First experiences of a total crafting noob

[KP708]

So yesterday, I decided to experiment with some crafting, just to see what it's like

Armed with Alice's guide, I walked confidently up to the technician and...

1. Buying the bp and bp book

This is supposed to be the easy bit. Well buying a bp is easy - just like buying from the TT, except I clicked the technician instead of the TT. But which book? A detailed search of ef and several other sites revealed no lists of which book is required for which bp. Here's what I discovered:

• each bp is under a section in the technician's menu, and you need a book from under the same section. So a bp from the equipment list needs a book from the equipment list. Beware - the book sections and bp sections are listed in different orders (Duh..why?)
• there are more than one book in some sections. Level 1 bps are not always in book 1. For example Galaxy SI ion conductors go in equipment book 2
• an easy way to find which book you need - buy book 1, open your inventory, click the bottom section (documents), drag your bp onto the book. If the book turns red, it's the wrong book, so go back to the technician, sell the book back and buy a different one - keep trying until you find the right book. Key here is that an empty book can be sold back for the same price as a new book, so it costs nothing to try every book. Maybe there's a well-known and better solution to this, but searching ef did not reveal it.

2. Getting the raw materials

Well this bit was easy - some friends had some of the materials I needed, and the rest was in storage. Or so I thought. But of course, crafting needs refined materials and I had raw ore. Hmm...time to buy a refiner. Well they can't be too hard to use surely. Wrong.

Ok, it's easy once you know, but again, information on how to actually use a refiner seemed a bit scarce. How I did it was drag the refiner to my ava, like equipping a weapon, then used the hotkey I have set up for 'use item'. This opened the refiner window. What you would do if you didn't have the hotkey set up I don't know. I guess if you don't know how to use a refiner, you shouldn't be considering crafting.

And now another useful point I discovered...the refiner decays 1 unit of decay per use. But this doesn't mean per unit of material. Apparently different refiners have different capacities, but the TT ones are not tiny, so put in as much unrefined material as you have before clicking the refine button, to minimise your decay.

I was impatient to get crafting, so I certainly didn't fill the refiner to capacity. Again, no information seemed to be available on the max capacity of each type of refiner. Another little project, unless someone knows where this already is.

3. Using a crafting machine

So here we go. Bp in book...check. Plenty of raw materials...check. Crafting machine...oooh plenty of choice here, let's pick a matching one for the hell of it, but we all know it makes no difference which type of machine you use...check. HOF switch enabled...chec....no probably not on my first run.

Click the machine, up pops the window, double click the book and then the bp. Drag in the correct amount of materials for 1 click, click the button, and wheee out pops just what the bp says. Nice

So what did I discover here

• I mention it even though it's obvious - I was not crafting an (L) item, and the finished product had no condition % - ie it's always worth full TT, so I left the quality slider on quantity to maximise my chance of success
• it's perfectly safe to drag tons of raw material into the crafting window. Each click just uses enough for one crafting operation, and the rest stays safely in the machine for the next click
• the results, which pop up in a loot window, mostly go back into your inventory, but if you get back some of the raw materials used by your bp, they go automatically into the crafting machine
• you can drag raw materials back out of the crafting machine and into your inventory at any time
• if you open up your skills window (press K) to look at the your skill gains, while the crafting window is open, your inventory disappears, and you can't get it back, not even with I key. You have to exit the crafting window, and then click on the machine again to carry on crafting

4. Selling your end-products

Hmmm...well this is the not-so-good part. It wasn't a total loss. I actually got quite a few end-products back, and several times, it made 2 from 1 click. Taking market value into account, I had a 42% return. I also increased the bp quality and got a few skill gains. I would not say the skill gains fill the screen with green like they do with first hunting or sweating. But then 1 click on a gun is much faster than 1 click on a crafting machine. Good thing really or you'd spend peds like they were going out of fashion.

Anyway, my rather worthless Galaxy SI ion conductors will be going into the TT, but I did get a nice pile of metal residue, which I was surprised to see, unlike animal oil residue, is not TT food. Almost TT'd it, but just caught myself in time.

My real chance of success according to Etopia's well-known graphic, was about 28%. I actually got 25% successful crafts, although some did give more than 1 product. 35% gave partial success (materials back). 40% were total failures.

All in all, it was a fun start, and i was actually surprised any of my crafting attempts worked, since I have no crafting skill at all. But although the process itself was very easy, there were some key things I had to learn along the way.

Ofc crafting's not really addicitive...now to go and buy some more materials for another run. Hang on wasn't I supposed to be skilling rifle.

 

[Alice]

Well this bit was easy - some friends had some of the materials I needed, and the rest was in storage. Or so I thought. But of course, crafting needs refined materials and I had raw ore. Hmm...time to buy a refiner. Well they can't be too hard to use surely. Wrong.

Ok, it's easy once you know, but again, information on how to actually use a refiner seemed a bit scarce. How I did it was drag the refiner to my ava, like equipping a weapon, then used the hotkey I have set up for 'use item'. This opened the refiner window. What you would do if you didn't have the hotkey set up I don't know. I guess if you don't know how to use a refiner, you shouldn't be considering crafting.

well, the dragging to your ava from inventory to the body in the inv works too
then you can use a "leftclick"
(aim the closest technician/auctioneer/random victim and try to refine him/her by shooting)
the window opens then too

and afaik it decays based on the amount

i have a 104 refiner for enmatter, and it is a difference if i refine 1k sweat or 10k in one go
at least the last time i checked

but if that was a hint about
-adding what bp belongs to what book to the guide
i won't, would just be a rather big list and not many would read it
and for a ped you try it usually

-adding "how to use a refiner"
why not ^^, but i always thought its kinda self explaining
but wont be too hard to do i guess
gotta do some sure cross testing about the decay i guess :/
sounds like back to mining, sigh


but anyway, nice experience i bet

 

[Cernd]

Nice story! Thanx for sharing your experience, I'm sure it will be useful to crafting noobs, including myself

 

[KP708]

Hehe Alice you replied before I even got a chance to finish my suggestion post in your guide thread. You're just too quick these days

(aim the closest technician/auctioneer/random victim and try to refine him/her by shooting)

EU is so logical.

and afaik it decays based on the amount

Well I was going on what I had been told by some experienced miners, that it was decay per click not per quantity, but of course that might be wrong nevertheless. Definitely worth testing. If I discover anything I'll post.

but if that was a hint about
-adding what bp belongs to what book to the guide
i won't, would just be a rather big list and not many would read it
and for a ped you try it usually

No actually - I agree would be a rather long list, and I think this is something better put in pe-wiki anyway.

Of course it is easy to try each book, but I didn't realise you could sell books back to the technician until I experimented. That I think is worth putting in the guide.

-adding "how to use a refiner"
why not ^^,

Well you know, I wouldn't want you to get bored with nothing to do Alice

sounds like back to mining, sigh

That's next on my list of fun new things to try Let me know if you find any blaus

but anyway, nice experience i bet

It was actually - I wasn't sure what to expect, but discovering that you can have quite a lot of success, even as a total noob crafter, is good.

 

[Alice]

Hehe Alice you replied before I even got a chance to finish my suggestion post in your guide thread. You're just too quick these days

Well I was going on what I had been told by some experienced miners, that it was decay per click not per quantity, but of course that might be wrong nevertheless. Definitely worth testing. If I discover anything I'll post.

Well you know, I wouldn't want you to get bored with nothing to do Alice

That's next on my list of fun new things to try Let me know if you find any blaus

It was actually - I wasn't sure what to expect, but discovering that you can have quite a lot of success, even as a total noob crafter, is good.

ah, i answered the suggestions there too now
wasnt that slow then as i expected


i gotta ask my miners then too ^.-
but from my sweat refining experience it seems that the amount matters
maybe its a mix actually
say, for every 10 you pay 1 decay unit, for 20 2 units....


i planned to add something about beacon missions to the guide too, writing story 3, and since i got a weird suggestion about adding a donate to paypal button for my site, i think about that too (still don't know if i should do that ^^)
so, I'm quite covered with projects atm


i mine enmatter, doubt i find blaus


you can also lose a lot
currently i have a crafting disciple, and he seems to do good too

 

[KP708]

i gotta ask my miners then too ^.-
but from my sweat refining experience it seems that the amount matters
maybe its a mix actually
say, for every 10 you pay 1 decay unit, for 20 2 units....

hmmmm or maybe it is per quantity, but there is a minimum, a bit like armour, so you always get 1 unit of decay even for refining 1 unit, but at higher levels it is per quantity. Testing clearly required here....

i planned to add something about beacon missions to the guide too, writing story 3, and since i got a weird suggestion about adding a donate to paypal button for my site, i think about that too (still don't know if i should do that ^^)
so, I'm quite covered with projects atm

Beacon missions - good idea
Story 3 - can't wait, although like I said, I want to see more of Bruce's story
Paypal - interesting idea, could be a good way to earn from your guide/mentoring - would this be from clicking on the TT graphic? I think you can use Amazon wish lists anonymously as well. Or maybe accept donations by ukash. Ofc you don't want it to look like a begging site...

i mine enmatter, doubt i find blaus

oh well

 

[Igorl]

i gotta ask my miners then too ^.-
but from my sweat refining experience it seems that the amount matters
maybe its a mix actually
say, for every 10 you pay 1 decay unit, for 20 2 units....

Yup,

It is based on amount refined. But not TT value.

It costs e.g. ~28 pec to refine 1k oil from 2k crude oil... TT = 20 ped
And it costs ~28 pec to refine 1k dunkel plastics from 2k dunkel particle TT=1.1k ped

It is nice to have 104 refiner since it is 0.003 pec cheaper than TT refiner per unit refined. This counts basically for enmaters since many are TT valued 1 pec. Ores are different. Apart from lyst and belk - you dont get so many and it takes 3 pcs to compose an ingot.

I.

 

[Nell]

Good information which I will need when I eventually start crafting.

Thank you and +rep from me

 

[Alice]

Yup,

It is based on amount refined. But not TT value.

It costs e.g. ~28 pec to refine 1k oil from 2k crude oil... TT = 20 ped
And it costs ~28 pec to refine 1k dunkel plastics from 2k dunkel particle TT=1.1k ped

It is nice to have 104 refiner since it is 0.003 pec cheaper than TT refiner per unit refined. This counts basically for enmaters since many are TT valued 1 pec. Ores are different. Apart from lyst and belk - you dont get so many and it takes 3 pcs to compose an ingot.

I.

ya, just found that out too

i refined 1k ME with the 104 and 100 (from tt) and the decay differed
and 100 ME
and each repair bill differed

 

[KP708]

According to pe-wiki, decays should be:

104: 0.023 pec per something
100: 0.031 pec per something

So did you find your ME refining costs were:

104: 1000ME = 23pec, 100ME = 2.3pec
100: 1000ME = 31pec, 100ME = 3.1pec

Or something different? I'm just wondering if this is deacy per unit of refined stuff and whether there's a minimum decay

 

[Daikiba Old]

[*]the results, which pop up in a loot window, mostly go back into your inventory, but if you get back some of the raw materials used by your bp, they go automatically into the crafting machine

Except if you have another stack of the raw materials in the inventory already, it will go back to the stack in your inventory instead (knowing how many excess materials u got back should also be counted when calculating gains/losses).

 

[KP708]

Except if you have another stack of the raw materials in the inventory already, it will go back to the stack in your inventory instead (knowing how many excess materials u got back should also be counted when calculating gains/losses).

Hmmm...well that wasn't what I saw. I had a couple of stacks of muscle oil in the inventory, but not all the muscle oil returned from successes and partial successes went back to inventory...some went back to the crafting window. I'll check this evening whether it is only on successes or only on partial successes, but it certainly didn't all go back to inv.

I guess maybe it could be another one of those randomly varying things

 

[Daikiba Old]

ok, maybe its only for ore/enmatter.

According to pe-wiki, decays should be:

104: 0.023 pec per something
100: 0.031 pec per something

So did you find your ME refining costs were:

104: 1000ME = 23pec, 100ME = 2.3pec
100: 1000ME = 31pec, 100ME = 3.1pec

Or something different? I'm just wondering if this is deacy per unit of refined stuff and whether there's a minimum decay

1000 ME = 23 pec decay with a 104 refiner
There is NO minimum decay (or if there is, it's less than 1 pec)

 

[Alice]

According to pe-wiki, decays should be:

104: 0.023 pec per something
100: 0.031 pec per something

So did you find your ME refining costs were:

104: 1000ME = 23pec, 100ME = 2.3pec
100: 1000ME = 31pec, 100ME = 3.1pec

Or something different? I'm just wondering if this is deacy per unit of refined stuff and whether there's a minimum decay

alright, i was a bit stupid and forgot to note the start decay of 104 when i started (my 2 nerve wrecking cousins where here and arguing who should play at my other PC, since i blocked one with "important research" )
or in short
the 18 is guessed ^^, rest should be right
i didn't test that good with sweat method (kinda in a hurry to take the pics for the guide)
bout should be about that

.............104.........100
1k stack 18...........31
100 stack 2.............3

 

[Daikiba Old]

alice, it is 23 pec per 1000 with a 104 (i just tested it)
And if you refine 100 units, it is still 23 pec/1000 - but since 1 pec is the lowest unit, u will see it as if it decayed 2 pec (i believe there is an internal counter in the system that counts values of less than 1 pec...so if u refine 100 units x 100 times, some of the times will have 3 pec decay instead of 2.

As for the "no minimum decay" i tested that also (refined 2 oil - no decay). Sometimes u might get 1 pec decay for one unit, but thats because of the above-mentioned reason

 

[Alice]

alice, it is 23 pec per 1000 with a 104 (i just tested it)
And if you refine 100 units, it is still 23 pec/1000 - but since 1 pec is the lowest unit, u will see it as if it decayed 2 pec (i believe there is an internal counter in the system that counts units of less than 1 pec...so if u refine 100 units x 100 times, some of the times will have 3 pec decay instead of 2.

As for the "no minimum decay" i tested that also (refined 2 oil - no decay). Sometimes u might get 1 pec decay for one unit, but thats because of the above-mentioned reason

there is a counter

its kinda easy to see that even
you need 1k sweat, which is worth 1 pec
so, 1 sweat 0.001 pec

in this case i was too lazy actually, since the question was if it decays more for 1k than for 100, and also if different finders have different decay

i didnt want it too accurate

and i know that the 18 is wrong, as i said, i was distracted and had to guess it

anyway, thx for the more accurate numbers

 

[Napolleon]

basic filters is good for skilling up on too

 

[Rowdoc]

but I did get a nice pile of metal residue, which I was surprised to see, unlike animal oil residue, is not TT food.

Well done , nice story
But you can't use animal oil residue to boost crafted item's TTvalue still?

 

[timmmers]

Well done , nice story
But you can't use animal oil residue to boost crafted item's TTvalue still?

You can if animal oils are an ingredient of the BP yeah.
I seem to remember a sticky on this very subject in here somewhere. Try crafting section maybe .

t

 

[KP708]

You can if animal oils are an ingredient of the BP yeah.
I seem to remember a sticky on this very subject in here somewhere. Try crafting section maybe .

t

I think this is the thread you were thinking of

And on the refiner decay question, I did a test using the sweat valuation method yesterday evening, and it is exactly as the figures from Alice/Daikiba Old & co indicated above. ie decay in pe-wiki is decay for one unit of refined product. Of course you all knew that... still, there's nothing like reinventing the wheel

 

[KP708]

But you can't use animal oil residue to boost crafted item's TTvalue still?

Not for the conductors I was making...they always come out at full TT, and don't appear to have a condition level, unlike say a crafted weapon.

I think only items which can be used up have variable TT (like weapons / faps etc) and in these cases, ofc using residue to boost TT value is a good idea, if it's a (L) item, since you can't repair it at the repair term.

One day when I can manage to craft something more useful, all this residue will no doubt come in handy