free to download and it is free to play but if you deposit $ it could last a very long time, otherwise the average new user can expect to lose $2/hour.

I would have far more respect for them then because it would be clear as day, for playing this game an hour it will likely cost me a beer.

Mindark has a bad reputation because they refused to actually tell people how it really is and instead rely on fairy tales.

One other thing that bothers me is the way they throw newbies to the wolves in the case of the mentoring system, which should be a way of getting people learning about the game from the more experienced players but which is in actual fact a trap when they let any person do it, implemented purely to make people waste money having to get 2000 points in some unwanted skill until they can go off and do their own thing. (Mentoring should be done freely, I will happily answer any question anyone asks of me anywhere as I am sure the best mentors here would without demanding that they be tied down in supplication to me for months)

Anyways, I wonder how many people will hate this post for the truth it exposes and opinions expressed? lol

I am going crafting and if anyone needs me I am not available, that elusive All Time High is still out there.

 

[Pianoman178]

Sparhawke, sadly I agree with almost everything you stated. I have said quite a few times that MA needs to be more open about the systems which make up this game.

It really is true that the people who have played this game since day one are the ones who are now on easy street. I don't necessarily have a problem with that...they have been here the longest and have rightfully earned their position at the top. But for entry and mid-level players such as myself, the thought of becoming even half as successful as them is nothing more than a pipe dream.

The newbs and mid-level players just chase that carrot-on-a-stick that is being "uber." The truth is, mid level players at this day and age have no chance whatsoever of becoming "uber." Anytime there is a skill event MA wants people to think they are catching up. Well guess what...the ubers are skilling twice as fast too. And they have a three year head start

I have said this so many times: Treat this game as a form of entertainment. There is a small chance you will hit it big and win some cash...but there is a HUGE chance that you won't. Enjoy the game for what it is...don't go crazy trying to become uber


-Piano

 

[Jimmy B]

And it really looks "good" when post about problems with money withdrawal is deleted by an admin. At least people should learn EULA has its meaning.

I'm a moderator not an admin, the post was deleted because it defamed MindArk and thus pushed the EULA too far. EF is a fan-forum run by users of EU and we choose to abide by the EULA. If you want to post stuff that breaks the EULA, find somewhere else to do it.

The money withdrawal problem was a result of him signing up to EU with a false name.

Mindarks whole problem as I have said extensively is their absolute refusal to bring out any documentation

Yes, the lack of clarity about how loot mechanisms work inevitably leads to some concern from the userbase. Not because there's necessarily anything wrong, but due to lack of knowledge things that happen can lead to wrong conclusions being drawn.

A perfect example being the recent thread observing very high loots in newly acquired LAs. Could just be a fluke, I can also see some legitimate non-fluke ways it could occur, but its inevitably going to draw some concern.

Mindarks whole advertising strategy is to tell people they can make money off this game

Mindark don't really advertise the game at all afaik. Most people seem to have joined from reading news articles or hearing about it from a friend. It is possible to make money from EU anyway so there's no lie there.

I do agree though that the cash card shouldn't be mentioned while it doesn't exist.

yet it is next to impossible with all the deposit fees, bank or agent fees, decay ingame, natural expenditure and then withdrawal and then agent fees again...maybe a tiny proportion are lucky to have hit it bigtime but even so, you need to deposit a hell of a lot of money into the system to even stand a chance unless you got lucky once and happened to be around when ModFaps were cheap.

I could sell-up and withdraw a not insignificant profit should I choose to. Not through trading/inflation profits, nor through ATH. If you think hard and carefully about how you play, and record and analyse your results, you can profit at any level without huge investment.

What Mindark really need to do is come clean with new users and tell it like it is, yes.,..it is free to download and it is free to play but if you deposit $ it could last a very long time, otherwise the average new user can expect to lose $2/hour.

MA quote the $0.5-$1.5 average cost per avatar hour all over their webpages.

Whilst I would like to see more transparency about how some mechanisms in EU work, I don't think there's anything particularly misleading on either the EU website or the MA website.

 

[XingTianNu]

Please make upp your mind...either you make money in EU or you loose money.


And i am curious as to why you quit EU but carry on commenting in EF...since you are not a person who complains i mean

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...o-many-skillgain-events-taking-fun-out-6.html

Read page 6 !

-rep cos you are not using search and if you did you will find that i always profited hunting and always lost minning and crafting !

Find one of mine post where i say i quit becose im losing !

Is there rules that say you need to play Entropia to be apart of Entropia Forum comunity ?

I bet ther is many ppl that dont play Entropia any more hanging on EF cos of the comunity.

Last think if you loked the post history you will see that i played from March 2008 up to june and then went away for 8 months came back like 15 days ago.Like i say use serach to gather info about ppl.

 

[Yirrk]

+Rep to Sparhawke for telling it like it is.

 

[Matho]

I'm a moderator not an admin, the post was deleted because it defamed MindArk and thus pushed the EULA too far. EF is a fan-forum run by users of EU and we choose to abide by the EULA. If you want to post stuff that breaks the EULA, find somewhere else to do it.

What Jimmy??
Where have i posted stuff that breaks EULA? I just wrote, this example of oizon should be shown to keep ppl from breaking EULA. And where it can leads to.

And defaming Mindark....only one who do it, its MA itself. Changing rules, loot distribution, questionable events, absence of meaningfull marketing,
3.33% of players who stayed and keep playing - this has defamed this company. And that is what is this thread about, isnt it?

 

[Miles]

Complexity, Opacity, and Hype

I am actually getting into the "service" now, having found my operating level I guess and this is the whole problem...people are told to find their niche and all that does is make people waste many many peds uselessly on a completely incomprehensible lootpool system, decay system, critical hit and accuracy system as well as a completely confusing situation where people dont know if the item they are holding from one day to the next will still be available or if it will become limited/obselete.

Mindarks whole problem as I have said extensively is their absolute refusal to bring out any documentation, even after 10 years there is absolutely nothing to educate players before they sign-up with everything instead in user-based forum which you must admit, is a fairly haphazard way to run a business.

...

The complexity of the systems, combined with their opacity, is what makes EU/FPC such a satisfying experience in the long run. If it was easy to understand and clearly explained you would be deprived of the need to learn on your own and the satisfaction of discovery. To make things so simple every noob fresh off the shuttle could understand them would sacrifice the richness and complexity that makes it worthwhile for the long haul. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Yes, the mentor system is mess, and Marco has stated that they plan to give it an overall, as well as improving the new arrivals area. No arguments there.

Yes, marketing the cashcard that does not exist is wrong, but I do wonder why so many get so caught up in the make-loads-of-money advertising hype. Do you believe, or take at face value, the adverts you see for any other product or service? Advertising hype is just that, hype. In the immortal words of Flavor Flav (lol) "Don't believe the hype."

Remember, as new colonists, we are dropped off with nothing but the clothes on our backs, the shoes on our feet, and the brains in our heads, into a wild and dangerous place to find a way to fend for ourselves. For the resourceful and curious, this is an inspiring situation. For the lazy and spoon-fed masses, it is a nightmare. FPC is designed to satisfy the former; the latter have a million games to choose from already.

Keep in mind that your avatar is still very young in the time frame of a life on Calypso, even if you would be a veteran of many other games already.

One final note; you'd best get over the "It's all so unfair that the old-timers had Mod Faps fall on them like rain and they all profit and it was so easy for them and so hard for us" mindset. It is wrong on every count and will only make you bitter.

Today there are many advantages to new players that did not exist back then, and Calypso has always been (and should always be) a hard place to survive. Really, when it come right down to it, the only advantage they have is time. It is what they did with that time that sets apart the successful from the unsuccessful. Keep playing and one day time will be on your side too.



Miles

 

[Sparhawke]

The complexity of the systems, combined with their opacity, is what makes EU/FPC such a satisfying experience in the long run. If it was easy to understand and clearly explained you would be deprived of the need to learn on your own and the satisfaction of discovery. To make things so simple every noob fresh off the shuttle could understand them would sacrifice the richness and complexity that makes it worthwhile for the long haul. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Remember, as news colonists, we are dropped off with nothing but the clothes on our backs, the shoes on our feet, and the brains in our heads, into a wild and dangerous place to find a way to fend for ourselves. For the resourceful and curious, this is an inspiring situation. For the lazy and spoon-fed masses, it is a nightmare. FPC is designed to satisfy the former; the latter have a million games to choose from already.

One final note; you'd best get over the "It's all so unfair that the old-timers had Mod Faps fall on them like rain and they all profit and it was so easy for them and so hard for us" mindset. It is wrong on every count and will only make you bitter.

I have no problem with working things out on my own, my problem with it is that not even the absolute basics are covered and what they do cover often is wildly inaccurate:

Drill Towers

Very large resource deposits yield a drill tower. A drill tower automatically extracts resources in regular intervals and needs to be emptied once every 24 hours for smooth sustained operation.

Has anyone ever had a mining tower last more than 24 hours?

I know it is a tiny thing in comparison to some things but if they cannot even be bothered fixing little things like this how are people supposed to be confident that they intend to do anything about the big things?

MINERAL REFINERS and ENERGY REFINERS can be bought from the TRADE TERMINALS. Once the refiner is in your inventory drag it onto your avatar to equip it. By pressing the left mouse button you will activate the refiner and be presented with the refining window. Drag the ore/enmatter into its respective refiner and press REFINE. Ores will be refined into INGOTS and enmatters into a range of refined energy products.

The first statement is absolutely correct, you can buy refiners from the trade terminal but absolutely no mention is made that there are better ones available to craft with better durability...a basic piece of information surely?

I have read Alices guide extensively and this is far superior to anything Mindark gave, yet it is mostly based upon speculation, would it really harm Mindark to tell people how the COS bar works and the percentages of getting anything rather than having a full green bar which most newbies assume is 100% rather than the more real 30% maybe?

It is this whole problem of misleading players, either with no real information or simply not caring enough to make sure people have the real facts before they blow all their money on a no-hopers chance believing that the solid green bar means success.

For example:

Would anyone mind telling me what chance of success I have to actually get something here rather than pure speculation?

(If you dont have a clue after being here for some years what chance do newbies have?)

Would it really harm Mindark to have a small bar just above the green saying you have 79% chance of success which you can actually see increase over time??!

Anyways, on the point about the ModFaps being long gone and to get over it, I have no problem that I will never get a modfap or am extremely unlikely to, working hard for something is what I do if I set myself a goal. I have been in many such games where super-rare items dropped years before and if I wanted them I simply worked for them, only took me 4 weeks to get enough for a very rare party hat in another game where it takes some years...

If I want a modfap in the future I will simply decide that is what I want, and I will work towards it slowly but surely.

MA quote the $0.5-$1.5 average cost per avatar hour all over their webpages.

Whilst I would like to see more transparency about how some mechanisms in EU work, I don't think there's anything particularly misleading on either the EU website or the MA website.

This is average, of course there will be experienced higher level players who will know about economy and not so high players who will have some understanding about how little things work, but when you are new off the ship the first thing you are likely to do is get the BIGGEST gun you can find, and the BIGGEST bullets to spray all over and go running off to the BIGGEST monster you can find to spray bullets all over the place and die.

Once people have deposited $10 and blown it in the first 30 minutes how likely do you think it will be that they return for another crack at it?

 

[Miles]

Sparhawke:

As far as I know drill towers (as opposed to claim rods) remain until all ore or enmater has been retrieved by the owner, but unfortuantely I've never had that "problem" myself, although I hope to some day.

As for the refiner - the information given is correct, and minimal. No, I see nothing wrong with that.

As for the crafting terminal - I was frightened of them for months. which is probably a good thing, but I was able to find out more or less what it meant when I needed. I was resourceful and curious.

It takes some time to learn what you need to know, but what's the rush? Patience is a most valuable trait here, and experience is the most effective teacher.



Miles

 

[Sparhawke]

This is what Mindark need to think about, not a one off payment of $10 from some idiot with a gun, but retention.

Give the guy with the gun the information that it is simply too big for him to handle effectively or efficiently and he will set his sights a lot lower, going for the Opalo rather than the thermo-nuclear rocket launcher against a young Daikaba.

Once this happens he will find that his cash lasts for a good 6 hours if he sweats a lot at the same time rather than 20 minutes and he is likely to have the thought in his head:

"That was bloody fun, instead of getting rat-assed at the pub I will spend $10 and get some beers in and have fun with some new friends"

I know I would

 

[jod]

Sparhawke what MA mean with the explanation of the towers is that they take 24hrs to drill a batch out and if you dont visit it after 24hrs it will stop drilling until the batch is claimed.

So if you want it to keep drilling properly you should go back every 24hrs and clean it out.

and as has been stated towers do not expire.I had one in the ground for well over month.

 

[Sparhawke]

Sparhawke what MA mean with the explanation of the towers is that they take 24hrs to drill a batch out and if you dont visit it after 24hrs it will stop drilling until the batch is claimed.

So if you want it to keep drilling properly you should go back every 24hrs and clean it out.

and as has been stated towers do not expire.I had one in the ground for well over month.

Oh ok then

Guess I still have to experience that

 

[XingTianNu]

Yes towers last as long as there is resources i seen towers stand in place at most for 4 days. It was near twin.

And i think in overal they improve look at minning amp now you got profession standing on that before it was not you could put 105 on youre first day at minning. Imagine how that miner felt whith no skills.

On the opacity part i agree MA is not realy open game. many think are hiden ( not shore i agree whith you Miles ) i understand the part DISCOVER, but if you take that minning amp as example im shore many new miners use it whith low skills thinking no mather what it will increeses the amount of ores and to day we find that actualy ther was profesion standing behind it.

Another think is the hunting amp i pointed to MA that the description was wrong back in march 2008 ( actualy only the max dmg is listed, not that amp is like gun whith min/max dmg ) i belive is to put users on wrong path and mayby done in purpose... becose now we are geting close to 10 months and i see no fix on the description!
I bet you this was told to MA years before i did, if i discovered it another person did it before me. Sorry MA that is plain wrong.

 

[Naifas Anaconda]

A friend of mine has a drill tower NE of wolverine still in existence after almost 1 year. He didn't drill everything out and it's there, pumping .

 

[XingTianNu]

A friend of mine has a drill tower NE of wolverine still in existence after almost 1 year. He didn't drill everything out and it's there, pumping .

I was thinking after long period of time it may get overwriten by update patch.If i was him i will dig it before CE2.

 

[Miles]

Retention

In any service where you can try it for free, user retention rates will be much lower than in services where there is an upfront cost. This should be self-evident to anyone who gives it a moment's thought. The goal of MA is not retain everyone, but to expose as many as possible to their unique service in order to find the people (a minority for sure) who do find it to be what they are looking for.

If EU/FPC was the same in every respect, except that instead of a free download you had to pay for a retail software package, there would be far fewer people who would try it but retention rates would be much higher.

The question is which avenue would lead to more players in the long run. I believe that the method MA has chosen does result in more total players, and does so at a far lower cost. However, one of the side effects is that all those who give it a try ("What the hell, it's free.") and don't stay creates a larger pool of the unsatisfied who can spread around all that neg rep the OP is talking about.

In the balance though, it attracts many people who would never consider buying the game at a retail level. Because EU/FPC is fundamentally different from the vast majority of games on the market, it appeals to many who are not interested in other MMORPG's (like me) and who only give it a try because it is free and they are curious.

The result is more lookers, more quitters, and more haters - but almost certainly more players.



Miles

 

[Lavawalker]

I think MJ needs to handle the such cases

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG5NhkxQJQc[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Lavawalker]

In any service where ....

The result is more lookers, more quitters, and more haters - but almost certainly more players.



Miles

Well stated Miles

For the most part, the negative viewpoints are heard the most.

The positives points rarely get a mention as those participants are too busy having fun and enjoying themselves with what is on offer

 

[Sirhc]

The first statement is absolutely correct, you can buy refiners from the trade terminal but absolutely no mention is made that there are better ones available to craft with better durability...a basic piece of information surely?

OK I don't need to go over the mining tower thing since others have.

EU is a place where you have to figure things out on your own. MA gives you the basics then you have to figure it out for yourself. This forum and other places are good ways to ask questions, research data, and compare data to make your own decisions on how to participate and how to budget. There is a lot more data available to new players today but ultimately you have to figure out what works and what doesn't. EU is never ending learning process with a lot of trial and error. Certain info is deliberately not available in those cases you have to figure out just what it means or what it means to you because everyone has their own theories.

Can EU be frustrating? Oh yeah even to some who have been here for years but most of us know where to look and how to ask when we don't know certain things. I constantly ask my socmates about things and they ask as well. We all share our information as best we can amongst ourselves. If I never found a great society I don't think I would still be here today. The lack of information albeit frustrating at times does initiate communication via participants in EU and on the internet in forums and database collections. If we were all handed a basic guide book on how to be successful in EU there would be less communication IMHO.

When I started in PE I thought I would never unlock some of the higher level skill unlocks. Today even with the skill nerf I have been able to unlock things and play solo at a level I never thought I would have in the past. Will there always be those at a higher level than me? Of course that is just a reality in EU and in real life. Very few can say they are at the top of their game and there are always multitudes of others waiting to displace them. It takes determination and patience to work your way up in EU and IMO its worth it. I would rather revel in a successful unlock that I worked hard to get rather than feel like the game is just moving me along so I can wait for the next levels to be unlocked just like everyone else.

The likelyhood of me ever owning an IMP or MOD FAP is probably nil but there are alternatives even if they are a bit more costly to use I just have to use my grey noodle between my ears to know when and when not to use them.

Lets face it though EU is a grinder and if you don't play smart and do some research it can be a very harsh place. Nothing comes easy but that makes the rewards so much more special when they do happen. All I can say is continue to grind, set, and complete your goals. Rome was not built in a day.

 

[Sparhawke]

Rome was not built in a day.

But they didn't employ me for that job either

I dont mind trying to work things out,it is just that some things are patently non-sensical for example the auction starting fee.

I was looking at it last night to consider making a graph of the entire thing that might be helpful to me and others but then it quickly became apparent that it does not follow any kind of conventional logic at all...you could have 20 different percentages all with the same starting price:

100% = 50
103.33% =54
106.67% =59 (mathematially even for someone with dyscalculia it looks like it should be 106.66%)
110% = 64
113.33% = 69

This is based on 1k basic filters at 10ped, each time the number goes up by 5pec after the initial 4 at the start, now if you go and start at some random number which is not round like 10ped but where you HAVE to start at that point you end up with a completely different progression.

I do not have the programming skills to write up a program that would be needed and dont even know where to start with the spreadsheet and this is the main problem, Mindark assume that everyone will be on the same equal footing with mathematics but we clearly are not.

(And dont even get me started on the many decimal places needed in calculations but rounded down values lol)

Anyways, on that note I am gonna go back to crafting and see if I can squeeze out some break even, or at least not a complete loss)

 

[Miles]

Auction Fees

http://www.entropiauniverse.com/en/rich/5226.html




Miles

 

[Jimmy B]

Where have i posted stuff that breaks EULA?

You didn't as far as I saw. Someone else's post that I deleted in my opinion pushed the EULA too far. You commented on the deletion, so I explained why I had deleted it. I never said you had broken the EULA.

 

[Naifas Anaconda]

I was thinking after long period of time it may get overwriten by update patch.If i was him i will dig it before CE2.

I think he doesn't care.. i guess he did the math and figured out only a couple of peds were left in the tower. I will have to ask him exactly when did he get that tower. I think it was on the first days after the landgrab, when a lot of thorifoids were around. He was hunting them and dropped a bomb.. and bam!
The tower was still there before merry mayhem. I don't know if it's still there today, cause it's been a few weeks since last time i logged. If you find a tower owned by "melocybe", it's the one.

 

[Igorl]

Good thread is turning into

To remind everyone: plz look at the title of thread. It says "EU sure has bad rep...." and discusses third party media oppinion of EU.

I.

 

[Sparhawke]

Good thread is turning into

To remind everyone: plz look at the title of thread. It says "EU sure has bad rep...." and discusses third party media oppinion of EU.

I.

If Jimmy had thought it nessessary to say that dont you think he would've done? (Being a moderator as he is)

How Mindark misrepresent various things such as free oil to newbies and the whole cashcard debacle is why they have such a low reputation which is what we are discussing and hopefully how to fix it

 

[McCormick]

There are many forums saying how bad entropia is including :

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2896454,
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/projectentropia/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-39681858&pid=448621

and many more, I'm not gonna put em up here cause...well...there are too many

[YOUTUBE]3SX3JnUhTaE[/YOUTUBE]

 

[McCormick]

Good thread is turning into

To remind everyone: plz look at the title of thread. It says "EU sure has bad rep...." and discusses third party media oppinion of EU.

I.

Well, a section on the gamespot forum, 6 people, 2 different arguments, all within 11 posts.

The 1st link even needs you to register, so I dont see anything. Hillarious.

Adding the line :
"and many more, I'm not gonna put em up here cause...well...there are too many "

...this thread sure has not shown "EU sure has bad rep..." to me.

If you invest big, or dont deposit at all, you can make money. Thats the way it is. Thats the way MA is advertising it. Of course MA has to advertise it the very positive way. But its up to you how to spend the money.

 

[Jimmy B]

How Mindark misrepresent various things such as free oil to newbies

Well to be honest there is free oil for newbies if they can rise to the challenge of getting there, and find a day when the rig 'owners' are absent/generous.

I don't think the oil should be one of the first things you're told about in-game, as its just too confusing. I ran around the land south of PA for hours looking for these supposed oil fields But at the same time its not a lie, I've passed through the rig plenty of times and seen plenty of noobs hanging around there. I actually think its a good trip for a newcomer to make, interesting challenge and you'll learn a bit about Calypso along the way. But its not a first-day thing I'll grant.

 

[Snuggins]

I read the whole thread.

EU has some detractors? Not much of a surprise. You can find people bitching about practically everything that has ever existed.

So many people just like to run their mouths when they have no idea what they are talking about...

I don't think this means EU has a bad reputation. It just isn't well known enough to have a real reputation at all imo.

I agree with Sirhc's assertion that there are more people in EU than ever. It's a noticeably larger amount than when I arrived. Retention rate doesn't really matter if the population is growing in absolute numbers according to what MA wants and can handle.

 

[TommyDaGreat]

I have read the thread and even if I cannot comment on specifics, all I can say is that the message First Planet Company will deliver when it comes to marketing Planet Calypso will be quite different compared to the old MindArk-ways. For instance, I believe in meeting expectations, not over-hyping.

I agree. I prefer that way too. It is not good to give out estimates until near the finish date of something. Otherwise some people's impatience will ruin it. A good product with time taken is better than a broken product quickly released! And some people doesn't realize that.

But I can understand when they feel let down because of misleading ETAs...

But also, sometimes it is nice to get a VU with suprises and go like "What?!?!?"

Like when fruits were introduced. And the Opalo.

Surprises are also needed!