Event: Merp Slughter = quite failure, but live and learn by reading this topic, especially you event newbies.

[Pave]

Today about one hour ago there was a "Newbie" Merp Slaughter-event, promoted by Rickey Darkwizard Cooke. The winning conditions were ""votes", unfortunately no other specific explantion were written (and we certainly regret this fact later).



Only four registered participants arrived: Me (Panthar), Blubard, Nelly and Yonder. Very nice fellows, if you ask me. The Promoter or his "MiniMe" never arrived to area.




After chatting for a while, the event started. We all four went separated ways. We chat each other about the loot and such. And often wondered how the voting is going to decide the winner in this event. Maybe the promoter will decide the winner, we didn't know (at this point we still understood the promoter = organizer, which is partially true).

The hour ran fast and started to return back to the land marker. However before we had a chance to meet each other, the time ran out.



To our shock, we got a message that the promoter had won. There was no second or third place mentioned. Angry and frustated as we all were, since the promoter basically ran away with free PEDs and took back his prizes, we have now learned several things:

1. Don't participate in hunting event where the winner is decided by votes, because that rule is there certainly by a huge mistake.



2. Always give free votes as soon as the event starts to other participants, because you need to see the person in question you want give the votes to (according to my knowledge you can't give votes after the event). Do the voting as soon as possible until you go separated ways, because you need to see the person in question to give the vote (like in the cases of adding new contacts/friends or starting a private trade). Besides free votes are always welcome.



(3. Avoid accidentally giving a good rate for a event that is totally messed up like this one was.)

Fortunately today was a amazing day for skilling (got about ten new Prof. ranks). But I certainly hope we all have learned our lessons and hopefully the promoter won't make this same foolish mistake as he did this time.

Fortunately there's going a real/true hunting event next week, which I'll be joining in. Hopefully where will lots other people to hunt with to get a good competion (and ward of random Trilomites, Equuses, Snarksnots and Hiryyses).

I wish best of luck for all the fellow "real" participants and I hope we'll meet again someday.

 

[Anselme25]

Sorry for you, Nel has told me all.
I have written a support case to helo you guys:

Hello,

I have just talked to a socmember of mine and have been told that during the merp hunting event today(saturday 09 october) from ingame time 12:00 to 13:00 a possible scam may have been going on which I expect to be solved by you.
It seems that no rules were set for the event, except that you had to have less than 100hp. After the event finised, the four participants who were actively hunting were not given any of the prizes. Instead, they were all given to the organizer, "Rickey DakWizard Cooke". How this happened I do not know, but during the event the socmember told me that they "apparently had to vote" to get a prize. I'm sure you know how the event system works better than me. However, the event description read: "Hunt merps and try to win a car"(three cars were the prizes).
The fact that an avatar called "little Rikey Darkwizard Cooke" (very similar to the organizers name) was a participant in that event further raised my suspicions as it sounded like the organizer may have used this avatar to "vote".

All the beginners who participated hoping for a prize are deeply disappointed(having paid for the event ticked AND tax on the LA for nothing). PLEASE SOLVE THIS ISSUE ASAP. I expect you to give the prizes to the participants! I have spent long enough looking for the organizer to talk to him but I think it's his own fault if he screws up this much(whether on purpose or not, I hope your logs will show) and doesn't make himself found anywhere in the game!

Sincerely,
Anselme
Summary: event scam


Oct 9, 2010 1:35 PM GMT Routed
to Queue System Thank you for contacting us. We will look into your case as soon as possible. The targeted response time for support requests is within 48 hours. However, during times of high load it may take a little longer.

 

[Nel]

Hello everyone!

this is my first message here.

I wish that this message be placed in a more joyful. T_T

I went to the thread but I see that paves has done so I have nothing further to add on the facts. I play for 3 weeks and this was my first event so I am very disappointed with the outcome.

I'd be more careful next time, I hope it will not happen again if this is indeed a "scam"!

Finally, I just want to say a word about those who participate with me and were all very nice. I also want to say that I find really great community of Entropia.

Thank you to all those who try to help us

 

[ranpha]

1. nvm this there was a fee
2. the vote thing is what kept ppl away. vote winnings are always rigged everybody knows that
3. you only lost your amme but you got loot + skills in return so no biggie there
4. you agreed to the set rules
5. learn and next time dont join it next time



as for naming the promoter maybe this was his first and he made a mistake. if it is a scam like ppl like to claim then this thread is on the border lines of the scam (always a grey area here) I suggest removing the name or dont name it a scam but a " promoter can you explain hread"

for me it more looks of somebody testing an event system and forgot the vote option and then won because nobody voted

 

[jaywalker]

2. the vote thing is what kept ppl away. vote winnings are always rigged everybody knows that

Eveybody but noobs, perhaps. this event was targetted at noobs

as for naming the promoter maybe this was his first and he made a mistake. if it is a scam like ppl like to claim then this thread is on the border lines of the scam (always a grey area here) I suggest removing the name or dont name it a scam but a " promoter can you explain hread"

.

I read the title and the OP very carefully, and this thread, to me, looks to be exactly what you suggest here. Pave tried to find the promoter in game, failed, then made this thread. At no point does he call the promoter a scammer; he just relates the facts.

As for removing the name, that would make it rather difficult for the promoter in question to be contacted and to respond, wouldn't it? I know that people involved are still hoping that the promoter will hear of this thread and post an explanation

for me it more looks of somebody testing an event system and forgot the vote option and then won because nobody voted

I wondered the same, but given the presence of the promoter's little brother (or 2nd ava? very clearly related in any case) this really does look rather more suspicious

5. learn and next time dont join it next time

That is the message. Hopefully this thread will help other noobs avoid making the same mistake.

jay

 

[ranpha]

.

I read the title and the OP very carefully, and this thread, to me, looks to be exactly what you suggest here. Pave tried to find the promoter in game, failed, then made this thread. At no point does he call the promoter a scammer; he just relates the facts.

Not in the first post indeed but second and third post do call it a scam.

As for removing the name, that would make it rather difficult for the promoter in question to be contacted and to respond, wouldn't it? I know that people involved are still hoping that the promoter will hear of this thread and post an explanation

As i said it is a borderline. It could be help promoter explain but it can turn into scan accusation. it is a thin line to walk on. As for contacting was he in a soc , PM, PCF name , pm him etc.

I wondered the same, but given the presence of the promoter's little brother (or 2nd ava? very clearly related in an case) this really does look rather more suspicious

havent looked so far I am pn crappy UMTS connection ;-) i limit my downloading hehe but it is in the text yes. Still the "2nd avatar"could just think hell i vote for that nice guy you never know.

That is the message. Hopefully this thread will help other noobs avaid making the same mistake.

for 7 ped lose and the promoter winning 28 ped it dont think this is anything. He paid atleast 80 ped for the event so he is still at the lost. if it was a scam then heheh it backfired big

But learn and keep moving on. You wont be the first to enter an event and seeing it being "rigged"

 

[GradenFoss]

Just observing...

There has been a warning thread in this forum about the Win Rule default bug.

And there has been a specific warning post in this forum concerning this Merp event.

AfaIk, the promoter doesn’t »win« the event, however, if no one participates in the event (which for the system as it is programmed might be the case, when nobody votes in a Most Vote contest), the prizes are returned to him/her. I think, I remember an official MA statement in this matter, but I haven’t dug it up yet.

Whoever set up the event had to pay some good PEDs for that (check Oleg’s Guide). He/she had certainly a loss.

Having said the above, all circumstances are definitely unfortunate. Sry for your disappointment there.

 

[loren]

Im not sure what has happend here but as only 4 of your turned up and if it was ment to be a scam has failed as he would have paid to create the event, not sure how much it is to create a hunting event say 15ped plus?

This could have been a mistake as once events are created you cant edit the settings as far as i know?

Anyway sorry this happend to you guys

What was first prize?

 

[Anselme25]

Not in the first post indeed but second and third post do call it a scam.



As i said it is a borderline. It could be help promoter explain but it can turn into scan accusation. it is a thin line to walk on. As for contacting was he in a soc , PM, PCF name , pm him etc.


havent looked so far I am pn crappy UMTS connection ;-) i limit my downloading hehe but it is in the text yes. Still the "2nd avatar"could just think hell i vote for that nice guy you never know.


for 7 ped lose and the promoter winning 28 ped it dont think this is anything. He paid atleast 80 ped for the event so he is still at the lost. if it was a scam then heheh it backfired big

But learn and keep moving on. You wont be the first to enter an event and seeing it being "rigged"

This is what I said:

I expect you to give the prizes to the participants! I have spent long enough looking for the organizer to talk to him but I think it's his own fault if he screws up this much(whether on purpose or not, I hope your logs will show

 

[Anselme25]

Anyway the thing I'mn angry about is that an organizer can apparently WIN his own event??? And also any 2nd avatar or family member can vote freely? This vote system doesn't work, and it never will( I can think of many ways to exploit it). It should be removed!

 

[GradenFoss]

Anyway the thing I'mn angry about is that an organizer can apparently WIN his own event???

As I explained above:

AfaIk, the promoter doesn’t »win« the event, however, if no one participates in the event (which for the system as it is programmed might be the case, when nobody votes in a Most Vote contest), the prizes are returned to him/her.

If the promoter hat actually WON the event, he’d had received only one of the three prizes. As all three prizes have gone back, that was not winning but prizes being returned by the system.

EDIT: A promoter takes part in his/her events. When you’re setting up an event, you’re automatically listed as the first participant. You e.g. can have a hunting event and participate and thus winning 1st, 2nd, or 3rd prize. That’s, how it’s set up by the system, and why not in principle. In addition, if the promoter wasn’t a participant, he/she couldn’t enter the event area during the event and also couln’t use the Event Chat.

 

[jaywalker]

+ rep to Graden Foss for posting those informative links.
I suggest that everybody read that thread.

It would seem that this organiser could well have made the same innocent mistake that Chevrons made, and that the fault lies mostly with the event system

However, whilst Chevrons did the noble thing and stood around for an hour apologising to participants and giving them their PED back, this promoter just enlisted the "help" of "LittleRicky" to ensure that he got his prizes back, but otherwise kept mum, and did not return anybody's entrance fee, which was really shabby IMO

jay

Just observing...

There has been a warning thread in this forum about the Win Rule default bug.

And there has been a specific warning post in this forum concerning this Merp event.

AfaIk, the promoter doesn’t »win« the event, however, if no one participates in the event (which for the system as it is programmed might be the case, when nobody votes in a Most Vote contest), the prizes are returned to him/her. I think, I remember an official MA statement in this matter, but I haven’t dug it up yet.

Whoever set up the event had to pay some good PEDs for that (check Oleg’s Guide). He/she had certainly a loss.

Having said the above, all circumstances are definitely unfortunate. Sry for your disappointment there.

 

[jaywalker]

As I explained above:



If the promoter hat actually WON the event, he’d had received only one of the three prizes. As all three prizes have gone back, that was not winning but prizes being returned by the system.

EDIT: A promoter takes part in his/her events. When you’re setting up an event, you’re automatically listed as the first participant. You e.g. can have a hunting event and participate and thus winning 1st, 2nd, or 3rd prize. That’s, how it’s set up by the system, and why not in principle.

Just to clarify: one of the posted screenies shows that the promoter did, indeed, win first prize!



Why not? Because this can clearly be exploited. And because it pisses nearly everybody off!

But, as the thread you linked to shows, the whole system needs an overhaul. In some cases, the way the system stands, voting for yourself might be justified as the only way of fixing a screw-up (though I'm sure that wasn't the intention of the programmers)

jay

 

[GradenFoss]

Just to clarify: one of the posted screenies shows that the promoter did, indeed, win first prize!

That is correct. My bad. 2nd and 3rd place prizes would have been returned to the promoter.

Why not? Because this can clearly be exploited. And because it pisses nearly everybody off!

But, as the thread you linked to shows, the whole system needs an overhaul. In some cases, the way the system stands, voting for yourself might be justified as the only way of fixing a screw-up (though I'm sure that wasn't the intention of the programmers)

Very agreed that the organizer needs to be fixed. It’s been demanded, since the system is back. I just wanted to point out that one should in principle be able to participate in one’s own events. E.g. throw a hunting party and shoot with your friends...

And tnx for +rep

 

[shoti]

nice info indeed, thx for sharing. I had no idea such things can be made.

 

[chevrons]

My thanks to Gradenfoss and Jaywalker for highlighting my previous warnings. I happened to see this Event last week, and resurrected my old thread.

It was one of the arguments I put to MA 6 months ago, that Participants would be very annoyed to be affected by this, and you all have my sympathy.

However, I do believe that it is the right of the Promoter to at least retrieve the Prizes when MA's system fails to allow for a simple oversight when setting up an Event, as the number of participants is obviously going to be very low.

It is suspicious that the Promoter's second avatar was present, and it is regrettable that he did not refund the entry prices, but on balance I think it was without intention to scam anyone. As has been said, he lost 100 Ped minus 4 tickets. I also think he should have Aborted the Event, but possibly he did not realise he could do this. (The Abort System is also pretty useless as well).

As I said in my previous thread, a Promoter cannot vote for himself, and therefore needs someone else to vote to guarantee retrieving the prizes. Moreover, if this was a scam attempt, a Promoter could only try such a scam once. I was lucky - after I refunded the tickets, the participants went away, they could have voted among themselves to get the prizes as well, if they had known the system. (If a Promoter doesn't refund the ticket prices, then I guess morally he lays himself open to this).

I have also wondered whether a Promoter who is over the Health Limit could, or should be allowed to, actually participate in an Event with a HP Limit Rule, and while I'm not going to comment on second avatars, it would actually be fairer on other participants if a Promoter used a weak avatar to compete, but still received the Event Reputation on his main avatar.

If the Promoter is reading this, you weren't the first; I vowed not to create another Event until MA amended their system; you may feel the same way.

When MA re-introduced the Event System, I was delighted, as I used to participate in quite a few. But they sabotaged their own work, both through the inflexible Event System itself, and then with the missions, meaning LA owners without mission mobs have let their LA's empty, leaving few areas except the big Atrox ones capable of being used for an Event.

 

[acesrick]

Bad Mistake.

O.K. Lets set the record straight. I am rickey darkwizard cooke. As for the event i organized this was designed to be an event for people to vote on the winner. I figured that way even the new people that didnt have alot of ammo or peds could have a chance. However if you look I was not even there. Do to un forseen circumstsnce my internet time is limited to about 20 minutes a day. and even with that the connection i now have is not good enuff to run the game. the avatar little rickey darkwizard cooke is my son who lives 1100 mile from me and we spend time togeter on the game. so yeah my son joined the event. I had no intention of winning the event. As a matter of fact if the ones who participated had voted they would have won. now that being said It was my 1st event that i organized. i know thats no exuse for the event being a flop but if i had it to do over i would have put a most loot wins to the rules. the rule were merly under 100hp. that meant no weapons restrictions or anything. how can this be called a scam when i lost close to 100ped trying to give people a fun event? I will check back and respond as i can. if i read this forum correctly there were 4 people that showed up, correct? those 4 people can pm me and when i can get back in game i will meet you and return to 7ped entry fee. I am soory for the confusion but really people that is as fair as i can be. As for a support case saying me and little rickey were the same, all they need to do is look at the ip addresses and see that we are 1100 miles apart.

 

[Bones]

TaaaDaaaaaaa!!!!!



Bones

 

[chevrons]

Rickey - one question. Why didn't your son turn up? He could have explained your absence, explained the rules to the others, even won a prize himself.

Your idea of doing an Event for low players in that Merp area was a good one. It is full of small Merp, and provided a player has Segna on their TP list, easy to get to. I've been there recently, doing the 1k Mission.

But as you now see, Most Votes may sound like Fun, but it is pointless and no-one will enter. (It would be cheaper to stand around at Swamp Camp telling jokes to win a Prize).

Not least, it is a potential scam because a Promoter has 10 votes, and can therefore more or less choose alone who gets the Prizes.

To the other Participants - yes, the Voting System needs amending too, you have to vote before the Event ends. This is particularly silly because most Promoters give votes to the three winners, and they aren't certain until the event ends.

Btw, Oleg's Event System Guide explains everything about Events, including the Voting System.
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?173129-Event-System-Guide&highlight=event+guide

[I'm assuming the Votes counted for Most Votes are the Reputation points given, and that there is not a seperate system]

 

[Pave]

As the tittle of this thread implies, this is thread is mainly just to tell people to read the event winning condition more carefully. Admitted, I was a little surprised about the desicion to use "most Votes"-winning condition instead of single biggest loot or most loot collected-rule. But we kinda though that there would be a panel or something similiar that would do the voting for us. But then we realized we would had have to vote each other participants (but we ran out time as soon as we realized this).

I'm not personally regretting losing the small sum of PEDs I bought the tickets with (after all, the day was amazing for skilling). The thing is, that this is was my very first "automated"-event (I did participate in EU-Boxing Championship 2010 as a Flyweight). So I had some difficulties to even register into the event (mainly because I didn't first realize that I have to register at the Land Marker).
I never assumed the scam, even though it was a little odd to see another participant with similiar name. As I said on the first post:

The (Voting)rule is there certainly by a huge mistake.

After all, this was a hunting event. And at least not yet, we can't do spectacular kills in this game (except maybe blowing up +20 Merps with one grenade and not wearing a armor at the moment, but that's another story by better veterans than me).

However, thanks to this thread of mine I started, I personally have learned even more about the event system. Which may sound odd to most players, since I've been around in EU from 2006 (back then this simulator was called Project Entropia).

Thank you for everyone posting here so far. I have grown much more wiser during past these two days.