Menu
What's New
By:
Filters

Game, or gambling?

Wollongong

Wollongong

Elite
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Posts
4,675
Location
Calypso
Society
Odysseus Unbound
Avatar Name
Jerry "Wollo" Wollongong
I hear some cc companies block MA for being a gambling site, and I see their point: obviously, luck is an important aspect in this game. You put in real money, and with luck, you get out more (remember the newb who got a tower on his first mining run)?

On the other hand, to me, it's a game... I run around, shoot a bit, bomb a bit, and if I win something, I play on...

So what is this thing?

A game that could be a gambling (and cause serious social problems), just gambling? Just a game? Or a gambling site with a clever disguise?

What do you think?
 
I just call it virtual entertainment.
But .. I get money out of it when I'm done with it.
EU vs. The local Bar.
I spend a year in the Local Bar. The local bar isn't going to give me back a chunk of cash at the end of the year.
I've spent a year in EU. If I want to leave, I sell all my items, skills etc.
I would get enough to go on vacation ;)

It's just entertainment to me and the people I know.

I wish it wasn't all about the money .. but to a lot of people, sadly it is.
 
Entropia Universe is not a game ...

If it isn't a game it must be for real ...

Real life is not gaming ...

Every step you take in real life is gambling ...

and I'm rambling ...

:D Lootius bless you.
 
yah i call it virtual entertainment
 
I call it gambling at least now days , its just like a casino big slots and small slots , only difference is they change your odds about every 30 days , so in this case i would call it a dynamic gambling
:laugh:
 
Wollongong said:
I hear some cc companies block MA for being a gambling site, and I see their point: obviously, luck is an important aspect in this game. You put in real money, and with luck, you get out more (remember the newb who got a tower on his first mining run)?

On the other hand, to me, it's a game... I run around, shoot a bit, bomb a bit, and if I win something, I play on...

So what is this thing?

A game that could be a gambling (and cause serious social problems), just gambling? Just a game? Or a gambling site with a clever disguise?

What do you think?
Click to expand...

Well, I think,..., um,... Yes, yes, and yes.

It really is pretty much what you make of it.

It can be intoxicating to some, and has caused some social issues for some. If all you wanted to do was hunt till you global, it could be much like many casinos. Plug the nickels in a pray for a jackpot. By all means bring us a lot of those kinds of players to feed the loot pool.

If you take it very seriously it can become a source of income. Much more than a game.

If you just play plug a little money into it, now and again, it's just a game.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: sob
what UK defines as gambling

The Act defines a "game of chance" as any game which involves elements of both chance and skill, or where superlative skill can eliminate chance. The definition of "prize" includes cash prizes, products and virtual prizes which can be exchanged for money.

a) Involves elements of chance and skill
b) superlative skills can eliminate chance(example 4200 evade)
c) prizes are cash or things that can be redeemed for cash


My friends that is exactly what PE is no matter how you want to look at it period.
Its gambling pure and simple.

An interesting thing this UK Act does is this

These include commitments to ensuring fair and open gambling, the protection of children and other vulnerable persons and the prevention of links between gambling and crime.

As it stands MA lists no chance of winning so they can basically be 1 in 10000 and no one would know. Also it protects the kiddies which i agree with, one can very easily become a gambler playing this game.
I think it would be great if MA said your chance of winning is 1 in 100 on snabbles and 1 in 75 on atrox and 1 in 50 on aurli.. that would be miles better than how the system is now
 
MA is guarenteed a profit, they are not gambling at all, ROFL.

Seriously, for a casual player - low regular deposits - who plays for fun or such it is not gambling.

For a number of players who regularly deposit large sums I would think it is gambling (certainly an addiction). If you are one of these ask yourself why you do not play another online game for a fixed price, and have at least the same amount of 'fun'? There are quite a few other games with better graphics, better gameplay, better plots (any plot is better imo). Unless you are really playing to gamble, in which case it is more fun than slot/poker machines.

That said, I am a small depositor who plays for a break from the other games. EU is really a simple game to play (compared to some others - particularly one space based one I play - no names here). I am not saying it is simple, just simpler. I really like the ability to log on for a few minutes or hours as my time permits, unlike my other games where a minimum session is about 1 hour.

Also my Soc is very friendly, yet another reason to play.

Deanie
 
eu is just the the best looking casino in the world FACT
 
Well....it begins with a "G"..... ;)
 
Dancer said:
b) superlative skills can eliminate chance(example 4200 evade)
Click to expand...

I wouldn't consider 4200 evade as being superlative. I'd think more like 10K+.

also, I doubt that when the act refers to skill that it includes a game mechanic (in-game skill levels). I'm certain they mean personal skills.

anyway, PE/EU is much too complex for more than a surface comparison to a game of chance. for example, I can easily execute a plan to run a business. it would be no more like gambling than a RL business venture.
 
Dancer said:
The Act defines a "game of chance" as any game which involves elements of both chance and skill, or where superlative skill can eliminate chance. The definition of "prize" includes cash prizes, products and virtual prizes which can be exchanged for money.

a) Involves elements of chance and skill
b) superlative skills can eliminate chance(example 4200 evade)
c) prizes are cash or things that can be redeemed for cash


My friends that is exactly what PE is no matter how you want to look at it period.
Its gambling pure and simple.
Click to expand...

I see a lot of EU as gambling. You can hunt, mine, craft and it's all about luck. Can you get lucky enough to get the big loot? If so you can sell and cash that out for it's tt value or sell for market and cash out. However, there are aspects of EU that are not gambling. Land ownership and high-end reselling are more about investing money and hoping to generate a profit. It's not gambling...at least no more than buying stocks, bonds, or art in RL. There are products that can be sold, including selling art (like several galleries that I've seen), which really have nothing to do with gambling since you're provding the content. You can offer services that are not gambling...a fapper, organize events, etc.

So if you revolves exclusively around game play in the form of hunting, mining, crafting then I can definately see EU as a different kind of gambling site. However, it's not exclusively gambling.
 
I have a simple definition:

Gaming is playing something (computergame, poker...) without money.

Gambling is playing something (computergame, poker...) with money.

You do deposit? Then EU is gambling.

You don't? Then it's just gaming. :)
 
Courtesy of Dictionary.Com

Game
–noun
1. an amusement or pastime: children's games.
2. the material or equipment used in playing certain games: a store selling toys and games.
3. a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance on the part of two or more persons who play according to a set of rules, usually for their own amusement or for that of spectators.

gam·ble
–verb (used without object)
1. to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes.
2. to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice.


It IS a game. and it IS gambling regardless of whether you've deposited or not. You must have money to do anything but sweat/collect crap on the ground. Once you have sweat, you've now obtained REAL money. Whether or not you choose to withdraw this money does not negate that it has actual face dollar value. There for you are still gambling even if the money wasn't yours to start with. Just the same as if someone handed you a chip at the casino and you go and play a hand of blackjack. Once that chip landed in Your hands, Now its Your money and YOU are gambling.
 
EU is gambling.
Investing is gambling.
Asking your boss for that raise is gambling.
Walking a tightrope over the pig pen is gambling.
Telling your wife that she is putting on a few pounds is gambling.

All to different degrees. So what?
 
EU is gambling by far and most. However, I can think of two places where random chance is at least less important than some modicum of skill:

PVP
Grenade Launchers


Ironic somewhat, since in RL grenade launchers don't require the same level of skill to hit a target.

That being said, in everything else Entropian, you might as well be rolling the bones.

AG
 
I see a lot of faulty logic here, of the form:

All Zs are Bs
Y is a B
Therefore, Y is a Z


Also known as Fallacy of the Undistributed Middle


To put it in words:
All forms of gambling(Z) are activities where chance determines the outcome(B)

In EntropiaUniverse(Y), chance is a determining factor in the outcome of certain activities(B).

Therefore EntropiaUniverse(Y) is gambling(z)

A very straightforward and clear-cut case of fallacious reasoning.


While it is true that, by definition, gambling includes a certain amount of chance, this does not mean that all activities that include chance in the outcome are hence gambling.

Some examples where chance plays an important and significant role in outcomes, but which most people would not consider "gambling" per se:

  • Stock trading
  • Running for political office
  • Skydiving
  • Buying a house or other real estate
  • Driving an automobile (interestingly, this IS a form of calculated risk-taking for auto insurance companies)
  • Walking out your front door


In any case, it is my understanding that the basic underlying engine that runs EU has been reviewed by Swedish authorities (which are notoriously strict with regard to gambling laws), and it has been determined that Entropia is indeed not considered a form of gambling. Thus this discussion seems to be a moot point.
 
I must say that Eu is a gamble. It reaches out and grab youre gamblingdevil so hard that you cant leave even though you know that the "game" itself is a big pile of **** Im glad i managed to get of that addiction before i regreted it way more than i already do!
 
kira-red said:
I wouldn't consider 4200 evade as being superlative. I'd think more like 10K+.

also, I doubt that when the act refers to skill that it includes a game mechanic (in-game skill levels). I'm certain they mean personal skills.

anyway, PE/EU is much too complex for more than a surface comparison to a game of chance. for example, I can easily execute a plan to run a business. it would be no more like gambling than a RL business venture.
Click to expand...

Yes, you can execute a business, but it IS more gambling than RL business venture as:

1) You are relying on MA not to change stuff, while IRL, there is no one supreme being which can screw your company
2) There are MORPG-experts who are likening RCE's to pyramid schemes.

I said a lot more than that in the earlier post, but sadly, it seems I am not allowed to post lessons learned elsewhere on this forum :(
 
neomaven said:
I see a lot of faulty logic here, of the form:

All Zs are Bs
Y is a B
Therefore, Y is a Z


Also known as Fallacy of the Undistributed Middle


To put it in words:
All forms of gambling(Z) are activities where chance determines the outcome(B)

In EntropiaUniverse(Y), chance is a determining factor in the outcome of certain activities(B).

Therefore EntropiaUniverse(Y) is gambling(z)

A very straightforward and clear-cut case of fallacious reasoning.


While it is true that, by definition, gambling includes a certain amount of chance, this does not mean that all activities that include chance in the outcome are hence gambling.

Some examples where chance plays an important and significant role in outcomes, but which most people would not consider "gambling" per se:

  • Stock trading
  • Running for political office
  • Skydiving
  • Buying a house or other real estate
  • Driving an automobile (interestingly, this IS a form of calculated risk-taking for auto insurance companies)
  • Walking out your front door


In any case, it is my understanding that the basic underlying engine that runs EU has been reviewed by Swedish authorities (which are notoriously strict with regard to gambling laws), and it has been determined that Entropia is indeed not considered a form of gambling. Thus this discussion seems to be a moot point.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely right about the whole fallacy thing, but... if a judge were to decide on Gambling or not, he'd take the definition of gambling by their law, and just tick the boxes.

Just like thieving is taking something that belongs to someone else without his consent.

Suspect took a car (tick), the car was owned by someone else (tick), the other dude didn't say it was okay (tick) --> thief, go rot in jail :)

Other than that... nations can ban entire websites from their territory, as China threatened to do with Google if certain results weren't hidden from Chinese visitors.

Theoretically, UK could do the same, and only allow websites to be visible if they have a permit (and yes, I am aware they probably won't as this would be a direct violation of about 384746 international treaties)
 
Game or Gamble.

That's a state of mind.

I play a game for fun.

I Gamble in the hope of wining.

There is your answer.
 
Look at it as a hobby and have fun...in loosing some $ or, if you're lucky, win some. Always remember MA also has to pay their employees.:whistle:
 
Wollongong said:
You are absolutely right about the whole fallacy thing, but... if a judge were to decide on Gambling or not, he'd take the definition of gambling by their law, and just tick the boxes.
Click to expand...


In the most simple of terms:

1. Customer pays in with cash, or takes MA's complementary funds through sweat dung, or fruit.

2. Customer presses buttons, mouse, etc, to actuate functions in a complex system whose inner workings are totally unknown to the customer. Randon (Marco would say "dynamic"... nice weasel word, that) things happen that most likely will not, but *could* result in a large award of chips... oops.. PED.

3. Customer has the option of keeping them in game (deal me up another hand!) or taking the PED and cashing out.

Hmmm... How many check boxes was that?

AG
 
Clearly it's not gambling.

I would never go to a casino that takes this big of a cut.

;)

-
 
neomaven said:
I see a lot of faulty logic here, of the form:

All Zs are Bs
Y is a B
Therefore, Y is a Z


Also known as Fallacy of the Undistributed Middle


To put it in words:
All forms of gambling(Z) are activities where chance determines the outcome(B)

In EntropiaUniverse(Y), chance is a determining factor in the outcome of certain activities(B).

Therefore EntropiaUniverse(Y) is gambling(z)

A very straightforward and clear-cut case of fallacious reasoning.


While it is true that, by definition, gambling includes a certain amount of chance, this does not mean that all activities that include chance in the outcome are hence gambling.

Some examples where chance plays an important and significant role in outcomes, but which most people would not consider "gambling" per se:

  • Stock trading
  • Running for political office
  • Skydiving
  • Buying a house or other real estate
  • Driving an automobile (interestingly, this IS a form of calculated risk-taking for auto insurance companies)
  • Walking out your front door


In any case, it is my understanding that the basic underlying engine that runs EU has been reviewed by Swedish authorities (which are notoriously strict with regard to gambling laws), and it has been determined that Entropia is indeed not considered a form of gambling. Thus this discussion seems to be a moot point.
Click to expand...

Its to bad the CC companies and banks here in the US are seeing it otherwise. I've tried talking to them all the way from the customer support on up the chain of command until I hit a wall and it did no good. MA must not be that concerned though since they pretty much wash their hands of it and leave it up to the participants to work out.

While I have never thought EU was strictly a gambling MMO I always knew there were elements of chance within it. But just like Neomaven stated everyday you get up their are elements of chances involved in everyday life activities. I think many of the recent nerf VUs have given EU more of an impression of being a game of chance but I guess that depends on what you participate in when you sign on.

Its all a matter of how its perceived and right now some institutions see it one way and others are "knee jerking" it into the online gambling sites section. I just know MA needs to perk up on this issue or they will loose a good percentage of their depositing participant base here in the US just due to how EU is perceived by Banks.
 
neomaven said:
[*]Driving an automobile (interestingly, this IS a form of calculated risk-taking for auto insurance companies)
Click to expand...

I'd only point out here that driving a car from point A to point B has a chance of success much higher than going out hunting in PE for monts up to years trying to loot whichever item wanted from that mob =)

so, I'd rather say that driving a car is basically 99% certain event (let's assume car is ok and weather is manageable), otherwise no insurance company would not make any contracts ;) now, find that insurance company that makes a contract with you about going out to hunt in PE... ..... ........ still looking? =)

please, continue.


J.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top