Home Ownership - by popular request

[Indigo Wyrd]

I first posted this epic wall of text in another thread, but I've gotten a lot of feedback (good feedback) from people, suggesting it get it's own thread, so by request, here is a wall of text regarding the housing situation, and a suggestion about what to do about it.

Buy a house - ya know, I'd love to buy a house, there's just one problem:

There aren't any for sale. The real-estate side of EU is pathetic. Yes, I've seen a few deeds for some way out the way places, and at insanely high prices - hence I guess these deeds are still sitting around, waiting to sell.

But this also falls into that same idiotic concept of "owning land" - land is simply there.

I've seen I can't tell you how many sites I've visited exploring my way around the world and thought to myself "It would be great to put a house right here."

But that option does not exist.
I can't see any reason why we shouldn't be able to wander out somewhere, say into a forest of pink trees, fell a few and build a cabin. Or spend some time chipping away at boulders strewn across a rocky plain, and construct a small keep.

Calypso is a huge place, and yet housing is in such short supply.

Now before you say "Yes, but owning property means you can make money..." - no, it doesn't necessarily mean that. Yes, some properties can make money, if they're LA type properties, or feature hangers. But if you were to construct a small dwelling somewhere, you'd have no control over what mobs spawned, no residual income from hunting/mining, etc. You'd just have a place to dump your stuff, other than the storage boxes.

The whole point of Calypso is Colonization. Part of Colonization is the setting up of settlements - building homes and living out your life.

I say there should be a Residence Deed available from the trade terminal*, allowing anyone who wants one, and is limited to ONLY ONE, to pick a spot and call it "home".

This would allow for user-made "towns" to spring up in areas, dotting the landscape with little "villages".

Yes, these user-built settlements would lack some things - no Teleporter for quick access to the "big cities", no auto-cannons to fend off wild mobs - and that's a good thing. It gives the residents reasons to skill their hunting abilities, or hire guards. The benefits of this far outweigh the time it would take to do a little extra programming.

What would need to be done:

A little simple coding to ensure the site chosen is suitable - not too close to another structure, not in/on the water (though underwater dwellings might be kind of cool too), not hanging off the side of a mountain in such a manner as to defy the laws of physics. A simple check to see if the ground in a radius of the player is "level" and not "water" not "too close" to another structure, and not in the area of a "city, town or camp" (much in the same way you'll get the message "this area is not suitable for mining", if you try to mine in the biodome**)- otherwise show a message "This area is not suitable for housing".

Once the site is chosen and confirmed, You've got a small structure with a limited number of item points (5-10 maybe - after all, these should not be more beneficial than the elaborate multi-k-ped houses that do already exist).
Now you can move in - furnish as you like.

Now there may come a time when the site you've chosen no longer suits you. You should have the option as well to dismantle and move your little dwelling, come the day EU grows beyond just Calypso and CP.

* Yes, trade terminal. Yes, you only get one. No, you can't sell or trade it. Why? The reason is to make this available to everyone, and at a price reasonable enough that even a couple week old character can afford it.
Why only one? It prevents hoarding, price manipulation, and overcrowding.

** Yes, that's correct. You cannot mine in the biodome. Tried it for fun in New Switzerland, haven't tried it in PA, but I'm sure the same holds true there as well.

~I

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

There has been talk about being able to build your own houses...

As for the shortage of housing, I think that there was some people that bough all the estates when they were first relased, and now they sell them of slowly to get max profit from it (not sure though, only heard this from other people)...

 

[onyx oZ Zombie]

ah yes, very good idea imo

"quick, come and hide in my igloo to get away from those phasm!"

 

[Indigo Wyrd]

ah yes, very good idea imo

"quick, come and hide in my igloo to get away from those phasm!"

Sounds like a plan - but I've been inside some of the larger homes and still been attacked through the walls. Of course, this was out by Argus, and it was only an Exasaur pest, but still...

Nighthawk: That I would believe, as most of the deeds I have seen have all been in shopkeepers owned by the same person. Quite a shame, really, for everyone else.

~I

 

[Lobbe]

I first posted this epic wall of text in another thread, but I've gotten a lot of feedback (good feedback) from people, suggesting it get it's own thread, so by request, here is a wall of text regarding the housing situation, and a suggestion about what to do about it.

Buy a house - ya know, I'd love to buy a house, there's just one problem:

There aren't any for sale. The real-estate side of EU is pathetic. Yes, I've seen a few deeds for some way out the way places, and at insanely high prices - hence I guess these deeds are still sitting around, waiting to sell.

But this also falls into that same idiotic concept of "owning land" - land is simply there.

I've seen I can't tell you how many sites I've visited exploring my way around the world and thought to myself "It would be great to put a house right here."

But that option does not exist.
I can't see any reason why we shouldn't be able to wander out somewhere, say into a forest of pink trees, fell a few and build a cabin. Or spend some time chipping away at boulders strewn across a rocky plain, and construct a small keep.

Calypso is a huge place, and yet housing is in such short supply.

Now before you say "Yes, but owning property means you can make money..." - no, it doesn't necessarily mean that. Yes, some properties can make money, if they're LA type properties, or feature hangers. But if you were to construct a small dwelling somewhere, you'd have no control over what mobs spawned, no residual income from hunting/mining, etc. You'd just have a place to dump your stuff, other than the storage boxes.

The whole point of Calypso is Colonization. Part of Colonization is the setting up of settlements - building homes and living out your life.

I say there should be a Residence Deed available from the trade terminal*, allowing anyone who wants one, and is limited to ONLY ONE, to pick a spot and call it "home".

This would allow for user-made "towns" to spring up in areas, dotting the landscape with little "villages".

Yes, these user-built settlements would lack some things - no Teleporter for quick access to the "big cities", no auto-cannons to fend off wild mobs - and that's a good thing. It gives the residents reasons to skill their hunting abilities, or hire guards. The benefits of this far outweigh the time it would take to do a little extra programming.

What would need to be done:

A little simple coding to ensure the site chosen is suitable - not too close to another structure, not in/on the water (though underwater dwellings might be kind of cool too), not hanging off the side of a mountain in such a manner as to defy the laws of physics. A simple check to see if the ground in a radius of the player is "level" and not "water" not "too close" to another structure, and not in the area of a "city, town or camp" (much in the same way you'll get the message "this area is not suitable for mining", if you try to mine in the biodome**)- otherwise show a message "This area is not suitable for housing".

Once the site is chosen and confirmed, You've got a small structure with a limited number of item points (5-10 maybe - after all, these should not be more beneficial than the elaborate multi-k-ped houses that do already exist).
Now you can move in - furnish as you like.

Now there may come a time when the site you've chosen no longer suits you. You should have the option as well to dismantle and move your little dwelling, come the day EU grows beyond just Calypso and CP.

* Yes, trade terminal. Yes, you only get one. No, you can't sell or trade it. Why? The reason is to make this available to everyone, and at a price reasonable enough that even a couple week old character can afford it.
Why only one? It prevents hoarding, price manipulation, and overcrowding.

** Yes, that's correct. You cannot mine in the biodome. Tried it for fun in New Switzerland, haven't tried it in PA, but I'm sure the same holds true there as well.

~I

wonderful idea I have always been w8ing for my own house. It will bring some "sims" feeling to EU and that's great I think so plz ad houses to tt and let the ppl put them almost everywhere

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

wonderful idea I have always been w8ing for my own house. It will bring some "sims" feeling to EU and that's great I think so plz ad houses to tt and let the ppl put them almost everywhere

or rather house parts...

Buy items:
Main House Model 042B - 800PED
Watchtower Model 09A - 550PED
Add-on Entrance Room Model 02 - 400PED



And then rent ofc... maybe based on the size of the house? (kinda like decay is higher when you have add-ons on weapons)

There would also have to be some rules, like:
"Ground must be flat"
"No vegetation is allowed at the house area"

Buy items:
Ground Flattener - 80PED
Machete - 25PED

 

[thoreau]

there is not a lack of housing. the problem is houses and apartments have been purchased and abandoned.

MA needs to clean house and all inactive accounts (>1 year?) need to have an housing removed and placed on auction.

 

[Indigo Wyrd]

Not auction - I know what will happen - someone with more PED then they know what to do with will simply buy them all, horde them, and resell them for many times what they paid for them - ensuring they stay out of the hands of the majority.

As I recall, the "abandonment period" before accounts go away is 330 days without logging in - and if you're just a "storage account", it's pretty simple to log in once in a rare while to "reset" that period.

Ideally, there should be an NPC on the ground floor of each apartment building who holds the deeds to the apartments in that building. If the "rent" is not paid for two consecutive rental-periods, the apartment holder looses the deed (aka is evicted), which is then returned to the "building manager" NPC. This would be far more realistic, since apartment tenants don't actually "own" their apartments, they rent them. This would also provide incentive for people to pay their rent - especially if items left behind in "abandoned" apartments were "lost".

Nighthawk: What you propose would be a good idea for either existing homes, or as an addition to my proposal, as these add-on modules could increase the item storage capacity, and thereby increase the overall value of a property.

But what I had in mind was more along the lines of PS-110 Shelter - more akin to a large, rigid tent, or pop-up style camper, with enough space inside for a few items (or points worth of items).

They shouldn't hold more item points than an apartment, or there'd be little value in having an apartment.

~I

 

[Warpath]

I definetly agree with the eviction Idea.

Also building your own house would be cool, but there would have to be restrictions on how much you can build, otherwise the same thing would happen, the players with tonnes of ped would run around building estates in as many good places as possible and slowly sell of the deeds to prime location real estate.

But it is a great concept for MA to consider.

 

[Rumsponge]

If MA wanted more housing in EU, all they need to do is throw up more apartment buildings. Maybe in VU 10?

I think a lot of people have talked about how cool it would be if they added a "Construction" profession. Unfortunately, there are a long list of similar "nice to haves" but they won't get addressed until the "must haves" are completed.

...so, VU20ish?




Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Indigo Wyrd]

I doubt we'll see VU 10 - most likely be CE2 by then.

And I think a major point is being missed - this isn't a cry for more high-rise apartment buildings. This is call for more user-interaction. The point of Calypso is colonization - that means, among everything else, having a place to call "home".

Apartments are great if you want to live in the "big city" (or mostly abandoned cities from what I've seen).

But this is about more "city life" - this is about frontier life - little cabins (or nifty-looking high-tech porta-shelters) dotting the horizon. These aren't meant to be sell-able things - they're not supposed to make us New World Landlords.

They're meant to give everyone the opportunity to set up a little place to call "home", until they either move into "the city" or one of the spots of "prime real estate" - the ready-made little towns (such as along the beaches of Corinth).

They're also not meant to be "luxurious" in any way - just simple little shelters.

~I

 

[davidgr1200]

There are plenty of boards in the game. MA needs to produce some bps which can then be used with the wood to craft doors/walls/roof. Maybe they would decay and thus not be a "threat" to apartments?

 

[Staffas]

I was in a beta test of a MMOG that has this feature. It was great fun. There were specific areas where you could build your house though.
The prices for those houses were quite expencive and you needed to either guard you house yourself or hire ourself a NPC guard or MOB raiders would come and destroy your house.

I realy like your idea, and it realy fits into the basic story of EU with the colonisation theme,

There would be (on player initiative) soc villages and specific hunting vilalges for specific mobs, like a perfect starting point if you are looking for someone to go on a team hunt on a specific mob.

For me this would be a more interesting implementation than cars for example.

 

[Buck Wyld]

There are plenty of boards in the game. MA needs to produce some bps which can then be used with the wood to craft doors/walls/roof. Maybe they would decay and thus not be a "threat" to apartments?

ya, i tend to agree, lvl 13 carpenter and no stinking blueprints availible!!! i would love to put this skill to a use such as this

buck

 

[Hubert Zymp]

Buy items:
Main House Model 042B - 800PED
Watchtower Model 09A - 550PED
Add-on Entrance Room Model 02 - 400PED


[...]
Ground Flattener - 80PED
Machete - 25PED

Lol, you're giving ideas to MA

Like your post, so.

As said later, there will be inflation on the rare parts, I guess a similar story than DNAs. Try to get a DNA C or (much much harder) an Hoglo tooth at a decent price. However... DNAs bring peds to landowners... if the new houses don't bring peds, then the inflation would be limited.

Also, I'd support anything that can give a positive kick to the carpenter profession. So I kinda like all that.

 

[slasha]

its a nice idea..but lets face it..they havent even done pets properly yet..and some players have payed alotof money already in pet handeling (ect).Eu isnt that big either.certainly not enough room for every account to have a home, especialy if u discount uneven areas or vegetation.
and if we all take a spot of ground that means we stop the other players from being able to roam there .EU would just be a network of shanty towns with herds of mobs in the alleyways between.

 

[Dorsai]

Why not.
Buy a plot of land.
Buy a selection of BP's, Door, roof, wall, floor, floor tile, roof tile, etc.
Go craft a selection of house parts, and then go assemble them.

Me, I would go for either a log cabin, or a small circular castle, complete with a few "old style" cannons on the roof.

 

[Snabble]

or rather house parts...

Buy items:
Main House Model 042B - 800PED
Watchtower Model 09A - 550PED
Add-on Entrance Room Model 02 - 400PED



And then rent ofc... maybe based on the size of the house? (kinda like decay is higher when you have add-ons on weapons)

There would also have to be some rules, like:
"Ground must be flat"
"No vegetation is allowed at the house area"

Buy items:
Ground Flattener - 80PED
Machete - 25PED

Medication to help with delusions that MA would make Mass housing for everyone ...... 1000 ped

 

[Ozi]

I love this idea. MA desperately needs to further develop the economy of EU and this would do alot to improve things.

It would be great if new players were able to go claim a little patch of turf and build a small tent from the tt. Then they could slowly improve their dwelling.

The system should require constant maintenance (basically just visit your tent) and have them dissapear if you didn't use it. This would stop the continents becoming full of empty tents.

Societies could work together to make certain places more desireable, maybe if you maintained a dwelling for a certain period (lets say 1 year) you then get a deed for it. It could be the start of something much bigger, allowing societies to build fortified towns, build there own tp's etc etc. All of these developments would need to be crafted, hence creating demand for materials (benefits miners and hunters) and ofc crafters to build things.

New professions could be introduced like stonemason, lumberjack or whatever.

I do believe that EU's economy is just too simple for it to entertain millions of people. Therefore, it needs to become more complex if it is to really grow.

 

[Pogny]

this is a great idea

but try to imagine if every player can build his own house :
- lots of lags to load all the houses
- whats the use of deeds ?

Ma will never let people build their own house, and people holding a deed will be not happy to pay for an house when now people can have it for free...

but i love the idea !

 

[Ranyard]

this is a great idea

but try to imagine if every player can build his own house :
- lots of lags to load all the houses
- whats the use of deeds ?

Ma will never let people build their own house, and people holding a deed will be not happy to pay for an house when now people can have it for free...

but i love the idea !

the new houses really wouldn't be free. unless you had the crafting skill to assemble the house yourself.
otherwise you have to:
pay to have the foundation laid,
pay to have the bricks put up,
pay to have the plumbing installed for the privy,
pay to have the roof put on.

all these would be done my specialized craftsman. one game I played had the housing set this way, and let me tell you, those craftsmen where highly sought after.

after the initial bugs of the game were worked out, there was little to no lag when moving into an area that was full of player built housing, so I don't imagine this would be an issue here in EU

 

[Indigo Wyrd]

Time to grab the reins here... this one's getting out of control!

I'm not talking about building houses like those that dot the Corinthian shore line, nor even the more modest homes around Argus or... well, anywhere there are currently houses.

I'm talking about little shanties - small cabins, not elaborate chateaus.

Room enough for a single bed, a side table and a storage box type housing.

Done right, they'd match their environments - made of purple logs in the Shinook area, or igloos around Solifas Crater, stacked stones in the Eudorian plains...

Done high-tech, they'd be similar to the "boxcars" of outposts, though likely only half the length. Not much in the line of splendor - they're not supposed to be.

They should be small, cramped and encourage people to want bigger and better places, hence they should be cheap and openly available.

Not that I don't like the idea of truly custom-build, 1 PED per brick, multi-million PED, do-it-your-self housing in the styles that already exist - this would also be cool, but it's beyond the scope of this thread.

 

[Bomb]

Great idea. But it could be more complex, like Ozi said. I like the idea of after a year your "dwelling" maybe became bigger or got an enhanced look. Became a solid feature rather than a dwelling you could pick up and move. Then you could get a deed. I also like the idea of being able to pay to add on certain areas, at least after the one year trial period. Nearly anyway you look at it, it will help the economy, theme and growth of EU. But lets wait until we see what CE2 brings. Maybe this has already been thought out and planned.

 

[Dreamdancer]

Time to grab the reins here... this one's getting out of control!

I'm not talking about building houses like those that dot the Corinthian shore line, nor even the more modest homes around Argus or... well, anywhere there are currently houses.

I'm talking about little shanties - small cabins, not elaborate chateaus.

Correct. What you propose might actually be doable.

To all the others: FORGET the notion of crafted housing. MA created the houses to get PED into the economy... I'd say about 40% of all EU housing is in the hands of speculants. MA CANNOT piss these people off, as they have significant PED tied up in the game, their leaving would send the economy into chaos.

MA did everything to make EU a heaven for resellers and relisters, for people who put ridiculous amounts of money into an online game. This is already starting to bite them in the backside hard.

The others, those that do not put significant RL money in the game, are, in MA's eyes, only gambling addicts, not worthy of storyline or gameplay whatsoever, only sitting in front of the screen clicking, sweating and salivating, waiting for the flashes. At least they behave like they view their main customer base like this.

I believe MA needs to wake up on some of the realities of running a MMO. What scares me most is, I feel they might not even WANT to run a MMO more often than not lately.

Regards,
DD

 

[Ozi]

To all the others: FORGET the notion of crafted housing. MA created the houses to get PED into the economy... I'd say about 40% of all EU housing is in the hands of speculants. MA CANNOT piss these people off, as they have significant PED tied up in the game, their leaving would send the economy into chaos.


Regards,
DD

I do not agree with your absolute conclusion here. Crafted housing would certainly boost the economy of EU and it suits MA for everyone to dump their cash into bricks and mortar because it will then be forever tied up in the now permanent building (unless they work out a way for demolishions). Hence MA would have alot more cash to use in cash investment accounts.

So long as the cost for crafting a small house exceeds 1000 peds there is no problem with introducing crafted housing.

 

[Indigo Wyrd]

I don't think these shanties should become craft-able at any time.

Now I don't oppose the notion that, after a year's time being awarded a "deed" for the territory that shanty has occupied.

I also like the idea of crafted, expandable houses, that are actual houses.

Implementation would actually be a very simple matter, perhaps 3-4 dozen lines of code for shanties.

Crafted homes - this would be a bigger undertaking, but not beyond the scope of what either Gamebryo or CryEngine2 are capable of by a long shot.

Crafted homes: (look, I bolded this for a reason)

They begin as a lowly blueprint, but these are bit different than the rest of the blueprints out there... yes, they have a list of ingredients, but that's about where the similarities end.

You collect the housing blueprints like you would any other - and place them into their own Book - but... again, similarities end there.

The Housing Book isn't socketed when opened. Instead it's a grid.
On that grid you arrange your housing blueprints, positioning rooms, stairs, and so on, until you've fit all the pieces together and you're happy with it.

Then you click the "Materials" button, and you get your list of materials, like you would with any other blueprint.

So, let's say your custom house consists of:

1 Generic Entry
2 Medium Rooms
2 Medium Bedrooms
1 Large Trophy Hall
6 Generic Connecting Halls
8 Standard Windows
5 Standard Doors
1 Entry Door

You might get a cost list like:

50,000 Standard Bricks
12,000 (pickatree) boards (hey, these already exist!)
12 Standard Hinges (hey, these already exist!)
16 Glass Planes

Requires area of: Some-Size x Some-Size x Some-Size to Build.

Now if you've the land space to place this, you take your materials, your completed blueprint, and head on over to your location. Once you've reached your location, you "activate" the print, by dropping a construction terminal to begin the construction of your house.

The Construction Terminal is basically a placeholder item, as it may not be possible to carry all the materials required for construction at one time.

This would work much like dropping and arranging items already works - you see a "phantom" version of your house, and you manipulate it into position.
Once placed, construction begins - your materials are spent, and when complete, your little plot of ground sprouts an Estate Terminal in place of the construction terminal, and you're awarded a standard Estate Deed to with as you please.
Congratulations.

Once completed, you then have the chance to spend your next fortune on texturing and coloring your walls, and floors, and all that fun stuff, to make your house complete.

 

[Dreamdancer]

Crafted homes: (look, I bolded this for a reason)

They begin as a lowly blueprint, but these are bit different than the rest of the blueprints out there... yes, they have a list of ingredients, but that's about where the similarities end.

You collect the housing blueprints like you would any other - and place them into their own Book - but... again, similarities end there.

The Housing Book isn't socketed when opened. Instead it's a grid.
On that grid you arrange your housing blueprints, positioning rooms, stairs, and so on, until you've fit all the pieces together and you're happy with it.

Then you click the "Materials" button, and you get your list of materials, like you would with any other blueprint.

So, let's say your custom house consists of:

1 Generic Entry
2 Medium Rooms
2 Medium Bedrooms
1 Large Trophy Hall
6 Generic Connecting Halls
8 Standard Windows
5 Standard Doors
1 Entry Door

You might get a cost list like:

50,000 Standard Bricks
12,000 (pickatree) boards (hey, these already exist!)
12 Standard Hinges (hey, these already exist!)
16 Glass Planes

Requires area of: Some-Size x Some-Size x Some-Size to Build.

This sounds nice, so far, but let me expand on this. We are talking about MA/EU here:

• You will need someone who has an Omegaton Cement Mixer Truck (costs shoot up to the price of hangars 1 week after they are introduced because certain participants -- miraculously -- deposited obscene amounts of money 1 week before they appeared on auction)
• There is a cement cartel, and mixing one batch of mortar costs 300% of the expenses. Cement mixers who are not in the cartel get their garages blocked by the cartel mixer's alts
• You will have to supply the cement, only minable in PVP4
• The cement mixer's drum is (L), and only drops from Eomon because of it's size
• Chikara Power shovels are bugged and actually dig holes 25m to the west-southwest of where they are standing
• The silica market is manipulated. Glass is actually so expensive, people who can't afford it put gem mosaics in their windows
• Houses decay real fast. Like, more than apartment rent would cost. UNLESS they were built with the help of an Avatar that has reached the rank of Great Grand Master in the Homesteading skill. As only building houses increases this skill, Buzz Lightyear is the new noobie must-see as hes rapidly building and demolishing houses whilst skilling just NE of PA. He is awarded a Guiness Record for the biggest amount of money burnt in an online game within 24 hours.
• Houses are bugged in a way that their item points can not be used. The problem is known and has been forwarded to the design team for further investigation. A year ago. In a sealed, boobytrapped attaché case. Marco lost the combination lock number in internal communication.
• Many things about the introduction of crafted housing were very fishy, with people seemingly magically doing exactly the right investments to ensure market domination. The admins of anothER forum are happy about the increased traffic until they find out that all the conspiracy theory threads are written by Kn*ckles, F*licity, BMW and their alts singlehandedly.

I could go on. Hope you get my meaning (it is supposed to be funny), and sorry for not being able to resist.

Regards,
DD

 

[NightwolfAA2k5]

This would be nice... But I'd rather IRL housing

- Nightwolf

 

[LivingGod]

Brillant

To refer to the main post... we are meant to be colonizing... lets do so...

Especially with the new engine coming this idea should be added as well...

Lets see how it goes.

Dave

 

[Indigo Wyrd]

[...]
I could go on. Hope you get my meaning (it is supposed to be funny), and sorry for not being able to resist.

Regards,
DD

Ahh humor, laced with bitterness - like a good glass of absinthe, never quite sure how to take it, but once it's down, it's too late =)

And while it may very well be that certain individuals are catered to due to their exuberant deposits, it would be utter foolishness to keep such a narrow market. I've considered making some rather sizable deposits of my own, but with the lack of worthwhile properties, and even bigger lack of worthwhile items, I'm holding off doing so.

With such limited appeal, it would be exceptionally difficult to tailor the model I have in mind to the audience I'd like to target, and it's quite obvious those established persons have no interest in this audience either - which is good, because they're ignoring a huge source of revenue - both virtual and actual.

It takes less than basic math skills to realize that 1000 sales of 10 PED each is worth more than a single sale of 5000 PED. ;-)

But we've digressed considerably - and as the above post states so plainly - we're supposed to be colonizing.