Have Land Deeds renewed your interesting in EU?

[Commodore]

I'm another of the disenfranchised old players (open beta), who's somewhat slipped off the radar, quite randomly checking up this week to see how things are going. I've got my reservations as most long term participants have, being forged in the fire of personal experience expect things others wouldn't consider, thoughts of how MA work aren't bound within the realms of fair play; Well that's not entirely correct, more that what people might expect to be reasonable and what MA will do/not do/modify/time scales, could well be at odds.

It might seem a shot below the belt, but what guarantee have we, that MA wont make like our rl governments and perform quantative easing at some later point devaluing the 'investment' made though these deeds - or as the Calypsian on the street would say 'copy & paste'

The rates they offer are very attractive, if I dumped in my current savings it'd return 1/2 my income before tax assuming 30% ROI. However it is a reward to match the risk, there is zero guarantee or legal position requiring MA/FPC to make good on the promise. The deeds are in-world items, and as such offer EULA guaranteed liability for tt value. I don't think too many people will be happy exchanging $100 for 10c.

Having said that, I left because I wasn't getting the pleasure that I used to. Unexciting loot, few friends, dead soc and the feeling that I had more memories of good times than were likely to happen again. I do believe in Project Entropia, the sky didn't fall, isn't falling and is unlikely to. I've always been keenly aware though that just because Entropia goes on, I might not be able to hold on.

Their's a pretty good chance I'll get involved again, citizenship fits my style and I've probably got lower expectations than newer players (read: more likely to be fulfilled). When I read voting rights, I don't envisage access to the Calypso House of Commons / Senate, etc. I'm thinking "oh they'll bring back the voting booths, crikey blast from the past!".

 

[gtphanta]

Someone brought up an interesting point about MA needing cash so people can cash out...


That's what I've been saying all along - when you deposit, MA has your IRL money. The money on your PED card doesn't really mean anything until you withdraw, so if you look at MA as a bank or some kind of share investment (whether you profit or lose is irrelevant), who then put your money into various of their own investments (whether it's a bank to earn interest, the stock market, or new servers, salaries etc.)...


Take a hypothetical situation on a game/internet universe that exists quite similar to EU. Players deposit money into the game, leave it there for a year without spending ingame, and then decide to withdraw a year later.
Even if the owners have been very careful, invested all that IRL money into a bank or shares, chances are that they won't earn enough on interest to pay salaries etc, if those people all withdrew all their money without ever having spent it in game.

I worry that it is a flawed model, which may one day come crashing down. I really don't want it to - and hope that they've been careful with their spending, but how do you keep cash on hand equal to the value on all PED cards + the TT value of all items in game (TT is the only money MA owe people on items, TT+ only players pay)? It might actually be possible considering the nature of huge TT+ amounts, and L items which vanish with extended use.


As for my thoughts on the Land deeds, I think they're probably a good idea, however if they're really making 54-60% ROI (Players get 50% of Calypso profit, expected to be 27-30% ROI, so x2 = 54 - 60% ROI total), then I think they're making too much profit.

I think that taking 54-60% profit is very short sighted, as we mustn't forget, that all this is money coming from my personal hunting losses (or so it feels like).

What if they took a longer term approach? I don't feel like I have to buy Land Deeds to be an investor. I've deposited my money and will get a return on it (probably a negative money return, but I get fun too) when I withdraw one day -

I say I'm already an investor!

They should be giving that 27-30% (if not more) return back in the form of my hunting/mining/crafting returns, rather than this rather sneaky approach which says I'm only an investor if I spend my ingame money on these items, which as they have a 0 Ped value, I don't believe MA every intend buying back from us - only other players can buy them - which could be quite a risky investment if the ingame numbers drop, or EU ever winds down (nothing lasts forever).

If they put those returns back into the Loot Pool (increase drop rate etc.) it might make the game more fun, more people would play, and who knows, we might go back to the glory days of 2005 when PE was awash with new players - I remember hanging out at various places with 30+ people, and every where you went you saw other people... nowaday's it's quite empty, and I feel just a bit sad about that...


The reason I said this is sneaky, is it's basically doing a public offering, within their own framework, without having to follow all the rules and regulations set by the various stock markets.

In saying that I think it's NOT all bad, but definitely "Buyer Beware" - know what you're getting into before doing it...

I do however like that it will keep players in the game - if they manage to sell 60k Land Deeds for 1000 Ped each, those people are somewhat committed to EU.


I guess what I want to say is, "I am the 99%"

 

[Commodore]

Someone brought up an interesting point about MA needing cash so people can cash out...

If this was to cover out the cashout, consider the fantastic opportunity from your own point of view.

• The people doing cash outs have formed an orderly que and are waiting for a more beneficial time to not negatively impact MA's fiscal plan.
• Now that people of different wealth sell items to get funds for deeds, reducing both prices and demand, now is a great time to sell your hard earned loot to the bargain hunters.

As for my thoughts on the Land deeds, I think they're probably a good idea, however if they're really making 54-60% ROI (Players get 50% of Calypso profit, expected to be 27-30% ROI, so x2 = 54 - 60% ROI total), then I think they're making too much profit.

I'm not sure why you're doubling up the ROI percentage, the deeds themselves are a liability to MA, they money they take from sales will be put to use as mentioned advertising, etc. This doesn't map directly to revenue. The percentages neither map to returned loot. Bearing in mind we're talking about (plus other monies as disclosed by MA) ~10% of a players expenditure, 30% of 10% Player cycles 100ped on hunt, loses 10ped, 3ped is 0.005pec to a deed holder.

Even though it's been well explored that MA need both the money and release from visible outright ownership of the planet, that the deeds cycle money back into the economy, and is a far cheaper proposition than real investors, they should instead be making the unhappy person/person who didn't notice, who makes expected minor loss to have the happy joy of 7ped loss?

 

[Commodore]

1234567890

 

[Menace]

They started to.... and then I saw Star's "Sales" thread and got discouraged again....

Menace

 

[Mr Trayles]

Voted other as I was never disinterested to begin with. (Yet another poll with a bias)

 

[M Rufen Power]

They started to.... and then I saw Star's "Sales" thread and got discouraged again....

Menace

What makes you think he is selling out? That's what I thought but most likely he might just be selling all of his gear (which has a huge and considerable amount of ped value locked on them) to perphaps purchase all the deeds he can so he can still withdraw from EU & still be earning without having to play as much & do more irl stuff. For star hunting possibly earns him more than 30% roi per year on the ped he cycles but either way it frees up his time. I think for any player the deeds do give us a new area of interest in EU to think about.

 

[ZippO]

Needless to say I've been thinking a lot about Entropia Universe these past few days and the Land Deeds have a lot to do with it. While I can see the pros and cons of this venture I can't help but think that this is what I have been wanting for EU for a long time. I can only speak for myself here but I have always wanted a stake in Project Entropia but just never had the funds at the right time to do so.

I like the idea of having a vote and I think having this profit share will add a little transparency I know I have wanted for a long time.

I know I have been liquidating and not playing EU and not been that positive about the game for some time. There are various reasons for that, going back to school being just one of them. Surprisingly as I re-invent my avatar and see the good EU is doing in my real life, like paying for school, I can't complain. I am looking forward to starting over believe it or not and having my little stake and citizenship on Calypso. Just like I have said in the past, it’s OK to take a break from EU and approach the game differently with a new perspective and I will be doing so very slowly at first and then probably more as I finish school.

I really hope to start more creative endeavors when it comes to EU because I have always liked the concept, look, and feel of Project Entropia.

I think with anything in life you will have your negative and positive feelings about it and Entropia Universe sure does mimic real life in that aspect. It will never be perfect nor will it ever be what it once was but if my vote and continued participation can have some influence in the way it progresses I can't gripe about that.

7 years is a long time to play any game so in that respect MA and now FPC are doing something right. It will be an interesting next few years for sure.

Do you think the Land Deeds will renew interest in EU like they have for me? Have they renewed or increased your interest in EU?

I have always liked your way of thinking Sirhc, and i am feeling sort of the same way. I have been in the game since Dec 2002 and have gone through much of the same love/hate about this game but it does seem that MA is making some good footsteps in the right direction. I just need some more time to invest in actually playing and yes i perhaps will be buying a few deeds too.

 

[Xavier_Jr]

Do you think the Land Deeds will renew interest in EU like they have for me? Have they renewed or increased your interest in EU?

Well to be honest, I felt much safer before the Land Deeds. I'll explain why. If a company like SDS could not get financing to buy Calypso, thats just showed me that SDS was not a solid company. (Although it could also be considered The Banks have not lend money to buy Calypso for other reasons). But now, if to do advertisment and propaganda; Mindark must borrow money to players and could not get from a bank by themselves, thats makes me worry. (Before, I was calmer.)

 

[CycoKick]

Nope, still slowly chippin out. Not played for a year now and even though i miss it sometimes I dont miss it at all. Lost my connection and love for the game end last year.

 

[toad]

But its alot better to sell your product and spend those money on advertisment than to borrow for it, borrow money for advertisment would be really stupid since you never know how much it brings back, you could end up with loans and no money to pay for them so this way is ALOT safer since its not borrowed money

Well to be honest, I felt much safer before the Land Deeds. I'll explain why. If a company like SDS could not get financing to buy Calypso, thats just showed me that SDS was not a solid company. (Although it could also be considered The Banks have not lend money to buy Calypso for other reasons). But now, if to do advertisment and propaganda; Mindark must borrow money to players and could not get from a bank by themselves, thats makes me worry. (Before, I was calmer.)

 

[valentin]

Well to be honest, I felt much safer before the Land Deeds. I'll explain why. If a company like SDS could not get financing to buy Calypso, thats just showed me that SDS was not a solid company. (Although it could also be considered The Banks have not lend money to buy Calypso for other reasons). But now, if to do advertisment and propaganda; Mindark must borrow money to players and could not get from a bank by themselves, thats makes me worry. (Before, I was calmer.)

I can only see it like MA is borrowing the money from the players and that MA pays back that rent they want to pay without to pay the loan back to the players, and the money who MA is going to pay the rent i think will be come from the loot-pool money in that way we pays the rent selfs and MA gains lot of money.

 

[Xavier_Jr]

... so this way is ALOT safer since its not borrowed money

You are Ok. It is safer for them, but not necesarily for people (because exactly it has not borrowed, people could lose everything) That is one of the reasons because I am worry.

I can only see it like MA is borrowing the money from the players and that MA pays back that rent they want to pay without to pay the loan back to the players, and the money who MA is going to pay the rent i think will be come from the loot-pool money in that way we pays the rent selfs and MA gains lot of money.

Yep, The House never lose!

 

[toad]

This land deeds are exactly as unsafe as everything else in this universe, as soon as you hit the deposit button the money is no longer yours, if MA will go bankrupt we will be far down in the foodchain for getting any money back, first its banks and other irl companys that gets their share if any and the question is if we can get anything at all back in that case, no matter if we had tt value on our items or not, like on the land deeds.

 

[danimal01]

There is actually a new planet partner that owns calypso.

From QA about calypso land deeds:



And a link to swedish page allabolag.se
http://allabolag.se/5567666416

So they created this "deeds" system for what then if someone already purchased Calypso? That does not make any sense at all to me ...

It would make more sense to just buy a Land Area since people are wanting to deposit that much anyways. You would make more with a Land Area per month than you would with a few deeds per month.

~Danimal

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

To my mind Deeds are better than many land areas because there are no maintenance costs, there is no effort involved, no need to market your LA, no need to place DNA etc


Essentially a deed is like owning the largest Land Area. The whole of the planet as well as all the other planets i.e. proceeds gained from other planets if avatars born on Calyspso generate income on any other planet.


As long as there are people generating income on Calypso you will get a percentage of those incomes. With time when marketing kicks in and other planets grow the player base is likely to be considerably bigger. The returns in my opinion are likely to be higher than 27%-30% ROI. These returns are based on a low population with marketing the population is likely to increase. Depending on how much the population increases by ROI could quite easily be considerably higher than present projections.

 

[toad]

I agree with that, i wish i had peds to buy atleast 100 deeds because when ROI goes uo compared what is said now the price on deeds will also go up and i think that is very possible.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

I can only see it like MA is borrowing the money from the players and that MA pays back that rent they want to pay without to pay the loan back to the players, and the money who MA is going to pay the rent i think will be come from the loot-pool money in that way we pays the rent selfs and MA gains lot of money.

1) They have to pay 25% as they have said so in press releases and official releases, doing otherwise would be illegal.
2) The 25% is taken from the gross revenue, which is already taken from the loot pool before being divided, meaning its not taken from the lootpool unless they change the % of PED they take as revenue, and I doubt that'll happen.

 

[GoNi]

1) They have to pay 25% as they have said so in press releases and official releases, doing otherwise would be illegal.
2) The 25% is taken from the gross revenue, which is already taken from the loot pool before being divided, meaning its not taken from the lootpool unless they change the % of PED they take as revenue, and I doubt that'll happen.

wrong!!!!

Citizens of Planet Calypso will receive a share in the planet partner Gross Revenue. Based on Planet Calypso’s performance over the last twelve months, the potential ROI (Return of Investment) of such shares is expected to be between 27% - 30% per year.

potential ROI = not guranteed
if calypso goes bad, ROI is bad, if calypso goes like last year ROI is around 27-30%, if calypso does a lot better, then ROI is even better!

Unbelievable that some people still didn´t get it, how this shares will work.

MA nowhere stated that they give 25% ROI, all MA stated is that they give a part of planet revenue (50%) to the deedholders.

 

[garion75]

wrong!!!!



potential ROI = not guranteed
if calypso goes bad, ROI is bad, if calypso goes like last year ROI is around 27-30%, if calypso does a lot better, then ROI is even better!

Unbelievable that some people still didn´t get it, how this shares will work.

MA nowhere stated that they give 25% ROI, all MA stated is that they give a part of planet revenue (50%) to the deedholders.

Please read Nighthawks post again!

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

potential ROI = not guranteed
if calypso goes bad, ROI is bad, if calypso goes like last year ROI is around 27-30%, if calypso does a lot better, then ROI is even better!

Unbelievable that some people still didn´t get it, how this shares will work.

MA nowhere stated that they give 25% ROI, all MA stated is that they give a part of planet revenue (50%) to the deedholders.

I never said I was talking about the ROI, I was talking about the % of revenue share...

 

[Bernz]

Voted other as I was never disinterested to begin with.

Same here.