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EU: What it Is; Is Not; Could Be...

yes.. don't mix up FPS and MMORPGs..

this is a pure RPG-system, with visuals that resemble FPS. i like it :)
 
I have a hard time picturing what rl mechanics would make pvp more playerbased skill.
I am playing Conan beta where they try to lift pvp from point and click and button mashing to quick eye<> finger coordination, using intelligent button/combo combinations.
Would that be what you are suggesting could happen with the cry engine?
It was my believe that the cry engine was merely a video upgrade.
 
At present, combat is still push-button operated, with the outcome only determined by your skills and equipment. It has almost nothing to do with your ability to actually aim, run about dodging fire, and use any real strategy. We just line up, shoot-shoot-shoot, reloading and repeating, but it really doesn't resemble any actual combat, or even futuristic, high-tech combat.
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You can turn off the auto aim i believe in options, hit spacebar to unlock the camrea, go into first person view and that way u can run around shooting with ur own aiming.

tho of course u probably hit less bcause ur not auto aimed.
And hits are still determined by skill and luck
but... atleast u get to aim now :)
 
I'd love it if Entropia PvP was like a proper FPS. Would be nice to transfer some FPS skills over.
 
Click click click = handle pulls on the fruit machine.

Entropia is many things, but more a casino than an RPG
 
I think u hit the nail on the head here, except for a few aspects.

1- see how those real pvp'ers act in pvp, some of them could take many ppl with little or no armour, they dont just aim and shoot shoot, they fap steal, jump out and dodge, make you loose them completely b4 reapearing behind u. Granded its not close to true FPS games, with head shots and actual player skills but there are still tactics in pvp.

2- Cryengine is only a platform to make things more life like, I certainly hope they enhance the hunting prof. I would love to be able to roll, hide behind terrain, lay down and shoot, crawl on the groud .. etc, one can only hope at this point that MA will use "some" of the cryengine features to enhange the content and playability of the game, not just make us "prettier".

Well i think u got a good idea here, lets hope MA read this post one day


over and out
 
I just had an epiphany..
The reason why there are so many EU hunters in their mid-30ies (and one in his 80ies the rumour goes) is that they - eh..we - still like to play FPS but our reactions are now so slow that we get constantly pwned in normal FPS where quick reactions and skill matter.

But seriously...
While changing the focus to player-based skills would make the game seriously more fun to play, I doubt it's going to happen for one reason: Cheats! Name me one real FPS which guarantees that it's impossible to cheat. If you play against a cheater in a normal FPS, you can tell yourself that the cheater is just cheating himself..it gets a bit more hard to swallow if the cheater can loot your money (or just get a comparative hunting advantage by cheating). Even if MA could fight the cheats with patches, new ones would pop up now and then, which would be highly demotivating for the honest majority.
 
oh man, i'd love to transfer my quake and tribes skills over to PE (would really give some ubers a run for their money i think ;))

However, i don't think PE should go that direction, but i'll grant that the combat could be looked at a fair bit more.
 
Unless CE2 creates terrain that an avatar can use as cover (protection) instead of concealment (hiding) I do not see it making any difference other than the obvious: if your machine cannot handle CE2, then your avatar will move and react worse than it does now.

Skills may affect the probability of a certain outcome in EU but CE2 on its' own will not. Exept maybe increase the probability of lagging or a crash to desktop on lesser machines.
 
this thread made me LOL cause no real pvper uses autoaim people also dont use 3rd person view and if you dont set up or options just right you well die in mear secs even if you have eon armor on , you must not have really spent alot of time pvping if you cant dance you better have 300hp + modfap and eon cause your going down. I dont look at it as a dumbed down pvp I look at it as a complex version of say the halo pvp (headon no hiding crap) see cause while pvp skills can make you last longer time in a fight it wont make you kill people unless you have the gear to do it.
They did "dumb down" pvp by making it slower and makeing it easyer to hit your target there by reduceing dancings effectiveness but if you cant aim while runing around your gonna die unless like I said you had modfap+eon+300hp
really tho it adds to pvp not taking away from it.
and i guess your right its not a true FPS but it is a one of a kinda MMOFPSRPG
so if you dont like that your dmg is reduced to 1 then maybe you should play a real fps and not try and change the way this one of a kinda system works.
 
casino or RPG is not the question.
from the gamedesigners point of view, EU is a RPG. and it is a MMO RPG.
imo, it is possible to enhance FPS-games with RPG-elements (and many of them are), but bringing FPS-elements into an RPG would kill the game!

you have to think about this: what are the motivations for a gamer to chose a certain game(genre)? what are the aims?

in a FPS, the motivation is to get the best shootout-simulation that is technically possible. the aim is to develop the fastest eye-hand-coordination and tactical knowledge. FPS-players usually jump between games very often.

in an RPG, the aim is to develop your character over time.
long-time-dedication and concentration on one game is what is required to succeed.
bringing any real-skill elements into a MMORPG would kill the game (and simply make it another FPS).


on top of that, no networking/server-tecnology is able to process real-time combat in MMO (>100 participants) games. we will eventually get there, but not now. any game that tried that so far failed.


so, imo, keep game-genres seperated.

it is easy for a gamer to play a MMORPG for some hours, then switch to UT for some quick action before he hits the racetrack in GT4.
it is easy for a gamer to fall into the dream of an all around thing, where he can meet 10000s of ppl, drive his racecar with the best available physics while his mate is FPS-shooting the ppl on the sidewalk -- it just wouldn't work out well.
think of the classic games of the last 20 years. the ATH-most influencing and best-selling games. most of them kept their gameplay relative simple, and concentrated on one main-mechanic..

trux
 
I think EU is working there way towards the goal you seek but it’s a long ways off!

Back when I was a younger player , the celebrity players at that time did not even have to move , they could fap off most attacks by standing still!


EU has slowly introduced new weapons that makes ubers have to use tactics of some kind but a lot more work still needs to be done.

We do need better pk weapons that do a lot more damage , like the new guns… but the last gun was a shame it was from a uber mob and droped to a top player.

ppl use 3rd person view for pking? that is crazy! its also crazy to use 3rd person view in hunting too unless you filming yourself in a movie!
 
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Nicole said:
ppl use 3rd person view for pking? that is crazy! its also crazy to use 3rd person view in hunting too unless you filming yourself in a movie!
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is it?

In the early pe days it was not possible to hunt in 3th person cuz aiming was nearly impossible you had to use 1st person shooting.
Since you can drag the healthbar off a mob you have a choice how to hunt.
I use both methods.
Sometimes I play 3th person sometimes 1st.
I even tried to determine whith which method I do more damage or miss less.
I can't find a real difference. The advantage of 1ste person is you waste less shots when a mob is behind a ridge you dont see in 3th person.
The advantage of 3th person is you miss less shots with a bad aim or shoot 1 time too many when the mob's already dead.

I found in pvp you dont loose you target with 3th person when some jumpstyle pk is jumping like mad around you :D

imo both ways could be made workable.

To be honoust I regret MA has ever introduced the draggable healthbar for use in 3th person it makes a player lazy and the game less "real"

Although I like 3th person when I hunt with a large glass of single highland malt scottisch whisky in my hand :D
 
Rayne Jade said:
Unless CE2 creates terrain that an avatar can use as cover (protection) instead of concealment (hiding) I do not see it making any difference other than the obvious: if your machine cannot handle CE2, then your avatar will move and react worse than it does now.

Skills may affect the probability of a certain outcome in EU but CE2 on its' own will not. Exept maybe increase the probability of lagging or a crash to desktop on lesser machines.
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K.M.Stargazer said:
...* Well I think some of the new features will provide for terrain cover. Thicker vegetation, rocks, and other terrain features to hide behind and use for tactical combat. Hopefully all of our computers will be able to keep up! MA, from what I understand, is going to 'ramp-up' to it, and not go full-on with the engine right off the bat, to give a balance, and allow for people with aging computers to still be able to participate.
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Not flaming you... not at all. But perhaps you misunderstood. I apologize if I am incorrect.

COVER - protection from injury. Hiding behind a tree to benefit from the tree absorbing damage instead of you.

CONCEALMENT - protection from being seen. Hiding behind a tree to prevent something from seeing you, and therefore aiming at you.

As it is now, we all know we can shoot through trees and sometimes rocks to hit targets. In most cases, the hitbox still appears even though you cannot actually "see" the target. That is what I am getting at. These items are transparent when it comes to targeting. Other than the limited ability to obstruct the view they might as well not even be there. In most parts of Amethera the only benefit I see is this: If your machine is faster than mine, then your machine can process the graphics faster and therefore you can most likely shoot first. The slower machine will try equally hard to draw in all the graphics while at the same time respond to your commands to aim and fire. This is not tactical. This is processing. Terrain is already an effective cover, since we cannot shoot through the ground (although this does not stop mobs from doing so).

Anyway, that is what I would like to see. I think it is rediculous that we can pass through tree and rocks. More so that we can shoot through them.
 
I have played many an FPS over the years and I still do. What drew me to PE and is one of the factors that keeps me around is the First Person Perspective aspect of it.

I don't consider myself a great PKer in EU but I have had some awesome fights in that actually involved using terrain as shield and it took some skill to aim while being fired upon since we were both sniping in the mountains. This last LG I faired better than I thought I would and I don't have major PK equipment, weapons, or armor.

While I do hope that PK does evolve to a better system once CE2 is implemented I start to think about what EU is all about. EU is a skill based system. You gain RL skills and ingame skills as you improve your avatar. Those who have worked hard or spent oodles of money to improve their avatar should have tangible benefits compared to a really good FPS player who just started and wields a deadly Opalo. Otherwise there would be no point to progression in EU and really RPGs are about progression.

I have often wondered if some of the best Pkers in EU would fair as well in an FPS with an even playing field but those types of FPS are a different style of game. Think of it this way a FPS developer can sink all R&D into the FPS aspect and is not so concerned about rewarding progression in the game(although I see some FPS reward unlocks for great play). EU is a RCEMMORPG with FPS elements which is constantly evolving and it gives tangible benefits to those who progress. Unfortunately these days, to hit the top echelon of PKers it will cost a great deal but MA has levelled it up a little with some of these (L) items.

CE2 may very well add many more FPS elements to EU but I still think EU will always benefit those who progress in the system than someone with great RL PK skills and little time in EU. If EU was a MMOFPS then I would expect a totally different game.
 
K.M.Stargazer said:
* Yeah, like I said before... many (especially highly skilled players) wouldn't like the idea.
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pls, leave the ubers out of this very discussion. this has nothing to do with 'defending privileges'. i wouldn't like the idea, and i'm far from high skilled..



K.M.Stargazer said:
* PlanetSide has been out for a few years now. I never played it, but it seemed interesting. Basically, it sounded like it boiled down to a large scale, never-ending, tug-of-war FPS. Well... I'm pretty sure it's FPS. Maybe someone who's played it can tell us.
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planetside was a fail. the fact that 400 ppl could participate in one battle seemed to be great at first, but many calculations had to be done on the client. this lead to many hacks and everybody was cheating. the attempt to prevent cheating screwed the game even more (i heard).
also, 400 ppl is nice, but EU is a sandbox-game, means it could happen that 1000 or more participants want to battle at once!!!
notice that clientside-calculations are a big no-no in a seriuos RCE-game like EU. we will have to wait some years til networking/server is ready to handle 'latency-free real time physics based combat with 1000s of players all calculated on server'..


K.M.Stargazer said:
I mainly just put this out there, because CryEngine2 is nice, but seems like overkill for an RPG-only setting... or maybe not.

Thanks for everyone's input...
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ofc, the cryEngine2 is a massive overkill for EU. CE2 is a game-engine, whilst EU will only make use of its graphic-engine features for the client. note that CE2 is meant to run on a single machine, and, afaik, never was intended to serve as a MMO-backend.
it's a pity to spend that money on a top-notch engine when you know you will not even use half of it's features.

to anyone who still wonders why EU choose the CE2, and how many of its features will be used, here is a little hint:
it is not about tech-stuff at all. it's about marketing. having the right brand-names on ones webpage does bring clients/players, even if you can't make any use of the technology.
i know that one for sure, it's the same in my business..

trux
 
well imo in order to port some of those fps skills over, theres not a huge amount that needs to be done... maybe a few more movement controls, duck, lie down etc... it would be nice if things like "jump" actualy made u jump :p etc

but beyond that i dont see what they could do.

the terrain thing is a dream. theres no way MA is gunna go over 2 continents and 2 space stations to remodel the terrain... i just cant see that ever happening... can u imagine how many place ppl would get stuck if suddenly all vegitation was solid

what i would love to see is multiple hitboxes on a avatar... so if u shoot them in the arm u;d get diff dmg and reaction to shooting someone in the head (for example)

but imo in order to pk at a high lvl u need a) decent pk gun, and b) decent pk armor and c) a skilled avatar ... without those it doesnt really matter if u can lie, crouch, sit, etc etc, as ur toast anyway.
pk'ing is a elitist activity in EU an i doubt that will change much in the future.
 
NightwolfAA2k5 said:
The RPG elements in this farce are laughable...

- Nightwolf
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if you refer to 'roleplaying'.. yes, roleplaying in a computergame is not easy..

the term RPG means more than roleplaying though. RPGs are game-systems based on stats and numbers, opposed to other games that are based on player-reaction, strategy or strengh..
so, EU is clearly a RPG.. imo..
 
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Interestingly, long ago, there was a time when there was one little game element that wasn't heavily dependent on skills or gear...boxing in the ring.

Although health points *did* play a factor, it wasn't nearly as important as your abilities as a gamer to predict where your target would be. If you ever played old multiplayer deathmatch games like Quakeworld/Quake 2 on 33.6 or 56K modems against players with high speed internet, you had a HUGE advantage in the ring over other players who didn't, as you were used to leading your target a certain amount or you'd never hit them. Since they (the cable/DSL players) had much less lag than you did on dialup, you had to shoot where you guessed they actually were, not where they appeared to be on your screen.

This was fantastic, because it was the player's actual abilities as a gamer, and not skills, that heavily influenced the outcome of the battle. If you always aimed your punches a little ahead of wherever your opponent was moving, you hit a lot more often than if you just aimed exactly at them. If you could do that while sidestepping and running around (to make yourself harder for them to guess where YOU were going), you could absolutely ruin much higher-skilled opponents...to their great dismay, in many cases. :laugh:

I'd only played the game a couple months, hardly ever spending time in the boxing ring to boot, before having some run-ins with certain black trench-coat-wearing avatars and was challenged to boxing matches by 5 of their members. One of them beat me but it was a close one; I found out he had practically double my health points. Another one gave me a good fight but I narrowly triumphed. The first three, however, were destroyed and I still had almost half of my health remaining. I "handed out the Hortons", you could say. My previous multiplayer deathmatch-on-dialup real-life skills really gave me an edge, and it was all completely fair.

Subsequent complaints to MA changed all that (I wonder why? Haha!). Now with boxing, as it is with hunting, real-life gaming skills & dexterity & reaction times, etc. have much less of an impact on the outcome.

Ahh those were the days...heh! :laugh:
 
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