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highest average dmg/pec weapons?

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Joker

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is there a chart somewhere?

i am curious as to the significance of this Average dmg/pec ratio... i see it use more now than the Dmg/pec ratio...
 
sorry for doublepost, but if you want to see this based on your skills and markups for L weapons counted into calculation you better use Entropia Tools
 
i ask this because Mod merc is 2.88...
i was testing my niflheim...
Max = 157
Min = 78.5
decays between 37-38 per swing...according to wiki 37.730 per swing

157+78.5 = 235.5 / 2 = 117.75 average dmg

117.75 / 38 (max decay) = 3.0986 (worst case)
117.75 /37 (min decay) = 3.1824 (best case)
117.75 / 37.730 (wiki stats) 3.12XX (official?)

http://entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Weapon&id=557

what is the min/max on ancient impmk2?
 
so in theory... Niflheim is more profitable than a mod merc ?

not to mention at 10/10 lots of 300+ dmg crits...
 
Joker said:
i ask this because Mod merc is 2.88...
[/qoute]

MM unamped = 4,38 DMG/pec
MM A204 amped = 4,44 DMG/pec

Joker said:
i was testing my niflheim...
Max = 157
Min = 78.5
decays between 37-38 per swing...according to wiki 37.730 per swing

157+78.5 = 235.5 / 2 = 117.75 average dmg

117.75 / 38 (max decay) = 3.0986 (worst case)
117.75 /37 (min decay) = 3.1824 (best case)
117.75 / 37.730 (wiki stats) 3.12XX (official?)
Click to expand...

exactly 117.75 / 37.730 is DMG/pec, but Entropedia is missing this data for Nilfheim

This data is only valid for people that have this weapon maxed !


Joker said:
what is the min/max on ancient impmk2?
Click to expand...

min 32 max 72 (only when maxed, with lower skills min DMG is lower but max DMG is the same)

This different with Nilfheim, if you have lower skills there your max DMG is lower, too as this is a L SIB weapon.
Click to expand...
 
GoNi said:
MM unamped = 4,38 DMG/pec
MM A204 amped = 4,44 DMG/pec

.
Click to expand...

I am not talking about the dmg/pec... i am talking about Average dmg per pec...

2.88 on MM + a106
3.12 on niflheim

thus making the Niflheim more economic on average than the Mod Merc...

maybe MA made it high efficency cause the melee amps will really suck?
 
average dmg/pec for maxed weapons is damage*0.75*0.92/(ammo+decay) (where 0.75 is 75% average damage and 0.92 is 92% average hit rate)
so as long as you're only comparing maxed weapons it doesn't matter if you count average or max dmg/pec. If you don't max the mm but you do max the x5 for example it's a better system to use since the mm formula will look something like damage*0.70*0.88/(ammo+decay)

here's average dmg/pec on a few weapons that might be of interest

mm+106 85*0.75*0.92/(16+3.202) = 3.05dmg/pec
imk2+106 90*0,75*0,92/(16+3.154) = 3.24dmg/pec
niflheim unlimited 157*0,75*0,92/37.730 = 2.87dmg/pec

so no the niflheim is in no way more eco than the mm (=
 
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mjukis said:
average dmg/pec for maxed weapons is damage*0.75*0.92/(ammo+decay) (where 0.75 is 75% average damage and 0.92 is 92% average hit rate)
so as long as you're only comparing maxed weapons it doesn't matter if you count average or max dmg/pec. If you don't max the mm but you do max the x5 for example it's a better system to use since the mm formula will look something like damage*0.70*0.88/(ammo+decay)

here's average dmg/pec on a few weapons that might be of interest

mm+106 85*0.75*0.92/(16+3.202) = 3.05dmg/pec
imk2+106 90*0,75*0,92/(16+3.154) = 3.24dmg/pec
niflheim unlimited 157*0,75*0,92/37.730 = 2.87dmg/pec

so no the niflheim is in no way more eco than the mm (=
Click to expand...

not following you... with these 75% and 92%...

why can you not take 157 + 78.5 = 235.5 / 2 = AVERAGE 117.75.. agreed? That is average dmg you cant get around that...

117.75 is the average of the Max and min... and decay does not change = 37.73...

so you take the average dmg 117.75 and div by the decay... thats 3.12 you cant get around that fact...

Average dmg/pec its a strict calculation atleast for the nifl you dont have to add ammo or these strange %s...

117.75 Average dmg/ 37.73 pec per swing

i guess you are correct but then you are not taking the "average" of the 2 seems we are changing the definition of average
 
"The value obtained by dividing the sum of a set of quantities by the number of quantities in the set."

so 2 numbers total...
157 + 78.5 = 235.5 = Sum
Divide the sum by the amount of numbers added together... 2

235.5 / 2 = 117.75 = average agreed?
37.73 = decay per swing

average dmg (117.75) per swing divide it by decay 37.73 (decay per swing)

it should be simular to the dmg/pec equation...

157 max dmg / 37.73 = 4.16

the only thing that changes is you are averaging the Min and the Max... nothing else comes into this equation... since it is the "average"
 
Joker said:
not following you... with these 75% and 92%...

why can you not take 157 + 78.5 = 235.5 / 2 = AVERAGE 117.75.. agreed? That is average dmg you cant get around that...

117.75 is the average of the Max and min... and decay does not change = 37.73...

so you take the average dmg 117.75 and div by the decay... thats 3.12 you cant get around that fact...

Average dmg/pec its a strict calculation atleast for the nifl you dont have to add ammo or these strange %s...

117.75 Average dmg/ 37.73 pec per swing

i guess you are correct but then you are not taking the "average" of the 2 seems we are changing the definition of average
Click to expand...

If I get this, you are right.... and wrong ;)

You count 100% hit, the MM+106 eco @ 3.05 is including the 8 % misses the you get on a maxed weapon.

Not counting the misses MM+106 will be 85* 0.75 /19,202 ( ammo + decay ) giving an average dmg/pec ~3,32

and if Im wrong its only coz I should be sleeping now :silly2:


S V ;)

Sorry for my broken English :)
 
Silver you are right

Mod Merc 3.28 maxed...
Niflheim 3.12 maxed...

hard to max that mod merc :)
 
Seems you already got it Joker but just to clarify, yes I agree that the average damage of the niflheim is 117.75.
157*0.75=117.75.

The minimum+maximum damage divided by 2 is the same thing as 75% of maximum damage. It's just much more practical to write it and calculate it as
max dmg*0.75
instead of
(min dmg+max dmg)/2

Joker said:
Silver you are right

Mod Merc 3.28 maxed...
Niflheim 3.12 maxed...

hard to max that mod merc :)
Click to expand...

Here you're still not accounting for misses with the Niflheim. You are aware that swords decay even on (skill) misses right? Assuming you're within range of the mob and aiming at it which I assume you normally do in hunting situations.
Just read my first post in this thread again, it's really quite simple
 
in other words you are saying the cost of per swing/shot raises by 8%

so 37.73 x 1.08 = 40.74 per swing if you account for the occational miss...
117.75 / 40.74 = 2.89

but of course this is better than some people who use Mod merc since most dont have it maxed :)
 
Last edited:
Yes, both entropedia and entropiatools have a handy function that allows you to enter your professional standing and after a minute of trial and error you can easily see the breaking point where f.e mod merc+106 becomes more eco than niflheim. Which is level 78 laser pistoleer and level 78 ranged laser damage if you keep them both at the same level.

And no I'm actually saying that the average damage decreases by 8%, not that the cost per swing increases by 8%. It makes a small but not insignificant difference (=
 
entropiatools requires you to know your minimum damage with a weapon, instead of calcing it for you. I found entropedia has a greater scope, and see absolutely no point whatsoever in multiplying everything by .69. It's simple enough to wrtie an excel function that determines the profession level you need to be to achieved eco x.xx (and before you ask, yes, I have developed this for myself :p)
 
mjukis said:
Seems you already got it Joker but just to clarify, yes I agree that the average damage of the niflheim is 117.75.
157*0.75=117.75.

The minimum+maximum damage divided by 2 is the same thing as 75% of maximum damage. It's just much more practical to write it and calculate it as
max dmg*0.75
instead of
(min dmg+max dmg)/2
Click to expand...


Thats definately wrong, and if this formula is used in entropedia or entropiatools, both is useless!

maxDMG + min DMG / 2 = average DMG (nothing else)

a little example

Asume a weapon that has min DMG 5 and max DMG 25 (don´t know if such a weapon exists but its possible that one exists)

5 + 25 = 30
30 / 2 = 15 (Average DMG)

now your formula

30 * 0.75 = 22.5 (definately not average DMG !)

That this 75% thing fits on the average DMG of Nilfheim is just a coincedence!
Maybe if minDMG is always 50% of the max DMG at maxed weapons, you can use this 75% thing, but only if this weapon is maxed, as soon you have lower min DMG (uL) due to lack of skills, or lower maxDMG (L) due to lack of skills, this 75% thing can´t work anymore!
 
Last edited:
Just to clarify, the average and effective damage calculations of Entropedia are explained in the discussion tab
 
Witte said:
Just to clarify, the average and effective damage calculations of Entropedia are explained in the discussion tab
Click to expand...


Thanks Witte
You calclate Average DMG in the same way as I do it.
Nothing else expected ;)
 
GoNi said:
That this 75% thing fits on the average DMG of Nilfheim is just a coincedence!
Maybe if minDMG is always 50% of the max DMG at maxed weapons, you can use this 75% thing, but only if this weapon is maxed, as soon you have lower min DMG (uL) due to lack of skills, or lower maxDMG (L) due to lack of skills, this 75% thing can´t work anymore!
Click to expand...

In fact, the min dmg _is_ always 50% of max damage for maxed weapon.
Thats the reason a lot of people use the 75% quick way...
And I think that is a pretty good way to calculate "average dmg" for a specific weapon without consideration who is using it.

If you on the other hand want to calculate "actual average dmg", then you will have to weigh in skills to, and for any unmaxed weapon you will have to use the (min + max)/2 formula.

My useless 2 pecs :)
 
mjukis said:
You are aware that swords decay even on (skill) misses right? Assuming you're within range of the mob and aiming at it which I assume you normally do in hunting situations.
Click to expand...

My melee weapon don't decay on misses?
 
GoNi said:
Thats definately wrong, and if this formula is used in entropedia or entropiatools, both is useless!

maxDMG + min DMG / 2 = average DMG (nothing else)

a little example

Asume a weapon that has min DMG 5 and max DMG 25 (don´t know if such a weapon exists but its possible that one exists)

5 + 25 = 30
30 / 2 = 15 (Average DMG)

now your formula

30 * 0.75 = 22.5 (definately not average DMG !)

That this 75% thing fits on the average DMG of Nilfheim is just a coincedence!
Maybe if minDMG is always 50% of the max DMG at maxed weapons, you can use this 75% thing, but only if this weapon is maxed, as soon you have lower min DMG (uL) due to lack of skills, or lower maxDMG (L) due to lack of skills, this 75% thing can´t work anymore!
Click to expand...


maxed weapons always got min dmg 50% and max dmg 100%

if u didnt got it maxed u have to enter ur min and max dmg on entropiatools :D
 
GoNi said:
Thats definately wrong, and if this formula is used in entropedia or entropiatools, both is useless!

maxDMG + min DMG / 2 = average DMG (nothing else)

a little example

Asume a weapon that has min DMG 5 and max DMG 25 (don´t know if such a weapon exists but its possible that one exists)

5 + 25 = 30
30 / 2 = 15 (Average DMG)

now your formula

30 * 0.75 = 22.5 (definately not average DMG !)

That this 75% thing fits on the average DMG of Nilfheim is just a coincedence!
Maybe if minDMG is always 50% of the max DMG at maxed weapons, you can use this 75% thing, but only if this weapon is maxed, as soon you have lower min DMG (uL) due to lack of skills, or lower maxDMG (L) due to lack of skills, this 75% thing can´t work anymore!
Click to expand...

this is what made sense to me...

Dmg per/pec = max dmg / decay (or decay + ammo)

so

Average dmg per/pec = Average Max + Min / decay


that is how most people would calculate it... and it should be calculated... but on Entropiatools and others its done the way mjukis outlined... Neither way is wrong... just i think they mean something differnt...



I guess there is an "On the paper" Average dmg/pec and then "In use" Average Dmg/pec...

On paper is my way
In use is mjukis
 
GoNi said:
Thats definately wrong, and if this formula is used in entropedia or entropiatools, both is useless!

maxDMG + min DMG / 2 = average DMG (nothing else)

a little example

Asume a weapon that has min DMG 5 and max DMG 25 (don´t know if such a weapon exists but its possible that one exists)

5 + 25 = 30
30 / 2 = 15 (Average DMG)

now your formula

30 * 0.75 = 22.5 (definately not average DMG !)

That this 75% thing fits on the average DMG of Nilfheim is just a coincedence!
Maybe if minDMG is always 50% of the max DMG at maxed weapons, you can use this 75% thing, but only if this weapon is maxed, as soon you have lower min DMG (uL) due to lack of skills, or lower maxDMG (L) due to lack of skills, this 75% thing can´t work anymore!
Click to expand...
mjukis said:
average dmg/pec for maxed weapons is damage*0.75*0.92/(ammo+decay) (where 0.75 is 75% average damage and 0.92 is 92% average hit rate)
so as long as you're only comparing maxed weapons it doesn't matter if you count average or max dmg/pec.
Click to expand...

Yes, as I said here you do 75% average damage with a max weapon. In this thread he was asking if a maxed niflheim was more eco than a maxed mod merc and I supplied him with the formula to calculate just that. For non maxed weapons it will of course look very different and as already been said the easiest way is to go to entropedia and enter your skill levels to get the average for your skills.

dr_udi said:
My melee weapon don't decay on misses?
Click to expand...

Not if you just swing it in the air not aiming at anything. But if you miss a mob due to the skill check and whatever random variables MA uses your melee weapon will decay like a normal hit.
It's quite easy to check. Drag your melee weapon to a quick button on screen to have it easily accesible. Right click the button and open item info. Find a suitable mob and start whacking away, and close/reopen the item window after every hit and every miss. You'll see that the tt value goes down after every swing.
An exception to this could be if you're suffering from massive packet loss, which could result in the server not realizing you're swinging the blade sometimes.
 
all these variables... we should factor in crits some how if we factor in misses :)
 
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