Have the estate development opportunities been profitable?

DeeDee

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Dee Dee Deranged
Back in 2009 MA introduced the option for landowners to buy improvements (such as TPs).
I was very sceptical as I found the prices to be way too steep to be really be profitable.

So my question now is, to those who made the investment, has this helped your land to become profitable or increase profits?

Introduction thread: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-Available-Now&highlight=Landarea+development

Prices etc as it is today: http://www.planetcalypso.com/opportunities/estate-development/

//Dee
 
I purchased a range of enhancements back at the start and they had different effects over time.

I'll put together a summary next week, though overall I believe only a few of them have any value, and that value is still pretty limited in general.

- Deathifier
 
That would be interesting, much appreciated! :wtg:

//Dee
 
The prices are pretty steep. It seems like the Shopping Booth expansion might be the most cost effective since it effectively doubles the utility for 2k PED. Probably having a TP on an OLA is a good investment as well because so many societies have collecting all the TPs on Calypso as a rank requirement....but 75k PED for that... wow :eyecrazy:
 
But having a tp basically eliminates the need for any other terminals.

75k tp = 40k the pod + 15k trade + 15k repair + 15k storage. Not to mention the others.
 
btw if you buy crafting terminal then you dont need auctioneer (as you can use auction via crafting terminal).
 
But having a tp basically eliminates the need for any other terminals.

75k tp = 40k the pod + 15k trade + 15k repair + 15k storage. Not to mention the others.

Hmm... how does it eliminate the need for other terminals? 75k is just the TP, right?

If people have to "leave" your LA to buy/sell/repair/etc, then you are not retaining your customers.

Mindark needs to revise their pricing on the terminals - or perhaps throw in 2 for free for purchasing the TP.
 
If people have to "leave" your LA to buy/sell/repair/etc, then you are not retaining your customers.

Most people don't jump from LA to LA randomly, they come to those on purpose, either to do their grinding missions or hunt their favorite mobs, so they'll return right away after resupply, providing your LA has a tp. I, for instance, most of the time return to Aegis Mound for resupply (1 - it's on top of the tp list w/o scrolling, 2 - full set of terminals is right around the tp) and don't much care if LAs has any own terminals.

But not having a tp is indeed a loss. It happens all the time that I forget about troxes on ola2 and stick with traesks on ola1 (which has the nearest tp) after resupply :D
 
Any land owners with some input?

//Dee
 
*poking Deathifier *

:)

//Dee
 
I think if prices would be half than now and no time-limited global chat message option would still be available, MA should highly increase sales number.

There are improvments that won't ever payback the investment, like this:

Genesis Star Dropship (Choice of 6 terminals) - 150,000 PED
Frontier Drop Vehicle (Choice of 4 terminals) - 80,000 PED
Custom location to your specification - 75,000 PED


The last is out of any interest, moving an already paid Teleporter costs 75k peds more to locate in another position in your Land Area. Anyone might be attracted by this option?

But MA might hold prices so high for a reason.

This makes the own improvment keep its value in long term, considering it's an exclusive option only few Land owners offer to their customers. Only in this way the big investment can payback in anyway.

What I find difficult is that Arkadia LA might sell at thr asking price, and that to add lot of money to that price to add improvments should mean the ROI of the investment is so way too low compared to others investment options already ingame at a more accessible price.

So ok at high price from my side, just if anyone is planning to invest in a LA, considering a "cheap" LA to improve is an investment I wouldn't easy suggest to undertake :wise:
 
Paying for stand for any terminals is IMHO cruel from MA.
Terminals prices comparing to TP price is crazy. There is very liitle ocasions at which u need to buy one ( and most cases is that you cant afford TP ).When u buy TP u shall get set of terminals for free.
TP price was ok as for fulfiling initial hype. Now MA shall reduce them to 1/2 then 1/4 and even 1/8 later to squizee all whats possible from land owners and miximize incomes out of this implementation.
 
Here is a summary of the enhancements I purchased, the objectives I had when placing them, their impacts, and my thoughts on the estate enhancements in general.

In February 2010 I ordered the following:
3 City Spire Teleporters (I liked their design the most, plus they act as landmarks / beacons)
3 Custom Teleporter Names
3 Frontier Drop Containers (Each supports 4 Terminals)
3 Trade Terminals
3 Repair Terminals
3 Revival Terminals (Which came with a turret each for protection)
3 Storage Terminals

They were divided in to three groups with two deployed to Treasure Island (Volcanic Edge and Riverside) and one deployed to OLA-34 (Chilled Hogglo and Maffoid).

These all arrived in April 2010 and Planet Calypso placed them precisely where requested.


Treasure Island
The two groups for Treasure Island had no impact on revenue nor were they expected to.
They were deployed primarily to make life easier for those who had supported the island for so long.

Now visitors would be able to reach almost every location on the island with ease and would revive near the hunting area they were in, reducing the frustration associated with being killed.

It also allowed newer players to explore easier - death while exploring may well revive them at a new location from which they can continue to explore :)
The teleporters present also ensure they cannot get stuck or trapped by the surrounding creatures.
This is a core management policy I have endeavoured to maintain since the islands purchase.


OLA-34
The group for OLA-34 did have an impact on revenue for one simple reason - prior to this it was extremely difficult to reach the area and, at the time, ammunition still had weight, and there were no vehicles.
To reach the area people had to teleport there using MindForce which, since many people do not have long range teleport chips, made visiting the area rather inconvenient.

Thus a player could spend only a limited time on the area before they accumulated too much weight and could no longer effectively hunt, whilst the difficulty of access made it too much of a hassle to visit the area or return after leaving.

Thus the teleporter removed a factor that was limiting income - it did not *add* to revenue potential, it simply allowed the existing potential of the Hogglo to begin to be realised.

Since then the universe has undergone changes - other teleporters have been added (by players and the Calypso developers), vehicles now exist so you can still be mobile even when overloaded, and ammunition has no effective weight which means you can stay in the field far, far longer before mobility becomes an issue.


Were these enhancements worthwhile adding from the perspective of achieving my objectives?
Yes, they were, as they enabled easy access to OLA-34 and the regions around it as well as making life easier for those visiting Treasure Island.

Were they worthwhile from a business point of view?
Only on OLA-34, and only at that point in time - these days the additions are of little value.


What enhancements are worth adding from a business perspective?
For a Land Area only one enhancement has decent value overall:
- Tailored Chat Message for HOF/Global on Land Area

The main benefit of this is self-promotion of the area, which is very useful for increasing awareness of your area.

Not surprisingly this is the only enhancement option that went up in value whilst also becoming a recurring fee rather than a once off investment.


Everything else is, in my opinion, not worth adding anymore.

Teleporters - These remain overpriced and the network is now so dense, and other travel options so prevalent, that reaching an area is no longer a problem.

Services - These were not really needed back then (each Outback Land Area already has a revival) and are not needed now.
Services are only of value in extremely high traffic areas and then mainly as a convenience.
With no ammo weight and the improved teleporter network and transport options it is very easy to leave an area and return.
Additionally it is better just to get a teleporter instead (which is actually what many land owners did) as anyone who wants to continue their activity on the area will TP out and back again very quickly.

Changing Location of Teleporters & Service centers (new addition) - This is just outright ridiculous.
A small fee of 10k PED or perhaps much less (reflecting the actual costs to place or move things) should certainly be charged if you want to move existing structures around however charging this in addition to the costs to buy the structures in the first place is excessive to the extreme.

Streaming setup - Unless you already have a streaming arrangement and you have a large enough visitor base to justify it I believe it's simply not worth the hassle and overhead (as you still have to supply the stream) to operate.

Also for Treasure Island and I believe other multi-region areas the charge for streaming setup is per region - it took about 5 seconds for me to completely dump the idea when I found that out :)

Shopping Booths (no longer available) - potentially useful in high traffic areas although they have problems too.
One of these problems is that a high traffic area already places a lot of load on visitor computing power and adding to that load, especially with the open-air "see every item" booths, may well end up detracting from the experience.


If you own an estate or a shop?
The item point additions may certainly be worthwhile although, in my opinion, the planet developers should aim to balance the item points vs. available computing power and set the limits fairly high to begin with.
To me it makes more sense to encourage shop owners (who are trying to make the business aspects of Entropia work) to invest in their product range, manufacturing abilities, and promotion of their store, as these yield ongoing benefits for the planet.


If you own a shopping mall?
None of the enhancements are worthwhile.
They want to charge you 2.5 times as much from streaming audio (25k vs. 10k PED) and a name change this long after initial purchase brings with it all the usual brand changing complications.


If the community would like additional information or my opinions on making use of the estate enhancements in certain situations please post your questions and comments.

I'm also happy to hear feedback regarding the estate enhancements I purchased :)

Bye,
Deathifier
 
In February 2010 I ordered the following:
...
These all arrived in April 2010 and Planet Calypso placed them precisely where requested.

+rep to Death for sharing his experiences.

I ordered my LA enhancements (global chat message + natural spawn removal) Feb 2013 and have been told to wait until June 2013 before it is implemented.

Go figure :wise:
 
Thank you Deathifier, that was more than I hoped for. Very much appreciated! :)
Sadly your experience is what I suspected would be the case. I guess it might be alot worse for small land owners even.

//Dee
 
I ordered my LA enhancements (global chat message + natural spawn removal) Feb 2013 and have been told to wait until June 2013 before it is implemented.

Go figure :wise:

I believe they put them in as quickly as they can - the actual work, as I understand it, is trivial in terms of development resources required.

I'd say the limitation is the update cycle for the Planet Partners content (in this case, Calypso) and that cycle can certainly be rather drawn out unfortunately :(


Thank you Deathifier, that was more than I hoped for. Very much appreciated! :)
Sadly your experience is what I suspected would be the case. I guess it might be alot worse for small land owners even.

You're welcome :)
I believe some of the other OLA's definitely needed a teleporter and could definitely have used the global announcements and name feature, however adding anything else is really just making things a little more convenient for your visitors.

I'm sure the various OLA owners have their own thoughts though and I hope they share their experiences too.

Bye,
Deathifier
 
I'm sure the various OLA owners have their own thoughts though and I hope they share their experiences too.


Indeed. Anyone else wanna share? :)

//Dee
 
I can add one thing...

Teleporter at Hogglo+Maffoid LAs did worth to add cause served 2 LA and not one only, it won't easy payback the cost for 1 only LA.

So another solution might be to share the costs with your neighbours and to place it in a way it can serve 2 or more lands instead one only. But this isn't easy ofc :)

Atami's TP was placed in the same way, in middle between 3 of his LAs, same for OLA42 (I was one of the 3 owners at the time we placed it in the middle), and same for Saba Camp, that serves the close LA, now Rextelum one.
 
Last edited:
Here is a summary of the enhancements I purchased, the objectives I had when placing them, their impacts, and my thoughts on the estate enhancements in general.

In February 2010 I ordered the following:
3 City Spire Teleporters (I liked their design the most, plus they act as landmarks / beacons)
3 Custom Teleporter Names
3 Frontier Drop Containers (Each supports 4 Terminals)
3 Trade Terminals
3 Repair Terminals
3 Revival Terminals (Which came with a turret each for protection)
3 Storage Terminals

They were divided in to three groups with two deployed to Treasure Island (Volcanic Edge and Riverside) and one deployed to OLA-34 (Chilled Hogglo and Maffoid).

These all arrived in April 2010 and Planet Calypso placed them precisely where requested.


Treasure Island
The two groups for Treasure Island had no impact on revenue nor were they expected to.
They were deployed primarily to make life easier for those who had supported the island for so long.

Now visitors would be able to reach almost every location on the island with ease and would revive near the hunting area they were in, reducing the frustration associated with being killed.

It also allowed newer players to explore easier - death while exploring may well revive them at a new location from which they can continue to explore :)
The teleporters present also ensure they cannot get stuck or trapped by the surrounding creatures.
This is a core management policy I have endeavoured to maintain since the islands purchase.


OLA-34
The group for OLA-34 did have an impact on revenue for one simple reason - prior to this it was extremely difficult to reach the area and, at the time, ammunition still had weight, and there were no vehicles.
To reach the area people had to teleport there using MindForce which, since many people do not have long range teleport chips, made visiting the area rather inconvenient.

Thus a player could spend only a limited time on the area before they accumulated too much weight and could no longer effectively hunt, whilst the difficulty of access made it too much of a hassle to visit the area or return after leaving.

Thus the teleporter removed a factor that was limiting income - it did not *add* to revenue potential, it simply allowed the existing potential of the Hogglo to begin to be realised.

Since then the universe has undergone changes - other teleporters have been added (by players and the Calypso developers), vehicles now exist so you can still be mobile even when overloaded, and ammunition has no effective weight which means you can stay in the field far, far longer before mobility becomes an issue.


Were these enhancements worthwhile adding from the perspective of achieving my objectives?
Yes, they were, as they enabled easy access to OLA-34 and the regions around it as well as making life easier for those visiting Treasure Island.

Were they worthwhile from a business point of view?
Only on OLA-34, and only at that point in time - these days the additions are of little value.


What enhancements are worth adding from a business perspective?
For a Land Area only one enhancement has decent value overall:
- Tailored Chat Message for HOF/Global on Land Area

The main benefit of this is self-promotion of the area, which is very useful for increasing awareness of your area.

Not surprisingly this is the only enhancement option that went up in value whilst also becoming a recurring fee rather than a once off investment.


Everything else is, in my opinion, not worth adding anymore.

Teleporters - These remain overpriced and the network is now so dense, and other travel options so prevalent, that reaching an area is no longer a problem.

Services - These were not really needed back then (each Outback Land Area already has a revival) and are not needed now.
Services are only of value in extremely high traffic areas and then mainly as a convenience.
With no ammo weight and the improved teleporter network and transport options it is very easy to leave an area and return.
Additionally it is better just to get a teleporter instead (which is actually what many land owners did) as anyone who wants to continue their activity on the area will TP out and back again very quickly.

Changing Location of Teleporters & Service centers (new addition) - This is just outright ridiculous.
A small fee of 10k PED or perhaps much less (reflecting the actual costs to place or move things) should certainly be charged if you want to move existing structures around however charging this in addition to the costs to buy the structures in the first place is excessive to the extreme.

Streaming setup - Unless you already have a streaming arrangement and you have a large enough visitor base to justify it I believe it's simply not worth the hassle and overhead (as you still have to supply the stream) to operate.

Also for Treasure Island and I believe other multi-region areas the charge for streaming setup is per region - it took about 5 seconds for me to completely dump the idea when I found that out :)

Shopping Booths (no longer available) - potentially useful in high traffic areas although they have problems too.
One of these problems is that a high traffic area already places a lot of load on visitor computing power and adding to that load, especially with the open-air "see every item" booths, may well end up detracting from the experience.


If you own an estate or a shop?
The item point additions may certainly be worthwhile although, in my opinion, the planet developers should aim to balance the item points vs. available computing power and set the limits fairly high to begin with.
To me it makes more sense to encourage shop owners (who are trying to make the business aspects of Entropia work) to invest in their product range, manufacturing abilities, and promotion of their store, as these yield ongoing benefits for the planet.


If you own a shopping mall?
None of the enhancements are worthwhile.
They want to charge you 2.5 times as much from streaming audio (25k vs. 10k PED) and a name change this long after initial purchase brings with it all the usual brand changing complications.


If the community would like additional information or my opinions on making use of the estate enhancements in certain situations please post your questions and comments.

I'm also happy to hear feedback regarding the estate enhancements I purchased :)

Bye,
Deathifier

Great info. +rep. :)


I can add one thing...

Teleporter at Hogglo+Maffoid LAs did worth to add cause served 2 LA and not one only, it won't easy payback the cost for 1 only LA.

So another solution might be to share the costs with your neighbours and to place it in a way it can serve 2 or more lands instead one only. But this isn't easy ofc :)

Atami's TP was placed in the same way, in middle between 3 of his LAs, same for OLA42 (I was one of the 3 owners at the time we placed it in the middle), and same for Saba Camp, that serves the close LA, now Rextelum one.

Now that's probably why MA is charging the extra fee to MOVE the TP to any coordinates - as one TP on the borders can serve a bunch of connecting LA's.
 
I can add one thing...

Teleporter at Hogglo+Maffoid LAs did worth to add cause served 2 LA and not one only, it won't easy payback the cost for 1 only LA.

So another solution might be to share the costs with your neighbours and to place it in a way it can serve 2 or more lands instead one only. But this isn't easy ofc :)

Atami's TP was placed in the same way, in middle between 3 of his LAs, same for OLA42 (I was one of the 3 owners at the time we placed it in the middle), and same for Saba Camp, that serves the close LA, now Rextelum one.

It serves two LA's, yes, that's why it has the name it does and why it was placed where it is :)

However it didn't do much for OLA-33 as there wasn't much in the way of demand for hunting them.

People wanted to hunt the bigger Hogglo and the TP let them do that a lot easier.

People weren't so much interested in Maffoid (and still aren't, the area is now inactive whilst it awaits assessment) so whilst the TP lets people get there easier, it doesn't matter if almost nobody wants to go :)

The TP on OLA-34 was added to provide easier access to the area and allow the Hogglo's potential to be realised and it did that.
Ease of access to the surrounding area (including OLA-33) was a bonus, however it turned out that the bonus was negligible.

- Deathifier
 
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