FPC does not code...?

[Wollongong]

Hanne has said that FPC doesn't do any coding:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-Projects...&p=2610639&highlight=#post2610639

How FPC runs our release projects is therefore not relevant to this discussion.

But to the question of test environments; Of course both FPC and MindArk does have test-environments and QA. The fault is not always there.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-Projects...&p=2610667&highlight=#post2610667

Because MindArk does not have a Community Manager or a forum of their own? I mean...they seem to have plenty of troubles getting updates for Calypso... they can't possibly handle more.

Apart from that: if MA does all the coding, doesn't this basically say the whole split of the companies is a farce?
And yes, MindArk does all the coding.

Somehow, I got the picture in my mind that MA only provided the platform, and FPC is responsible for the content. How on earth can a company create online content without any coding?

If it is MA doing all the coding, how do they plan to manage the content update streams for multiple

 

[Mega]

Designing the Pitbull, inventing the missions and changing the landscape would require no coding, just using software packages to do the above.


At least that's what I think was meant - FPC design everything to do with Calypso but don't do any actual 'coding'.

 

[remontoire]

HSomehow, I got the picture in my mind that MA only provided the platform, and FPC is responsible for the content. How on earth can a company create online content without any coding?

Simply. The terrain, the mobs, the structures, the events, etc do not require any coding. Why should these involve coding?

 

[mastermesh]

How on earth can a company create online content without any coding?

yep... it's all done through software... 3d content software... maybe they do some "coding" but not real "coding" since the game engine likely allows for "scripting" and I suspect that folks like Pioneer that are involved in setting up missions are basically just using the "scripting" languages or in game scripting engine gui that MA built for them to do that sort of stuff.

If this is the case, it means that the planet partners really have a much easier way of doing things then it might seem at first... as all they really need to know how to do is push buttons on a 3d software package basically... makes me want to get better with my own 3d modelling and go work for Neverdie Studios, lol.

 

[Coachman]

Think of FPC product as a drawing you can do with AutoCad. They dont need to make a Cad program to do the drawings.

The tools they use are of not course Autocad but very similiar in some respects.

 

[Wollongong]

because SOMEWHERE, someone has to define the altitude the ground is on at a specific coordinate. Someone has to define the combat stats of hostile units.

Someone has to, somewhere, make sure things work.

 

[mastermesh]

Someone has to, somewhere, make sure things work.

The game engine is basically just a gigantic database... and each frame of the game is looking at the database in a different way... each frame is your avatar looking at it from a different angle. The stats you are talking about are in another part of the database. Just because FPC might use some tools that do basically what are SQL queries on occassion maybe, does not mean that they actually have the power to go in to the database and manually change individual cells in that database. That's where MA comes in... It really is sort of like a database really if you think about it... FPC is like the end user on that database and has some access to it. Each avatar is too. However the real admin functionality of it is where MA is. Your avatar cannot alter the terrain in the gui like FPC might be able to, but if you hold a deed you can move furniture around in your apartment...

That's similar to what FPC and all the planet partners do I think... only they are at a higher level and can do more in the game engine they your avatar can, just like the programmers can only do certain things and not others... They might not even be able to see what your avatar sees, which I suspect is part of the reason they want us to send in support tickets anytime we see a bug or something. It might just be something we see that's wrong with the database that they are not aware of and normally don't even look for.

As mentioned in the other thread, I think it's really funny that the word "coding" is also a term used in Emergency Rooms to describe when a patient is going in to cardiac arrest... MA is in charge of the "coding" so they have the power to make this whole virtual universe live or die.

 

[remontoire]

because SOMEWHERE, someone has to define the altitude the ground is on at a specific coordinate. Someone has to define the combat stats of hostile units.

Someone has to, somewhere, make sure things work.

Yes, but this is not coding.

 

[endermigne]

It might not be "coding" as in "typing, compiling, linking, executing". However, a lot of stuff is triggered by events (e.g., play an audio sample if you shoot a gun). Those events are parts of every object type (i.e., avatar, mob, vehicle, tool, machine, ...) and let the object become alive. Not all events are available to every object type (e.g., there is no need for a crafting machine to make any noise if you shoot at it). The action that a certain event fires when a certain thing happens is already coded in the game engine or MA codes it.

Now if you are creating an object, it is based on an object type. Depending on how the user-interface for the planet partners is designed, it may be a point-and-click-kind of configuration, like apply that sound sample if it is operated, the damage it does ranges between this and that many hit points, do this if a user does that, ... Obviously, that doesn't quite qualify as coding (however, some folks who do this want to feel special and call it coding ).

If the user-interface provides more functionality, a planet partner may be allowed to apply own code, structures, ...

What I wrote in another thread:

Knowing close to nothing about how it's done, I'd say that MA fools around with the code on a lower level. I could think that FPC are likely to code things in LUA or at least in a higher language than MA. I don't know if it's still valid, but before VU10 came out, Marco said that CryEngine wasn't built for games (yes, it's a universe ) like EU and a lot of things had to be added and worked around.

If you are not living on the tech-side of the world, the difference is that the lower level you code, the more and easier you can break things. On the contrary, higher level code may even run in a safe environment or sandbox. If that one fails, nothing serious happens. Compare racing a car into a tree to spilling coffee on the seat.

 

[Leona]

because SOMEWHERE, someone has to define the altitude the ground is on at a specific coordinate. Someone has to define the combat stats of hostile units.

Someone has to, somewhere, make sure things work.

Planet partners get editors for those things, maybe some missions involve some scripts, but thats about it.

 

[Dr.D.C.]

for example, i run www.entropiabay.com but i m not a coder at all...... it can works! but it can be quite expensive

 

[Hanne|SDS]

yep... it's all done through software... 3d content software... maybe they do some "coding" but not real "coding" since the game engine likely allows for "scripting" and I suspect that folks like Pioneer that are involved in setting up missions are basically just using the "scripting" languages or in game scripting engine gui that MA built for them to do that sort of stuff.

Quite correct. We do some scripting, mainly for the missions and the spawn-placements and other such stuff, but we don't do any actual coding. We don't create systems; we utilize the systems that MindArk provide us with.

 

[[FM]]

And that surely have to be the best way to do it, imagine 3-6 planet owners starting creating code for their releases ,that could really start to mess things up.

 

[Kitten]

And that surely have to be the best way to do it, imagine 3-6 planet owners starting creating code for their releases ,that could really start to mess things up.

Yeah no doubt! that would be some twisted mess to untangle

 

[Miles]

Managing Content Streams/Pionners

As the OP trailed off he asked how MA could manage all the content streams. This is what this last VU was all about.

The Dynamic Content is all of the non-MA, non-platform stuff. Everything that the planet partners create is Dynamic Content. The purpose of this massive update with "nothing" in it is just that - severing the Planet Content from the Platform Content.

I assume the ultimate goal is to have selective/flexible content downloads along with planet updates that do not impact other planets - i.e. no server downtime for Calypso when RT has a content update.

For EU to work with a lot of planets the platform must be able update each planet without interference to the others. I expect step two of this process to pretty painful as well, but this is process that is as inevitable as it is essential. As there really is nothing else like EU, it not at all surprising that there are unforeseeable issues that arise taking steps like this.

I have always embraced the beta-forever, never-ending development of EU. I choose to look at times like this as just another part of the journey, rather than oh-my-god bugs, everything sucks, why? why? why? bitch fests. Life is just more enjoyable that way.

We are all pioneers, we put up with certain hardships in exchange for getting to lead the way. Pioneers always suffer, but they also shape the places they settle for those that follow in their path.



Miles

 

[Xavier_Jr]

How on earth can a company create online content without any coding?

Because FPC (as other planet partners) is responsible of requirements and specifications, like the analysts and users in every project of IT development, while designers, DB specialists and programers (MA) are responsible to convert such specifications in software. So, Mindark sell platform; and FPC use this platform for his own storyline. Then you can have a Virtual World (with only USD 6 million ), however, you have not knowledges about programming, and only you have good dreams about how a virtual world can be beautifull and profitable.

 

[Wollongong]

Quite correct. We do some scripting, mainly for the missions and the spawn-placements and other such stuff, but we don't do any actual coding. We don't create systems; we utilize the systems that MindArk provide us with.

Same thing to me. Scripting is just a less advanced form of putting stuff into a computer...thus coding

 

[wizzszz]

Same thing to me. Scripting is just a less advanced form of putting stuff into a computer...thus coding

Scripting is not coding, not even close - rule of thumb:

If you f**k up a script, things will not work, or show unwanted behaviour, but it aint (shouldn't be) possible to crash the entire application, as all behaviour (and faulty scripting) is (should be) guarded (and stopped, if necessary, or replaced by a default action) by the underlying code.

Or in other words: Scripts run on top of code (one more abstraction layer) - and scripts do not deal with system specific stuff (i.e. like Javascript runs in your browser, no matter if it's on a Mac or Windows, without modifications).



If something doesn't work as intended, you can blame both, coders and scripters, if something goes seriously wrong, well, then the coders didn't do their homework...

 

[Wollongong]

Okay, fair enough.... different perceptions of what the word "coding" does, and does not include.

That aside... this leaves the questions:

- how "real" is the split of the company MA into MA and FPC then, if all the work is still done by the same guys

and...

- with the (supposed) growth of the number of planet partners: how will MA ever be able to handle the increased requests for content updates?

Will MA expand their programmers pool if a partner signs up? What if partners dissappear... bankruptcy, deaths, lack of prospective profits... will MA then be left with a HUGE payroll which they cannot afford?

EVEN if it is just a matter of slightly changing some parameters... how will MA decide which planet gets priority rights? How will they ensure that on peak times (Christmas, Halloween, other Holidays) every project is released on time.

Even the best juggler can only handle so-many balls.

Edit: moderators, could you please put this back into general, as this thread isn't about Calypso alone?

 

[Eron²]

think out of the box a little and think of EU as a racecar, MA are the mechanics that built the actual car, FPC are the people that painted it and put on the decals. when you see the car you say wow FPC made a cool car but really MA made the car FPC made it look good.

at least thats my take on how it works.

 

[Xavier_Jr]

Okay, fair enough.... different perceptions of what the word "coding" does, and does not include.

That aside... this leaves the questions:

- how "real" is the split of the company MA into MA and FPC then, if all the work is still done by the same guys

and...

- with the (supposed) growth of the number of planet partners: how will MA ever be able to handle the increased requests for content updates?

Will MA expand their programmers pool if a partner signs up? What if partners dissappear... bankruptcy, deaths, lack of prospective profits... will MA then be left with a HUGE payroll which they cannot afford?

EVEN if it is just a matter of slightly changing some parameters... how will MA decide which planet gets priority rights? How will they ensure that on peak times (Christmas, Halloween, other Holidays) every project is released on time.

Even the best juggler can only handle so-many balls.

Edit: moderators, could you please put this back into general, as this thread isn't about Calypso alone?

Normally when a project needs growth, It is needed to contract new people. Thats have a problem, because new people needs a time to understand in a perfect way, the new things for them. Independently about the existence of good documentation, it is needed a time to read and understand it. Therefore, is possible some stupid bugs from the past, eventually can do it again.

 

[Mary Jane]

Simply. The terrain, the mobs, the structures, the events, etc do not require any coding. Why should these involve coding?

Agree that's true

 

[Wollongong]

think out of the box a little and think of EU as a racecar, MA are the mechanics that built the actual car, FPC are the people that painted it and put on the decals. when you see the car you say wow FPC made a cool car but really MA made the car FPC made it look good.

at least thats my take on how it works.

MA is now hoping to get more racing teams on board, this means they'd have to start manufacturing more and more racecars.
This will stretch their resources.

If more planets pop up, will MA hire staff (it's easy to hire someone, it's harder to fire when teams drop out of the racing championships), or will it just try to stretch it's possibilities more and more?

 

[billairboy]

MA is now hoping to get more racing teams on board, this means they'd have to start manufacturing more and more racecars.
This will stretch their resources.

If more planets pop up, will MA hire staff (it's easy to hire someone, it's harder to fire when teams drop out of the racing championships), or will it just try to stretch it's possibilities more and more?

More planets don't necessary means more work for MA, in the end it's the planet partners that makes the planets not MA. Indirctly more players and planets increase the workload i guess.

 

[Zacariaz]

A code is a rule for converting a piece of information (for example, a letter, word, phrase, or gesture) into another form or representation (one sign into another sign), not necessarily of the same type.

In communications and information processing, encoding is the process by which information from a source is converted into symbols to be communicated. Decoding is the reverse process, converting these code symbols back into information understandable by a receiver.

One reason for coding is to enable communication in places where ordinary spoken or written language is difficult or impossible. For example, semaphore, where the configuration of flags held by a signaller or the arms of a semaphore tower encodes parts of the message, typically individual letters and numbers. Another person standing a great distance away can interpret the flags and reproduce the words sent.

Coding... I really don't think that anyone don't do it.

 

[Legion]

Think of FPC product as a drawing you can do with AutoCad. They dont need to make a Cad program to do the drawings.

The tools they use are of not course Autocad but very similiar in some respects.

They are most likely using "Maya i crash all the friggin time so make a shortcut to the savebutton" or they use 3D studio max if that even exist any more

because SOMEWHERE, someone has to define the altitude the ground is on at a specific coordinate. Someone has to define the combat stats of hostile units.

Someone has to, somewhere, make sure things work.

The altitudes etc is all done in the CE2 editor, you just paint the landscape and voila it's done. And combat stats are just put in as numbers into the editor i'd imagine or in some xml or similar sheet from a certain table that specifies how much hp a certain mob with this and this stat should have etc. Then when it get's compiled it's added to the db or such.

 

[Wollongong]

Why on earth do you guys even KNOW stuff like this...? Are you all trying to develop your own planet-business plans or something???

 

[Legion]

Why on earth do you guys even KNOW stuff like this...? Are you all trying to develop your own planet-business plans or something???

I'm a game designer so i SHOULD know Although i ended up being the ceo of my and my friends game company that we started together

 

[Mariko Ninja]

Hanne has said that FPC doesn't do any coding:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-Projects...&p=2610639&highlight=#post2610639


https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-Projects...&p=2610667&highlight=#post2610667


Somehow, I got the picture in my mind that MA only provided the platform, and FPC is responsible for the content. How on earth can a company create online content without any coding?

If it is MA doing all the coding, how do they plan to manage the content update streams for multiple

You got that right, FPC does not code, only Mindark does.

When I read the news about FPC being created, I knew shit had hit the fan.
Very comfortable for both companies now, FPC can hide behind the fact that they do not code,
and point at Mindark. Mindark gets more and more invisible, and we hear jack shit from them.
Basically they both screwed us over, I challenge both companies to proof me wrong.

So what we have now is,
FPC raising their hands into the air, “Oh but that is the problem of Mindark, they code, debugs and
do all the rest. We only draw new items and think up new skills.”
And Mindark has put the “do not disturb” sign on the door.

So it doesn’t matter who does what, end result is the same for us.

But at least they starting to learn how to apologize and communicate.
Only hope this is not an temporarily thing.

 

[XeroX2]

I'm a game designer so i SHOULD know Although i ended up being the ceo of my and my friends game company that we started together

lol I don't know why but for some reason I find the order of the words "my" and "my friends" wrong
Well apart from that it's really nice to see how fast u got from your thesis about EU loot to CEO.