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XingTianNu

XingTianNu

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Xing Tian Nu
I looked bit on the forum but can’t really find what am looking for…

What HA will be ok to start using non L gun?

I was thinking at 4.0 sound ok but as it is in % 6.0 or 7.0 sound less costly.

Did any of you guys start using non L at 4.0 HA and what did you think from it?

Ty.
 
I'll usually wait for it to be 10/10, even though I don;t get the full SIB (Sometimes a tiny SIB period remains @ 10/10)

My reasoning - Once the gun is gone, it's gone.. I'd prefer to get my full effectiveness from it for the whole duration of it's use
 
You will NEVER get 10/10 on a non L gun :) Opallo excepted
Around 6 should be more eco I spose offset by fact that you can go and half repair it if short of ped instead of having to buy L gun from auction
 
For non L I started below 4.00. Used scopes and lasers though.

Once it came to 4.00 (i may be mistaken - didn't keep a record of it) i stopped using scopes and lasers as i didn't miss much anyway.
 
Alien 'I'll usually wait for it to be 10/10, even though I don;t get the full SIB (Sometimes a tiny SIB period remains @ 10/10)

My reasoning - Once the gun is gone, it's gone.. I'd prefer to get my full effectiveness from it for the whole duration of it's use'

But that on L weapons right? I mean on non L to wait 10/10 I will need 10k skills which may even never happen…

I mean on non L weapons at what HA it will be ok to start to use one?

Or is it just not worth the % you pay on L and then is better to use only L because the % to buy will be less that the cost to use UL gun.

As for now I already maxed the P5a and it works great just tempted to move to the 41 military to avoid the % markup every time I buy P5a.:)
 
GeorgeSkywalker said:
For non L I started below 4.00. Used scopes and lasers though.

Once it came to 4.00 (i may be mistaken - didn't keep a record of it) i stopped using scopes and lasers as i didn't miss much anyway.
Click to expand...

I’m already at 4.1 so you think it will be better to go on UL or to use maxed L ?

ATM using the P5a is the best eco wise for me even that i can buy much biger L gun the % is just not worth the investement.
 
Sorry I'd mis-interprted the initial question.

If you use good scopes and lasers to achieve a high skillmod, you can effectively bump your 4.1 to 6.1 or even higher (At least that is the belief)

For example 2 Dynera lasersights (15.5 skillmod each, and a Jzar precision scope (14 skillmod) would equal a skillmod of 45%, taking yout 4.1 up to almost 6 HA.

Of course, you could use more expensive scopes and sights to achieve a greater skillmod!

Check 'em out here http://www.entropiawiki.com/Chart.aspx?chart=Attachment
 
Alright that sound good am going to switch weapons.

Ty Alien your advice/knowledge is always precious.:wise:

The prob with L (aside that it breaks) is some time I can’t find one in auction when I need it that the main reason I want to move to UL.

+rep to all of you ty for helping me decide:)
 
Your Hit ability isn't really the issue, I think. More important is your ability to do damage. It's the range between lowest and highest damage that makes the difference when we start counting cost per kill. Adding good scopes and lasers will improve your hit ability, but the cost will increase as well.
And you will still be crappy at doing damage. ;)

My suggestion is that you stay with (L) guns until you've reached level 60-70 damage. If you can't hold off until then at least wait until level 45 damage in the chosen profession.

But that's just my :twocents:
 
Dmg is easy to chip cos there are not too much related skills on it and most of them are the cheaper skills on market. I wonder more about the missing hits.;)
 
4HA with attachments seems to fit with the old school idea of weapons being economical once at 6-7HA, though i wonder if that assumed atachments being used too?

anyway, its overrated, you're talking about changing miss-rate a few percent. average damage is probably more important in the long run.
 
There are so many good cheap L weapons... I see no reason why you want to use old school UL.

A weapon where you don't have max damage and 10/10 HA, is not good to use, as it is not for your skill. It is a difference from 9.5 HA to 10 HA. You can notice it.

If you buy something UL, let it be some new school UL or some uber old school like IMKII, IM2870 or MM. Those may work even when they are not maxed, but even with those I expect bad results.
 
BlackHawk said:
There are so many good cheap L weapons... I see no reason why you want to use old school UL.

A weapon where you don't have max damage and 10/10 HA, is not good to use, as it is not for your skill. It is a difference from 9.5 HA to 10 HA. You can notice it.

If you buy something UL, let it be some new school UL or some uber old school like IMKII, IM2870 or MM. Those may work even when they are not maxed, but even with those I expect bad results.
Click to expand...

You are right as with P5a I always (almost) profit… I guess I use in on the right mob.

But some time I can’t find one in auction, now ofc I can buy two at time so I get one always in storage.

Another think is the skill gain with P5a is almost none (well is really slow).
I was thinking to move up to bigger L but they are looted and the markup scare me (I think am cheap).

I made up mine mind I will buy 41 and maybe I can use it sometimes and not all the time.

I will tell you guys how are going betwin the two guns once I get one.

PS. If MA did not screw UL HL8 owners by putting insane TT on the gun I will own one long time ago.:mad:
 
Let me do some math for you at the difference using a p5 Vs ep41 at my skill level.

I am level 57 Laser Pistol Hit, Level 54 Laser Pistol Dmg.
I have a A106 amp so I will use that in my numbers.


Using a P5 at 111%
2.919 avg dmg per pec spent
35.282 avg dmg per second

for every 1000 ped spent hunting (Gun, amp and ammo cost) I should expect to do 291,900 dmg

Using EP 41 with 2 Hunnir Laser Sights and a Jzar Scope (woudl be a 58% skill mod making my HA 9.006)

2.674 avg dmg per pec spent (I believe scopes and laser sights also add 5% to total cost so should fall to 2.54 dmg per pec)
42.163 avg dmg per second

for every 1000 ped spent hunting (Gun, amp and ammo cost) I should expect to do 254,400 dmg


so ep-41 at my current skill rank would cost me 13% more to use over all.

thats 130 peds more spent to do the same dmg for every 1000 ped spent.

since I turn over on avg 2000-3000 peds a day I would loose an additional 260-390 peds a day if I used an ep-41 instead of P5.

Now I dont know how loot works for sure, but I do know I tried an ep41 and lost alot when I was around level 35.

My conclusion is by switching to an EP-41 it would be like loosing an additional P5 everytime for ever 1 P5 worth of hunting you did with the ep41. I rather pay 20 peds in markup to buy a p5 then to pay 200 peds in poor eco play.

If you want to spend peds, I rather see you upgrade your amps first, buy an a105 or a106. It will give you a few more dps and the eco would be great.
 
Ty for the math side.:)

Maybe MA will go normal again and the next gen weapons will be at low TT and not insane 10k TT so many ppl will buy the UL versions of the L weapons.
 
Just a thought but according to several threads on here I will throw in two thoughts to ponder.

Many Many threads have been written in regards to hunting and loot. Many many long term and highly skilled players state that loot is tied directly to ped recycled in the game. To me that means the more ped I blow thru the more will come back in returns.


On the other hand alot of people are now saying the way the economy in EU is you MUST hunt Eco to make ped returns optimum.

These two statements are in direct conflict with each other and have bugged me for a long time as I have seen many people in here use BOTH reasonings in various posts to suit their needs.

To me MA wants to force everything to L crap so they no longer have to hold ped on the books so to speak to cover ingame monies. On the other hand I dont see MA rewarding ANYONE for being cheap (AKA ECO players) in the long run as they are here to make money and all else is connected to that rationale.

That being said... I really dont think any of this makes a shit of difference on a player per player level. It all comes down to how much money MA needs at a given time as to how well our returns will be. Obviously they will be rewarding the players that have deposited MASSIVE amounts of money to keep them investing in the game. If you are not playing at that level the minute amout of money you have put into the game does not matter. So the few pennies you save eco hunting may seem alot to you or I but in MA's eyes you do not show up on their radar untill your investment in EU be it in deposits or in accummulated wealth exceed by my guess of over 250k usd.
 
Trina both statements eco and ped turnover is correct you need to do both to do well in the game. But spending more on markup or uneco turnover will make you fail. You need to turn over as many peds as you can as cost effectively as you can to do well.
 
PopFuzz said:
(I believe scopes and laser sights also add 5% to total cost so should fall to 2.54 dmg per pec)
Click to expand...

you try to prove something with the maths then "believe" something adds 5%. why dont you actually check. i reckon you'll find its more like 1.5%. so what else might be wrong in your assumptions?


right now theres an anomoly in the economics, time was when markup on L items balanced out so that the eco difference was neutralised or even in favour of unL. time will tell if that situation returns.
 
I know I was estimating, let me get you exact numbers, eitherway scopes and site makes the eco even worse. And as soon as the price of L guns gets near ep41 in eco then ill say use ep41. Its all about using the most eco option you can now not using a poor eco weapon now in hopes that it gets better later.

EP41 cost per shot
1.3 pec gun decay
13 pec ammo gun
2.92 pec a106 decay
1 pec ammo amp
.2 pec 2 hunnir sights
.09 ped jzar

total cost per shot
18.51 pecs per shot so scopes and site ads 1.566% to the total cost per shot but if you look at the gun decay you are adding 22.30% to the gun cost? Wow I was doing a quick estimate on the decay but on the gun itself its like your paying 122% markup if you use the scopes? Please correct me if my math is wrong









aridash said:
you try to prove something with the maths then "believe" something adds 5%. why dont you actually check. i reckon you'll find its more like 1.5%. so what else might be wrong in your assumptions?


right now theres an anomoly in the economics, time was when markup on L items balanced out so that the eco difference was neutralised or even in favour of unL. time will tell if that situation returns.
Click to expand...
 
PopFuzz said:
total cost per shot
18.51 pecs per shot so scopes and site ads 1.566% to the total cost per shot but if you look at the gun decay you are adding 22.30% to the gun cost? Wow I was doing a quick estimate on the decay but on the gun itself its like your paying 122% markup if you use the scopes? Please correct me if my math is wrong
Click to expand...


it increases the dmg/pec by 1.56% by your own numbers. nothing more or less. compare like for like, dmg/pec or not at all. decay cost is irrelevant, or are you going to start arguing that blp at 2.5 dmg/pec is less eco than laser at 2.5 dmg/pec?
 
No same dmg/pec is same eco. Slightly lower eco riffle is same eco as hand gun (Cause of less armor decay due to range) and slighly lower eco higher dps weapons is also same eco (Less hits due to dmg speed).

But are you arguing that EP41 with scopes is not worse eco then P5?

What im saying is buying the ep41 to save 10% markup on the P5 does not sound like a good deal if you have to pay 22% more to use the ep41 on the scopes alone (talking gun cost here not entire hunt cost)

aridash said:
it increases the dmg/pec by 1.56% by your own numbers. nothing more or less. compare like for like, dmg/pec or not at all. decay cost is irrelevant, or are you going to start arguing that blp at 2.5 dmg/pec is less eco than laser at 2.5 dmg/pec?
Click to expand...
 
To address the original question... I went all UL at ~level 54 and I do not regret it one bit. I am currently using M2875 and Starkhov AS-147. The reasons I went UL are many and well discussed here on EF - nothing new with my reasons. I still use lasers and scopes. I rarely miss, but there are mechanical ways to handle that. You may already know about these, but PM if interested. Somethings are not meant for open posting ;)

XingTianNu said:
You are right as with P5a I always (almost) profit… I guess I use in on the right mob.
Click to expand...

I think you are correct - the mob plays a huge part IMO. Just because I am advancing in my professions does not mean I will hunt larger, stronger mobs. I would rather use my advancing skills to my advantage rather than simply invite more decay and cost to a hunt. Just because you can kill something, does not mean you should hunt it.
 
PopFuzz said:
What im saying is buying the ep41 to save 10% markup on the P5 does not sound like a good deal if you have to pay 22% more to use the ep41 on the scopes alone (talking gun cost here not entire hunt cost)
Click to expand...

im not saying that ep41 is more eco, im highlighting that your reasons and logic have errors. you still persist with saying its costing 22% more when the dmg/pec says otherwise just highlights that you havent worked it out properly: you cannot isolate the attachment costs, they are part of the overall cost per use same as amps. to add that 1.56% increase in cost is more than balanced by the increased HA (even by your own numbers above) and its affect on eco overall, so making the gap between P5 and Ep41 smaller than the headline ~13%. like i say, have fun with you p5 now, in 6 months it could be 130% and this discussion would be moot.
 
Your right I had to adjsut the 13% down a little to closer to 10% more expensive but still a huge difference in eco (100 peds per 1000 ads up fast in my book). Still much bigger gap I think then using a bigger L gun. Heck I rather see someone use an hl11 at 145% then an EP41 more eco and more dps. And again if P5 is 130% in 6 months then yes I may consider an EP41. But in no way do I think its good to tell someone to go ahead and use the EP41 till they are skilled enough to use it. Again you need to take a look at the market place, if there is tons of great L choices out there at a good price then I say go for the L guns. If the L guns rise fast then it may make sense to use an ep41.

I use pretty much all weapons in game, I look for the greatest DPS I can use for the least cost.





aridash said:
im not saying that ep41 is more eco, im highlighting that your reasons have errors. and you still persist with saying its costing 22% more when the dmg/pec says otherwise just highlights that you havent worked it out properly. to add that 1.56% increase in cost is more than balanced by the increased HA (even by your own numbers above) and its affect on eco overall, so making the gap between P5 and Ep41 smaller than the headline ~13%. like i say, have fun with you p5 now, in 6 months it could be 130% and this discussion would be moot.
Click to expand...
 
aridash said:
have fun with you p5 now, in 6 months it could be 130% and this discussion would be moot.
Click to expand...

That was always the biggest issue with me. The MU on the crafted weapons can fluxuate on the whime of the sellers / crafters. Or simply the supplies of needed resources... to many "if's". My weapons are paid for. I repair them and hunt whenever I want.
 
I know this might a be slightly off topic question:

Do people profit with p5a or ep 41?

Kosmos
 
Don't ever think you Won't hit 10/10

it is possible :) Just take a lot of time, playing 3-4 hours a day you might get there in 5-7 years?

Not that long imo!!!


I go by the lucky number 7 rule..

777
Hit ha = 7.0+ = profiting
 
The_Doctor said:
which UL gun is most ecco?
except opalo :scratch2:
Click to expand...

It is either the Imp MKII or the ModMerc... which explains the outrageous price for either.
 
2 ways I can think of to deal with the original problem.

Use UL whenever a suitable L weapon isn't readily available for a whort while until one comes up at the right price for you. A little wasteful but not for too long, and better then paying too much or using a poorly matched L gun or not hunting at all.

Find a crafting service (or skill up yourself if it's not such a big cost) to make L guns for you and avoid silly markup. Chance for the crafter to gain free skills and maybe a shared global/HOF may entice someone with serious skills to help you out ?

I do the 1st myself now, and am skilling towards the other very slowly but one day will hopefully be able to make what I use within reason.

t
 
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